The Stalker is Teshin and here's why - A theory with many a possible spoiler. Read at your own risk.

[ObviousLee]

6 hours ago, Kialandi said:

 

There is part two of my thinking!

rewatch both war within trailers. you'll see that they aren't the same room.

7 hours ago, BabyKurama said:

Ye i think it went in the pool, wouldn't surprise me if that is a reservoir like In Second Dreams

same as above, rewatch both trailers. not the same room.

19 hours ago, arch111 said:

A few things.

I applaude the finding and summary of Lore,  the ghosts in second Dream especially. 

Then I must point out a few things. Margulis was not connected to the crewman project. If she was an Archimedian,  that allso made her not Orokin. Wich I find strange for Ballas to take as a lover/partner. 

She died for protecting the Zariman returnees, not the Crewmen Project.

The Zariman vanished into the Fold. Not the Void. This seems long ago, before the Starfish, before the Crewmen. 

Zariman was "The ship that never came back" not one of 100 that vanished.

As one of many failures for The Plan, the colonists were recalled.

Years later, Margulis discovered them around the time of Rhino Prime Codex. She brought them from stasis and was wounded and blinded. But she still defended them, seing a way to survive.

The Timeline ia very hard to see there.

I still do not believe Teshin to be the enemy. I believe what we see in the trailer is a small part and that it all revolves around the Conjunction event and the fact the Queens view the Tennos arrival as the "Answer to a Prayer".

From what the devs have said, we will learn what warframes really are. That might change everything. 

But the Stalker and Teshin feels like two characters rather than one. I say this mostly because Lotus speaks of the Stalker like she knows who that is.

 

on page 7 i have a link posted to the entire second dream quest with all the transmissions in it. it's very definitive in relation to margulas and her work. it's an easy connection to make that someone who worked with the kids and wanted to help them, gets sentenced to death, and the next screen shows someone walking into that scene. dots are all there.

18 hours ago, VisionAndVoice said:

So, the fact that thse two events occured rougly in the same time period means that they are all the same? Tell me, is Crimean War actually a stage in the Meiji restoration? Both happened in the XIXth century, they must be the same event by your logic.

 

Because nothing connects it to the theory you're presenting here.

 

Oh please. You misinterpreted it so gratuitiously that there should be a medal for that. There's pretty much nothing but your personal bias here.

 

 

You present your statement, when presented with the flaws with your thesis you reply with the facts that are irrelevant to counterarguments or just repeat the original statement without even adressing the counter points. You make no sense, you literally don't register anything that does not agree with your pet idea. Your presentation is discursive, your grasp of facts is fuzzy, there can be no talk of any sort of "accuracy" at all.

 

I'm done with this, it's like talking to a brick wall.

you really are a caustic monster when you want to be, aren't you? have you yourself, done any research at all. Have you ever been employed in an occupation that requires critical thinking skills to be used in an instant when need be? have you ever worked in a field similar to the ones described within the story off this game? 

 

meaning, have you been a soldier, or a congressional leader, you know, someone of large scale importance that needs to make rapidfire decisions?

If you're unable to see a connection between the person who cares most for the children researching a way to help them, designing the margulis implant for crying out loud, getting sentenced to death for apostasy, and then someone walking into the room, knowing that they're seeing the greatest biological researcher in the entirety of the orokin empire be vaporized, which lead to Margulis' work being stolen after she was murdered, which lead to the warframe program. 

 

if you cannot see the connection there, then there really isn't any hope for you, as you're demonstrating your lack of ability to grasp what is presented before you.

[BornWithTeeth]

20 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

are you inquiring as to why he stopped going wayne brady on your operator and dropped you like a sack of potatoes?

I'm willing to bet it had something to do with the warframe, a living, semi-sentient being, moving of it's own accord and surprising not only the stalker, but also hunhow who thought them only lifeless mechanical dolls

remember the hacked transmission that was decoded? about the carrier signal being hacked and a possible tracer detected? so it rebooted the somatic link, which is most likely nearly instant, but causes your perception to flicker. so it's not the lights that are flickering, but most likely it's the somatic link recycling. either way, it was a very very small tightknit clue that lead myself as well as a few others to the conclusion that the operator and the warframe were indeed seperate, and communicated control via a control wave of some sort, which turned out to be the somatic link.(I was a UAV operator in the army and worked with albeit extraordinarily primitive in comparison, but very similar tech to the actual transference theory of input command, thing goes and does the thing where you want it to and how you want it to do it with equipment that acts as a signal relay and processor. Essentially all the equipment I used in the army is inside the orbiter chair. so, that piece of information eas extremely important in it's reveal that once decoded it confirmed what the tenno were, almost a month before TSD was released. Steve said that the original idea for U19 as a bulk release back when he mentioned the second quest they were working on, he said that their goal was to do what TSD did for warframe, but they wanted it to have a bigger impact. All the information i presented, isi relevant  in that it is not my theory so much as it's my observation of everything the game has to offer. you said it yourself, the idea is to make the stalker scary in his moveset, and yet the acolytes who have the same helmet, varying warframes but with a similar power structure to the stalker are out being hooligans. 

 

I strongly suggest you re-watch both trailers. the reason being is that the center architecture in the first trailer, has 4 massive ribbed pylon'esque cables atop a rounded pedestal in a large cavernous room with a deep sloping floor. the room the operator discovers in the second trailer, is a flat floored surface with no massive ribbed pylons and no domed tower with royalty standing on it, but instead is a pool identical to the one the tenno discovers on lua in TSD, which is a longstanding quest chain with increasingly levels of wat as you progress in the quest chain ending with the inaros quest which adds another viewpoint outside the orokin civilization. 

Again, the nyx is expecting the interior she stumbles into to be grineer tech, and yet what she finds looks identical to a dojo. it's likely  that the twin queens are housed in a Dojo, along with Teshin and the Stalker warframe.

As for why he didn't just hop into the stalker frame from the get? because that kind of reveals that he's the stalker in the trailer at point blank, which ruins the surprise(if i'm even remotely correct) for the update. so of course they aren't going to show him doing that. He may very well wind up doing so. alternately, time. It takes about 20 seconds for the void chair to make it's way from it's hidden position under the pool and be ready to receive or deliver it's operator. 20 seconds, lorewise within the warframe universe, is an eternity to be fighting a Tenno, as demonstrated by the in game lore, and our ability to destroy entire ships of enemies by ourselves. the only other faction in the game lore wise that can contend with warframes for speed and agility are the infestation, the hyena pack, and zanuka. this is discounting the nonsensical buggy elevated jump that occurs in say void towers, as thats not a story element as it's horrid pathing.

 

The thing is, that still doesn't account for several rather gaping holes in your theory.

1. The whole thing about Guardians being lesser Void powered soldiers, with broader but much weaker powers? It's great headcanon....but it is headcanon. There is precisely no reason to think it's true other than "I think it would be a good story". The term 'Guardian' is not used anywhere else in Warframe to denote a rank, title, or class. At all. You really are basing that entire huge section of your post on about five words from the Stalker Codex, and on Stalker's game mechanics. That's it. That is the sum total of the evidence which you have for the assertion that 'Guardians' were, as an entire class, functionally a weaker kind of Tenno/Warframe.
            You also argue that a form of proof for this idea is that Stalker mostly attacks weaker Warframes. That's not actually how Stalker works, it's basically an urban legend based on confirmation bias among players. Players can more easily fight him off when they have their fully ranked 'frames, and are more likely to die when they get attacked while leveling weak equipment. Thus, players remember themselves getting beaten by the Stalker more often while they're using lower equipment. Players share these anecdotes and decide that Stalker must therefore prioritise attacking weak targets. Regardless of whether you choose to believe this, a solid fact is that since 18.5, Stalker will not attack a Warframe lower than rank 10.

2. If you wish to insist that Stalker's game mechanics must be treated as lore clues, then that also kind of destroys a later point in your theory: Shadow Stalker is worse at fighting Tenno than old Stalker. He really is. He gained Sentient-style damage resistance at the cost of literally everything else which ever made him dangerous. Once you know how to move and how to kite him, you can be confident of beating him far, far more often than he will ever beat you. That means that if Stalker went to Hunhow looking for a way to get better at fighting Tenno, then Hunhow screwed him over big time, in an almost hilariously terrible fashion. The thing is, I don't think that is a truly helpful way of looking at it either, though, because....

 

3. A big part of your entire theory rests on part 1 and part 2, that Stalker is a Guardian who is weaker than Tenno and can't fight them head on, so he went to Hunhow to use Sentient technology to become stronger. Like I said, I have excellent reasons for thinking that parts 1 and 2 are not true, and I don't agree with part 3 either.
                See, you describe the Stalker going to Hunhow because he can't defeat Warframes. Stalker walks into the meeting literally holding a Loki Warframe's head and presents it to Hunhow. You say that this is proof that Stalker is weak, because a Loki Warframe is easier prey when its abilities are turned off, i.e. Stalker went for an easier target. The thing is, that's a remarkably different statement from your initial point, that Stalker mostly attacks low level 'frames. At some point, your argument switches from 'Stalker attacks low-leveled 'frames because he's weak' (which is not actually a game mechanic, it's just a player urban legend, and is especially not true since 18.5) to 'Stalker attacks squishy caster 'frames because he's weak', which is also not a game mechanic.
          In either case, the issue of whether or not Stalker can kill Warframes is not what actually gets discussed at that meeting, at all. What actually gets discussed is how to find and kill the Operators. Hunhow makes it clear that Stalker can kill all the Warframes he wants (and again, Stalker literally walked in holding a Warframe's head) but that killing Warframes won't kill Tenno. That's all.
              Hunhow doesn't give the Stalker the War sword because Stalker sucks at fighting Warframes, Hunhow gives him the sword because he's made the sword as an avatar for himself, to be carried by the Stalker into the mission.

 

4. The entire point of Second Dream was not “The Stalker sucks at fighting Tenno, so he has sought out dangerous upgrades from Hunhow.” The point of Second Dream was that it doesn't matter how many Warframes Stalker kills, he'll never get to the Tenno through them, so he has to get Hunhow's help to go around them and attack the Reservoir directly.
         That plot makes perfect sense. What does not make perfect sense is what happens at the Reservoir, which is what I was referring to. (I didn't mean the scene aboard the Orbiter. I meant the initial moment of awakening at the Reservoir itself.) The Operator is vulnerable, only just coming back to full consciousness, the Stalker is standing about a dozen feet away, with War unsheathed. It would have taken about a second for Stalker to just swing the bloody thing and kill the Operator. Instead, the Stalker sheathes War, and does that gesture. 
          What gesture? He stares at his hands, turning them over, moving his fingers. The Operator is doing this at the same time, each of them apparently quite suddenly aware of where they are and what they are doing. Where else is this from? It's from the Rhino Prime Codex, the very first recorded instance of a Tenno assuming somatic control of a warbeast. It's the symbol for “Transference is taking effect”. The Stalker goes into a Transference fugue at the sight of the Operator. That right there? Like I said, it's that moment which is the single most crucial clue to who the hell the Stalker is, even if we don't know where exactly it points yet. The whole point of that scene was to reveal the true nature of the Operator, and as a sort of sub-point, begin laying the groundwork for 'The Stalker is more like you than he wants to realise.'
 
 That whole bit just completely stops making sense if you assume that the Stalker is Teshin and that he really did come there to use his fancy upgrades to kill the Operator. Teshin has no reason to go into a Transference fugue unless a part of your theory is that Teshin is unconsciously tele-operating the Stalker, and that his conscious mind doesn't know it. Is that a part of your theory?

 

 

These are pretty valid reasons to doubt your theory, man. Your whole idea is speculation which is based on earlier speculation, using headcanon rather than lore evidence to fill the gaps.

[NeithanDiniem]

21 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

so you see no association between the High Archimedian being executed by being turned into a mist, as stated in the entry the greatest mind in bioresearch essentially went up in smoke the person presenting the sentient terraformer in the crewman entry is presenting the Sentients in base form.. Margulis, who worked closely with the children that were suffering from the influence of the void, being an Archimedian of a high enough standing to have the influence to plead for the lives of the children and actually succeed. Ballas, an important figure in the Orokin empire as they are scholars, no? Margulis was an Achimedian, who started the research for the crewman project, which was to put their minds into bodies that could withstand their power, as dictated by the lotus herself which lead to her eventual death sentence, and then the beginning of the crewmen lore, at all, in anyway whatsoever. you see nothing?

There is a fatal flaw in the idea that margulis was the archimedian that was executed for the crewman project. That execution took place before the creatures that would become the Sentients were sent to Tau to build the Rail, and the Rail is necessary for the void fold to happen for travel there. Traveling there by conventional means likely took decades if not centuries unless somehow Random void jumping is a thing. It is impossible that the one killed in that entry was the same person as the one that created transference. Transference was only created after the attempted jump to Tau was made, so the rail had to already be completed, which means the creatures that became the Sentients were already there, which only happened after that person was executed.

Again, this hinges on the idea that random jumps are not possible and thus require rails. New players cant jump to planets they haven't unlocked yet naturally, which requires them to link the secret solar rail junctions that the Tenno use. If for some reason random jumps ARE possible then yes, it is possible that the attempted jump to Tau was a random jump that went wrong, and the rail was made afterwards.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

 

The thing is, that still doesn't account for several rather gaping holes in your theory.

1. The whole thing about Guardians being lesser Void powered soldiers, with broader but much weaker powers? It's great headcanon....but it is headcanon. There is precisely no reason to think it's true other than "I think it would be a good story". The term 'Guardian' is not used anywhere else in Warframe to denote a rank, title, or class. At all. You really are basing that entire huge section of your post on about five words from the Stalker Codex, and on Stalker's game mechanics. That's it. That is the sum total of the evidence which you have for the assertion that 'Guardians' were, as an entire class, functionally a weaker kind of Tenno/Warframe.
            You also argue that a form of proof for this idea is that Stalker mostly attacks weaker Warframes. That's not actually how Stalker works, it's basically an urban legend based on confirmation bias among players. Players can more easily fight him off when they have their fully ranked 'frames, and are more likely to die when they get attacked while leveling weak equipment. Thus, players remember themselves getting beaten by the Stalker more often while they're using lower equipment. Players share these anecdotes and decide that Stalker must therefore prioritise attacking weak targets. Regardless of whether you choose to believe this, a solid fact is that since 18.5, Stalker will not attack a Warframe lower than rank 10.

2. If you wish to insist that Stalker's game mechanics must be treated as lore clues, then that also kind of destroys a later point in your theory: Shadow Stalker is worse at fighting Tenno than old Stalker. He really is. He gained Sentient-style damage resistance at the cost of literally everything else which ever made him dangerous. Once you know how to move and how to kite him, you can be confident of beating him far, far more often than he will ever beat you. That means that if Stalker went to Hunhow looking for a way to get better at fighting Tenno, then Hunhow screwed him over big time, in an almost hilariously terrible fashion. The thing is, I don't think that is a truly helpful way of looking at it either, though, because....

 

3. A big part of your entire theory rests on part 1 and part 2, that Stalker is a Guardian who is weaker than Tenno and can't fight them head on, so he went to Hunhow to use Sentient technology to become stronger. Like I said, I have excellent reasons for thinking that parts 1 and 2 are not true, and I don't agree with part 3 either.
                See, you describe the Stalker going to Hunhow because he can't defeat Warframes. Stalker walks into the meeting literally holding a Loki Warframe's head and presents it to Hunhow. You say that this is proof that Stalker is weak, because a Loki Warframe is easier prey when its abilities are turned off, i.e. Stalker went for an easier target. The thing is, that's a remarkably different statement from your initial point, that Stalker mostly attacks low level 'frames. At some point, your argument switches from 'Stalker attacks low-leveled 'frames because he's weak' (which is not actually a game mechanic, it's just a player urban legend, and is especially not true since 18.5) to 'Stalker attacks squishy caster 'frames because he's weak', which is also not a game mechanic.
          In either case, the issue of whether or not Stalker can kill Warframes is not what actually gets discussed at that meeting, at all. What actually gets discussed is how to find and kill the Operators. Hunhow makes it clear that Stalker can kill all the Warframes he wants (and again, Stalker literally walked in holding a Warframe's head) but that killing Warframes won't kill Tenno. That's all.
              Hunhow doesn't give the Stalker the War sword because Stalker sucks at fighting Warframes, Hunhow gives him the sword because he's made the sword as an avatar for himself, to be carried by the Stalker into the mission.

 

4. The entire point of Second Dream was not “The Stalker sucks at fighting Tenno, so he has sought out dangerous upgrades from Hunhow.” The point of Second Dream was that it doesn't matter how many Warframes Stalker kills, he'll never get to the Tenno through them, so he has to get Hunhow's help to go around them and attack the Reservoir directly.
         That plot makes perfect sense. What does not make perfect sense is what happens at the Reservoir, which is what I was referring to. (I didn't mean the scene aboard the Orbiter. I meant the initial moment of awakening at the Reservoir itself.) The Operator is vulnerable, only just coming back to full consciousness, the Stalker is standing about a dozen feet away, with War unsheathed. It would have taken about a second for Stalker to just swing the bloody thing and kill the Operator. Instead, the Stalker sheathes War, and does that gesture. 
          What gesture? He stares at his hands, turning them over, moving his fingers. The Operator is doing this at the same time, each of them apparently quite suddenly aware of where they are and what they are doing. Where else is this from? It's from the Rhino Prime Codex, the very first recorded instance of a Tenno assuming somatic control of a warbeast. It's the symbol for “Transference is taking effect”. The Stalker goes into a Transference fugue at the sight of the Operator. That right there? Like I said, it's that moment which is the single most crucial clue to who the hell the Stalker is, even if we don't know where exactly it points yet. The whole point of that scene was to reveal the true nature of the Operator, and as a sort of sub-point, begin laying the groundwork for 'The Stalker is more like you than he wants to realise.'
 
 That whole bit just completely stops making sense if you assume that the Stalker is Teshin and that he really did come there to use his fancy upgrades to kill the Operator. Teshin has no reason to go into a Transference fugue unless a part of your theory is that Teshin is unconsciously tele-operating the Stalker, and that his conscious mind doesn't know it. Is that a part of your theory?

 

 

These are pretty valid reasons to doubt your theory, man. Your whole idea is speculation which is based on earlier speculation, using headcanon rather than lore evidence to fill the gaps.

One way to speculate on  lesser guardians is to consider that they are Tenno who could not perform transference.  

The result was an actual living, aging Tenno inside a modified suit that was vulnerable to dying on the front lines. (Jet fighter pilot vs UAV pilot).

Hence, these guardians were "low" and sent into guardianship roles for Orokin VIPs away from front line combat zones.

Stalker has had centuries to adapt to Warframe powers.

I like the idea of Teshin having a split personality and not even knowing he is the Stalker.  Stalker certainly seems to be in an altered state while talking.

But if I were to Champion any theory, it is that we are the Stalker with reasons given in my first post.

Edited July 31, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[NeithanDiniem]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

But if I were to Champion any theory, it is that we are the Stalker.

... So how did we try and kill ourselves again when we had no way of controlling him when we are already controlling a Warframe...?

This has zero logic behind it.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

19 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

... So how did we try and kill ourselves again when we had no way of controlling him when we are already controlling a Warframe...?

This has zero logic behind it.

Go read the synopsis behind forbidden planet before blowing it up with a crass "zero logic" statement.

My speculation has definite weight behind it.

Of course I could be wrong.  But the title is "War Within" and there is the possibility that Stalker is your shadow.

Go study the psychology behind "ID"  (Freud) and "Collective Unconscious" (Jung)

It makes perfect sense that the negative emotions and energies from endless war and servitude could have found their way into a Warframe and given it conscious life and the ability to grow stronger as we slept.

I would expect nothing less in terms of emotional fallout from children participating in endless slaughter and topping it off with mass genocide.

Edited July 31, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[ObviousLee]

38 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

There is a fatal flaw in the idea that margulis was the archimedian that was executed for the crewman project. That execution took place before the creatures that would become the Sentients were sent to Tau to build the Rail, and the Rail is necessary for the void fold to happen for travel there. Traveling there by conventional means likely took decades if not centuries unless somehow Random void jumping is a thing. It is impossible that the one killed in that entry was the same person as the one that created transference. Transference was only created after the attempted jump to Tau was made, so the rail had to already be completed, which means the creatures that became the Sentients were already there, which only happened after that person was executed.

Again, this hinges on the idea that random jumps are not possible and thus require rails. New players cant jump to planets they haven't unlocked yet naturally, which requires them to link the secret solar rail junctions that the Tenno use. If for some reason random jumps ARE possible then yes, it is possible that the attempted jump to Tau was a random jump that went wrong, and the rail was made afterwards.

no, no no you're right. i hadn't considered that. otherwise it's a paradox. thanks for that bit on info. also, read the update at the bottom with the lancer entry and tell me it doesn't seem stalker identity crisis to you?

[NeithanDiniem]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Go read the synopsis behind forbidden planet before blowing it up with a crass "zero logic" statement.

My speculation has definite weight behind it.

Go study the psychology behind "ID"  (Freud) and "Collective Unconscious" (Jung)

It makes perfect sense that the negative emotions and energies from endless war and servitude could have found their way into a Warframe and given it conscious life and the ability to grow stronger as we slept.

I would expect nothing less in terms of emotional fallout from children participating in endless slaughter and topping it off with mass genocide.

If by weight you mean a few micrograms. We the players have absolutely nothing to do with stalker's identity. And if stalker was a part of that war with the Sentients, he would have been one of the ones honored with silks instead of being one among the crowed. So he was not a part of that "endless war" you mentioned.

And mass genocide? They killed the political leaders and military commanders which, coupled with the infestation outbreak, Grineer uprising, and Corpus economic takeover, weakened and eventually destroyed the Orokin empire. They killed the empire, not the entire race. Plenty of Orokin elites still live, the Grineer Queens being two of them. Hardly something that will traumatically affect the minds of individuals that work as assassins, mercenaries, and soldiers. If anything would make them break, killing the beings that killed their mother figure, controlled them to the point of slavery, and planned to do away with them wouldn't be it.

[NinjaTrainee117]

Very nice theory, I really like your points about how Teshin was present when Hunhow popped up and your interpretation of his Conclave quotes.

But what if...

Spoiler

Teshin had an evil twin?

 

[BornWithTeeth]

8 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

, read the update at the bottom with the lancer entry and tell me it doesn't seem stalker identity crisis to you?

Uh. No, it really doesn't. The Lancer Imprint is about the Orokin deciding to weaponise the Grineer. That Synthesis Imprint is from the point of view of a Grineer slave who managed to defeat....something, and whose genetic imprint was harvested for the first batch of Grineer soldiers.

 

I'm really not sure where you're getting 'Stalker identity crisis' from it. Could you perhaps cite a specific statement from the Imprint?

[NeithanDiniem]

2 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

no, no no you're right. i hadn't considered that. otherwise it's a paradox. thanks for that bit on info. also, read the update at the bottom with the lancer entry and tell me it doesn't seem stalker identity crisis to you?

Unfortunately for me, I think the first post has gotten too long for the forums for some people. The text falls out of the bottom of the post and goes behind text boxes below it. Only half of what is posted there is legible. I think some of your post may need to be put into spoiler/expandable boxes to fix it, that or some formatting issue has occurred that messes up on Firefox browsers.

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

Unfortunately for me, I think the first post has gotten too long for the forums for some people. The text falls out of the bottom of the post and goes behind text boxes below it. Only half of what is posted there is legible. I think some of your post may need to be put into spoiler/expandable boxes to fix it, that or some formatting issue has occurred that messes up on Firefox browsers.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Lancer

[ObviousLee]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

Uh. No, it really doesn't. The Lancer Imprint is about the Orokin deciding to weaponise the Grineer. That Synthesis Imprint is from the point of view of a Grineer slave who managed to defeat....something, and whose genetic imprint was harvested for the first batch of Grineer soldiers.

 

I'm really not sure where you're getting 'Stalker identity crisis' from it. Could you perhaps cite a specific statement from the Imprint?

um, the booming whisper in the mind of the grineer, the things the voice was saying, and how it says them the same way the stalker does?

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, ObviousLee said:

um, the booming whisper in the mind of the grineer, the things the voice was saying, and how it says them the same way the stalker does?

Still no, not really. The Grineer describes a figure with bright lights, running through the miners and killing them. The voice means something, but I doubt it means Stalker. Also, the Imprint takes place before the slaughter at the Terminus. Those are Orokin scientists, selecting strains of Grineer for use in the War.

[NeithanDiniem]

2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Uh. No, it really doesn't. The Lancer Imprint is about the Orokin deciding to weaponise the Grineer. That Synthesis Imprint is from the point of view of a Grineer slave who managed to defeat....something, and whose genetic imprint was harvested for the first batch of Grineer soldiers.

 

I'm really not sure where you're getting 'Stalker identity crisis' from it. Could you perhaps cite a specific statement from the Imprint?

If anything it is the strange message that whatever it is says. I can see how it can be interpreted as that, but I don't think it fits personally. There is too much missing.

2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Still no, not really. The Grineer describes a figure with bright lights, running through the miners and killing them. The voice means something, but I doubt it means Stalker. Also, the Imprint takes place before the slaughter at the Terminus. Those are Orokin scientists, selecting strains of Grineer for use in the War.

The slaughter at the terminus was only to kill the governmental leaders, not every single individual Orokin.

Edited July 31, 2016 by NeithanDiniem

[ObviousLee]

4 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Still no, not really. The Grineer describes a figure with bright lights, running through the miners and killing them. The voice means something, but I doubt it means Stalker. Also, the Imprint takes place before the slaughter at the Terminus. Those are Orokin scientists, selecting strains of Grineer for use in the War.

warframes don't emit lights? since when?

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

 

The slaughter at the terminus was only to kill the governmental leaders, not every single individual Orokin.

Yes.....but the slaughter at the Terminus was followed by the solar system's infrastructure going into lockdown. The order went like this:

Step 1: Orokin engineer literally all of the big system spanning stuff, the rails, the command ships, everything, to be accessible only to individuals with the correct engineered gene-keys.

Step 2: Orokin create Sentients, Grineer, and Tenno, and release the Infestation.

Step 3: War, militarisation of Tenno and Grineer against Sentients.

Step 4: Tenno wipe out the Orokin command and the system responds by going into lockdown because suddenly 99% of the people who can access the Solar Rail and capital ship command decks are dead. The Grineer go into rebellion and wipe out damned near everyone else.

 

 

The Lancer Imprint almost certainly takes place well before the Terminus attack. The Imprint features Orokin scientists discussing the potential first use of militarised Grineer, and after the Terminus slaughter and lockdown, the Grineer rebellion was ready. The most simple explanation is that the Imprint takes place years earlier and serves to explain how and why the Orokin militarised their Grineer slaves.

 

The Synthesis Imprints tell the story of how the Fall happened.

The Cephalon Fragments tell the story of Ordan Karris and tell us more about the Orokin highest caste and cephalon construction.

The Kuria tell the story of the Twin Queens.

 

Just now, ObviousLee said:

warframes don't emit lights? since when?

The Stalker. Bright lights.

 

Besides which, the Grineer has no problem identifying things as other Grineer, vibro-shovels, machinery, machine guns, etc. He simply describes the light as the 'light' and the 'thing'. If what he meant was the black figure in armour, he could have said so. That really doesn't suggest to me that he saw the Stalker, certainly not as the Stalker appears in the game.

 

I really think you're reaching a bit.

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Yes.....but the slaughter at the Terminus was followed by the solar system's infrastructure going into lockdown. The order went like this:

Step 1: Orokin engineer literally all of the big system spanning stuff, the rails, the command ships, everything, to be accessible only to individuals with the correct engineered gene-keys.

Step 2: Orokin create Sentients, Grineer, and Tenno, and release the Infestation.

Step 3: War, militarisation of Tenno and Grineer against Sentients.

Step 4: Tenno wipe out the Orokin command and the system responds by going into lockdown because suddenly 99% of the people who can access the Solar Rail and capital ship command decks are dead. The Grineer go into rebellion and wipe out damned near everyone else.

 

 

The Lancer Imprint almost certainly takes place well before the Terminus attack. The Imprint features Orokin scientists discussing the potential first use of militarised Grineer, and after the Terminus slaughter and lockdown, the Grineer rebellion was ready. The most simple explanation is that the Imprint takes place years earlier and serves to explain how and why the Orokin militarised their Grineer slaves.

 

The Synthesis Imprints tell the story of how the Fall happened.

The Cephalon Fragments tell the story of Ordan Karris and tell us more about the Orokin highest caste and cephalon construction.

The Kuria tell the story of the Twin Queens.

 

The Stalker. Bright lights.

 

Besides which, the Grineer has no problem identifying things as other Grineer, vibro-shovels, machinery, machine guns, etc. He simply describes the light as the 'light' and the 'thing'. If what he meant was the black figure in armour, he could have said so. That really doesn't suggest to me that he saw the Stalker, certainly not as the Stalker appears in the game.

 

I really think you're reaching a bit.

ok, lemme correct you on your order of how things went down/ the grineer were mining slaves presently in use before the creation of the tenno. The creation of void empowered children was an accident, which occurred during the Zeriman incident, of which we were guests aboard. the sentient program, began long before the tenno program. the infestation was created in response to the sentients, who were created by the orokin archimidian that was in the crewman project lore. the infestation failed and the war began then. there were no warrior grineer present during the sentient wars. it was dax soldiers and tenno. The grineer warrior program was never fully implimented due to the collapse of the empire.

so it goes grineer exist empire dying crewman project canceled dsentient project greenlit then sent to tau to terraform and build solar rails then zeriman sent to jump to tau but failed, sentients return war begins and orokin are losing zeriman returns void kids nabbed up infestation let loose upon the sentients it backfires margulis is killed her research stolen warframe program begins and wins the war we kill orokin leadership grineer slaves start uprising corpus sieze financial holdings and the orokin die and somewhere in the end there the infestation is cleansed.

as far as reaching? all warframes have light diodes acattered across their bodies, which could be optics or just pretties, either way it matters not as stalker uses an excalibur warframe which has ligh emitting diodes on it. that isn't reaching, it's noticing evidence that exists, and making a connection.

whether the connection is solid or falls flat though, is the thing we're all waiting to discover.

 

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, ObviousLee said:

ok, lemme correct you on your order of how things went down/ the grineer were mining slaves presently in use before the creation of the tenno. The creation of void empowered children was an accident, which occurred during the Zeriman incident, of which we were guests aboard. the sentient program, began long before the tenno program. the infestation was created in response to the sentients, who were created by the orokin archimidian that was in the crewman project lore. the infestation failed and the war began then. there were no warrior grineer present during the sentient wars. it was dax soldiers and tenno. The grineer warrior program was never fully implimented due to the collapse of the empire.

so it goes grineer exist empire dying crewman project canceled dsentient project greenlit then sent to tau to terraform and build solar rails then zeriman sent to jump to tau but failed, sentients return war begins and orokin are losing zeriman returns void kids nabbed up infestation let loose upon the sentients it backfires margulis is killed her research stolen warframe program begins and wins the war we kill orokin leadership grineer slaves start uprising corpus sieze financial holdings and the orokin die and somewhere in the end there the infestation is cleansed.

as far as reaching? all warframes have light diodes acattered across their bodies, which could be optics or just pretties, either way it matters not as stalker uses an excalibur warframe which has ligh emitting diodes on it. that isn't reaching, it's noticing evidence that exists, and making a connection.

whether the connection is solid or falls flat though, is the thing we're all waiting to discover.

 

Dude....that is 100% your headcanon, with no actual evidence for it other than "I like to think it happened in this order".

 

 

The others were right, I'm done arguing with you.

[ObviousLee]

6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Dude....that is 100% your headcanon, with no actual evidence for it other than "I like to think it happened in this order".

 

 

The others were right, I'm done arguing with you.

read the game lore and do a timeline analysis on cause and effect one event to another. just like i said to pookie, your inability to grasp the information presented by the game does not mean the information is invalidated.

[NeithanDiniem]

2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Dude....that is 100% your headcanon, with no actual evidence for it other than "I like to think it happened in this order".

Hate to say this, but what makes your headcanon any more valid?

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

Hate to say this, but what makes your headcanon any more valid?

The fact that I'm not instantly locking everything down and insisting that it has to be one specific way?

I left my timeline vague, noting that some things logically have to happen before others. The Grineer have to be researched and considered as potential soldiers before they can be upgraded and given martial preparation. ObviousLee responds by giving a hard and specific timeline, insisting that it all happened exactly the way he says, despite the lack of real evidence for it one way or another. He's basically done the same thing the entire thread.

 

I'll wander through again after War Within.

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

The fact that I'm not instantly locking everything down and insisting that it has to be one specific way?

I left my timeline vague, noting that some things logically have to happen before others. The Grineer have to be researched and considered as potential soldiers before they can be upgraded and given martial preparation. ObviousLee responds by giving a hard and specific timeline, insisting that it all happened exactly the way he says, despite the lack of real evidence for it one way or another. He's basically done the same thing the entire thread.

 

I'll wander through again after War Within.

Deep within this millennia old Orokin-turned Infested ship lurks a creature created to fight in the Old War.  <---lephantis wiki page.

what is lephantis. infested. what was lephantis created to do. fight in the old war. what is the old war. the war between the orokin and the sentients.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[NeithanDiniem]

2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

The fact that I'm not instantly locking everything down and insisting that it has to be one specific way?

I left my timeline vague, noting that some things logically have to happen before others. The Grineer have to be researched and considered as potential soldiers before they can be upgraded and given martial preparation. ObviousLee responds by giving a hard and specific timeline, insisting that it all happened exactly the way he says, despite the lack of real evidence for it one way or another. He's basically done the same thing the entire thread.

 

I'll wander through again after War Within.

No, they provided a possible method and then is arguing to support it. I myself have found flaws in Lee's commentary in this forum topic and pointed out flaws that are impossible to ignore. Lee corrected their stance and restructured their argument. Not folding at the first sign of a differing opinion is not Lee saying it is that way and no other way, it is Lee supporting their theory. That is how basic arguments for or against theories go down...

Come up with definitive evidence that says the theory is flawed and then correction will be needed, otherwise it is up to the people to use logic to deduce which is most likely the correct answer.

We know the Grineer were militarized sometime before the infestation attack in the Orokin System due to the Arid Evicerator's synth entry. When they happened compared to the end of the war with the Sentients isn't known. It is most probably that that instance happened after the events in the Lancer synth entry due to the conversations in the Lancer entry hinting that the Grineer as soldiers was a new idea. That is about all we know for a definitive timeline. However, the events in the Evicerator's entry happened after some form of a fall from grace for the Orokin Empire, whether or not that is a fall caused by the war against the Sentients going badly, the war against the Infested outbreak, or the attack of the Tenno is unknown.

EDIT:

We do know that the Tenno's attack that made them be known as the betrayers was not a single swoop that wiped out all possible military leaders or members of power in the Empire. That is proven in the Corrupted Ancient entry when an elite commands a group of Dax soldiers and they specifically mention the Tenno as the betrayers. So it is just as likely for an Orokin to come and militarize a Grineer soldier for their own purposes after the fall of the Empire as it is for them to have militarized the Grineer beforehand. Remember that the Grineer Queens are Orokin Elites, they could just as easily be the ones that make the soldiers after the fall of the empire, and thus after the war with the Sentients as any.

Edited July 31, 2016 by NeithanDiniem

[ObviousLee]

30 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Yes.....but the slaughter at the Terminus was followed by the solar system's infrastructure going into lockdown. The order went like this:

Step 1: Orokin engineer literally all of the big system spanning stuff, the rails, the command ships, everything, to be accessible only to individuals with the correct engineered gene-keys.

Step 2: Orokin create Sentients, Grineer, and Tenno, and release the Infestation.

Step 3: War, militarisation of Tenno and Grineer against Sentients.

Step 4: Tenno wipe out the Orokin command and the system responds by going into lockdown because suddenly 99% of the people who can access the Solar Rail and capital ship command decks are dead. The Grineer go into rebellion and wipe out damned near everyone else.

 

 

The Lancer Imprint almost certainly takes place well before the Terminus attack. The Imprint features Orokin scientists discussing the potential first use of militarised Grineer, and after the Terminus slaughter and lockdown, the Grineer rebellion was ready. The most simple explanation is that the Imprint takes place years earlier and serves to explain how and why the Orokin militarised their Grineer slaves.

 

The Synthesis Imprints tell the story of how the Fall happened.

The Cephalon Fragments tell the story of Ordan Karris and tell us more about the Orokin highest caste and cephalon construction.

The Kuria tell the story of the Twin Queens.

 

The Stalker. Bright lights.

 

Besides which, the Grineer has no problem identifying things as other Grineer, vibro-shovels, machinery, machine guns, etc. He simply describes the light as the 'light' and the 'thing'. If what he meant was the black figure in armour, he could have said so. That really doesn't suggest to me that he saw the Stalker, certainly not as the Stalker appears in the game.

 

I really think you're reaching a bit.

bold underlined section is your timeline. there's nothing vague about it. nothing to hint a maybe or a what if or uncertainty. exactly as mine, you're putting things in the order you feel they bong in. the problem, is the game says otherwise. cause, and effect. half the reason my posts are so large is because there is a lot of information that most people don't comprehend. be that from poor analytical skills, reading comprehension failures, level of skill in sifting between relevant information and irrelevant information, or whatever the reason may be.

remember, this is a theory and things that don't make sense in it, i take the correction as is with no issues. 

source: neithan correcting me about an issue regarding margulis being the executed party in the beginning of the crewman lore and why it didn't stack up. 

did i argue with him? no, i admitted immediately that he was correct, because the point he made was both logical and informed. it wasn't what has mostly amounted to "i don't get it so you're wrong". 

several people have seen what i've presented, and it's made sense to them. I've edited and updated the OP several times to incorporate information that is present within the thread itself, but not addressed in the OP. meaning that if it's been talked about in depth here in the thread, and isn't on the OP, it goes on the OP at the bottom.

some people understand, some people don't/ that's bound to happen. my issue spawns from the mentality of "i don't see the connection so you're wrong" which is the mentally weak operate. 

I don't get it so you're wrong - don't work in the real world.

I don't get it, can you please help me understand what your viewpoint on this is in it's entirety? - works in the real world.

I don't understand, nor agree so you're wrong - does not work in the real world.

I don't understand, nor agree, so i'll do some research and form my own thoughts to compare - how science is done.