DAMAGE 3.0

[Urlan]

In the devstream that talked about damage 3.0 and multishot rebalances, DE Steve said that if mandatory mods were removed, they would be reimbursed and then added "Like with Legendary Cores". Its still up in the air as to what is going to happen but that was the statement. On the topic, the Devs never said that damage with leveling was going to happen but was something that was being considered. One of the things was the acolyte mods, re-balancing similar to conclave and archwing, and just weakening the mandatory mods as was the suggestion of making the Multishot mods into glorified attack speed mods. It was suggested that such changes could come with or be followed by enemy and weapon re-balancing but I think the last thing said on the subject was DE Scott mentioning that he was still looking at it, but that 'the situation was more complicated than originally thought' and that he needed to work more on it.

Personally, I would think that the enemy scaling would have to be addressed first and then the mandatory mods re-evaluated with enemies and players pulling from a similar growth potential and mod pool.

[Crawd127]

15 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

remove crit chance and add "headshots are crits"

Wouldn't change much, I always aim the head, unless it's low missions, and I've get most of my kills headshots. I can't see how this would reduce the cheese much.

15 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

remove energy and add cooldowns.

This is almost impossible to implement because too many stuffs are based around energy. It would remove soo much to the game, not only mods, but some warframe abilities (toggle abilities) and basic game mechanics(Melee Channeling for example) are base around energy. Adding cooldown would mean that some warframe would get nerfed to the ground, for example, I can't see Vauban having cooldown instead of an energy pool. That just don't work without a huge overhaul, which is dangerous to do.

24 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

Or even "change the game aspect from hordes to a less powerful enemies gameplay"

How is this gonna change the cheese? It wouldn't do anything about min/maxing or cheesy tactic (which are nearly game exploit).

In the end, I'll stick with my comments, I can't see how DE can fully remove the cheese, because the game is build around min/maxing. Corrupted mods are basically asking the player to do min/maxing. Also, I honestly don't care about min/maxing in a PVE game. If it was a PVP, I would probably agree, but that's not the case. I can't see why it's a big deal. If it was a single player game, nobody would talk about "balancing".

Sometime, it's things like that that people think it should be changed. The day comes where the change is there and they say: "It's not fun anymore, bring back the old system!" A little like the relic system. Which is something that people were tired to run Void Endless missions, they changed it in a way to remove the Void Exhaustion and, while I like both ways, there's bad things about both. The current one will be Relic Farming Exhaustion, because with that many relics, getting the one you need is harder and they are used way faster than Void Keys were. Sure, that's another topic, but the point is would it really be better to do all these changes you propose? I don't think so.

[Madway7]

47 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

and add cooldowns.

Didn't abilities used to have cooldowns when the game was introduced?

Edited August 2, 2016 by Madway7

[Gurbak]

23 minutes ago, Vyra said:

its still lame all the work again... the wiki changing and outdated info due to massive changes ...
then ALL THE WORK and time getting those mods and leveling them AND the credits i used...


if  we get compensated i hope i get my 40 million credits back...i dont care about the cores if the mods are removed i just need my money back..money is the hardest part to get ( besides ivara chassis and ash prime systems)

I want all my credits and cores back. Not even kidding, I spent way to many hours busting my &#! for them to just *poof*. But that's a worry for when it actually happens, right now they need to fix archwing, credits and void fissures cuz it's just not working very well

[(PSN)CrispyNipill]

elemental & ips mods will be removed too

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

At this point I'd rather have damage 3.0 and an enemy armor scaling rework rather than our next cinematic quest.

Balancing game systems before pushing lore forward needs to be at the top of the WIP.

But I'd bet more frame balancing will come before either damage 3.0 or enemy armor scaling are addressed, so it's a moot point.

Edited August 2, 2016 by (PS4)Magician_NG

[Valiant]

I'd love them to rework how a bit of how status works (like bypassing your shields and doing mega damage...). Should be coupled with enemy scaling (which was on DE's table but seems to have been forgotten about).

A more interesting armour system would be nice too.

[-Sandman]

2 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

If anything, we will get them compensated. Like, a leg. core for a maxed mod or just turned into fusion cores for the appropriate amount of levels.

Gosh I hope this doesn't turn out to be one of those "We said we MAY do this, we never said we WILL do this" kinda things. I want my cores back (let alone the huge sums of plat people pay for maxed primed mods as well). I am not too confident that we will get back any credits, which kinda sucks because of the current global financial collapse in the credit market. 

Edited August 2, 2016 by -Sandman

[PapaFragolino]

Just the mere fact that they added Primed Power Creep Pressure Point makes me think that we'll have to wait another couple of years before seeing a damage rework.

[Trichouette]

10 minutes ago, PapaFragolino said:

Just the mere fact that they added Primed Power Creep Pressure Point makes me think that we'll have to wait another couple of years before seeing a damage rework.

But as already said, it was a troll move from another dev. It wasn't planned.

So it means nothing...

 

[-Sandman]

7 minutes ago, PapaFragolino said:

Just the mere fact that they added Primed Power Creep Pressure Point makes me think that we'll have to wait another couple of years before seeing a damage rework.

Good one. Yeah we have been hearing about damage 3.0 since before damage 2.0. 

Jokes aside, with the usual amount of bugginess (pretty sure that's not a word) that we see with rushed updates, I would rather wait for them to iron out this one properly before releasing. Nothing will kill the game more for me than a broken damage/scaling system designed to replace a damage/scaling system.

[S0V3REiGN]

10 minutes ago, PapaFragolino said:

Just the mere fact that they added Primed Power Creep Pressure Point makes me think that we'll have to wait another couple of years before seeing a damage rework.

That mod wasn't supposed to be released. Sheldon sort of took it upon himself to release it and Scott was not remotely amused by his stunt.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

23 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

But as already said, it was a troll move from another dev. It wasn't planned.

So it means nothing...

 

Well...I wouldn't say "nothing", at least that troll move acknowledges the existence of primed charge chamber and primed streamline.

Along with the other yet-to-be-released primed mods that were tease-leaked via a codex "mistake" this time last year.

Although we may never see them in-game ever at least we know they're coded in and ready to go whenever Sheldon feels like it.

 

 

 

[JohnKable]

we just know its something happening soon or later.

But its something big, involving enemy rebalance too. The system we have now is good but its too well know that as it is now we have too little room for "utility" mods. (and alot of unused utility mods)
Firs step is enemy rebalance, if we wont need best dps then we can think using some utility mods.
Second weapons should have built-in serration (point blank, hornet and pressure) scaled with weapon level. But it cant be only that or this will leave a free elemental mod slot for crit weapons increasing powercreep between crit and non-crit weapons.

Probably to promote build diversity we should have something like built-in serration, 6 mod slot plus 2 forced "exilus" slots for utility mods only.

and yeh i know the i used the word "forced" that will bring a wave of dislike, but this will be the only way to actually promote diverisy and the usage of utility instead of a spam of crit/element mods (we all know we have other elemental mods other than just the 90%ones). But hey its will be good to me as long as the first step - rebalancing enemies- will be a thing

Edited August 2, 2016 by JohnKable

[Berserkerkitten]

I think the main problem with damage 3.0 (or the current lack thereof) is how it sounds nice in theory, but wouldn't actually work in practice. By removing damage and multishot mods, they want to free up mod slots, which are usually required for "mandatory" mods, right? Correct me if I misunderstood something, but I believe that was the basic idea behind damage 3.0.

Well, that's all great and everything, but I think it would only result in other mods becoming mandatory. If damage and multishot scales with weapon rank and is no longer applied via mods, then certain crit, elemental, fire rate or ammo/reload mods would automatically become mandatory, simply because there are no real alternatives. There are only so many different types of mods that make sense and that anyone would put on their gun. Remove some of the "mandatory" ones and the next most powerful ones would automatically become mandatory, fixing nothing at all. Which isn't necessarily a problem, it just makes the whole thing a bit pointless and doesn't really offer any greater flexibility.

[Trichouette]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

Well...I wouldn't say "nothing", at least that troll move acknowledges the existence of primed charge chamber and primed streamline.

Along with the other yet-to-be-released primed mods that were tease-leaked via a codex "mistake" this time last year.

Although we may never see them in-game ever at least we know they're coded in and ready to go whenever Sheldon feels like it.

 

 

 

primed streamline would mess everything up... And well there is already primed chamber so whatever...

[Sziklamester]

There is no info about a dmg 3.0 but I am not agree with their remobal because then They should remove the essential warfeame mods the stat mods and the ability boost mods because these are pretty much the same must have mods. With this power They could remove completely the mod System because all mods can be essential if one fall. So They need to remake a skill tree System without mods and Just with passives.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

8 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

primed streamline would mess everything up... And well there is already primed chamber so whatever...

I never really understood the argument for not bringing primed streamline, primed intensify, and primed stretch into the game.  Everything already dies in one-shot on the star map.  So what's the difference between things dying in one shot now and things dying in one shot after p streamline, p intensify, and p stretch?  It's all broken regardless how you slice it.

[Schregger]

4 hours ago, Matt89Connor said:

Hello everyone, I would like to ask for information, or rather two, I hope this is the right topic:
- When the DE are going to release "damage 3.0"? They have already spoken?
- I read an info where talking about removing the "essential" mods , so  this essential mods are:HORNET STRIKE, serration, PRESSURE POINT, Right?
-the Mod giving multishot will also affect the weapon's magazine?
And what else they intend to change?
sorry if I make a lot of questions but i wanted to learn more because I find it very interesting, and i see this info 1 week ago.

Damage 3.0 might be an incorrect label for it. Damage 3.0 is meant to address 4 points: 

1. Warframes
2. Weapons
3. Mods
4. Enemy Scaling

The actual intention, from what I understand, is not really to change up the mechanics of dealing damage, but to instead break the current meta and make it so more Warframes and weapons are usable in higher level content. Would you use the Stradivar for a sortie 3 mission? If you answer yes, I find that funny, If no, than there is your answer, Damage 3.0 is meant to make it so taking a weapon like the stradivar into Sorties isnt an exercise in futility.

[Trichouette]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

I never really understood the argument for not bringing primed streamline, primed intensify, and primed stretch into the game.  Everything already dies in one-shot on the star map.  So what's the difference between things dying in one shot now and things dying in one shot after p streamline, p intensify, and p stretch?  It's all broken regardless how you slice it.

True, but you can already achieve max efficiency pretty easily, adding primed streamline would mean that one mod could give up to 50% efficiency without any drawback.

For stretch and intensify I kinda agree (even if we can already achieve 315% strength so... whatever) but efficiency is something different.

[IceColdHawk]

15 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

could give up to 50% efficiency

55%*

I might want to add though, it won't come completely without drawbacks. For efficiency builds, we usually use FE and streamline. I use FE Rank 3 + streamline for 70% efficiency. With primed streamline i would probably not play FE to make up a mod slot at the cost of 15 - 20% efficiency. Just wanted to mention it.

Carry on.

Edited August 2, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[Trichouette]

8 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

55%*

That's not sure, look at primed pressure point, it gives less than it should, it could be the same for streamline and that's why I said "up to".

By using it you probably don't use fleeting expertise so you have a bit less efficiency but a free slot for something else, it's a lot for the 20% efficiency

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

Personally I'm not sure damage 3.0 will ever be a thing or if it's even needed now.

they have recently released the acolytes mods and I expect more mods to follow in that vein, allowing customisation to playstyle.

Also with the relic system all but negating the need for drawn out endless missions, the enemy scaling is now irrelevant. The highest level you need to worry about is sorties  and most weapons are viable there with enough forma. Powercreep is neglible when everything can oneshot, you can't halfshot something, so old weapons don't become obsolete, new weapons would be more powerful on paper only for the majority, only the min-maxers who push things for fun rather than necessity would get the benefit of extra damage.

[crafturtoemc]

DE: Removing these mods and adding more fusion cores into the system? Hell no!

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

this will finally help us develoep our weapon builds more imo

removing the base damage allows us that 1 mod slot many of my builds just seem to need to make the most of them