What do you think about the changes in SOTR?

[Kai_Shiba]

5 minutes ago, cghawk said:

because it seems only logical, games very rarely succeed or even get popular without steam,I don't know of any people who randomly go to google and search for games, they use steam to search for new games, I also know allot of people who won't even buy or play games unless they're on steam.

Still doesn't answer what I have stated though.

[cghawk]

Just now, KJRenz said:

Still doesn't answer what I have stated though.

cept I just told you it's logical to assume so

[Kai_Shiba]

10 minutes ago, cghawk said:

cept I just told you it's logical to assume so

But it's not logical to assume something to be a fact without proof.

If anyone can provide the entire PC active playerbase/population, then they may. Using the Steam charts is still not a valid source on the playerbase.

Edited August 4, 2016 by KJRenz

[Tzolkat]

The relic grind is not very interesting. Neither was key grinding. I usually get most of my keys/relics from syndicate standing and it's unlikely that will change.

I haven't bothered to sell any parts since the ducat changes. I haven't bothered to buy anything from Baro, either. I started to once, but couldn't afford it for a different reason and lost interest.

Quanta and other underpowered weapons did not need a nerf. They should have had their damage buffed in proportion to the amount of damage lost by whatever 'fix' was applied to explosive AoE.

Credit reward amounts did not need a nerf. I don't have massive amounts of credits to start with, so it just makes the game feel less friendly.

Syndicate mission titles are still broken, last time I checked. I have a screenshot somewhere of erroneous mission descriptions which appeared after the hotfix that should have fixed it. As for whether they were nerfed, in a way they kind of were. Does anyone know if it had the intended effect of being able to find squads more easily?

Nullifier buff is on a completely different level of messed up. People were calling for nerfs/removal of them, and DE just.. makes them more powerful? I guess we were having too much fun.

[cghawk]

11 minutes ago, KJRenz said:

But it's not logical to assume something to be a fact without proof.

If anyone can provide the entire PC active playerbase/population, then they may. Using the Steam charts is still not a valid source on the playerbase.

I know, which is why I said it's logical to assume considering the prevalence of steam

Edited August 4, 2016 by cghawk

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

1 hour ago, KJRenz said:

"Majority"

Can you prove that? If not, my point is still valid.

Can you actually show me the playerbase that doesn't have steam?

Is there another way? Just curious because......

isn't the steam chart frequently used on this forum to show how well the game is doing? I have seen many doom threads ridiculed by showing the figures on some chart, if that is the steam chart, then we'll, barometers swing both ways.

[Kaotyke]

KJRenz is right, I took a look at a big game of Steam: Planetside 2

http://steamcharts.com/app/218230

It has 2k players peak in the last 24 hours.

Warframe had 29k: http://steamcharts.com/app/230410

Both those games you can get with or without Steam.

I would have compared to CS:GO but.... hory rell, 504k peak.... I dont think it has an equal.

2 minutes ago, cghawk said:

I know, which is why I said it's logical to assume considering the prevalence of steam

Assumpitions dont have much weight, I fear. People want facts and statistics. Specially if something has more than 1 source of intel.

[Kaotyke]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)obsidiancurse said:

Is there another way? Just curious because......

isn't the steam chart frequently used on this forum to show how well the game is doing? I have seen many doom threads ridiculed by showing the figures on some chart, if that is the steam chart, then we'll, barometers swing both ways.

Because they forget Steam is just for some players, we dont know if its the majory or not. Look at you, on a Console, can WE get how many PS4/XB1 players play using Steam?

In their last interview, DE said that Warframe has 26 million accounts made, how many of those are being used? Only they know.

[cghawk]

Just now, Venom-Snake said:

KJRenz is right, I took a look at a big game of Steam: Planetside 2

http://steamcharts.com/app/218230

It has 2k players peak in the last 24 hours.

Warframe had 29k: http://steamcharts.com/app/230410

Both those games you can get with or without Steam.

I would have compared to CS:GO but.... hory rell, 504k peak.... I dont think it has an equal.

Assumpitions dont have much weight, I fear. People want facts and statistics. Specially if something has more than 1 source of intel.

well the thing is that in this day and age it is extremely difficult to have your game be popular and profitable when not on steam because so many people use steam therefore if a game IS succesfull when available both on steam and without steam there's a big chance steam is why.

[Kaotyke]

Just now, cghawk said:

well the thing is that in this day and age it is extremely difficult to have your game be popular and profitable when not on steam because so many people use steam therefore if a game IS succesfull when available both on steam and without steam there's a big chance steam is why.

No, the game is succesfull if its good. I wont play something like "There's poop in my soup" just because its on Steam. And there's also PS4 and XB1 to consider, which Steam does not do so.

If something is bad, people will stop playing it. Doesnt matter if the publisher is Steam or Lord Gaben himself.

[Cool3303]

1 hour ago, KJRenz said:

Can we please stop using the steamcharts as a valid source for the playerbase of Warframe on PC? PLEASE?

I agree that steam does not represent the "total number of players" but it very much reflects changes to the population since it has the broadest customer spectrum.

WFs playerbase consists of 3 groups 1.People that saw it on Steams frontpage 2.People that read game magazines and find Warframe 3.People that get Warframe recommended.

Since 2 and 3 overlap with Steam  and since there are bonusses to use it with steam (tennogen) it is safe to assume that Steam has the broadest customer spectrum and is very much representative of the Customer distribution.

 

Can we get back on topic please though?

[cghawk]

11 minutes ago, Venom-Snake said:

No, the game is succesfull if its good. I wont play something like "There's poop in my soup" just because its on Steam. And there's also PS4 and XB1 to consider, which Steam does not do so.

If something is bad, people will stop playing it. Doesnt matter if the publisher is Steam or Lord Gaben himself.

while true a game is much easier to discover if it's on steam, I don't know of anyone who just randomly looks for games on google, the chance for success is much bigger on steam due to discoverability and ease of acces

[DrBorris]

3 hours ago, DxAdder said:

You forgot the removal of Draco to encourage more sales of affinity boosters.

Thanks for the good lol, nice to see the tinfoil hats are still being used.

3 hours ago, DxAdder said:

I think the biggest problem there is right now for Veteran /Hardcore players is the utter lack of anything to do between updates now.

Is there any less than before the update? "End-game" content seems the same to me.

3 hours ago, DxAdder said:

Before you could do endless void missions or go 6 forma a weapon/frame in Draco but both of these have been removed.

You know that it isn't that hard to rank a weapon, right?

3 hours ago, DxAdder said:

Overall I think your going to see these types of players game time go down to almost nothing between content patches.

Unfortunately I think you are right, DE left Draco in the game for so long that people forgot what it was like to actually rank a weapon up. Now that ranking weapons requires effort again, people will leave because they see this as an unjustified nerf

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

11 minutes ago, Venom-Snake said:

Because they forget Steam is just for some players, we dont know if its the majory or not. Look at you, on a Console, can WE get how many PS4/XB1 players play using Steam?

In their last interview, DE said that Warframe has 26 million accounts made, how many of those are being used? Only they know.

As far as I am aware (not that I've looked into it deeply mind) neither Sony nor MS publish a list of what's played on their respective networks, even though I'm certain they have the data.

I was genuinely curious, seeing as I have seen charts showing warframes popularity many times on this forum. If that is the steam chart I now know that both sides are using it for confirmation bias and will dismiss its relevance when it doesn't suit their agenda, thank you.

[Askell91]

For me 80% of the update was a HUGE letdown (Godzilla sized). Almost only logged on for daily after like 2 week. Feels bad :'(

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, cghawk said:

cept I just told you it's logical to assume so

...But it isn't.

Steam definitely brings lesser known games to larger potential audiences, but it's not the general arbiter of fates that it frequently gets made out to be.

Online gaming/news publications do just as much work  in that respect and the bulk of them direct you to the game company's site directly.

I went years (literally) before ever linking my warframe account to my steam account.

Likewise, the rise and fall on that steam trend thingy says nothing for PS4/Xbox/ PC not linked through steam players.

Tennogen and Steam exclusives may have increased the number of linked accounts, but that doesn't mean it's snapshot is necessarily accurate or even a good litmus of the game's performance.

Most of the highest grossing and most successful online games in the business never used Steam at all.

 

  As to the rest of the complaints in this thread...

SoTR did some things people liked and some things people didn't.

- The old Void farming style encouraged a meta (even though this one worked in their favor). DE likes to break them...It got broken.

- The launcher nerf was actually a bug that got fixed... It wasn't unexpected.

- I don't like the way the Ducat situation is being handled, but I have never liked the way they have chosen to handle it.... So that's not a new condition.

Were they genuinely interested in reducing the Ducats being horded they would:

• Keep a Void trader representative up at all times with a sundry of regular items both Mod and cosmetic
• Add a selection of really unique stuff for a limited time Bi-Weekly....Grow the selection each week of those really rare things each week for 6 months and then vault them for a 6 months in the same order.
• Make Ducats a currency that is able to be used to augment relics or outright purchase items your luck isn't giving you...Which, incidentally, is what we had originally asked for them to do in the first place.  

  - I really haven't noticed a credit nerf, but I don't typically count credits in this game nowadays. While I'm not rich, I am rarely ever broke.

 

All in all, SoTR was a change of the status quo and those are rarely met with general approval.

[HexxyTheGrouch]

SoTRail killed my enthusiasm to play this game. I occasionally run the launcher, log in, and claim platinum coupons from daily log ins that I will never use. I haven't actually run a mission since about 5 days or so after the update dropped.

This leads into the steam discussion.

The assumption is when you run the game through Steam you are playing it. However, even if I just run the launcher and don't log in, I will be counted as playing the game. Therefore this can create a margin of error of how many actual active players there are. I'm willing to bet it's a small error margin, but I know that I can't be the only one who occasionally runs the game to patch it up to current and just dumps out of the program.

DE got their money out of me. It is yet another game where buying into it has resulted in significant disappointment in the longer run. I've gotten to where the next "cool game" will be hard pressed to get me to open my wallet for them. 

[Arniox]

9 hours ago, cghawk said:

they didn't remove it though, you can still play endless void missions if you so desire, you just don't get prime parts anymore.

They removed the incentive. Not the missions. There's no incentive to play them anymore other than argon, leveling, or relics. Other than that, nothing of worth

[(PSN)robotwars7]

1. already come to terms with the idea of relics. It is what it is, and I'm sure if I hate it, I'll be saying so on here.

2. if Baro's inventory continues to be repetitive the Ducat changes won't bother me, but it's easy to say that when sitting on over 1000 Ducats, as I haven't bought from Baro for 2 visits now. my opinion on this is subject to change, and again, I'm not gonna promise to stay quiet on it.

3. this one is BS. if it were just for the Tonkor and Synoid Simulor, fine, but the Penta and Ogris are already hardly used as it is, now players won't even want them for MR fodder. good job DE, and the worst part is it's apparently a stealth nerf, so they didn't even tell us. really not scoring any brownie points here. just saying. if this were changed to just nerf those two, it would be fine.

4. this one definitely won't affect me as I've kept over 10 million Credits since 6 months ago. but it sucks for newer players who need those Credits for their first Blueprints. major blow to the new playerbase right there. Credits should never be nerfed, since they can be spent as quickly as they are gained.

5. not appreciating this either, what wit syndicate Melees being on the way.  just another increase in grind to turn off players. starting to think DE need to look up the word "reduction" in the dictionary, because this is the total opposite of a "Reduction in Grind"

and yes, I'm going to throw that in DE's face every time they make changes like this. don't just say you're going to do something, actually DO IT! STICK TO YOUR WORD! /rant.

 

[Zerathos_Dagon]

The only thing that could be considered OK from what you listed of the SotR is the relic grind. In a way the grind has been reduced a bit in the void department: we no longer have to sit through tons of 20-minute/wave survivals and defenses every time we want a prime part. We still have to do that for keys, but we had to do that in the previous void too, so no change there. In addition, there are now 4 chances to get something if you have a full squad, and you can even increase the drop chances of rare items by spending (admittedly grind-y) resources to upgrade the key. Also, return of the Forma's. Only thing I don't like is how the rift missions spawn randomly like alerts and the fact that they feel too short and less impactful as a whole in my opinion.

The rest is just horribly bad. As if to compensate for the 'lost grind' from the void rework, they secretly nerf credit rewards and syndicate missions to keep the people grindin'. And I didn't even know about the stealth nerf to explosive damage. I'll admit though, I can understand fixing auto-headshotting with explosives since that is kinda silly, but at least make up for that large amount of lost damage by buffing explosive things a bit.

[NativeKiller]

OXIUM!

 

I just need about 2k more but woe to newer players or those who haven't farmed for it pre-SoTR.

 

 

[Misgenesis]

Overreactions as per usual.

Relic system is a step in the right direction, individual relics need to be easier to get. Theyre the same as old void basically.

Ducat system is changing whenever. Ive got about 2000 because they havent brought anything i want.

Explosives 'nerf' is negligible.

The credit reward nerf should have come with a credit drop buff.

And finally, nerfing syndicate rewards is just????

[Lichcontract]

Well the credit + ducat nerfs have #*($%%@ me royally (200 ducats and 400k credits coming from 1200 ducats and way to reliably get credits if Baro brought stuff I wanted) but then again I never really grinded them nor do I plan to. Back in the day I used to never dip below 10 mill credits but ever since syndicates came (y'all know I just had to max out every one of them) I just can't get above 700k to save my life and now with these credit nerfs it doesn't look like I'll be able to buy much of Baro's stuff or even afford any new compound weapons.

[DesoPL]

On 4.08.2016 at 3:53 PM, Irorone said:

"Mindless hours" of t3 could net you over a hundred rewards for a small handful of keys if you pushed em hard enough.

Relics have at most arguably better rng (there are screenshots of four forma print rolls), get consumed multiple times as fast, and depending on what mission the rifts open up in end up being either a minigame or the reason you don't push further because you can only bring one relic to a mission that can go on for hours.

 

I got once situation when four formas are droped in one mission, but is still better than old void seriously. For example, i spended only one day farming Fraggor Prime in void fissures, while in void i could spend week.

[Irorone]

10 hours ago, DesoPL said:

 

I got once situation when four formas are droped in one mission, but is still better than old void seriously. For example, i spended only one day farming Fraggor Prime in void fissures, while in void i could spend week.

It is better in some ways admittedly but is also undeniably worse in others which is the big reason for a lot of the "void 2.0" gripes.  Another is that a lot of the actual issues with old void only got slightly tweaked.  We may have four chances at an item but if you're looking for one specific item on an entire tier of relics you have to have four people running the same relic to actually have four chances at it which also undermines the pub nature of void 2.0. 

The only gripes I had with old void was the really low drop chances on new primes (which is unavoidable otherwise prime access packs would be nothing more than limited accessory packs), finding parties to run keys in (the recruiting system was ripe for "free ride" abuse), and finally getting the keys that I needed (an extremely minor problem since you just have to cruise the wiki for a bit of info, something you still have to do btw if you're looking for what relics drop where).

Edited August 7, 2016 by Irorone