The War Within: Now a Tetralogy!

[Chipputer]

On 9/30/2016 at 10:11 PM, Basicology said:

I think I have a proper analogy for this situation and for all of those that say over exaggerating or being negative isnt going to help:

 

I'd rather be the friend that says you look like hell to prevent you from being ignorant and tell you to get your S#&$ together for your sake rather than be the asshat of a friend saying that you look fine and let you skip around oblivious to the fact that you're being judged.

Supporting bad practices in the end is going to make things worse than saying it's not the way to do things.

Not exactly a proper analogy.

First off, someone being judged? Oh no. My world has come crashing down. You don't approve of me. Big deal.
Second off, insensitivity isn't always the answer. Brutal honesty has its time and place. No, it's not always helpful.
Third off, nobody saying that letting DE take their time is the way to go is supporting a bad practice. You perceive it as bad practice. That doesn't make it factually so.

Some of the most celebrated gaming minds have repeatedly stated that they'd rather delay a game than release something unfinished. I guess it's okay if they delay their products since it doesn't affect you, but once it affects your, personal, enjoyment then it's time to call that bad.

The gaming community is fickle-- Warframe's is no different. When TWW hits and it has bugs, people are going to wonder why DE didn't delay it further. We're going to go from melodramatic, "why can't I have my shiny toy now," posts to over the top, "why didn't you put more effort into making my shiny toy," posts. There is no winning. Calling them taking their time and trying to get it right, "bad practice," is nothing more than unhelpful and needlessly negative. Not to mention that it's not the first time they've heard, "just don't set a release date so that way you never actually delay it."

There's another problem with how fickle the community is-- perception is everything.

[Fugana]

Can we get the Ash delux skin at least : \ it was shown more than a month ago 

[Barely_Ironic]

44 minutes ago, Fugana said:

Can we get the Ash delux skin at least : \ it was shown more than a month ago 

A concept for it was shown over a month ago. The Zephyr deluxe skin was shown a lot earlier as well, so expect that first.

[Basicology]

10 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Not exactly a proper analogy.

First off, someone being judged? Oh no. My world has come crashing down. You don't approve of me. Big deal.
Second off, insensitivity isn't always the answer. Brutal honesty has its time and place. No, it's not always helpful.
Third off, nobody saying that letting DE take their time is the way to go is supporting a bad practice. You perceive it as bad practice. That doesn't make it factually so.

Some of the most celebrated gaming minds have repeatedly stated that they'd rather delay a game than release something unfinished. I guess it's okay if they delay their products since it doesn't affect you, but once it affects your, personal, enjoyment then it's time to call that bad.

The gaming community is fickle-- Warframe's is no different. When TWW hits and it has bugs, people are going to wonder why DE didn't delay it further. We're going to go from melodramatic, "why can't I have my shiny toy now," posts to over the top, "why didn't you put more effort into making my shiny toy," posts. There is no winning. Calling them taking their time and trying to get it right, "bad practice," is nothing more than unhelpful and needlessly negative. Not to mention that it's not the first time they've heard, "just don't set a release date so that way you never actually delay it."

There's another problem with how fickle the community is-- perception is everything.

There is a difference between saying "Sorry guys, we can't make it to our release date, here's the next date we might see the release go Live." and "Oops, you noticed it's past the release date too? Maybe next month."

 

And you addressing that there will always be an inconsistent public opinion on anything to do with TWW (or ANY video game updates/their release dates/content) to defend the bad practice of not being straightforward with your community that is just tired of the lack of content/the lack of punctuality that they said there was going to be is like asking why people like different colors. "Bad Practices" have nothing to do with perception, "Bad Practices" are the factor that results in a decent following of unhappy consumers, in which we have here. Don't chalk it up to "perception" or even "opinion", cause that's just utter nonsense. And so is saying that "being negative" isn't a form of criticism. By that reasoning, let's all just clap our hands together and say "We love you DE, keep doing what you're doing, it'll turn out great." and not care about any downsides at all.

 

You talk about the mass "perception" of a large group of a player base as if calling it that waves it off as deplorable. A mass "perception" that players think that Warframe loses it's luster as you put X amount of hours into it and reach a plateau that DE has ignored since the first updates of the game. A mass "perception" that this content was promised far too long ago for them to just accept "We don't know when we'll finish." A mass "perception" of players that are leaving the game due to the lack of content management where players are subject to farm repeatedly until they don't care at all.

 

Perception is everything, and unluckily for someone that has your kind of nonchalant outlook on it, "Perception" is what makes or breaks games and dev companies all together and people don't just side this much to the same "Perception" in reaction to these kind of developing practices that DE is using, regardless if they're purposeful or not, it's still happening.

 

Perception is everything. Yeah. Cause Perception is what get's Warframe's community numbers slashed in half in just over a year. Reply to me if you have an actual rebuttle to me, and not telling me the definition of "Perception".

Edited October 3, 2016 by Basicology

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

5 hours ago, Basicology said:

There is a difference between saying "Sorry guys, we can't make it to our release date, here's the next date we might see the release go Live." and "Oops, you noticed it's past the release date too? Maybe next month."

 

And you addressing that there will always be an inconsistent public opinion on anything to do with TWW (or ANY video game updates/their release dates/content) to defend the bad practice of not being straightforward with your community that is just tired of the lack of content/the lack of punctuality that they said there was going to be is like asking why people like different colors. "Bad Practices" have nothing to do with perception, "Bad Practices" are the factor that results in a decent following of unhappy consumers, in which we have here. Don't chalk it up to "perception" or even "opinion", cause that's just utter nonsense. And so is saying that "being negative" isn't a form of criticism. By that reasoning, let's all just clap our hands together and say "We love you DE, keep doing what you're doing, it'll turn out great." and not care about any downsides at all.

 

You talk about the mass "perception" of a large group of a player base as if calling it that waves it off as deplorable. A mass "perception" that players think that Warframe loses it's luster as you put X amount of hours into it and reach a plateau that DE has ignored since the first updates of the game. A mass "perception" that this content was promised far too long ago for them to just accept "We don't know when we'll finish." A mass "perception" of players that are leaving the game due to the lack of content management where players are subject to farm repeatedly until they don't care at all.

 

Perception is everything, and unluckily for someone that has your kind of nonchalant outlook on it, "Perception" is what makes or breaks games and dev companies all together and people don't just side this much to the same "Perception" in reaction to these kind of developing practices that DE is using, regardless if they're purposeful or not, it's still happening.

 

Perception is everything. Yeah. Cause Perception is what get's Warframe's community numbers slashed in half in just over a year. Reply to me if you have an actual rebuttle to me, and not telling me the definition of "Perception".

My main rebuttal is only that I believe they are loosing people over bad decisions, not delayed updates. I honestly believe that end game getting destroyed for fissures, solar rails being gone over a year, vast amounts of time and resources being spent on conclave and lunaro only for 1% of the community to play them, many of our frames getting mathematically and statistically nerfed while being paraded as good thing, etc, etc, are bigger concerns than how long the war within takes. Do I agree that its taking way too long since the teasers and such? Yes. Do I agree thats what is slashing the playerbase? No. On almost every other aspect I agree with you completely.

they should be honest with themselves that the war within is 19.5, its been the same amount of time since we got 19 as it was between 18 n 18.5.

but most of the people that I know who are leaving or close to leaving, its because of negative impacts of updates (mostly how this relic system destroyed endgame and the market in one fell swoop)

the perception thats started really killing the numbers is something I can best word as, them being seen as incompetent with their own work, where we almost dont want them to touch anything anymore cuz they keep ruining the good things about the game 'cuz everyone used it too much' or some other bs excuse, meanwhile the things like Oberon, the ones that need rework the most, dont get looked at. By the way scott, you want an example of why that passive is stupid? I have a game clip of a sand skate shooting at me from outside of the passives range. Anyway... Ever since nekros, i say all the time that if they rework banshee, I'm out. I think thats where alot of us are at. Quit touching s*** that isn't broken, quit trying to hide nerfs behind spin, quit destroying our favorite game modes without implementing a better or at least adequate replacement, and quit reworking stuff just to make us work more. Just make content, lore, quests, events, etc and quit messing with what isn't broken. There's also the issue of keeping true to what they say. Example, them saying they hear us n know how much the community wants events, doing two events n then forgetting again. And then there's the issue of follow through. If you're going to implement systems, back them up. Where'd the immortal skins go? Why do we only have deluxe skins coming (other than that fact they cost 4x as much)? Why isn't there a consistent rotation of sortie seasons with time spans that aren't messed as hell? Why don't we have any word on solar rail conflicts returning? Why isn't there a real discussion going on fixing endgame? Why are you even bothering to implement new courts for lunaro which no one plays, without making one buildable in the dojo, which is what people constantly ask for more content for? Its like DE has no idea what they are doing right now but they think every dumb idea they have is better than what the community wants, n its gotten real old. N Steve, ill believe you have some vision for the game when you stop spending a year on bs like lunaro n this playerbase destroyer you call the relic system.

summary, its bad decisions that have the community fleeing, not just time between updates. However, they could be producing content quicker If they weren't busy destroying what they already built.

[bowiespoon]

On 10/1/2016 at 3:06 PM, xZetsumeix said:

 

 

 

\[T]/

[Zahnny]

This delay is a bigger joke than British politics. And I'm British before someone gets offended.

[Fugana]

No news from the devs for a long time : \ 
show us someting about the war within

[Barely_Ironic]

47 minutes ago, Fugana said:

No news from the devs for a long time : \ 
show us someting about the war within

A whole 20 minutes too soon XD

[Fugana]

Just now, slamdanked said:

A whole 20 minutes too soon XD

Yes and now im angry, disapointed, uninstaling warframe, with hopes that the update will actually come in 2016 than ill install it again
There is nothing for me i can farm or ... i dont know anymore, im MR20 ok i didnt mastered everything i got it butim playng since closed beta and yea im not into awrchwing at all 
from PC Gamer intervew Steve mentioned a "new solar system" , "multiple choices in TWW" new tiles, from older devsteam orbiter with 10+ rooms? this things alone sounds prety big for me and if they came all along ill have no problem but if its just a 5 minet massege dialogue on your screen whyile you defend cryopod than im gona quit warframe forever. 
 

[Kraygon13]

#salt #cry #warframecommunity #0life #kids

Do something else, and enjoy the update when it will come out. nothing more.

crying ppl, do you only play 1 game at a time ? (and maybe do nothing else in your life ?) that can explain why you're so salty about TWW.

Relax. Take a tea.

[BulletsforTeeth]

37 minutes ago, Kraygon13 said:

#salt #cry #warframecommunity #0life #kids

Do something else, and enjoy the update when it will come out. nothing more.

crying ppl, do you only play 1 game at a time ? (and maybe do nothing else in your life ?) that can explain why you're so salty about TWW.

Relax. Take a tea.

I can understand a certain measure of salt. I mean, TWW has been [DE]layed to a rather staggering extent. At the same time, forumites and keyboard warriors will always dramatize. Or, in some cases such as your fat kid living in a basement or other stereotype, they really are that pissed.

Me, personally... Well, I've lost any sense of hype for this update. That died soon after SotR. At the same time, I'm not all that angry. Maybe a bit disgruntled, but I'm by no means angry. Too many things to do in college and work to get pissy over something like this.

[-CM-Zenshadow]

I think DE's mistake was the build-up of hype for the quest and the date they set for it, which was delayed to early October (hopefully soon then?). And like BulletsforTeeth said above, I think that the hype for most people just died out over the time it was stretched over. And because people aren't exited about upcoming content and there is nothing to keep those with 5-forma builds on their weapons and Warframes busy, people just log in for the daily rewards.

[SpeedOfLightPuncher]

So basically no TWW for the next 3 years 

[abomb787]

Maybe i'll start playing more to get stuff for TWW. Maybe i do more than claim a daily tribute.

 

[Ogarra_Remaellus]

Will spear rifles be released with TWW?

[Curry_in_a_Hurry]

21 hours ago, ZenshadowOfZramx said:

I think DE's mistake was the build-up of hype for the quest and the date they set for it, which was delayed to early October (hopefully soon then?). And like BulletsforTeeth said above, I think that the hype for most people just died out over the time it was stretched over. And because people aren't exited about upcoming content and there is nothing to keep those with 5-forma builds on their weapons and Warframes busy, people just log in for the daily rewards.

They delayed it another month.

[Relentless.Zen]

On 5.8.2016 at 10:40 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Part III: The War Within is being split into 2 parts. Part III: Titania and her quest which will be coming this August on PC, and Part IV:The War Within update with cinematic quest will be released afterwards. 

[-CM-Zenshadow]

1 hour ago, CanNIbAL...15 said:

They delayed it another month.

rip

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

part of me hopes its delayed because they are actually addressing stuff the community is in upheaval about, but judging by the fact that they just slapped the community in the face by nerfing vacuum with the audacity to call it a community driven initiative, I'm gonna guess I shouldn't let that hope get too high.

[Mario458]

i cannot wait until the war within update is coming then we can know how the war began long ago

[KeiYinXI]

There's this guy on Youtube, he's a content creator for Warframe. He's been strongly advising DE against taking opinions and suggestions from the Forums, as their mainly one sided or biased. I'm kind of starting to see what he means. q_q

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

1 minute ago, KeiYinXI said:

There's this guy on Youtube, he's a content creator for Warframe. He's been strongly advising DE against taking opinions and suggestions from the Forums, as their mainly one sided or biased. I'm kind of starting to see what he means. q_q

meanwhile many of the content creators were on the side of this issue that this huge outcry on the forums is. Just saying. Go check the top content creators videos about many of the changes lately, including this, you'll see a bunch of people making the same points you see here. Talk to large amounts of players about the direction of the game away from the forums, still get alot of the same opinions.

[KeiYinXI]

Just now, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

meanwhile many of the content creators were on the side of this issue that this huge outcry on the forums is. Just saying. Go check the top content creators videos about many of the changes lately, including this, you'll see a bunch of people making the same points you see here. Talk to large amounts of players about the direction of the game away from the forums, still get alot of the same opinions.

I know what you mean, I haven't been playing Warframe for long I'd say for about a few months? not exactly continuously as I've popped in and out. I'm not mad at DE's decision of the recent War Within postponing, but as others have stated it would make everything better if they just clearly admitted that they don't know when it'll be released instead of constantly throwing different dates. I'm not saying the players have the right to act so dramatically but they have the right to be annoyed and a bit frustrated at this point. 

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

15 minutes ago, KeiYinXI said:

I know what you mean, I haven't been playing Warframe for long I'd say for about a few months? not exactly continuously as I've popped in and out. I'm not mad at DE's decision of the recent War Within postponing, but as others have stated it would make everything better if they just clearly admitted that they don't know when it'll be released instead of constantly throwing different dates. I'm not saying the players have the right to act so dramatically but they have the right to be annoyed and a bit frustrated at this point. 

well if it was just that it'd be one thing, but its not just TWW, the community in general or at least a decent amount is annoyed and frustrated with this, the vacuum changes that happened, the on and off again nature of them doing events, sorties rotation offerings, raids in general and their rewards, the loss of motivation to do endless matches and void, years of no AI improvements, increasing grind, constant nerfs, constant nullification, immunity and resistances, the rails being gone for over a year, us not getting umbra for way too long, the amount of development time that goes into modes no one plays, the lack of expansion on dojos, theres so many I dont know where to stop. N I'm not saying that everyone's pissed about all of it, not saying all are huge issues, but they add up pretty quick, especially with how many of us have friends that have already quit. So many of us want the game to do well or get better or whatever but DE just keeps doing things that piss off and drive away players, without giving us the things we've been promised or that we've been asking for.

Edited October 6, 2016 by (XB1)ashes of suvius