Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[Wolfnrun]

21 minutes ago, BigBlackCook said:

i feel like that shields of shadows should be a 7% dmg resistance because u ned about 200% power strength to have a 90% reduction..

^^^

[blasron]

this entire rework is a big nerf to the only thing that made necros awsome. His desecrate is SLOWER than a snail to do anything, and his SOTD are just plain bad.
 

The shadow before were running to get to the enemies (sure they hit like wimp but at least they actually hit) now i fell that they are just decorative colorfull being. They dosen't even aggro the rest of the enemies (wich the old version did well, they were running in the face of a enemies for god sake).

 

To add to this ''OPness'' they can stay forever but their health (wich is shyt) now decay. So we have a bunch of colorfull being that do nothing like the old version and end up being worse than it.

[blasron]

i try this abomination and here what i see:

 

Desecrate:

It's slow has S#&$ i can't see it even slower. the time it work for 1 dead enemies i killed 10 other. (yay in a game that speed is a big deal)

It use health/energie with the chance of nothing (yay more nothiness)

It feel like it give even less stuff (Great the main selling point is dead)

only good point it ''save'' finger (can't applie this to me i use a controler)

SOTD:

The A.I play statue they barely move or do anything even with that fix (the old one was better they were running to get enemies)

Health decay (the old one was better duration of 1 min but hey they were doing something)

They suck (no even joking why in hell they can't even shoot straight)

7 shadow (ok i guess it help some ''device'' even if ps4 is not even affect by it)

They don't even aggro the enemies (they old one actually did this because they were always up close and personal with their target)

 

Finally i fell that necros lost 2 good power in his kit. I would go has far has saying that hydroid is now the better choice for loot. Now that i have said that i am pretty sure you will ''rework''... ah screw this you will nerf the living of the the pirate dude.

 

PS: I start to feel that Warframe is becoming another type of chinnesse bull game. I wait U19,to see what then. I am pretty sure you will screw up anyway so i already started to look for another game to play. I have enought of this bull happening since U14

[onezerotwo]

I want to start by saying, overall this rework was important and it's not about appealing just to me but rather to the entire player-base. All-in-all I think this change is positive!

... but I don't like it, I'm disappointed with this change, it doesn't suit me and has so far taken away from me something I very much enjoyed.

I loved cranking out loot! Knowing that my contribution was to sit still and make everyone around me rich was what was truly (I mean this! no sarcasm) fulfilling about playing Nekros! 

Now, though, less loot? That's made me quite sad. I'm also not pleased about how little information we get about the toggle - with the old approach I could watch the clouds form around bodies that I'd desecrated and once the area within eyesight was clear I knew whereabouts the rest might be. With the toggle ability and running all over I never seem to know where the extra loot is generated and as it's generating so much less (really noticeably less) I really want to capitalise on what I am generating. 

I think the community would rather have another functional frame that can fight and run and do ninja things (you know, the point of the game?) and be a viable pet class and all that. My needs are unique to me, and probably rare among the player base at large. 

I just liked being an interesting support providing a unique advantage to the mayonnaise randos I group with 95% of the time. I feel like that uniqueness in support has been diminished by this and that's not something I'm happy about. The new frame that has resulted? Well, for such a small set of changes it really has moved Nekros to a different class. Damnit. I managed to avoid farming Hydroid for 300 hours! Well...

I do sincerely hope everyone trying Nekros out for the first time or returning to him really enjoys the new gameplay but for me it's disappointing I have to put my baby on the back shelf. I care enough I came all the way to the forum for my first post! :S

Edited August 12, 2016 by onezerotwo
final thought

[YagoXiten]

1 hour ago, (PS4)B_Psycho2 said:

This is a thread discussing Nekros, and the fact that decaying health does not need to exist. 

That's a part of his 4, and the amount of shadows being needed to 7 is also a part of his 4. It's close enough to the point where you shouldn't care. 

 

Anyways, the point is this is a mistake by DE. DE is alright, they can make mistakes, but blindly defending mistakes won't cause needed change to occur. 

We're not going to riot about this, but we're the players, and this is our game, as a community. DE and the players are working together to keep the game good. 

So, if you think Decaying health is good, fine. But if you think it's absolutely necessary, you don't know what game balance is. 

Warframes can clear rooms, turn invisible indefinitely, turn enemies against one another, remove weapons permanently, 

And people think it's a problem to be able to summon 7 specters that don't passively rot. That's wrong.

I do care, because arguing about a point that is not relevant to discussion clogs the thread.

Defending a design decision that you disagree with does not mean that the defense is done 'blindly'. DE has made plenty of mistakes and I've discussed them both privately and publicly on these forums. This is not one of them.

It's not that I think decaying health is necessary, either. It isn't, and I don't think it would horribly unbalance the game or any such thing if it were removed. It would, however, lower player input considerably which is something that they were trying to move away from with these changes. But with all that said, the discussion is whether or not it is a nerf to have it. And it is not a nerf. It is a tweak, and has its advantages and its disadvantages. But, overall, the power has not been weakened by having the health decay aspect to it. If you have not noticed, they've made quite a few changes lately to try and make Warframes more balanced, and I imagine that the Nekros changes are made to bring him to near what they are establishing as the baseline, rather than to the absurd level of the outliers that dominate the metagame.

[(PSN)B_Psycho2]

If you wanted to increase player input, why not have Soul Punch remove a shadow?

Why not have Terrify buff your allies (including Shadows)

these will increase player input, why use a silly deadline?

Edited August 12, 2016 by (PS4)B_Psycho2

[Chipputer]

24 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

It's not that I think decaying health is necessary, either. It isn't, and I don't think it would horribly unbalance the game or any such thing if it were removed. It would, however, lower player input considerably

How, exactly? The shadows are intended to absorb incoming fire and fight back along with Nekros. You will already be constantly refreshing your shadows after every encounter. Adding in decaying health means that they literally take damage from enemies, take unavoidable damage over time, and force the Nekros to stop every 30 seconds (+/- based on your duration stat) to lock himself into an animation that breaks the flow of combat and can cause the player to take damage they otherwise wouldn't have without the unnecessary health drain over time.

In the normal flow of Nekros play I fail to see how decaying health increases player input in any other way than arbitrarily.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Chipputer
clarification

[(PSN)B_Psycho2]

Precisely. There's no reason for it, why take the time to argue for something that you in your heart, don't like?

 

Nobody wants Health Decay on their Shadows. 

Nobody wants a limit on loki's invis, yeah, but that's different, since being invisible forever is a balance problem.

 

Having 7 nondecaying allies is not a problem, otherwise they wouldn't allow you to have a whole bunch of Specters alive at once.

[Absolonium]

Desecrate seems nerfed. It desecrates bodies.. and nothing.. WHY? At least make it so that is the body disappears, there is a GUARANTEED LOOT. Maybe not resources, but ammo would be nice. Also, IT'S PAINFULLY SLOW. In a fast paced game, I was forced to double back to the previous kill room and stare at the corpses until they disintegrate.. Why?

Shadows of the Dead is another matter. I'm just gonna tell it up front. The health decay.. it's stupid. Just slap a duration on the shadows and let us recast to refresh the duration. Do you know how hard it is to micromanage 7 health bars? Which just wouldn't stay put? while being swarmed by enemies? I'm wasting energy trying to recast every 15 or so seconds to find that one shadow was already dead while watching the whole looooooonggg casting animation. I mean.. Why even take duration away? What is the point in telling us shadows won't scale with duration?

Edit: Or maybe they didn't but my point is.. What is the reasoning behind this concept?

Edited August 12, 2016 by VoxAbsolonium

[Eldritchsqueaker]

They were definitely deceptive about how the shadows work, I mean they said we wouldn't need to build for duration anymore in the live stream and then this?

[YagoXiten]

39 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

How, exactly? The shadows are intended to absorb incoming fire and fight back along with Nekros. You will already be constantly refreshing your shadows after every encounter. Adding in decaying health means that they literally take damage from enemies, take unavoidable damage over time, and force the Nekros to stop every 30 seconds (+/- based on your duration stat) to lock himself into an animation that breaks the flow of combat and can cause the player to take damage they otherwise wouldn't have without the unnecessary health drain over time.

In the normal flow of Nekros play I fail to see how decaying health increases player input in any other way than arbitrarily.

Because you'd be able to summon an army on an Interception mission and then go make a sandwich. The animation reduction on the heal makes it pretty negligible, especially with Natural Talent and Speed Drift.

35 minutes ago, (PS4)B_Psycho2 said:

Precisely. There's no reason for it, why take the time to argue for something that you in your heart, don't like?

 

Nobody wants Health Decay on their Shadows. 

Nobody wants a limit on loki's invis, yeah, but that's different, since being invisible forever is a balance problem.

 

Having 7 nondecaying allies is not a problem, otherwise they wouldn't allow you to have a whole bunch of Specters alive at once.

Because I like the health decay and agree it should be there. It would be very boring if it were a button I hit once per mission or on the occasion one happens to die. I enjoy having to care about and invest in my minions.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

3 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

Because you'd be able to summon an army on an Interception mission and then go make a sandwich. The animation reduction on the heal makes it pretty negligible, especially with Natural Talent and Speed Drift.

Because I like the health decay and agree it should be there. It would be very boring if it were a button I hit once per mission or on the occasion one happens to die. I enjoy having to care about and invest in my minions.

I feel like you overestimate the AI and how durable the shadows are, you'd be having to heal them anyway as they take damage. The health decay just adds an unneeded level of micromanagement for flimsy reasons. Just look at Rhino's Iron Skin or Frost's globe. I think the decay should be taken off and a health indicator put over the ability that shows the average health of all your shadows so you can actually play the game instead of babysitting your minions.

[CRAZY_PsYcho]

:(  Since the Nekros Rework my Undead army of 17 is dead for a army of only 7 :(   Why cap that at 7....   u can do like before ??  undead number scalle with power?     Plz  

[Chipputer]

29 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

Because you'd be able to summon an army on an Interception mission and then go make a sandwich

Have you... used Nekros before? The shadows you summon aren't much more powerful than the enemies you're throwing them against.

30 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

The animation reduction on the heal makes it pretty negligible, especially with Natural Talent and Speed Drift.

Right, so arbitrarily forcing the Nekros to press the 4 key every 30 seconds is okay as long as you use two utility mods to speed up the animation it locks you in.

I know exactly who to exclude from any serious balance discussions.

[Dragon-V0942]

There weren't enough people playing like us, so no one will understand, nor care.
It's easier for them to just say it's for performance issues and just cap it at 7.

Honestly we are just wasting time by posting here.
I've been constantly thinking of how to voice my opinion on this.
Professionally?  Or absurd?  Do I risk getting suspended because of constant F-bombs for the sake of getting attention on this matter?  Or do I waste my time and Life writing a long and detailed message (at least as detailed as someone who's upset as me can) and just have it completely ignored and overshadowed by DE favoring the new players over veterans.

At this point, unless they change SOTD back to what was originally (which has the same chance as getting your fan made Warframe concept considered) I'm gonna be playing a whole lot less...  Maybe even stop entirely.
But that's not gonna matter, I've already spent my wallet...  there plenty of others that are going to line up for this.

I just really hate how I can't play my Nekros how I wanted, I thought that was the point of this game... but, out of nowhere it has to happen.
There are no other warframes that I have just as much fun with, then Nekros.
Every other one I have is just a tank powerhouse, or a power spammer... with my Nekros, I had to use everything (except for his first two abilities, which surprisingly haven't been touched to change that)
I... I'm done.

I've sold out my dignity by crying about this for nothing.
Everybody has their own Warframe, everybody has their own play style, and unless it's the play style that the majority uses it for...  No one's going to give a S#&$ about what they change with your favorite warframe and F*** it up for you.
Hell, not even Trinity was safe from this.

I'm going to miss my Nekros.
In the meantime I'll just be playing some other game that has a necromancer of my tastes, until this one comes back. T.=.T

[Shade-Nightclaw]

I may have overreacted with my rant earlier but the health decay is still a bit much..

[trace_phage]

I still think he's still pretty good, 

[Godzelda123]

Shame on the devs for thinking about us Tenno with potato computers.  

 

They just wanna kill this game by making it easier for everyone to play huh? 

[AsuraKyu]

13 minutes ago, trace_phage said:

I still think he's still pretty good, 

Tell that to the people who used the SOTD augment that remained at 6% damage reduction per shadow created which now has a cap at 7...It's not even worth the augment considering how innately squishy Nekros is to start with.

[artemisfortune]

59 minutes ago, Godzelda123 said:

Shame on the devs for thinking about us Tenno with potato computers.  

 

They just wanna kill this game by making it easier for everyone to play huh? 

And shame on the devs for actually making the power viable instead of just a bunch of terrible minions who die too quickly anyway!

[xRufus7x]

36 minutes ago, MicSet said:

There weren't enough people playing like us, so no one will understand, nor care.
It's easier for them to just say it's for performance issues and just cap it at 7.

Honestly we are just wasting time by posting here.
I've been constantly thinking of how to voice my opinion on this.
Professionally?  Or absurd?  Do I risk getting suspended because of constant F-bombs for the sake of getting attention on this matter?  Or do I waste my time and Life writing a long and detailed message (at least as detailed as someone who's upset as me can) and just have it completely ignored and overshadowed by DE favoring the new players over veterans.

At this point, unless they change SOTD back to what was originally (which has the same chance as getting your fan made Warframe concept considered) I'm gonna be playing a whole lot less...  Maybe even stop entirely.
But that's not gonna matter, I've already spent my wallet...  there plenty of others that are going to line up for this.

I just really hate how I can't play my Nekros how I wanted, I thought that was the point of this game... but, out of nowhere it has to happen.
There are no other warframes that I have just as much fun with, then Nekros.
Every other one I have is just a tank powerhouse, or a power spammer... with my Nekros, I had to use everything (except for his first two abilities, which surprisingly haven't been touched to change that)
I... I'm done.

I've sold out my dignity by crying about this for nothing.
Everybody has their own Warframe, everybody has their own play style, and unless it's the play style that the majority uses it for...  No one's going to give a S#&$ about what they change with your favorite warframe and F*** it up for you.
Hell, not even Trinity was safe from this.

I'm going to miss my Nekros.
In the meantime I'll just be playing some other game that has a necromancer of my tastes, until this one comes back. T.=.T

Dramatic much. Shadows draw more agro than they used to and more powerful units are given priority. Combined with the ability to heal your units and a new synergy with Energy Conversion and the ability to recall units to you and SOTD is just as viable as it ever was. And yah there were performance issues. Each Nekros could summon 20 units. Get 2 or 3 on a squad and it is going to start to strain consoles and lower end PCs. Yah it could still use some tweaks(slowing the health drain a bit and giving us a way to dispel individual shadows, maybe through Soul Punch, but overall currently it is more of a sidegrade than a Nerf.

Edited August 12, 2016 by xRufus7x

[xRufus7x]

 

3 minutes ago, AsuraKyu said:

Tell that to the people who used the SOTD augment that remained at 6% damage reduction per shadow created which now has a cap at 7...It's not even worth the augment considering how innately squishy Nekros is to start with.

The augment scales off of power strength now.  

[CRAZY_PsYcho]

The ability to heal shadows and duration buff are good but have a army of only 7... that is not good enough for doing high lvl mission in solo or for doing like 1h of surival in high lvl

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Just now, xRufus7x said:

Dramatic much. Shadows draw more agro than they used to and more powerful units are given priority. Combined with the ability to heal your units and a new synergy with Energy Conversion and the ability to recall units to you and SOTD is just as viable as it ever was. And yah there were performance issues. Each Nekros could summon 20 units. Get 2 or 3 on a squad and it is going to start to strain consoles and lower end PCs and consoles. Yah it could still use some tweaks(slowing the health drain a bit and giving us a way to dispel individual shadows, maybe through Soul Punch, but overall currently it is more of a sidegrade than a Nerf.

I havent seen even one nekro at the team outside of farm mission, set aside 2 or even 3. To heal or resummon shadows you need to waste full energy price, which is bs. Also you can't choose which shadow you want to summon(game doesn't pick da best ones as you may thinkg it is), they still tied with duration, unless you spam 4 (we was told that we don't gonna need to spam 3 anymore...now we need to spam 4). It's a hard nerf in exchage for....i dinno, ghostly ability to heal them up for full price and a little damage boost, not worth it

[Gunstray]

Inb4 DE White knight force shove their usual Its not a nerf its a rework guise.

Honestly though reworking and then nerfing a frame that's getting a PA is a dumb move.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Gunstray