Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[felixsylvaris]

Number 7 is ok, performance is no joke.

Just the strenght of this super minions need to be right.

And there is problem of lack of mods and arcane helmet to pimp Nekros duration.

[NinjaMan]

His 3 rework was amazing, but I feel like it should auto recast on a fail using energy or health instead of consuming the body. And his 4 was a touch off with the cap, at least make it cap at 10 or 15 and make SoS start with maximum effect unwavered by strength, and split the dog evenly make strength dictate health loss / count, and duration dictate how fast the health loss dmg ticks go. Also his 4 energy consumption on recast should be a % cost of remaining hp pool left of the least damaged minion, seeing that you're supposed to cycle to the strongest one anyway why isn't the cost based on the strongest. Army of the undead did hit quite far off base the more I type about it now, jeez.... :s

 

I know AoU is good as a meat shield, and that's why the problem with the numbers so small is such a big issue, also SoS kinda sucks without AoU being good because of health conversion nekros with despoil which also took a hit cause you can't tap in your life pool for the armour buff, but got buffed cause you don't need despoil cause it's a single cast passive, why I thought of the changes to help farming cause it's a huge grind to begin with, and the 3 augment is kinda worthless now. But thank god for the nekros mobility buff, can finally walk with nekros on a farming mission. 

Edited August 12, 2016 by NinjaManTR
Tired.

[xRufus7x]

13 minutes ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:

I havent seen even one nekro at the team outside of farm mission, set aside 2 or even 3. To heal or resummon shadows you need to waste full energy price, which is bs. Also you can't choose which shadow you want to summon(game doesn't pick da best ones as you may thinkg it is), they still tied with duration, unless you spam 4 (we was told that we don't gonna need to spam 3 anymore...now we need to spam 4). It's a hard nerf in exchage for....i dinno, ghostly ability to heal them up for full price and a little damage boost, not worth it

 

Just because you have not seen something does not mean that it doesn't exist. DE needs to optimize the game for mid range PCs and consoles. This is a fact of life..

Kills are tiered now with trash mobs being the lowest priority and heavy units being pushed to the top. You are right in that it isn't complete control but it is more than we had before.

Duration is about what it was before. If you were using SOTD before you can sstill use it now. 

 

14 minutes ago, CRAZY_PsYcho said:

The ability to heal shadows and duration buff are good but have a army of only 7... that is not good enough for doing high lvl mission in solo or for doing like 1h of surival in high lvl

They aren't meant to kill and never did that at high level anyways. Their primary use has always been as meatshields and they are arguably better at that now than they were before due to their increased aggro. Also, I ran the sorties with him today and didn't have any issues. 

Edited August 12, 2016 by xRufus7x

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Just now, felixsylvaris said:

Number 7 is ok, performance is no joke.

Just the strenght of this super minions need to be right.

And there is problem of lack of mods and arcane helmet to pimp Nekros duration.

Thing is-there shouldn't be any dutation in his 4, like at all. In da last devstream DE themselves says that they REMOVE duration from SotD, completely, you just summon shadows and they live untill they get killed by an enemy, period.

Thats why so many players (included me) were exited about da t rework. BUT, but after de roll out a update we find a new thing in patchnotes aka "shadows lose hp even when they do nothing, and it affected by duration"...like what da hek? So what were sayed in devstream is It's a blatant lie and false advertizing. I's still affected by duration, just in another, less convinient way.

[VinDanger]

Just now, -CM-Hekovashi said:

Thing is-there shouldn't be any dutation in his 4, like at all. In da last devstream DE themselves says that they REMOVE duration from SotD, completely, you just summon shadows and they live untill they get killed by an enemy, period.

Thats why so many players (included me) were exited about da t rework. BUT, but after de roll out a update we find a new thing in patchnotes aka "shadows lose hp even when they do nothing, and it affected by duration"...like what da hek? So what were sayed in devstream is It's a blatant lie and false advertizing. I's still affected by duration, just in another, less convinient way.

everything on devstreams are work in progress and subject to change, but yeah they should get rid of the health draining

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Just now, xRufus7x said:

 

Just because you have not seen something does not mean that it doesn't exist. DE needs to optimize the game for mid range PCs and consoles. This is a fact of life..

Kills are tiered now with trash mobs being the lowest priority and heavy units being pushed to the top. You are right in that it isn't complete control but it is more than we had before.

Duration is about what it was before. If you were using SOTD before you can sstill use it now. 

 

They aren't meant to kill and never did that at high level anyways. Their primary use has always been as meatshields and they are arguably better at that now than they were before due to their increased aggro. Also, I ran the sorties with him today and didn't have any issues. 

I dinno how it's better than before, it game prioritize crewmen over shield osprays. There shoudn't be any duration at all.

[DiosGX]

Ono you have to add primed cont what a tragedy

[Eldritchsqueaker]

The problem is that they outright said we wouldn't have to build for duration anymore before going out and adding this pointless health decay, which also makes the shadows -significantly- less tanky to boot. 

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Just now, VinDanger said:

everything on devstreams are work in progress and subject to change, but yeah they should get rid of the health draining

"WE REMOVE DURATION" and then you just put it back like nothing happens. Wanna hp drain-tied it to str or find another way, coz you just said that you will remove duration, several times. You just can't keep it, then think about something else, that will affect hp drain...nah, lazy, il just put it back.

[(PSN)Laughingshadowsx]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 2:37 AM, (PS4)Tenchi145 said:

I'm noticing alot of you must be new to this. Yes PC gets more updates than we do, but that is because they can release and patch on their own terms. When it comes to console it has to go through the respective companies first. So the program has to go through some serious scrutiny before its even handed to Sony for certification. Please have some patience.

lol im just waiting on Nekros prime access whether his rework was for the btter or for worse hes the only warframe I can attach my ps4 name too besides if your good at the game theres really no need to complain cuz in the end Nekros still kicks &#! better than most of the other frames in the game

 

[Twistedsparkle]

after playing several hours with bonelord I really enjoyed my time
but I did notice areas that could be improved upon 



health decay is bit too aggressive
I think I get the Idea of the health decay its supposed to keep nekros active and constantly alert of the shadows health
meanwhile limiting negative power duration builds
but it is way too aggressive at this point maybe reduce the decay to 1.5-2 per second?

SotD casting time is just so slooooow
it takes frigin forever to cast the shadows and maintain cast is shorter but still sluggish
I think that with the natural talent the speed is what it should be at base
I truly hope this gets some attention 

Shield of shadows dmg reduction needs tweaking
why not increase the base percentage?

SotD shadows should rotate to stronger ones automatically
or with maintain cast

soul punch is still so simple and boring
why not give it some tweaks?

Finally I still think nekros could use a bit of stat tweaking
I actually think he could use more health or even armor

[DeMeritus]

1 hour ago, CRAZY_PsYcho said:

:(  Since the Nekros Rework my Undead army of 17 is dead for a army of only 7 :(   Why cap that at 7....   u can do like before ??  undead number scalle with power?     Plz  

Because console players complained.

[clemza]

1 hour ago, MicSet said:

It's easier for them to just say it's for performance issues and just cap it at 7.

 

1 hour ago, Godzelda123 said:

Shame on the devs for thinking about us Tenno with potato computers.  

 

They just wanna kill this game by making it easier for everyone to play huh? 

I play with a gt9600 and a low cpu, low settings with everything disabled, about 30fps max and 22 - 25 in general, i never had performances issues with the 17 shadows :/

[bubbabenali]

I'd rather have 7 buffed Bombards\ Nullifiers\ Ancients instead of 17 crappeople, thankyouverymuch.

[Bibliothekar]

1 hour ago, MicSet said:

I just really hate how I can't play my Nekros how I wanted, I thought that was the point of this game...

You're being delusional here. It was always at DE's discretion how mods affect abilities. It's just that until now their idea of how Power Strength works with SotD fit yours. Maybe for others it didn't, but they made do with what they had.

With every change there are people who get mad because they have to go back and reconsider their loadout and come up with a new one. And yet, those changes lead to people getting those frames out of cold storage and playing them again the first time for years, and maybe discovering that they're not as bad as they thought back when they first got them.

 

[Stoner]

Desecrate now is a togglable power.. Buuut has only 50% chance of dropping loot. SotD now has more powerful shadows (not really)... buuut the number decreased from 20 to 7 and has health drain. 

Compromises.. compromises everywhere

[Eldritchsqueaker]

I'm just not sure what the point of sticking a hard nerf on an already underpowered frame was to be honest, I'd be fine with the reduction in number if it weren't for the fact that they stuck a pointless health decay mechanic to make sure they're even weaker.

[Airwolfen]

51 minutes ago, Gunstray said:

Inb4 DE White knight force shove their usual Its not a nerf its a rework guise.

Honestly though reworking and then nerfing a frame that's getting a PA is a dumb move.

Inb4 DE Doom sayers force shove their usual Its a nerf its not a rework guise.

------------

See that this adds nothing constructive and can be used both ways?

Edited August 12, 2016 by Airwolfen

[LuckyCharm]

Personally I love the shadows of the dead change. It's epic and was so fun for sorties

Desecrate... I have problems with this ability currently. It seems after the rework even with max range the cast of it is sooo slow even if there's a ton of bodies around. bodies disappear well before it's even looted them most times for me. Not sure if bug or an unannounced feature, but its annoying 

[-N7-Leonhart]

Don't just look at the HUD with the same multiplier numbers and think "ah, they are the same". Those multipliers are for a base, base that you have no way of knowing it's the same until you test it out.

[DerkmeisterPrime]

1 hour ago, AsuraKyu said:

Tell that to the people who used the SOTD augment that remained at 6% damage reduction per shadow created which now has a cap at 7...It's not even worth the augment considering how innately squishy Nekros is to start with.

Shield of Shadows augment scales with pwr srgth, I used it earlier and it was 90% dmg resist.

[smokednin]

For me, under this new system my shadows actually seem to die faster than they used to. Before the update I was able to keep them up constantly and never run out of energy (with just Nekros' base 150 energy), but now I frequently lose my shadows, and don't have enough energy to get more. :S

The AI hasn't been improved from what I can tell, and since I used to rely on the sheer number of shadows summoned to keep me safe (along with the augment), it has made the ability less useful in many circumstances. I like some aspects of it, but I feel like 7 is just too few, and the rapidly draining health is a bit too extreme. It's kinda sad that these changes have considerably limited the augment's usefulness, especially since useful augments are so rare to come by as it is.

Also, on the topic of performance - couldn't DE just keep the shadows from rendering for people who are having frame rate issues? It's not like you really need to see them, especially if you weren't the one who summoned them. I kinda wish DE did that with Mirage's projectiles too instead of cutting Hall of Mirrors' clones in half. Having fewer, stronger things isn't as fun as having a bunch of things for me. Dunno why but both abilities just feel less.. interesting now. I loved the hectic action that having 4 clones or 10+ shadows brought.

5 minutes ago, DerkmeisterPrime said:

Shield of Shadows augment scales with pwr srgth, I used it earlier and it was 90% dmg resist.

According to the wiki, it takes 214% power strength with all 7 shadows currently alive and in range to achieve 90% damage resist.

Edited August 12, 2016 by smokednin

[PixalatedVortex]

29 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Personally I love the shadows of the dead change. It's epic and was so fun for sorties

Desecrate... I have problems with this ability currently. It seems after the rework even with max range the cast of it is sooo slow even if there's a ton of bodies around. bodies disappear well before it's even looted them most times for me. Not sure if bug or an unannounced feature, but its annoying 

The new shadows can't old a candle to the old ones, they just don't, you can't even argue about it stat wise your total summon health pool is lower and so is their max damage output and keeping them alive is so hard, where as the old ones were rarely killed

[Tygastripe]

They aren't bad issues, but just something to point out. Before his rework and the Relic introduction I enjoyed going to the ODS solo and destroying the infested from 30 minutes up to an hour. usually it was for farming Nano Spores, but it was an amazing feeling when Nova Prime's systems would drop.

 

I liked having a ton of the shadows wondering around, but with this rework I feel they are a lot stronger now than they were before. I read somewhere recasting them would force them to come back to my current location and give them their health back, relocating half worked (I know about the 30 meter range). I'd get 2-3 shadows to come back and the rest are further out where casting SOTD should've brought them back to me. However, the shadows are by far a lot tankier now than they were originally, I just dont like keeping up with them when they should be keeping up with me. Also, when summoning SOTD they aren't replicating my energy color. After 45+ minutes of ODS eximus units were everywhere and I ended up wasting bullets on my own shadows versus the enemies. I think there should also be an identifier up top to let us now that our Desecrate ability is toggled on (similar to Blessing, arcanes, berserker procs, etc) Having the ability blurred/grayed out makes me think I have no energy for the cost to cast it, which is how it looks on any frame without enough energy to cast an ability. I love that I'm not staying still and spamming Desecrate anymore, but I also feel we're not getting the same amount of loot back as we were before. I tested Nekros with and without Natural Talent to see if it made a difference in his ability, but it is seriously just a one time per enemy thing. Overall, I think the rework is great! Soul Punch and Terrify I have no complaints about at all. Just a few minor issues around the others. 

 

Just a few other bugs as well. This was a solo game. I was one shot by an Ancient Healer and after reviving the SOTD from my previous life were still there! They truly are ghosts.

 

http://imgur.com/a/xSko7

 

http://imgur.com/a/c8t8d

Thanks for reading.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Tygastripe

[YagoXiten]

3 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Have you... used Nekros before? The shadows you summon aren't much more powerful than the enemies you're throwing them against.

Right, so arbitrarily forcing the Nekros to press the 4 key every 30 seconds is okay as long as you use two utility mods to speed up the animation it locks you in.

I know exactly who to exclude from any serious balance discussions.

I have hundreds of hours on Nekros and I've never run a Desecrate build. I've always run SotD / tank Nekros.

With not having to spam Desecrate, Terrify and Soul Punch's QoL cast time tweaks they did forever ago, and the current cast time reduction on SotD for healing your Shadows, you don't absolutely need those two utility mods.

And it's certainly not arbitrary. My Shadows can and do kill enemies. It's not quite as effective as WoF, but they're always going to be stronger than the enemies you are fighting, so, yes, it might take awhile, but you could legitimately defend an Interception point without having to cast it a bunch.

Ad hominems do not help your arguments, and do not a discussion make.