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Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes


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53 minutes ago, PixalatedVortex said:

The new shadows can't old a candle to the old ones, they just don't, you can't even argue about it stat wise your total summon health pool is lower and so is their max damage output and keeping them alive is so hard, where as the old ones were rarely killed

This is true, but for the sorties, they worked perfectly. They didn't have the same stat pool, true BUT I found them a lot easier to survive with if that makes sense. The old shadows of the dead I found myself always dying literally as soon as my shadows ran out and I went to recast it. This new one though, I had no downtime. I was able to keep them alive the entire mission and whenever I needed them the teleport to me button was only a click away. 

Stat wise they don't compare. But utility wise they're far superior. 

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2 hours ago, Stoner74 said:

Desecrate now is a togglable power.. Buuut has only 50% chance of dropping loot. SotD now has more powerful shadows (not really)... buuut the number decreased from 20 to 7 and has health drain. 

Compromises.. compromises everywhere

At least a Nekros now can actually play the game.

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1 hour ago, LuckyCharm said:

whenever I needed them the teleport to me button was only a click away. 

Then you didn't run more than 50m from them! Now you can't teleport if they go too far and that's very sad as it makes you wait long enough to get killed if you run fast!

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11 hours ago, Taegire01 said:

make desecrate a passive ability.

I had come to this conclusion to. It is even more apparent now that Desecrate should simply be a passive ability for Nekros. Without the requirement to continually recast it is simply cast once at the beginning of the mission and never touch it again ie a wasted ability slot. It can still have a drain (fixed energy cost per corpse and not effected by efficiency etc) and Despoil can be the first augment mod that interacts with a warframe's passive ability. Hopefully this will open the doors to an augment that makes Oberons passive not completely $&!@.

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2 hours ago, YagoXiten said:

And it's certainly not arbitrary. My Shadows can and do kill enemies. It's not quite as effective as WoF, but they're always going to be stronger than the enemies you are fighting,

If any damage focused ability kills slower than WoF at level 100, it's a terrible ability.

The point of SotD had always been a damage reduction buff to Nekros. Now that we need at least 200% strength to keep the 90% damage reduction afloat, with a seven shadow mass decoy taunt with various degrees of utility, yes, I would admit that it's a good ability. But as far as the minions are concerned, it's pretty hard to tank anything if it needs to take enemy fire on top of a stupid DoT. Not mentioning that the shadow will pop when in contact with a nullifier bubble, I don't want to babysit seven specters every minute or so. It's fine when you follow the mmorpg logic of having one main pet per necromancer that requires damage buffs and healing, but it isn't when babysitting three players in a squad with Trinity is already extremely painful because this is a fast paced game. 

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3 hours ago, Airwolfen said:

They are a lot tankier indeed having a higher shield and armor bonuses then before.

The only thing changed was the shield multiplier. The health and damage multiplier remained the same. I've been looking back and forth a lot. Also desecrate received a huge nerf. 90% additional chance at loot, 60% chance at health, and re-rolling desecrate on multiple enemies to the now 1 by 1 delay with 1 second wait between each enemy, increased cost, 1 desecrate per enemy, and a 46% chance you'll waste your energy/health for the game to spawn absolutely nothing. They had the right idea but implemented it quite poorly. So that's why there is less loot. 

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i repeat every day!!! Shadow of the Dead rework is a good idea but,the decay system destroy nekros, because need DURATION MOD, and the % of decay is too high!, The greneers has armor, but corpus and infested don't, and they die easly with this method and at high level they are unseful. Pls DE rework the shadow of the dead decay system pls!!!!

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They also said that SOTD would no longer have a duration ... now not only does it still technically have its duration, they have a health decay/second. This means prior to his "rework(NERF)" your shadows would stay up for lets say 20 seconds. That means after 15 seconds, if you hadnt come across any enmeies the last 5 seconds they were up they would still be at full HP & ready for battle. After his "rework(NERF)" if you cast SOTD, you still have say 20 seconds till the duration ends (because they will die from health decay) but now if you dont come across enemies for 15 seconds, the last 5 seconds when you do come across them, they are amost dead from just standing around.

DE should not have implamented the health decay on SOTD, and instead made it so that Desecrate was affected by Duration. This way less duration would mean faster desecrating of bodies, but at the offset of having less time on terrify. As it stands now Nekros just screams out "I NEED a trinity to support me" as 10energy or Health/body is just WAY to costly for the avarage player to support, especially since the health orb rate has been drasstically cut not even the augment is a viable alternative as it is not affected by effiency mods.

With Nekros Prime just around the corner DE should be hyping Nekros up making him fun to play & everyone wanting to buy the Prime Access, as it stands now not only is he less use than he used to be, but having maxxed mods are pretty much essential  for newer players obtaining him just to make him even somewhat viabale on missions.

 

P.S. A little bug I guess, is that the higher the health decay/sec is, the "better" it says it is (green text) whereas having a low Health% lost/sec is classed as bad (red text). My maths may be wrong here, but loosing 1.5% health/sec is not as bad as loosing say 7.5%/sec so the colours need to be swapped.

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On 11/08/2016 at 10:54 AM, Tizodd said:

This is not about being resistant to change.  Not all changes are good and not everyone dislikes change simply because they're resistant to it.  Some changes are just bad and not needed.

After playing around a bit with Nekros I can honestly say that the health decay of minions is a nerf...nothing more, nothing less.  It's made even worse when you factor in the 7 minion limit.  Nekros has never been an OP or meta frame (except for maybe Desecrate spam), so why nerf him?  I don't understand why DE felt this change was needed.

Please DE, revert this change.  Reducing the minion limit to 7 is a bad enough nerf, but to make them constantly lose health for no reason is adding insult to injury.

In short, the "no duration limit" we were told we would get has been replaced with "they loose HP/second so they still have a duration, but now they also weaken during that duration"

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54 minutes ago, Matt89Connor said:

i repeat every day!!! Shadow of the Dead rework is a good idea but,the decay system destroy nekros, because need DURATION MOD, and the % of decay is too high!, The greneers has armor, but corpus and infested don't, and they die easly with this method and at high level they are unseful. Pls DE rework the shadow of the dead decay system pls!!!!

Was absolutely useless the word you were looking for? Lol

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2 hours ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

1 by 1 delay with 1 second wait between each enemy, increased cost, 1 desecrate per enemy,

Oh wow, yeah it definitely needs to be faster.  Especially with the decay rate of corpses and how many weapons vaporize them.  It should be a true aoe effect, a pulse that hits every corpse in the area every second.  The more corpses effected should also reduce the cost so as to not overwhelm (or murder) nekros.

 

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6 hours ago, smokednin said:

Also, on the topic of performance - couldn't DE just keep the shadows from rendering for people who are having frame rate issues? It's not like you really need to see them, especially if you weren't the one who summoned them. I kinda wish DE did that with Mirage's projectiles too instead of cutting Hall of Mirrors' clones in half. Having fewer, stronger things isn't as fun as having a bunch of things for me. Dunno why but both abilities just feel less.. interesting now. I loved the hectic action that having 4 clones or 10+ shadows brought.

The issue was with the enemy cap of a certain session, it usually maxes out at 80 enemies for performance reasons. Nekros however can summon up to 20 additional allies with overlapping AI, pretty sure this is what was causing frame rate issues, I doubt it matters if the Shadows are rendered or not. 

Edited by Agentawesome
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22 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Oh wow, yeah it definitely needs to be faster.  Especially with the decay rate of corpses and how many weapons vaporize them.  It should be a true aoe effect, a pulse that hits every corpse in the area every second.  The more corpses effected should also reduce the cost so as to not overwhelm (or murder) nekros.

 

If they fixed it to 5 energy/health and like maybe 2 enemy per desecrate it would be much faster. I've watched gameplay and it doesn't seem that bad. The only downside I see for myself is that 54% drop chance. Luck based mechanics in anything is definitely not my friend at all. I literally have the worst luck of all my friends and clan mates. I've been told I'm not allowed to nova p systems farm with a few of them as I'm bad luck. Lol. 

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It is not a 1 second delay come now don't say things that are so horribly wrong. I desecrate a whole room in a manner of seconds. There is a delay indeed  but not the way you think. Where the delay lies is in the FIRST desecrate. To elaborate,

Let's say you turn desecrate on, but there isn't anything to desecrate. Then you kill some enemies, there is a 1 second delay before Desecrate starts to function, and that is becuase there is a sampling in your range "is there a corpse, no? Wait a few seconds. Is there a corpse, no? Wait a few seconds before checking again etc.." BUT once it has "is there a corpse, yes?.." the sampling rate goes up and you desecrate very quickly from what I've seen. You might not desecrate the corpse you're standing next to because it goes in order and the next corpse might be further away.

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I disagree that decay is a problem. It can be modded for to be a non-issue. If you we didn't have this our minions would not die and we wouldn't be able to summon the stronger ones or different ones.

The ability isn't worse in my opinion at all form what it was before. I have 84% damage reduction (with shield of shadows), 7 strong meat shields, and don't have to press 3 all day. Also damage scaling is twice of health / shield scaling. That's not to say it is any useful in high lvl grineer missions but it works okay versus corpus.

You can't build nekros anymore with no duration like we used with overextended and fleeting, but there are other builds that are really good imo.

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Finally had time to play:

Desecrate:

  1. it NEEDS a range indicator - similar to pacify and provoke.
  2. Despoil speed is too low, bodies disappear before it can despoil them.

Shadows:

  1. Too fast decay. Average lifetime is too short (considering max eff is mandatory for nekros, you must use FE aswell).
  2. Shield augment causes them to die insanely fast together with decay - while augment has higher value, there is less shadows to soak up the damage.
  3. Hard to figure out if they are  near death or not unless you move cursor over each one of them 1 by 1 - in the middle of combat. Perhaps make them glow or look as if they  start to decay visually.
  4. Damage was not increased - the overall dps dropped considerably

 

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every day i reapeat and repeat; the decay system is a big problem, it need to be fix, ( i know , remove this system is impossibile because for the DE the undeads become too strong), but DURATION MODS, 3% of base decay , this is the problem.

4 solutions:

1)make effcicency mods good for reduce decay.

2) base decay go from 3% to 1.75 so duration mods need only if you want shadows with long duration and you can use others mods fo nekros  and the build is more easly.

3) 3rd solution: the DE idea speak in the past devstream: decay % is based by Strenght MODs.

4) lifesteal for shadows to take life from enemies 

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It seems that some are forgetting that now nekros Shadows of the dead pick the strongest units, not like before that it would pick the last enemies you killed.

The other day I when to a corpus mission, survival, fissure level 40 to 50 kore or less, I can't remember very well but the point is that during the entire mission I had 2 bursas, 3 nullifiers and 2 of those big red dudes that I forgot their name and they were killing everything and the nullifiers were so much that I couldn't see the enemies because of those bubbles and the bursas throwing thos missiles. Even with the health decay it was no problem to keep them alive, just here and there I had no problem doing my own thing and letting them do their own. I have only 128 power duration so its not much and I can keep it for a long time, in these case it was around 30 minutes that I had to do eat something I was hungry XD.

I see no issue with the decay, it is not even noticeable. Think about it this way, enemy scaling is broken? Well so will your shadows.

Edit: I forgot to say that I am guessing the reason it is now only seven mobs is because it picks the strongest.

Edited by Cryostasisprotoss
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1 hour ago, TaylorsContraction said:

You can't build nekros anymore with no duration like we used with overextended and fleeting, but there are other builds that are really good imo.

For a desecrate build, we can still mod for low duration. For SotD builds regardless of pre or post rework, duration is mandatory. The rework didn't really change much besides decreasing the number of shadows and have their hp bars tied in with duration, which is a really terrible idea because you have to make them tank, while anything can just mow a single shadow down and your damage reduction instantly drops by 1/7, as opposed to the 1/20 something pre rework. And now it's much easier to mow them down because they take both enemy fire and decay. You cannot leave anything unattended for more than 20 seconds.

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I think that a good way to make this ability better (after the change of update specter of the rail 2.1) is to scale che power's cost depending on the number of shadows. I mean if you summon 7 shadow than you will have the power cost more than summoning 1 shadow (you know 7 shadows, 1 die, you use the 4 power to replace it). And if there are no shadows to summon ( so you use the power just to heal them) the power will be less costy in order to make the healing more convinient and to solve the decaing problem.

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