(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Na but seriously tho, why would He need this? Are the shadows overpowered? Hell no. Theyr ai makes them useless for anything but eating bullets. Like 15 hardly needet theyr duration... But 7?! 7 shadows In a scenario where enemys just outscale them real fast Need to loose health (or duration? it's essencially the same) to not be overpowered? Shadows That, again, do nearly nothing Need to be killed by a mechanic Shadows Which need kills and power to even exists Need mother******g mechanics that kill them to be balanced? I seriously can't Shake the feeling that absolutely noone of DE'd working stuff and/or Management actually Plays this game anymore... i mean why else would anyone ever Nerf sotd? On top of nerfing his farming ability RIGHT before the next PA... Welp, i mean you Reap what you sow...kinda curious how many peeps won't buy a Prime access for a Frame who now ranks next to Oberon, Zephyr, nezha...without the corresponding Fanbase- but that rather had a prior Meta base... with meta functions that essencially died with the rework.. Edited August 13, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingFar Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Please calm down a bit on the damage per second health decay, right now its huge especially when you guys promised we wont have to focus on duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEternalJester Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) I'm going to throw a few ideas out just for Ss and Gs: Shadows in Desecrate's area of effect have reduced/removed drain. Change the spawnings. Give a mix of units (Grineer should get, like, four Lancers/Troopers, two Heavies, one bombard, something like that. Mix the summons up a bit). Up AI aggression. They still aren't enough. Don't have them go for cover, just have them fire and fire and fire. Enemies marked by Terrify are focused on by Summons. Reduce the max range needed for teleport. Made a thread about this one, but allow Arcane Pulse to heal Shadows, or allow Health Orb pickups to heal Shadows if Nekros is at max health. Allow Eximus. Some way to control their actions would be nice (Charge or Escort). Sped up casting would also be nice. Unless I'm not remembering correctly, this has one of the slowest casting times of any of the ultimate abilities. Edited August 13, 2016 by TheEternalJester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaMasque Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) After playing with the new Nekros a bit... I felt more Carrier dependent, especially doing the Despoil and Equilibrium combo on my SoS build. Like the fact that his shadows can last forever and are actually competent enough to kill enemies. Hate how you have to WAIT until some of them die/expire to get a variety in his shadows... If I want a bombard and I already have a full party, I should be able to remove one or two of them manually and then hope I spawn him when I press 4 again... Actually... why not? You know how you can pop Frost's Snow Globe with his 1(Freeze.) Let's have Nekros remove unwanted shadows with this Soul Punch or use Terrify and have them go into a frenzy making them deal more damage, move much faster, and expire more quickly. I want to summon an ideal team... I'm sorry for asking to much. I DON'T NEED 5 NULLIES! ahem... Edited August 13, 2016 by DaMasque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elathas Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Today I made a Ember.... For those of you who have a Ember, I know you know this, (points accusing finger) She is super op... Can clear entire rooms in a instant or at the very least cc the heck of them.... (sigh) which made me think of Nekros, who sure can do a solid job, but when you start comparing him to other frames, he simply doesn't stack up... no matter what mods you put in him... Nekros used to have a shadow army, that could take over an entire room, or really what seemed like the whole building, that was him in glory... Now he has few minions and a constant desecrate, but he has lost his shine, his wow factor... His army is no longer impressive, his cc is okay, and even his loot, which he is known for, is much lower (sigh) hydroid might even be the better looter now... Hydroid the guy with tentacles, bah come on. I am not saying make Nekros the best frame in the game (you can though, if you really want to :D) but, right now he still needs a lot of work. In my opinion those who used Nekros just for farming are happy with this rework, but those who really liked Nekros, and played him regularly are disappointed.... Edited August 13, 2016 by Elathas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WINDMILEYNO Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) I don't want to be that console guy complaining about things I don't know anything about but .... There are laggier (for lack of better words) frames in this game besides nekros. I personally have never experienced lag with a nekros, but no one asked for my personal experience Why seven though? Why not ten? Hydroid holds more than seven enemies in his pool of water, that doesn't cause lag? Limbo can banish more than seven enemies, no lag there? I have a sneaking suspicion this is about more than just connectivity issues...because there probably were other things that could have been done but.... I'm not a game developer, and I don't work at DE, nor do I have in-depth knowledge of game design. I live in happy console land and I'm enjoying my not reworked nekros and Draco runs very much. And because I have been so negative, let me take this moment to say one positive thing, and that is that the work the devs put into this game is amazing. Edited August 13, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO Better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnthesteak87 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) On 11/08/2016 at 5:54 AM, Tizodd said: This is not about being resistant to change. Not all changes are good and not everyone dislikes change simply because they're resistant to it. Some changes are just bad and not needed. After playing around a bit with Nekros I can honestly say that the health decay of minions is a nerf...nothing more, nothing less. It's made even worse when you factor in the 7 minion limit. Nekros has never been an OP or meta frame (except for maybe Desecrate spam), so why nerf him? I don't understand why DE felt this change was needed. Please DE, revert this change. Reducing the minion limit to 7 is a bad enough nerf, but to make them constantly lose health for no reason is adding insult to injury. I totally disagree. With the aggro change, SotD is still pretty useful. The health decay is a problem only with humanoid Shadows, which cover, stay into cover and slowly die anyway. Also it has a good impact on the player, it gives him/her a choice to do with Energy: sustain Shadows or use it for Terrify and LifeStrike. Finally some Risk vs Reward in this gameplay. The actual real problem is Shadows' damage and resilience, which haven't been enhanced since Shadows 1.0. So the problem isn't the Health Decay which adds more spice to Nekros' gameplay, it's the Shadows Damage and AI. Edited August 16, 2016 by [DE]Taylor removed rude remark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyghter Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 If u have 50% power duration it will slow the decay to 2% per sec that means the shadow will remain 50 sec if they dont take dmg and i say its ok . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)salovel1991 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Flyghter said: If u have 50% power duration it will slow the decay to 2% per sec that means the shadow will remain 50 sec if they dont take dmg and i say its ok . IF they don't take damage that would mean you're not fighting. But my build now at 140% duration gets 42 seconds and usually my shadows don't die. But in the rework, if you use shield of shadows, each shadow takes a higher percentage of damage from the mod. So on top of health decay and enemy damage that's 3 sources of damage to shadows. Which essentially is a nerf to duration. Edit: Also power strength means each shadow takes a higher amount of damage. With Intensify equipped each shadow will take 7% damage done to Nekros rather than 6%. Regardless if it's done to health or shield. Edited August 13, 2016 by (PS4)salovel1991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 If the Decay is going to stay, we need something to tell us when they are about to die. In the old SotD we had a timer in the UI, so we could know when to get ready to cast again with a glance to the bottom right, now we have to look at one of our shadows to get an estimate. My suggestion is to put a symbol in UI with the % of their overall health decay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfnrun Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 3 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said: I don't want to be that console guy complaining about things I don't know anything about but .... There are laggier (for lack of better words) frames in this game besides nekros. I personally have never experienced lag with a nekros, but no one asked for my personal experience Why seven though? Why not ten? Hydroid holds more than seven enemies in his pool of water, that doesn't cause lag? Limbo can banish more than seven enemies, no lag there? I have a sneaking suspicion this is about more than just connectivity issues...because there probably were other things that could have been done but... I have not read a single thread complainging about performace with nekros, something fishy is going on, right now were trying to find a compromise and or some sort-of solution to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerheathen Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 There's obviously a pretty hefty outcry about this in a big way. This might be the nail in the coffin if it continues to get ignored. No pun intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4talFr4me Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) These changes are horrible. i dont have these despoil augments and shield one for the army. im constantly out of energy even with max efficiency! the loot chance was cut by 40% and the energy cost is beyond stupid! id rather go back to have lots of loot and spamming a 3 button for a much cheaper cost and effecting ALL corpses in a radius! Then the worst decision ever comes in. my SoTD are dieing almost instantly! i watched there hp drain in less than 10 seconds and they all hit the floor. USELESS! this update is terrible! id rather have old nekros if this is what "fixing" is supposed to be like. Edit: sole purpose of desecrate is making loot. now its a 54% chance (very poor) to get loot now AND wether it actually makes loot or not you take my energy?! what other frame has a "chance on skill use to work 50% of the time and still take energy"? NONE! stop breaking frames DE! Edited August 13, 2016 by F4talFr4me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizodd Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Even though they told us they'd be removing duration, only to slap it back on in the inferior form of health decay, I'd honestly be happy if DE just brought back a normal duration on SotD. The constant bleedout is extremely counterproductive for shadows, which are meant to act as meat shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurpgork Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, Burnthesteak87 said: The actual real problem is Shadows' damage and resilience, which haven't been enhanced since Shadows 1.0. The problem with resilience is compounded pretty severely by the health decay. They can't take as much damage as they need to as it is. It really doesn't help for them to additionally lose 3% of their maximum health every second. 7 hours ago, Burnthesteak87 said: So the problem isn't the Health Decay which adds more spice to Nekros' gameplay, it's the Shadows Damage and AI. As I said earlier, the way to spice up a Warframe's gameplay is to give them a diverse toolkit, with abilities that help them in a wide variety of situations. Forcing Nekros to hammer the same key over and over again would only spice up his gameplay in an absolutely artificial manner, and does nothing to make his gameplay more interesting and dynamic. This kind of "gameplay" is exactly why the devs changed Desecrate to a mindless passive. Edited August 13, 2016 by Gurpgork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achromos Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Nekros now feels much more active then before and it doesn't punish a player for wanting to step outside the norm, this benefits both the Nekros user and his team as he can keep Desecrate up, while actively participating in the fight instead of lovingly repeatedly caressing the air in hopes to get better loot. Running a Shield of Shadows build is very rewarding and the Active UI elements will aid a Nekros user in allowing him to see if he is getting the full buff from shield of shadows, while the counter below on his fourth ability (maxed out at 7) will help maintain at a glance if you do or do not have all your shadows summoned yet. First I was rather disappointed in the change to his four, but the main purpose to his four (for me) was: Extra Meat Shields, and a slight bit of Damage. Seeing as DE thankfully gave them a bit of a Aggro pull and made the spawning of enemies smarter, I've found my Nekros's survival went skyward without me having to lovingly hand pick my head shots to snag a nullifier, bombard, or other heavy as it will spawn them thankfully and hold the weaker enemies in a reserve if I ever run out. The energy drain even with min/maxing for Shield of shadows while trying to desperately keep my Power Energy reduction is both a good balance choice and one that will keep Nekros users on their toes but also reward them in being a MVP for the team when everyone is constantly going down without your Summons. However, it is a bit hard to quickly tell how close your Minions are to dying, especially from Decay. Could we get a buff telling us the lowest health% of one of our minions, not all, just the lowest to help gauge it? That would be awesome. In addition to that, can we please... have the energy cost reduced for Teleporting and healing? Maybe a 5% reduction per shadow alive? Something to help Shadows of the Dead Nekros players, please DE? This update has turned a bit of a guilty pleasure build that I had, into a positive team influence without needing to be a dedicated farmer to necessarily get ALL the needed drops. True, a dedicated build to Desecrate is nice, but it's not fully needed as maybe your team might only need you to strap on a Stretch at most as long as they stay within the same room. You have the added benefit of not being rooted in place, not entirely chained to the ground by the needs of your group or even yourself when you go loot hunting. I fully can say that this update, while others may disagree with me and they have every right to (that's how opinions work) I feel like Nekros is now in a good spot, maybe reduce the energy per desecrate by 10% but that's from someone NOT running a Desecrate build and still using Shield of shadows, and actively keeping them up. Arbitrary Score: 7.5/10 Rework DE. Awesome job. Though can we talk about volt... yea, just one sentence. Please Uncap Discharge. Thx. Edited August 13, 2016 by achromos had a idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)His 1st Shadow Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) From what I can tell, everyone honestly shares the same opinion. The only debate that I've seen taking place are actually people discussing two separate points. Overall the main two points are: 1. Nekros received Quality of Life improvements. (Teleporting/healing Highest enemy type shadows/Desecrate toggle) 2. The abilities productivity has been nerfed. (Desecrate costs more and produces less/Less shadows, Less health, more costly due to not being able to allow full duration) Those that are claiming Nekros is more enjoyable are referring to the quality of life. Those that are complaining he's been nerfed are obviously speaking of productivity. My only hope is that the two view points support one another. I believe we can appreciate the QoL while still admitting if the nerfs are unnecessary. No need to downplay either point. From a past build perspective, I can imagine the ease of use and see the benefit. But if my current duration is 30 seconds, shadows shouldn't have health decay until after the 30s has expired. This would allow me to wait the full duration between casts as before without my shadows being at a sliver of health. (Fewer shadows shouldn't cost more and be weaker with less health.) With that, all we need is to be notified when the decay starts and management is sensable. Lastly, Nekros desecrate had 1 cost no matter the body count plus reroll after they disappear with no drop. Since now its more expensive being each corpse cost is separate/guaranteed and the reroll is gone, was the health orb nerf necessary? Edited August 13, 2016 by (XB1)His 1st Shadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tizodd said: Even though they told us they'd be removing duration, only to slap it back on in the inferior form of health decay, I'd honestly be happy if DE just brought back a normal duration on SotD. The constant bleedout is extremely counterproductive for shadows, which are meant to act as meat shields. Or No Decay No duration Nothing. Nothing but maybe a marking System trough SP. You Punch a shadow: it is marked and stays on recast (+ interaction, reduced Power cost etc) You Punch a enemy: priority summon. Evrything else gets recycled on recast. 7 weak enemys that suffer a weak ai don't need fancy limitations. That's all but a result of looking into him on a theoretical Base. I mean the original sotd summoned endless scaling enemys with a 300+% damage buff with a somewhat decent build onto the field...Sounds great right? but Oy, did it ever, EVER feel like it?... They could remove all the BS, change the AI to assist fire and it would still be nothing but a medicore ult in comparance. Edited August 13, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerathos_Dagon Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) I'll comment again in an attempt to help DE come up with idea's for another rework, because Nekros damn well needs to be changed again. Here's what I would suggest for Nekros: * Soul Punch: Really don't have a clue about this one to be honest. It's ok-ish as far as balance goes, but like a lot of other first abilities, it's just kinda meh somehow. I think it's because of the fact it's an iffy single-target ability that doesn't have much impact? Maybe make it an energy projectile that travels in a short line and affects all enemies hit? I dunno. * Terrify: Remove the target cap. Maybe reduce the base duration slightly to compensate, but other than that this abilitty is actually pretty good and almost perfectly balanced. * Desecrate: Man oh man, the new desecrate sucks. Personally I don't like it being a toggled passive and would prefer it to be an active ability again, but I can understand it if that's just me. If it can be an active ability again, make it so you can still move while desecrating (which would grant you a bit of that control you lacked with the old Desecrate). If you have to keep it as a passive, remove - or significantly reduce - the corpse warm-up time.And for the love of RNGesus, in both cases just revert the ridiculous cost-, loot- and health orb nerfs, as well as the corpse auto-consume despite not dropping loot! * Shadows of the Dead: Also ruined. However, just remove the health decay and we're mostly good to go. Fixing the AI and removing the cap on the amount of shadows would be awesome Quality of Life buffs too, but the removal of health decay should be priority #1. Edited August 17, 2016 by Zerathos_Dagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)LoisGordils Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 On 8/10/2016 at 2:45 PM, Dovahheim said: It's more fun and interactive but against the corpus it's not half as good as it used to be. And against the other factions she performs under par compared to most other frames. No way! I always outdamage my team with her. Build her for max range and you will see how powerful she is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)salovel1991 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 20 hours ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said: Or upon being hit he could be dazed from his soul being attacked and be unable to attack for 5-10 seconds, effected by duration, as well as also having an AoE effect that knocks down enemies but only effects them half the duration of the ability. Edit: Also if they got rid of health decay on sotd we would still have two decent reasons, terrify and soul punch, to mod for some duration. ^ This was my idea for soul punch. 1 hour ago, Zerathos_Dagon said: * Soul Punch: Really don't have a clue about this one to be honest. It's ok-ish as far as balance goes, but like a lot of other first abilities, it's just kinda meh somehow. I think it's because of the fact it's an iffy single-target ability that doesn't have much impact? Maybe make it an energy projectile that travels in a short line and affects all enemies hit? I agreed on all your points. The energy drain is too high for a higher chance to fail to desecrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcooc Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Nullifiers. After using 100 energy to use your signature ability, just to see them instantly killed by common enemies no matter how good your build is. Why do they exist? Why would people ever use Nekros Prime? Not because he's a necromancer, but because hes a loot magnet. IF DE seriously wanted nekros to lose the role of loot fodder, they would have actually tested him against 50% of the factions in the game and seen how useless he is in his "role". This does't just affect Nekros. It affects Atlas, Equinox, Chroma, and Inaros. Atlas and Chroma have their ultimate instantly destroyed. Equinox equips an augment to get her summon, just to have it disappear. Seriously, nullifiers are an annoyance for all warframes. But for most frames, ability casts take effect instantly and affect enemies outside the nullifier bubble, so you still benefit from them. For summoners, your summons just run into the nullifier bubble and commit suicide. You are completely neutered as long as there is at least 1 nullifier in a 50m radius. Currently, summons are a gimmick at best, because noone would ever rely on something that flimsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightBlitz Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 its not the abilities that are bad, its the scaling, try looking at it that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 or if shadows are NOT removed, but lose effictiveness when inside nulli`s bubble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeejayPwny Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, Bizzaro21 said: or if shadows are NOT removed, but lose effictiveness when inside nulli`s bubble Maybe make them lose the ability bonus scale (damage and HP modifiers) when in the bubble. Still there, just not as strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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