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When Titania can fly freely, why Zephyr can't?


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18 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

At the very least I want Zephyr to be able to levitate (hover in the air for extended periods of time), to make good use of her gliding ability.

You know, that might actually be possible. We already have that aim dive effect. Maybe she can have a slower version of that without having to actually aim. That would make it easier to aim abilities and the like. Could be a passive thing.

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Why fat birds can fly but skinny snakes can't?

Zephyr controls air, not herself, she can glide but she can't defy gravity. The amount of force she can summon from air is not that great. 

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47 minutes ago, Cenat said:

Why fat birds can fly but skinny snakes can't?

Zephyr controls air, not herself, she can glide but she can't defy gravity. The amount of force she can summon from air is not that great. 

Quite. Zepkyr controls air while Titania obviously controls gravity, thus her build in Archwing systems and ability to compress herself down and nullify gravity on her foes.

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Zephyr will get reworked eventually, but who knows how. i have an idea though:

passive: increased Gun Damage and Accuracy while in mid-air.

Elevate: Zephyr uses new wings made of Void energy to get airborne. while elevated, Zephyr flies like an Archwing, but uses regular weapons. this would be a toggle ability, and she would benefit from her passive as long as Elevate is active.

Kamikaze: Zephyr dives full force into a target, dealing high damage and knocking the target and nearby enemies to the floor. if Zephyr on the ground when casted, she momentarily flies upwards before diving.

Turbulence: should be kept as it is.

Tornadoes: same as before, but now Zephyr can run into the Tornadoes to be sent flying upwards. it would also temporarily increase the speed and damage of her Kamikaze, so a synergy of using Tornado jump, then using Kamikaze would be produced.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

Zephyr will get reworked eventually, but who knows how. i have an idea though:

passive: increased Gun Damage and Accuracy while in mid-air.

Elevate: Zephyr uses new wings made of Void energy to get airborne. while elevated, Zephyr flies like an Archwing, but uses regular weapons. this would be a toggle ability, and she would benefit from her passive as long as Elevate is active.

Kamikaze: Zephyr dives full force into a target, dealing high damage and knocking the target and nearby enemies to the floor. if Zephyr on the ground when casted, she momentarily flies upwards before diving.

Turbulence: should be kept as it is.

Tornadoes: same as before, but now Zephyr can run into the Tornadoes to be sent flying upwards. it would also temporarily increase the speed and damage of her Kamikaze, so a synergy of using Tornado jump, then using Kamikaze would be produced.

make a warframe concept of this

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On 8/13/2016 at 8:08 PM, (PS4)Fac3kick3r_lolz said:

Simply priorities. However, Zephyr was revealed to have a deluxe skin in the works. How much progress its made is unknown though. If they were to revisit Zephyr they might try to time it with the release of her deluxe skin. Try to reinvigorate her fanbase or something.

Well if that were true they would have reworked Oberon with his deluxe skin.

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Ah, it is I, poking my nose in again. Who knew I would? XD

I have a very good idea why Zephyr won't fly. Quite beyond her theme, whether she's a wind caster or a bird frame (why can't she be a bird-shaped air elemental caster?), and even beyond how you'd make it work (I've been convinced that it can, but just not that it should be put in).

It's because to make her actually fly, you would have to add it as an ability, and that ability would add nothing to Zephyr as a warframe. To be precise: a non-flying Zephyr can do anything a flying one could, often better.

Zephyr does need a look over, some tender care, but what she needs most is to have the things her abilities attempt be successful, or to have an ability that allows her to be good at something that isn't just mobility and evasion.

People say 'combine Tailwind and Dive Bomb into one', I agree, then 2 is free for a new ability. People say 'make Tornado work', I agree, limiting how it roams around and fixing the way it scatters everything everywhere like a toddler would greatly improve it as a CC and damage ability. People say 'Turbulence is perfect, don't touch it' I also agree (people say 'it's unreliable', I disagree, it's been finally patched up to spec as of U19, bullet tunnels are no longer a thing).

A new ability... what would people prefer? An active CC cast that encourages her to get range, or lets her throw a bowling-ball down a corridor to knock down enemies? A Team Buff that solidifies her as both a solo survival frame and a team player that is accepted and enjoyed in pub games? An area clear ability that pushes her back (up if she's above it) to give her the option to clear a point or make space to revive a team member? I love all of these suggestions!

Flying adds none of these...

I am fully on board with a change like 'Aim Glide grants five seconds of null gravity' to tack onto her passive, this would play in to other abilities. Like making Aim Gliding into a Tornado funnel boost her upwards like those tubes on the Lua Agility puzzle (for all players! Tenno TRAMPOLINE!!) Those make sense to me, because they don't cost anything, have a balance to them, and play into both her 'large bird can glide and soar' aspect, and her 'air caster can float on the air' aspect.

But please guys, give Zephyr more than flying can offer. Give her a better role, a better ability, something more than yet another mobility function.

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So wait, do people just want her to fly? IF sher just flies like a bird than she cant use any weapons. The only way she would be usefull is that it would use the mechanics of Tail wind and dive bomb that where you aim determines where you go, maybe have her wings channel taht makes you fly faster. Think about it, do you really want a bird that flies but cant use weapons or do you want improved stats? maybe less RNG or maybe a rework to everything. 

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6 minutes ago, GorgontheMorgon said:

So wait, do people just want her to fly? IF sher just flies like a bird than she cant use any weapons. The only way she would be usefull is that it would use the mechanics of Tail wind and dive bomb that where you aim determines where you go, maybe have her wings channel taht makes you fly faster. Think about it, do you really want a bird that flies but cant use weapons or do you want improved stats? maybe less RNG or maybe a rework to everything. 

Only people who actually don't play Zephyr want her to fly.

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6 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Only people who actually don't play Zephyr want her to fly.

I can somewhat agree with that. I really don't care if Zephyr can fly or not. But most people are saying titania is what Zephyr was supposed to be. "Light and decieveingly lethal" and "look up tenno" were the 2 lines lotus says in Zephyr profile vid. But most of the time, Zephyr is on the ground and does no damage. While Titania fulfills Zephyrs description better. "Light and decievely lethal" because she can fly and has 2 exalted weapons probably built to do damage, and "look up tenno" because everything I said above. 

Honestly, I don't really care about flight , but I think she needs a rework atm, as long as they don't touch turbulence :)

 

Edited by (PS4)abb12355
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Make her ult a TOGGLE, and while ulting you ride a minitornado, with some big tornadoes following you on erratic orbits. That would be cool, don't you think? And while on that state her 1 and 2 could do some different stuff, like commanding the tornadoes to rush in front of you a certain distance, then come back in orbit, for the 1. And for the 2, explode in a violent slashing gust, and having some time to reappear near you, or requiring another cast of 1 for instant tornadoes. That would make some cool synergy imho c:

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New passive

Zephyr is lighter and can change directions while in the air, in particularly during bullet jump. 

To elaborate, when I say change directions I basically mean free form gliding, Zephyr gets to keep her momentum much, much better than other Warframes, Since technically anyone can change directions in the air, besides during a bullet jump.

Also at least rework Tail Wind to let Zephyr control the path during air Tail Wind, instead of just an air dash, it would be a quick moment of actual flight, you can turn, to better position for Dive Bomb. 

 

Edited by Casval_Rouge
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My friend had an idea: make tailwind propel you as long as you hold the button (also make it automatically put her slightly in the air when activated). She wouldn't be able to attack normally, maybe you could have her ragdolling and damaging enemies she speeds through thogh. 

Edited by ShikiRen
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IMO aim glid should stop her descent completly. She's already lighter, so it'd be safe to assume that the used energy is sufficient to counter gravity.
Her Tailwind and Dive Bomb are a mess to begin with. Tailwind could be fine as a first, if it had Dive Bombs effect added automaticly when hitting a surface.

Dive Bomb needs a complete replacement. Tornado(s) suffers from the same issue as Hydroids Tentacle Swarm: Enemies become more difficult targets. Additionally tornado isn't that damaging. For this I'd suggest Tornado(s) to draw in bullets and damage enemies caught in it for the expected damage.

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On 12/08/2016 at 6:08 PM, crazyN00b said:

Becouse obviously zephyr is a chicken-themed frame and chickens don't fly, they just can jump really high.

To clarify, chickens can fly. Up to 2 minutes. They rarely bother though, especially domesticated ones. Make zephyr tailwind like fast archwing, but with normal weapons.

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Zephyr's "lightweight" doesn't actually benefit from only oxium components. Remember the experiment with a metal ball and a wooden ball, of the same size but with different weight? They land simultaneously. It also has to do with Zephyr's overall shape.

The thing is, while we can't have levitation like Titania, hovering and stuff, we could have a x5 aim glide stacked on the current passive, have a higher tileset height limit and remove momentum conservation from Tailwind for better control.

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31 minutes ago, Madho said:

Zephyr's "lightweight" doesn't actually benefit from only oxium components. Remember the experiment with a metal ball and a wooden ball, of the same size but with different weight? They land simultaneously. It also has to do with Zephyr's overall shape.

The thing is, while we can't have levitation like Titania, hovering and stuff, we could have a x5 aim glide stacked on the current passive, have a higher tileset height limit and remove momentum conservation from Tailwind for better control.

I dont remember that we made an experiment about this together. Fact is that Zeph is made from metal that is quite light.

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7 minutes ago, ScribbleClash said:

I dont remember that we made an experiment about this together. Fact is that Zeph is made from metal that is quite light.

Galileo's experiment at the Leaning Tower of Pisa proves that sheer lightweight alone does not make an impact on the drop speed. You'll have to consider the shape of the object as well, with air resistance being a crucial factor of reduced falling speed.

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Simply put, Zephyr was made in a time where Parkour 2.0, and Archwing didn't exist.  They had no code to reuse at all, unlike in Titania's case.

I feel like at this point in time, Zephr's Tailwind and Divebomb are mostly irrelevant.  Divebomb has a useful augment, but Tailwind is exceedingly useless in an age where we can fly around at will with any Warframe we please.  I hope that once Zephyr's time for priming comes, we get a much needed Zephyr rework to account for how much the game has changed since U12.

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Might as well ask why some superheros can fly but not others.

It's called an "arbitrary design decision".

Zephyr will NEVER fly like Tinkerbell Pixiepants Titania, because Zephyr can't shrink, and because Titania has to use her ULT to do it.

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I think Titania being a mini-archwing (and thus having full flight) as its unique mechanic is fine. But Zephyr could use SOME changes to her abilities so they feel a bit more elegant, yet remain unique. Here's a thought:

Tail Wind:

* Is now a toggle ability (with low energydrain), which causes her to continuously propel forward, in a rather fast manner. You can steer around freely, but you cannot shoot etc, meanwhile.
* Coming into contact with the environment causes you to cause a spherical shockwave, dealing AoE impact damage and knockdown to nearby enemies (damage=p.strength, AoE=p.range).
* As you are flying around, you also leave slashing winds behind you (damage=p.strength, duration=p.duration, width=p.range).
* Pressing melee during it will cause you to turn straight down and nosedive (thus directly merging it with Dive Bomb). Jumping/crouching will make you fly upwards/downwards, but the downwards flight like this can be cancelled/changed, and is not as fast as the straight down nosedive you get from pressing melee.
* Turning the ability off (or running out of energy etc) will keep your current momentum, so you can use the ability for quick "airbursts" too, like now. That means, doubleclicking the ability is pretty much the same as the current Tail Wind.

Tadaaa! A "freeflight" ability on Zephyr which still manages to feel very different from Titania's ulti (Again: you HAVE to fly forward constantly, no weapons allowed during the flight, you leave slashing winds in your wake, AoE crashlanding). It also lets her have a new #2 ability :)

Edited by Azamagon
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