Fusion Simplified: Part 1

[_Raiklar_]

1 hour ago, DeltaPhantom said:

While you have a point, I think a lot of the difficulty could be cleared up quickly with proper in-game tutorials and guides.

 

At the same time, I feel like using multiple currencies at once isn't the best approach. Maybe if Baro's stock were to cost only Ducats, and Fusion cost only Endo, it would be better. But on the flip side, these are major credit sinks, and in a small way, they serve as a sort of tempering factor: It's much harder to go balls-to-the-wall overboard and do something such as buying dozens of duplicate primed mods to sell because of these sinks.

I agree some what but with the relic system its harder to get prime gear for syndicates and ducat convertion.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

On 15/08/2016 at 3:24 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

I hope you enjoy the [PH] Placeholder copy as much as I did.

https://gfycat.com/MaleLikableHyena

For those wondering about how duplicates are handled, besides what Rebecca already said, the gfy that she posted shows where it will all happen, the placeholder "Melt" button is where you select mods to convert into Endo (because it says so right there).

On another note, I like how Endo seems to use "lower" numbers, because it helps us adapt to the new numeric system, as many of us are used to knowing how many R5 cores certain rarities need to reach R9 or R10, the lower the number the easier it is to figure out how much you need and how much what you have left will allow you to do, higher values would just make it confusing and hard to memorize.

Edited August 18, 2016 by God_is_a_Cat_Girl

[Xekrin]

3 hours ago, Tymerc said:

@[DE]Rebecca So wait will we still be capable of using duplicate mods for fusion or no? 

Way I understand it dup mods can be converted into endo, so technically yes.

[Wandering_Cyberdragoness]

2 hours ago, DeltaPhantom said:

While you have a point, I think a lot of the difficulty could be cleared up quickly with proper in-game tutorials and guides.

 

At the same time, I feel like using multiple currencies at once isn't the best approach. Maybe if Baro's stock were to cost only Ducats, and Fusion cost only Endo, it would be better. But on the flip side, these are major credit sinks, and in a small way, they serve as a sort of tempering factor: It's much harder to go balls-to-the-wall overboard and do something such as buying dozens of duplicate primed mods to sell because of these sinks.

except a lot of people have 13-45mil credits, with the highest i've seen being 113 million. They can do that. It just punishes the rest of us.

[Kracken]

On 15.08.2016 at 4:24 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

It's worth noting here that I am able to fuse up whole ranks by clicking the - / + icons. If I have the resources to do so (Endo and Credits), I can increase my Mod Ranks.

In regards to Credits specifically, they still play a role in Fusion. Currently Credit costs vary depending on the items used to fuse, as you can see here in this example:
 

All of these examples were from fusing the same 3 Rank Rare Augment. The Dev build provides a consistent Credit cost moving forward which is somewhere in the middle of all the current Credit ranges per Mod Rarity/Rank.

Coming soon, indeed!

the cost is somewhat worries me ... for us Players the cost of fusion with rare cores is a "standardized" values from witch we do EVERY calculations. And dev build shows increase in about ~30% of credit cost.

[beckettb]

2 hours ago, Kenshin98 said:

So instead of selling my 2k vacuums, I can convert them to endo? 

 

I got that part though, I've seen the gif. Just concerned about the non max mods I have 

From what i understand, any non maxed mods will be at the same rank.  The only thing that will happen is that and extra fusion energy (partial bar underneath the mod) will be converted to endo. This shouldn't erase partially fused mods, just bring them down to the baseline where the new system can properly fuse them to the next levels.

 

Keep in mind that this is just how I interpret what this thread says.

[horcruxpotter]

On 15/8/2016 at 9:55 AM, DeMonkey said:

Is that an Orokin pokeball?

Confirmed. The Orokin had Pokemon Go in their time. Instead of tablets and smartphones, they used that thing for enhanced player experience.

[Basqui]

@[DE]Rebecca,

With the incoming change, the word "fusion" seems a little not on point anymore IMO because you retain the mod's purpose, only that it grows stronger. Endo, on the other hand, gets "spent" in the process.

Instead, you INFUSE the mods with endo.

Infusion sounds bad too though. derp XD

[tocorro]

On 15.08.2016 at 4:24 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

The following Dev Workshop will go into the simplification of the Fusion System. Read on to learn more about the coming changes and learn about 'ENDO'! As always, all information here is subject to rapid change. Stay updated by checking this thread!

Fusion in Warframe is one of the main systems that encourages investment in your Mod collection and Upgrading your gear. With calculated clicking and collecting, you can take your unranked Mods to top tier performers.

Right now our Fusion system has some confusing elements we’d like to correct.

1) Hidden complexity. There are a lot of under the hood ways to optimize fusion that aren't explained. Aside from the single usage of Fusion Cores, your Duplicate Mod collection can be used to fuse with bonuses for things like matching type, polarities, avoidance of exceeding desired rank, etc.
2) Progress Bar guessing game. There are no clear goals for next Fusion levels, all you're presented with is a bar and it's quite hard to predict how many missions and fuseable items are needed to advance ranks. This leads to a disconnect between cost benefit analysis as no cost presents itself.

It boils down to an overly complex system that has unclear goalposts, and this is something we want to fix.

The coming Fusion simplification will be released in 2 phases:

1) The first phase (coming in August)  maintains the core loop we all know (find Fusion energy and use to rank up Mods), but it's much simpler at the Fusion level.
2) The second (coming later) will be written about in detail once we have assets to share, but essentially it is a more lore-amplifying and collection building version of Fusion.

Diving deep into the quickly approaching first phase introduces us to Endo!

What is Endo? Endo is Fusion energy incarnate. It is the raw resource that powers the process of Upgrading Mods. In essence, Endo serves as the simplifier in all things Fusion. All duplicate Mods can now be simply converted into Endo. Endo will now drop from enemies and missions where Fusion Cores used to.

Fusing with Endo makes the Mod Rank increases clear, as the system now only increases in whole Ranks. Partial upgrading with unclear requirements towards your next rank will no longer exist, and neither will wasted Fusion energy. The UI will tell you exactly how much Endo is needed for the next Rank, which gives you a clear goal to work toward.

Any partial upgrades will be refunded with equivalent Endo - so if you're like me and just haven't fully maxed that Primed Mod yet, your partial fusion won't be wasted. This also means no Fusion energy will be wasted when your Mod is fully maxed. No more eyeballing what Mods or Cores you use to prevent yourself from accidentally using extra.

You can expect this first phase to come in August on PC, and your inventory of Cores will be converted on login! We'll have more information for you closer to launch so you can see the change in action and know what to expect when it hits your inventories.

___

August 17, 8:35 p.m Update:

Hey all!

Just dropping in some visual examples here for everyone and a bit more information on the roll-out of this change.

First, if you recall back in our original Market Rework thread, we discussed offering better Fusion Core packs in the Market (but never did). Since Fusion Cores are going away, we're going to be adding new Endo packs to the Market that are higher Fusion value than the current packs. The current packs yield random results of Fusion Cores, but the upcoming packs will be static guaranteed Endo amounts (the same way our Resource purchases work).

And now, a visual example of new Endo Fusion in gfycat form! I captured this earlier on a older dev build, I hope you enjoy the [PH] Placeholder copy as much as I did.

https://gfycat.com/MaleLikableHyena

It's worth noting here that I am able to fuse up whole ranks by clicking the - / + icons. If I have the resources to do so (Endo and Credits), I can increase my Mod Ranks.

In regards to Credits specifically, they still play a role in Fusion. Currently Credit costs vary depending on the items used to fuse, as you can see here in this example:

All of these examples were from fusing the same 3 Rank Rare Augment. The Dev build provides a consistent Credit cost moving forward which is somewhere in the middle of all the current Credit ranges per Mod Rarity/Rank.

Coming soon, indeed!

Will 528 gold R5 cores converted into Endo will still max out a primed mod?

What will be the conversion rate?

[k05h]

While I totally love the idea of having simpler mod upgrade system I do not like the removal of fusion cores alltogether. 

I really love the different rarities of those fusion cores at the moment and how rewarding collection them ingame can be. When an enemy drops a rare core and you have that golden shimmer on the ground it just feels great. And even at the end of the mission you get different rarities in different amounts. I really enjoy scrolling through my loot. But with the new system we will have just another number next to another ressouce symbol. It feels less like real loot but just another number to grind for. 

[Lactamid]

Only 20% on safeguard?

[pauli133]

On 8/15/2016 at 10:24 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

https://gfycat.com/MaleLikableHyena

It's worth noting here that I am able to fuse up whole ranks by clicking the - / + icons. If I have the resources to do so (Endo and Credits), I can increase my Mod Ranks.

In regards to Credits specifically, they still play a role in Fusion. Currently Credit costs vary depending on the items used to fuse, as you can see here in this example:

While I very much like the new system as previewed, I'd like to point out that the Endo icon looks a lot like the Platinum icon.

[Vilmera]

@[DE]Rebecca

main thing that interesting me is: 210 endo to fully upgrade 3rank mod? what converting ratio b/s/g cores --> endo?

Edited August 18, 2016 by Vilmera

[(PSN)NastyNath74]

I keep seeing devs & players praising the simplification of the new method but since when was modding complicated?

[Wolfnrun]

@[DE]Rebecca Will legandary cores be re-named to legendary endo??? Also, will we be able to downgrade mods?

Edited August 18, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[ENGINEEEEER]

When the credit cost goes up around 15% (14.6% according to my math) from using r5s that's fairly significant for endgame mod leveling. 

When fusion credit costs are in the millions, 15% is huge. I understand the credit cost is lower than leveling with common mods but it would help everyone to just make the credit cost the same as r5s. Changes like this just encourage credit farming which is boring and makes the game less enjoyable. 

[Eldritchsqueaker]

9 hours ago, Valsako-EN- said:

210 Endo for an R3 mod... Ouch. I don't even wanna see R10 then. I'm really hoping the drop rates on Endo are super high if these are the numbers we're looking at.

Let's see... if it's 210 Endo, that's roughly 3 R5 cores as Maxitotito pointed out, soooo...

You need 528 R5 cores to max-rank a legendary mod, so if 70 Endo = 1 R5, then that means 528 x 70, so 36,960 Endo. Just to compare to current core farming, you'd need to be able to get 350 - 700 Endo from a single Excavation on Hieracon or something equal to that amount in that amount of time (because you can get 10 R5 cores in just 3 excavs if you're lucky), and you'd need to be able to get 1,750 - 3,500 from Sorties. If the numbers are lower than this, then this is effectively a nerf to fusion.

I really hope this isn't a nerf, and the Endo gains will be much higher than current core rates to compensate for the much larger number required.

It's not, pretty sure that's already how much it took to upgrade a primed mod.

[(XBOX)FMA Wrath 2069]

1 hour ago, Vilmera said:

@[DE]Rebecca

main thing that interesting me is: 210 endo to fully upgrade 3rank mod? what converting ratio b/s/g cores --> endo?

 

3 hours ago, tocorro said:

Will 528 gold R5 cores converted into Endo will still max out a primed mod?

What will be the conversion rate?

Did some checking and the cost of upgrading a r0 to r1 requires 12 fusion energy which with Endo is 30.

Upgrading from r1 to r2 is 24 fusion energy which with Endo is 60.

Upgrading from r2 to r3 is 48 fusion energy which with Endo is 120.

The Endo values are taken from the video posted.

With this in mind this should mean that means that every Endo should equal 0.4 fusion energy.

With Endo equaling 0.4 fusion energy per Endo and to max a Primed mod requires 16368 fusion energy that means you would need 40,920 Endo to max a Primed mod.

R5 Cores have 62 fusion energy but only use half of that when fusing so at 31 applied fusion energy per r5 core you would get 77.5 Endo.

With this in mind and based on Endo having no decimal point this means the 0.5 would be dropped meaning if you have 500 r5 cores you are losing 250 Endo.

This also means that if Endo has no decimal point then the conversion script would have to be hard coded with values such as r5 core = 77 endo.  This could lead to other problems and another repeated problem such as the keys -> relics dilemma so more information would be appreciated.

Afterthought.

If the 0.4 Endo to fusion energy is correct though however when converting they consider the full 62 fusion energy of a r5 then that would mean that leveling mods would become a good bit easier and would offset any increase in credits fairly.

Edited August 18, 2016 by (XB1)FMA Wrath 2069
added afterthought / removed part

[Wolfnrun]

1 minute ago, (XB1)FMA Wrath 2069 said:

Both [DE] Steve and [DE] Rebecca has stated that Legendary cores will remain.

I said rename not remain 

[Urlan]

Interesting info in the update. I am still interested to know official conversion figures before I can be sure this is a positive or not. Hopefully, this is gravy; but I am unsure with recent updates of course. According to the fan work above, it would seem to just be a matter of consistency but also remove goods like fusion cores from trading. Still interested to hear more.

[(XBOX)FMA Wrath 2069]

3 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said:

I said rename not remain 

Whoops.  Will edit.  I guess I quoted the wrong person.  I remember seeing someone asking the question on if they would stay in the game before making my post :-P

[Moppin44]

New systems sounds great.  When getting new players into the game it has been particularly difficult for me to explain the Fusion system.  On the last new player I coached I just said, "you will figure it out."

Not sure I like the name 'endo'.  

"Hey let's goto Hieracon, I'm running low on Endo."

[(PSN)Xurokhan]

Can someone clarify something for me?

I'm seeing some comments that suggest this new process is going to be more expensive in order to rank up mods.

I see that from a credit only perspective but has DE mentioned anything else about Endo? Will it have lesser value than say, a R5 core? Will it be acquired more frequently than cores? I don't see much of an issue with a rise in credit cost if the fusion energy itself is more readily available. I'm basing this off of my own gameplay but I've had a surplus of ever growing credits for the past 6 months of play because I've got almost next to nothing to spend my credits on at this point, and I think most players will find themselves in a similar situation, eventually.

This looks to be a fantastic rework of the fusion system just as long as DE manages to balance Endo with the rise in of cost of credits.

Edited August 18, 2016 by (PS4)Xurokhan

[TheGrandWarrior]

If the Fusion system is going to be changed...there is a small thing that needs to be addressed.

As per SOTR update, there was this small tidbit

 

[Coming in a near Hotfix:]

  Hide contents

• Gold Fusion Pack: 15 Fusion Cores (14 R5 Rare, 15th has a tiny chance to be Legendary) for 80 Platinum.
• Silver Fusion Pack: 10 Fusion Cores (5 R5 Rare, 5 possible R5 Rares) for 50 Platinum.
• Bronze Fusion Pack: 5 Fusion Cores (3 R5 Rare, 2 Uncommon) for 35 Platinum.

[(XBOX)FMA Wrath 2069]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Xurokhan said:

Can someone clarify something for me?

I'm seeing some comments that suggest this new process is going to be more expensive in order to rank up mods.

I see that from a credit only perspective but has DE mentioned anything else about Endo? Will it have lesser value than say, a R5 core? Will it be acquired more frequently than cores? I don't see much of an issue with a rise in credit cost if the fusion energy itself is more readily available. I'm basing this off of my own gameplay but I've had a surplus of ever growing credits for the past 6 months of play because I've got almost next to nothing to spend my credits on at this point, and I think most players will find themselves in a similar situation, eventually.

This looks to be a fantastic rework of the fusion system just as long as DE manages to balance Endo with the rise in of cost of credits.

Look 5 posts above yours at one of my previous posts...