[The Silver Grove Update] Fusion Simplified Feedback!

[[DE]Danielle]

Hello Tenno! Please use this megathread to post your feedback on the changes to Fusion in today's update, The Silver Grove. 

Fusion Simplified: Part 1 is here!

If you're asking yourself 'Where are my Fusion Cores and what is Endo?", please read this section carefully! This section explains the conversion from a Fusion Core / Duplicate Mod fusion system to the Endo Fusion system. 

Fusion in Warframe is one of the main systems that encourages investment in your Mod collection and Upgrading your gear. With calculated clicking and collecting, you can take your unranked Mods to top tier performers.

With the change to an Endo system we've removed the hidden complexity of Fusion. This Endo Fusion system maintains many aspects of the hold. 

What is Endo? Endo is Fusion energy incarnate. It is the raw resource that powers the process of Upgrading Mods. In essence, Endo serves as the simplifier in all things Fusion. All duplicate Mods can now be simply converted into Endo. Endo will now drop from enemies and missions where Fusion Cores used to be.

Fusing with Endo makes the Mod Rank increases clear, as the system now only increases in whole Ranks. Partial upgrading with unclear requirements towards your next rank will no longer exist, and neither will wasted Fusion energy. The UI will tell you exactly how much Endo is needed for the next Rank, which gives you a clear goal to work toward.
Any partial Mod upgrades before this Update will be refunded with equivalent Endo and Credits.

So how does the conversion actually work? The base conversion is: 

•  5 Endo = 1 Unranked Common Core.
• Fusion Credit Costs are now averaged out since Endo is a static Resource and not skewed by Rarity or Polarity in the same way Mods and Fusion Cores were. 
• No more wasted Fusion Energy exists. Often times you'd Fuse a Mod with a Core and would lose some tail end fusion energy. Static Endo amounts mean this is no longer possible.
•  All Mods can now be Dissolved into Endo. 
• Fusion Core packs in the Market have been replaced with completely repriced Platinum Endo bundles. 

Part 2 is coming soon and will include:

Treasures: discoverable ancient valuables that can be constructed and converted into high Endo quantities. 
Trading of Endo (in the form of Treasures). 
 

Thank you! We hope you enjoy the new Fusion System! :) 

[(XBOX)JoeABroke]

Thank you! I cant wait to see how this will work on console!

[Oranji]

If trading "endo" were to be a thing, can we please not make it as brutal as trading fusion cores?

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by Oranji

[Latiac]

I maxed a Prime heated charge just before the update actually hit. What is life.

[Harloq]

Hope the projection of mods used to max another was kept.

Update: Apparently Fusion Cores now contribute only 25% energy, previously was 50%.

I really hope I'm wrong because if I am right this means that we all lost HALF of our cores.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Harloq
Update

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

Finally a use for all those Ammo Drums! 

Will fusion still cost the same amount of credits? Are you guys thinking to lower that a bit?

[Inarticulate]

38 minutes ago, Latiac said:

I maxed a Prime heated charge just before the update actually hit. What is life.

As best as I can tell from the description, the amount of "fusion energy" necessary to rank up a mod hasn't changed. The only change is that "fusion energy" is now called Endo instead of being a hidden value in Fusion Cores.

As for using duplicates to generate Endo, I'm curious if anyone has the conversion rates so I can see if that has been nerfed or buffed.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Just looked at my Endo value and it seems low.

Can we get some transparency on what we had and what it equals to now. I had thousands of cores of all shapes and sizes and have a total of 100,000 endo.

[Sonicbullitt]

1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Hello Tenno! Please use this megathread to post your feedback on the changes to Fusion in today's update, The Silver Grove. 

Fusion Simplified: Part 1 is here!

If you're asking yourself 'Where are my Fusion Cores and what is Endo?", please read this section carefully! This section explains the conversion from a Fusion Core / Duplicate Mod fusion system to the Endo Fusion system. 

Fusion in Warframe is one of the main systems that encourages investment in your Mod collection and Upgrading your gear. With calculated clicking and collecting, you can take your unranked Mods to top tier performers.

With the change to an Endo system we've removed the hidden complexity of Fusion. This Endo Fusion system maintains many aspects of the hold. 

What is Endo? Endo is Fusion energy incarnate. It is the raw resource that powers the process of Upgrading Mods. In essence, Endo serves as the simplifier in all things Fusion. All duplicate Mods can now be simply converted into Endo. Endo will now drop from enemies and missions where Fusion Cores used to be.

Fusing with Endo makes the Mod Rank increases clear, as the system now only increases in whole Ranks. Partial upgrading with unclear requirements towards your next rank will no longer exist, and neither will wasted Fusion energy. The UI will tell you exactly how much Endo is needed for the next Rank, which gives you a clear goal to work toward.
Any partial Mod upgrades before this Update will be refunded with equivalent Endo and Credits.

So how does the conversion actually work? The base conversion is: 

•  5 Endo = 1 Unranked Common Core.
• Fusion Credit Costs are now averaged out since Endo is a static Resource and not skewed by Rarity or Polarity in the same way Mods and Fusion Cores were. 
• No more wasted Fusion Energy exists. Often times you'd Fuse a Mod with a Core and would lose some tail end fusion energy. Static Endo amounts mean this is no longer possible.
•  All Mods can now be Dissolved into Endo. 
• Fusion Core packs in the Market have been replaced with completely repriced Platinum Endo bundles. 

Part 2 is coming soon and will include:

Treasures: discoverable ancient valuables that can be constructed and converted into high Endo quantities. 
Trading of Endo (in the form of Treasures). 
 

Thank you! We hope you enjoy the new Fusion System! :) 

I had about 1000+ fusion cores including 200+ rare ones, that  converted was about 30k endo, 20k which of is needed to fuse a second before maxed primed flow to max rank. This number just seems like too little to me, I feel we should have gotten much more Endo for our cores. With how many cores I had, I feel that I would only need to use half of those 1k+ fusion cores to get primed flow to max rank. 

I like the new system, however I can't help feel the numbers for the conversion are a little off , I really hope DE took in the rarity of the cores into account. Right now it just feels like I got less value out of my cores than what I would usually have before this update , I hope I am wrong, but right now I just can't shake the feeling that this system is straight up worser than the previous one, even if it makes fusing easier.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Sonicbullitt

[Peacemuser]

Doesn't it also somewhat feel as if the credit cost also got more expensive?

[Sci_Ant]

Had close to 1500 Common, 500 Uncommon and 500 Rare Cores. I have 84.5k Endo now. I'm not sure about this. I need to see a chart with all the endo conversion quantities to confirm if the conversion has been done correctly. Please DE, help us help you.

[Lichcontract]

I had ~200 rs 70 uncommons and 300 commons. I think they lowered the fusion core conversion rate because they expect us to use the duplicates? I'd assume duplicate conversion rate is increased? I haven't downloaded the update yet unfortunately.

EDIT: I got 27,734 Endo from the conversion.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Lichcontract
My number of endo from conversion

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

By the way I forgot to ask. Where does this leave Legendary Cores?

[Sonicbullitt]

25 minutes ago, Peacemuser said:

Doesn't it also somewhat feel as if the credit cost also got more expensive?

yes it it does,  it takes nearly mill to max a rank 10 mod, "balanced price of fusing because cause rarity of cores was removed" my a ss

Edited August 19, 2016 by Sonicbullitt

[BroPyp]

Just now, Sonicbullitt said:

yes it it does,  it takes nearly mill to max a rank 10 mod, "balanced price of fusing because cause rarity of cores was removed" my &#!

Think the credit cost is the same. And I do remember it taking a lot more than 1 million to max an R10 mod. 

[Sonicbullitt]

Just now, BroPyp said:

Think the credit cost is the same. And I do remember it taking a lot more than 1 million to max an R10 mod. 

I mean from one rank to max not from the start at rank 1 , I am sorry but it was not nearly 1 mill for that .

[Lichcontract]

3 minutes ago, BroPyp said:

Think the credit cost is the same. And I do remember it taking a lot more than 1 million to max an R10 mod. 

Nope. I just did a fusion from rank 6 to rank 10 of a legendary mod and it cost 1,731,072 credits + 35840 Endo, whereas, before it would only cost 1.6 mill from rank 0 to max + 528 r5 cores. The conversion rate of cores and credit balance is definitely wrong on this patch.

http://prnt.sc/c7vhsb

Edited August 19, 2016 by Lichcontract
Adding my picture of fusion

[Sonicbullitt]

5 minutes ago, Lichcontract said:

Nope. I just did a fusion from rank 6 to rank 10 of a legendary mod and it cost 1,731,072 credits + 35840 Endo, whereas, before it would only cost 1.6 mill from rank 0 to max + 528 r5 cores. The conversion rate of cores and credit balance is definitely wrong on this patch.

http://prnt.sc/c7vhsb

I knew I was right , the credit cost has gone up for sure , so far this new system has potential but the numbers side of it isn't looking very good , DE need to pick up on this fast, or else the forums are gonna get flooded with salt soon, and for god reason too.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Sonicbullitt

[BroPyp]

33 minutes ago, Sci_Ant said:

Had close to 1500 Common, 500 Uncommon and 500 Rare Cores. I have 84.5k Endo now. I'm not sure about this. I need to see a chart with all the endo conversion quantities to confirm if the conversion has been done correctly. Please DE, help us help you.

Seems about right actually. Here is what I have calculated in a nutshell based on info from devstream:

1x R5 = 77.5 Endo -->> 500 * 77.5 = 38750 Total Endo

1x U5 = 38.75 Endo -->> 500 * 38.75 = 19375 Total Endo

1x Common = 19.375 Endo -->> 1500 * 19.375 = 29062.5 Total Endo

 

So if you had 1500 Common, 500 Uncommon, 500 Rare, then you should have about:

38750 + 19375 + 29062.5 =  87187.5, would probably be rounded

 

You mentioned you had close to 1500, 500 Uncommon, and 500 rare, so take a few thousand out of that due to uncertainty and it does seem like you actually do have the amount of Endo you should. Correct me if I have calculated that out wrong.

[CorvusTheHeretic]

Hieracon now awards 15 Endo on excavation. This is an equivalent of one bronze core. Before it used to drop 5 R5 cores, which in translation would mean 400 Endo.

Same sitution with all missions, that used to give golden core packs at least. It gives about 26 times less than it used to. Im almost certain it is a bug.

Edited August 19, 2016 by CorvusTheHeretic

[Sonicbullitt]

1 minute ago, CorvusTheHeretic said:

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Hieracon now awards 15 Endo on excavation. This is an equivalent of one bronze core. Before it used to drop 5 R5 cores, which in translation would mean 400 Endo.

Same sitution with all missions, that used to give golden core packs at least. It gives about 26 times less than it used to. Im almost certain it is a bug.

I sure hope it is , right now the amount of endo is just too low

[BroPyp]

1 minute ago, CorvusTheHeretic said:

Hieracon now awards 15 Endo on excavation. This is an equivalent of one bronze core. Before it used to drop 5 R5 cores, which in translation would mean 400 Endo.

Same sitution with all missions, that used to give golden core packs at least. It gives about 26 times less than it used to. Im almost certain it is a bug.

Oh yes, that is without a doubt a bug. It's without so much of a doubt that I told Rebecca about this via /w to her while stream was up, so at some point you will see they have addressed this problem when you can watch the recorded devstream. 

I also made a thread about this here. Looks like DE are on top of this at the moment. Fingers crossed.

[WhyNotBro]

So, now maximization of primed mode costs 2 millions credits? Not good -_-  I've found 1.5 millions such an expensive pleasure already. Bad to be poor, indeed.

I have a question! How is this simplier, if the player has to pay more credits after all? Explain please. No, don't say it is an average number. It shouldn't be. We use r5 cores for the fusion for a reason, you know. And now...now i have to pay more. Why?

 

[RiouHotaru]

That's definitely a bug, but the conversion rate isn't.  They even said in stream it's something like 32 for an r5?

[Peacemuser]

I did some observations and it also looks like they also increased the fusion cost.

Before, R0 uncommon fusion cores had 8 energy, but used only 50% of the energy when fusing because of the polarity. A Legendary mod would cost 16 energy to rank it up by one level. Therefore, you would need 4 R0 uncommon fusion cores to rank it up previously.

Currently, each R0 uncommon fusion core equates to 5 endo. However, it now costs 40 endo to Rank the same Legendary Mod by one rank, which now requires 8 transfers of R0 uncommon cores. In other words, they might have accidentally doubled the grind. 

Oddly enough, an unranked common mod provides 5 Endo, while an uncommon mod gives 10, which is more than an unranked uncommon fusion core.

Misread the text: It was actually 5 Endo per unranked common mod.

However, the slight upside is that duplicate mods do not suffer the 25% reduction to energy efficiency when fusing with other mods of different type and polarity. Endo also drops quite commonly in bundles of 15. Not sure if it's affected by resource boosters.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Peacemuser