Relic system is different

[Slaviar]

36 minutes ago, WolfTitan said:

I agree with you that it's not a good solution, but it sure was better than the grind introduced by this new system.

As least we could sell the excess prime parts for Baro, but prime parts are hard to come by nowadays, given the lack of motivation that players have in repeating the same mission objective of farming new Relics and getting 10 reactants.

Can you honestly say doing multiple long Surv/Def/Int was better? I feel like amount of grind remains similar, though slightly less with relics.

Yeah, sure, same is happening with relics. Difference is relic has 6 parts. Once you have relic and refine it you may have up to 4 RNG rolls. In ten minutes! 4 rolls for truly rare parts (read: those on T3&4 rotations C) took few times that amount. True, you only get one item per run. But from my experience- and I doubt it was only mine- majority of drops received from rotation C was worthless junk. It didn't even fetch a decent ducat price.

And I really don't think prime parts are much rarer. I think it's safe to say majority of players, especially vets, had most of Primes so they didn't farm that much. I'm pretty sure once we're done farming Nekros and his toys we'll find ourselves sitting on mountains of parts.

23 minutes ago, Kaokasalis said:

Im honestly surprised people are only just now complainging about this. We have known this would happen since the vaulting of Mag Prime.

Because they no longer have stacks of relics converted from their keys. I can't stop thinking it's only reason for majority of compliants

[(XBOX)Rey Za BurreI]

I'm honestly probably going to quit. I can't deal with this relic crap. Liek seriously, you have to farm these "new relics". The grind was already bad enough, now you need a specific relic to get parts? Like I don't understand this? I rather have the old void system back. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

People are complaining because the new relic system adds way more grind, despite DE telling us there would be less, and the trade off was supposedly that it would reduce drop tablet dilution (no more constantly getting forma and parts you don't need) and the need to vault prime gear.

Instead we got a lot more grind added with no real benefits to speak of. That's why people are complaining.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

39 minutes ago, (XB1)Rey Za BurreI said:

I'm honestly probably going to quit. I can't deal with this relic crap. Liek seriously, you have to farm these "new relics". The grind was already bad enough, now you need a specific relic to get parts? Like I don't understand this? I rather have the old void system back. 

I feel the same, i want to play "insert any grindless game here"

[anikj2020]

Grind will never go away!

It will just be molded in new forms to create an illusion is all :(

[5HV3N]

Noone expects grind to go away.

But they overdid it with reducing the grind recently with fissures, credits and endo.

[Zebiko]

2 hours ago, K0bra said:

For free right away? WTF are you talking about.Dont you remember the thousands of threads about RNG?How was that "for free right away"? Do and did we play the same game? Some people here ....

In the old system, people could start getting parts right away without grinding for more keys. Now you have to grind for the new relics before starting to grind for the parts. Both have rng... Grand master lol

[Kyronz]

4 hours ago, pauli133 said:

 

 

It's pretty clear you don't know what that term means.

Agreed, relic system is meant to increase grind in the hope that players will give up and buy items instead of farming for them.   

Buying the items is not required if you are willing to put up with the frustration of the increased grind.

[Marvelous_A]

Here's how the new void works:

1. You grind for the relics so you can grind for the parts (Really? Grind for a ticket to another grindwall?)

2. You grind for the traces so you can hopefully grind less (Yeah f@ck logic)

3. Grind the same fissure misson repeatedly for the parts

4. When next new primes come out you have to repeat the previous steps because there are new set of relics.

Despite the fact that the old void is a grindhell, I can't actually see how the new void is better

Edited August 24, 2016 by Marvelous_A

[Slaviar]

22 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Here's how the new void works:

1. You grind for the relics so you can grind for the parts (Really? Grind for a ticket to another grindwall?)

Yeah, we never had to grind for keys.

Oh wait...

23 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

2. You grind for the traces so you can hopefully grind less (Yeah f@ck logic)

Yeah, majority of rare parts had 10% drop chance.

Oh wait...

24 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

3. Grind the same fissure misson repeatedly for the parts

Yeah, we never had to grind same mission repeatedly.

Oh wait...

25 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

4. When next new primes come out you have to repeat the previous steps because there are new set of relics.

Yeah, we never had to grind for more keys.

OH wait...

26 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Despite the fact that the old void is a grindhell, I can't actually see how the new void is better

I... Just can't comprehend it. You really believe doing multiple 60 wave defences was better? New system is grindfest as well, I fully agree on that. But how can you say that terrible old system was better is really beyond me. It's first Prime in long time I know I will attempt to farm now. I know RNG will screw me. I know I'll have to grind for relics. But at least I won't be forced into defence, game mode I hate with passion. And Hieracon isn't only source of relics.
Gathering traces for one radiant takes less than 20 mins and you can get up to 4 dice rolls. In one few minutes long run you essentially do 4 rotations C. True, you only get one item per run. But how often you've seen something good drop more than once in old survival/def/int runs?

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

I approve of this new system. Is it grindy?Yes, but it's supposed to be. Don't want to grind? Get PA. This makes sense from a business perspective. They want PA to sell. My guess is PA hasn't sold very well in a while because it wasn't hard for people to just hit the ground running and getting those new primes. But now you have actively work towards it. 

Although I do see where a lot of the salt is coming from. The community has been spoiled by the old system. And now since they can't get their new shiny prime in a day's worth (or less) of playtime they cry. 

Think about it this way. 

Did you like the Second Dream? Do you want to see more cinematic quests? Well they gotta pay their writers, designers, animators somehow.

Does that mean you HAVE to buy PA? No. It just means it's gonna take a bit more effort on your part to get it for free.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan said:

I approve of this new system. Is it grindy?Yes, but it's supposed to be. Don't want to grind? Get PA. This makes sense from a business perspective. They want PA to sell. My guess is PA hasn't sold very well in a while because it wasn't hard for people to just hit the ground running and getting those new primes. But now you have actively work towards it. 

Although I do see where a lot of the salt is coming from. The community has been spoiled by the old system. And now since they can't get their new shiny prime in a day's worth (or less) of playtime they cry. 

Think about it this way. 

Did you like the Second Dream? Do you want to see more cinematic quests? Well they gotta pay their writers, designers, animators somehow.

Does that mean you HAVE to buy PA? No. It just means it's gonna take a bit more effort on your part to get it for free.

Time ago "business =/= DE"

Now is "business...=

I cant, i just cant, is sad.

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

5 minutes ago, Kaiser_Suoh said:

Time ago "business =/= DE"

Now is "business...=

I cant, i just cant, is sad.

At the end of the day DE is a business. And if a business wants to stay afloat and keep creating content they have to make money. Like I tell people, DE may be one of the better developers when it comes to community interaction, but they aren't your best friend. They need to make money, just like anybody else. Warframe may be one of the more fairer FTP games on the market, but it's still a FTP game that needs to make money somehow.

Edited August 24, 2016 by (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan

[(PSN)beberonnie123]

my only problem is that the relics are hard to equip its crazy i do not know how equip with a team 

[Marvelous_A]

2 hours ago, Slaviar said:

-snip-

So your points basically prove my argument: the new void system at least, is no way better than the old one. We still have to grind for keys, grind the same mission, the drop chance is still BS even after you farm for traces. The time we spent on endless mission just transfer to more intense relic farming. And here we don't even count the time for you to farm new relics every time a whole new set of relics come out, while in old system you can save your key for the next Prime. The difference is, endless mission rewards you Prime stuff and Formas, and relic farming gives you...what? Credit caches? Endo? Relics you may not need? Maybe some useless mods after the recent update? In the new void system the Relic-Prime stuff efficiency is much lower than in the old system. 4 relics for a team for 1 prime part versus 1 key for a team for 1 prime part. The new one is not better than the old one, and arguably worse. It isn't rocket science.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Marvelous_A

[Hypernaut1]

i think DE is still trying to recover from the syndicate key packs inflation from a year ago when everyone stocked up on 100s of t4 keys. 

[Vyra]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Rey Za BurreI said:

I'm honestly probably going to quit. I can't deal with this relic crap. Liek seriously, you have to farm these "new relics". The grind was already bad enough, now you need a specific relic to get parts? Like I don't understand this? I rather have the old void system back. 

well if more people leave maybe DE will change.
its clearly right now that almost nobody like the new system

[Slaviar]

7 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

So your points basically prove my argument: the new void system at least, is no way better than the old one.

I don't believe they do.

7 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

We still have to grind for keys, grind the same mission, the drop chance is still BS even after you farm for traces. The time we spent on endless mission just transfer to more intense relic farming.

And I've never said relics aren't very grindy. In fact I said they are.

7 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

And here we don't even count the time for you to farm new relics every time a whole new set of relics come out, while in old system you can save your key for the next Prime.

So your problem is you can't stockpile on keys. Indeed, it can be an issue though I myself don't find it to be one. You had to grind for keys anyway. Now you just do it when Prime is out, not before. And you can stockpile on Syndicate medallions.

8 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

The difference is, endless mission rewards you Prime stuff and Formas, and relic farming gives you...what? Credit caches? Endo? Relics you may not need? Maybe some useless mods after the recent update?

I would say endless missions are more comparable to traces farms. So yeah, they do reward you Prime stuff and Formas.

Beside, there is no such thing as "relic you don't need". You use relics which don't contain what you want to farm aforementioned traces.

8 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

In the new void system the Relic-Prime stuff efficiency is much lower than in the old system. 4 relics for a team for 1 prime part versus 1 key for a team for 1 prime part.

Indeed, efficiency is lower. Though drop chances are (from what I've seen) improved so I guess it kind of evens out. With exception of rare part other four are fairly easy to get.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

13 hours ago, Slaviar said:

Can you honestly say doing multiple long Surv/Def/Int was better?

Yes. Even if doing A survival to 40 minutes took the same amount of grind it takes to get and run a radiant, I at least used to walk away with 8 items versus just the one. And if I multiplied that by 4 people with a key that was 32 items versus just one under the new system. So yeah, the old system was honestly better, by insane amounts, actually.

[Slaviar]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Yes. Even if doing A survival to 40 minutes took the same amount of grind it takes to get and run a radiant, I at least used to walk away with 8 items versus just the one. And if I multiplied that by 4 people with a key that was 32 items versus just one under the new system. So yeah, the old system was honestly better, by insane amounts, actually.

You need 4+ runs to get traces so you leave with similar amount of parts.

And cool you've enjoyed doing same 40 mins survival four times in a row. I didn't.

[DeerioJim]

The thing I dont understand about all these Nekros prime and relic threads popping up is why didnt they happen anywhere near as much when Mag p was vaulted and the new relics for Vauban prime came out. This is literary the same thing. We all knew it would be like this. Because it had already happened. 

[_Remi_]

Not entirely true... when your void keys were converted, some where converted into those that contained Mag's parts and other primes for that time. Now its come to surface cause no void keys are around to be converted into the new relics :P

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

7 hours ago, Slaviar said:

You need 4+ runs to get traces so you leave with similar amount of parts.

And cool you've enjoyed doing same 40 mins survival four times in a row. I didn't.

Except, if you are using a relic on those missions then you are wasting a relic, and if you are not using one all you are getting is traces and no item. Not to mention if you are using relics for Ducat fodder for those 4 runs you also have to spend that much more time farming replacements.

Meanwhile, you could get that many items and more in a fraction of the time using a single void key.

[Kyronz]

18 hours ago, (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan said:

At the end of the day DE is a business. And if a business wants to stay afloat and keep creating content they have to make money. Like I tell people, DE may be one of the better developers when it comes to community interaction, but they aren't your best friend. They need to make money, just like anybody else. Warframe may be one of the more fairer FTP games on the market, but it's still a FTP game that needs to make money somehow.

Always been a business but what we have seen in the last major update is that DE is desperate for cash atm, which only they know why and is really not any of our business.

The fact that they are increasing grinds and player frustration in order to get that payoff is more then a bit worrisome.   I have seen players come back to check out the new update, play for a few days and just quit over the increased grind mechanics, so it would see they are betting heavily on new players and not very much on player retention.

[WolfTitan]

10 minutes ago, Kyronz said:

I have seen players come back to check out the new update, play for a few days and just quit over the increased grind mechanics, so it would see they are betting heavily on new players and not very much on player retention.

That describes me perfectly. It's too bad I only play Sorties now, since it has more variety and challenge than everything else that Warframe has to offer. I have all frames except Nekros Prime, but getting it requires way too much grindwork, and so I haven't even begun to try to get the new Relics, let alone traces.

Before this new system, I prayed for platinum coupons, and I would spend some when I got them. But I haven't spent any this year even with 2 x 75% coupons because the game has been heading towards grind-finity and slow-finity.

Grind-finity?

• New relic system
• High Baro costs
• Increasing resource cost of new weapons

Slow-finity?

• Nerfed frame speed (can no longer jump + accelerate)
• Nerfed frame powers
• Removal of deception missions
• Reduction of capture missions
• Changing excavation missions to increase the time it takes to get the same reward

I have just been disappointed over and over ever since the Second Dream Quest. Each patch/hotfix has been to restrict the fast-paced nature of the game and to increase grind.

Edited August 24, 2016 by WolfTitan