Relic system is different

[Slaviar]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Except, if you are using a relic on those missions then you are wasting a relic, and if you are not using one all you are getting is traces and no item. Not to mention if you are using relics for Ducat fodder for those 4 runs you also have to spend that much more time farming replacements.

Meanwhile, you could get that many items and more in a fraction of the time using a single void key.

Wasting a relic? Farming replacement? Excuse me?
There are relics which drop more commonly. On every relic farm you see them anyway. So sorry, no relics getting wasted.

And with good team majority of fissures can be done in less than 4 minutes. At the moment my Focus takes 4 minutes 30 seconds to charge. And I rarely if ever see it charged to 75% while I've opened relic and completed objective. In pub matches. With exception of captures no mission could be done that quick. And with exception of endless and sabotage you were getting one item anyway. And majority of time most drops were junk. Lex parts, cores, orokin cells, formas. I've seen it all on T3S. At least now when I finish refining relic and get common drop I didn't just spend 60 mins in survival. Sure, you'll tell me I've spent similar amount of time. Maybe. But not in one mission. On my way to that radiant I did Hieracon, ran some fissures, potentially getting some nice stuff, and finally teamed up and did 4x radiant run. And even though I have common drop my teammate could get better roll and we all happily choose rare part we were after. Because what you seem to ignore is in four man team you challenge RNG four times. You leave with only one item but you just did four rotations C

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

28 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

Wasting a relic? Farming replacement? Excuse me?

Go back an reread my post if it was confusing for you.

[Slaviar]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Go back an reread my post if it was confusing for you.

1 hour ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Except, if you are using a relic on those missions then you are wasting a relic, and if you are not using one all you are getting is traces and no item. Not to mention if you are using relics for Ducat fodder for those 4 runs you also have to spend that much more time farming replacements.

Meanwhile, you could get that many items and more in a fraction of the time using a single void key.

I've reread it few times before posting.

I still fail to understand.

Yes, it's a waste.. if it is relic containing freshly released Primes.

Otherwise?

You are burning through supply of relic acquired by key conversion and, in the future, by grinding new relics

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

4 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

I still fail to understand.

You need void traces to get be able to make a relic radiant, yes? So if we assume you want the best reward every time then you need to make relic radiant before hand. Near as I can tell, there is no way to get void traces outside of fissure missions.

Ergo, to avoid wasting relics you need to waste time farming fissure missions without a relic.

Alternatively, you can get Ducat Trash on the mods, but you only get one per relic.  That means compared to the old system, you waste more time farming for relics because 1 relic = 1 item, whereas under the old system, you could get essentially infinite items from a single key.

You can say it doesn't matter because you are burning through items that used to be keys, but that is a poor argument because they won't last forever. The new system needs to be able to stand on it's own because those converted keys have limited quantities.

[Slaviar]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

You need void traces to get be able to make a relic radiant, yes? So if we assume you want the best reward every time then you need to make relic radiant before hand. Near as I can tell, there is no way to get void traces outside of fissure missions.

Ergo, to avoid wasting relics you need to waste time farming fissure missions without a relic.

Alternatively, you can get Ducat Trash on the mods, but you only get one per relic.  That means compared to the old system, you waste more time farming for relics because 1 relic = 1 item, whereas under the old system, you could get essentially infinite items from a single key.

You can say it doesn't matter because you are burning through items that used to be keys, but that is a poor argument because they won't last forever. The new system needs to be able to stand on it's own because those converted keys have limited quantities.

You do know that even intact relics have chance to drop something good?

Yeah, you could get infinite parts from one endless key. I agreed on that already. Would you kindly stopped ignoring that majority of drops you received in a process were trash?

And yes, we are at the moment burning through keys made relics. I don't think many players farmed any significant amounts of relics simply because there was no reason to. Only after one-two primes we'll be able to tell how different it is.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

5 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

You do know that even intact relics have chance to drop something good?

It's like 2%.

7 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

Yeah, you could get infinite parts from one endless key. I agreed on that already. Would you kindly stopped ignoring that majority of drops you received in a process were trash?

That's the point. Either 1 they were not trash, and you left the mission, or 2 they were trash and you kept going an basically got additional Ducats at no cost.

8 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

Only after one-two primes we'll be able to tell how different it is.

No, simple common sense and critical thinking is more than enough to know how things will play out under the current system.

[Slaviar]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

It's like 2%.

And there are commons* with better chance.

19 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

That's the point. Either 1 they were not trash, and you left the mission, or 2 they were trash and you kept going an basically got additional Ducats at no cost.

And they were so funny... not. Yeah, I know it's subjective but it was extremely repetitive. I myself prefer to have less trash and better chance to get what I want.

19 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

No, simple common sense and critical thinking is more than enough to know how things will play out under the current system.

We'll see about it, shall we?

Edited August 24, 2016 by Slaviar
*uncommons

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

2 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

And they were so funny... not. Yeah, I know it's subjective but it was extremely repetitive. I myself prefer to have less trash and better chance to get what I want.

This could have been achieved by literally just raising the drop rates on keys.  The new system does nothing but increase grind pointlessly.

[Slaviar]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

This could have been achieved by literally just raising the drop rates on keys.  The new system does nothing but increase grind pointlessly.

On endless key supply was never a problem

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

3 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

On endless key supply was never a problem

I wasn't talking about key supply. I was talking about raising the drop rates for the items the keys gave you.

[Slaviar]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I wasn't talking about key supply. I was talking about raising the drop rates for the items the keys gave you.

Similarly, devs could raise traces drops. Or relic drops.

Main issue for me was running same missions against same faction at same tile all over again. Now it's partially helped- I still run same missions (fissures and relic farms) but at least only endless I have to do is excavation and tiles and factions change

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

11 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

Similarly, devs could raise traces drops. Or relic drops.

Main issue for me was running same missions against same faction at same tile all over again. Now it's partially helped- I still run same missions (fissures and relic farms) but at least only endless I have to do is excavation and tiles and factions change

It won't fix the issue because 1 relic = 1 drop.

[Slaviar]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

It won't fix the issue because 1 relic = 1 drop.

Sigh.

It's not an issue

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, Slaviar said:

Sigh.

It's not an issue

It is an issue. I have already explained to you multiple times why it is an issue. If you can't understand that then that is your problem, but that doesn't stop it from being an issue.

If you are just going to say that it is not again then don't even bother replying to me.

[Slaviar]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

It is an issue. I have already explained to you multiple times why it is an issue. If you can't understand that then that is your problem, but that doesn't stop it from being an issue.

If you are just going to say that it is not again then don't even bother replying to me.

Oh, trust me, I too feel like banging my head against the wall.

Then Captures were issue? Exterminates? I swear, if you say keyshare...

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

43 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

Oh, trust me, I too feel like banging my head against the wall.

Then Captures were issue? Exterminates? I swear, if you say keyshare...

They never really seemed to be an issue for me. For example a key capture could be completed in a fraction of the time it takes to do a relic capture.

Also, don't forget, this entire conversation is about endless missions.

Edited August 25, 2016 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Slaviar]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

They never really seemed to be an issue for me. For example a key capture could be completed in a fraction of the time it takes to do a relic capture.

Indeed, from old void missions captures were least problematic. Quick and fairly reliable- I don't recall any cores there, worst you could get on T2+ was forma . Though T3&4 were pain to farm

[(PSN)killerfin2000]

This relic thing is good and bad idea. How about those vaulted primes, when they gonna "open" the vault we get new relics to grind and we got month to get those relics right?