Suggestion To Make Archwing Missions "On" Planets

[Dijn11]

Straight to the point: What if we had archwing missions that took place that weren't in space, but at lower altitudes?

Titania already floats around archwing-style during regular missions; we could go all the way and have the actual archwing zooming around planet-surface missions.

 

[------Solo------]

You mean archwing missions at the stratosphere? 

[LordBeeBrain]

I just want on foot to archwing transitions in more missions, like they said we were going to get forever ago.. ;-;

[Aenris]

You mean like flying over the planet surface and fighting grineer/corpus ships?

Or something like using archwing in maps like the Earth forests?

I'd like something in any of those styles. It might spawn new interesting units to fight. Also, we could have transitions like in Jordas, with certain sections jumping into archwing.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Arandabido

[NobleParadox96]

21 minutes ago, xZetsumeix said:

I just want on foot to archwing transitions in more missions, like they said we were going to get forever ago.. ;-;

they kinda have that on uranus except it's sharkwing... but yea...

[OniDax]

Dude!!! I was gonna put this up. This is exactly what Archwing needs.

You know, I think the big reason why Archwing isn't popular is because it's not what we expect when we see a space fighter mode. Look at popular space/jet fighter games. Besides the standard aircraft flight model, the most common thing you'll see in games like Rogue Squadron, Battlefront, Battlefield, etc, is that the gameplay is fundamentally a dogfight. Archwing isn't that. And because it isn't a dogfight, it doesn't have the thrilling, high-speed, high risk gameplay that comes along with a dogfighting game mode.

Now, I know Warframe players hate the idea of a traditional space fighter game mode. Because DE hasn't suggested anything like that, they feel like they have to be against such an idea because to be in support of such an idea is to be against DE.

That's a bunch of crap, honestly. DE doesn't even consider that possibility because DE has a very limited vision, and they don't think big. It's why everything they make is a half-done job. It's why they constantly do mediocre work. They're used to doing the bare minimum when it comes to creative work. So it's up to fans to bring forth suggestions that could expand the game.

That said, there are several benefits to Warframe having a proper space fighter game mode (centered around dogfighting gameplay) that Archwing does not offer: 

1) First of all, there is the inherent challenge of having to fly towards your target to shoot and destroy them. You can't hover and shoot them. You can fly forward while shooting behind you. You fly at them shooting, and if you don't get them, then you've got to fly around and come back towards them.

2) There's inherent challenge in fighting and evading enemies in a dogfight. Everyone is trying to take down someone else. You can't hover and mow down several targets at once. You've got to isolate one target and pursue them until you take them down. You also have to worry about someone else targeting you and pursuing you, particularly if the space craft can lock on to you. Despite being surrounded by allies and enemies, you're forced (by the nature of the flight model and game mode) to focus on only one enemy, and you move from enemy to enemy as you individually pursue them and take them down.

This creates thrilling and challenging gameplay in its own right. By having to focus on one enemy, you essentially have a recurring goal: take down your enemy before another enemy takes you down. Each success is satisfying. Each evasion of a pursuing enemy is satisfying. And the more enemies and allies you have, the greater the chances that you could even be pursued by more than one enemy. But it's gameplay that has proven to be popular and successful, bringing thrilling gameplay that is based on real life.

3) Such a gameplay mode can easily be translated to PvP. Let's face it: PvP is dying in Warframe. DE has been trying to come up with new modes to breath new life into Conclave, and each one has failed. First it was the original Conclave. That wasn't popular, so they introduced the dojo duels. That lasted for a while, but was limited to clans. They tried reworking Conclave, adding in new maps and new modes. That wasn't popular. They tried changing Solar Rails to PvP, and that quite literally killed the entire Dark Sector feature of the game. They reworked Conclave again, tying it to Teshin and presenting it as some preparation for the Sentients. That wasn't popular. They then tried Rathuum, which was really just a ploy to try to get PvE players interested in Conclave gameplay. That wasn't extremely popular, so they came up with Lunaro. And Lunaro hasn't been that popular.

That said, PvP dogfighting modes are known to work. They're successful, because the mechanics are the same and they work. Part of the reason Conclave/Lunaro will never be popular is because the gameplay mechanics aren't suited for PvP. For PvP to really work well, the only real variable is the particular weapon an person is using. That's why COD is so popular and successful. That's why Battlefield is successful. You don't do a bunch of crazy parkour and melee attacks in those games. Sure, your appearance changes, but the gameplay is centered around gun play. Warframe's PvP has too many variables. But with a dogfighting mode, the gameplay is simplified, the variables are reduced, and they are standardized. You can change up your armaments, which can determine how fast your rate of fire is, or how fast your fighter can fly, but the basic mechanics, including the 3DOF, are the same. Because the core mechanics are pretty basic, it's something that can work better for Warframe's PvP. Sure, it's not based around the power-based, parkour-based ground gameplay of the main game, but it offers something different, and that's ok. Not every game mode needs to be similar to the Warframe-based gameplay. And even still, you can always add power-based gameplay.

4) Not only do the mechanics of a dogfighting game mode have benefits over Archwing and its mechanics, but a dogfighting mode offers up the possibility of certain mission types. You can have a pure assault/exterminate mission, you could have a defense mission (with the added challenge due to the standard fighter flight model), you could have a mobile defense/escort mission where you're defending some larger ship; you could have a pursuit mission, where you're the one attacking a larger enemy ship that is defended by enemies. You could have a mode where you're attacking some large enemy flagship and defending your own (similar to Battlefront 2's space combat modes). You can't believably have that kind of escalation of scale with just Archwing.

5) That said, I'm not suggesting getting rid of Archwing. As vaminos alludes to somewhere down the page, Archwing has your "helicopter" controls, mostly. The weird rotating isn't quite helicopter like. But that's where Archwing would really shine. Instead of archwing being a stand in for space combat, what if archwings were used like attack helicopters?

To clarify, what if, instead of archwings being used in space, what if we used archwings in the air? What if we used them as close air support?

To be even clearer, what if we used archwings the same way attack helicopters are used, to attack enemies on the ground as well as some enemies in the air. You'd fly above the ground, taking out enemies on the ground as well as certain types of enemies in the air. The mode wouldn't be as high-speed as the proposed dogfight mode above, but it'd still be pretty fast. In this mode, you could take full advantage of the archwing flight model, including the ability to hover and to fly while shooting. You'd have to take on enemies on the ground (which could include some heavy anti-air enemies, like tanks and surface-to-air batteries, as well as regular infantry), and you'd have to take on enemies in the air (from hellions to enemy scout ships and hovering craft). You'd still have the underwater archwing gameplay, but having archwings in the air would allow you to expand the archwing gameplay while moving it to a more appropriate setting. And not only that, but if DE were to do something like this, they could then rework Vay Hek (who needs a whole lot of reworking) into an Archwing boss (since he's got his flying terraframe).

As for possible game modes, in addition to the existing Archwing game modes, you could have an archwing capture mission where you're pursuing a mobile target (maybe canyon runs on Mars, or a pursuit along a river on Earth or a train pursuit on Ceres -  yes, there's a train-like thing on Ceres). Maybe you could have an archwing invasion mode (see those Grineer guns on Mars? Those things could shoot at you as you try to invade), or a train escort (again, there's a train-like thing on Ceres, and you could have some new kind of hijack gameplay with that) that is kinda like a mobile defense.

 

In my opinion, moving archwings inside planets, making them airborne missions instead of space missions, you can do a whole lot more with the game mode in such a way that it not only make sense, but it works and can be popular. And coupling that with a new space-based dogfight mode (which could also take place higher above planet surfaces) could offer Warframe fresh new air/space based gameplay.

Edited August 29, 2016 by AntoineFlemming

[rockscl]

i have wanted to fly in a cloudy earth, or in a forest, so yes

[TheVeiledScion]

YES!!! I had an idea: MARS CANYON RUNS

 

You ever notice those narrow canyons on the Mars tileset? Make them a little bigger, throw a Pursuit or even some sort of capture mission there, and then make those Grineer cannons lethal. Fast-paced, harrowing gameplay.

 

Could even have some sort of Tenno Conclave "podracing" through Martian canyons.

[Rizilliant]

Forcing this horrible mode on us?  GAWD NO!  Titania's 4 is the closest thng we have to the old movement, but its not got boosters, its slow movement, slow forward momentum, slow turn, and gets stuck well beyond her body.. Shes allegedly shrunk, but she gets stuck on floors, ceiling, and spaces where she clearly has twice the room to maneuver through,.. Until they give us an option to revert to the old system, that doesnt make me sick,and one where i dont miss 99/100 of my Archrifle shots, ill not stand by this suggestion.. I thoroughly enjoyed the old AW.. The movement was great.. The problems with it were lack of modes, lack of maps, slow affinity gains (partially due to small group radius), difficulty obtaining mods, and extremely low drop chance for weapons.. Basically, it wasnt rewarding, for the effort, and those of us who did play it, played it because we enjoyed it.. Unfortunately, not enough ppl thought "fun" was enough to play, and time would be better spent in the ground game, where your time investment saw its rewards!

Edited August 29, 2016 by Rizilliant

[OniDax]

16 minutes ago, Rizilliant said:

Forcing this horrible mode on us?  GAWD NO!  Titania's 4 is the closest thng we have to the old movement, but its not got boosters, its slow movement, slow forward momentum, slow turn, and gets stuck well beyond her body.. Shes allegedly shrunk, but she gets stuck on floors, ceiling, and spaces where she clearly has twice the room to maneuver through,.. Until they give us an option to revert to the old system, that doesnt make me sick,and one where i dont miss 99/100 of my Archrifle shots, ill not stand by this suggestion.. I thoroughly enjoyed the old AW.. The movement was great.. The problems with it were lack of modes, lack of maps, slow affinity gains (partially due to small group radius), difficulty obtaining mods, and extremely low drop chance for weapons.. Basically, it wasnt rewarding, for the effort, and those of us who did play it, played it because we enjoyed it.. Unfortunately, not enough ppl thought "fun" was enough to play, and time would be better spent in the ground game, where your time investment saw its rewards!

If Archwing is put on planets, then it would absolutely make sense to use the old movement and not the new movement, just like how Submersible missions still use the old movement.