How do you feel about Covert Lethality?

[Airwolfen]

1 hour ago, LABAL said:

See, that is the very example of that common misconception. It doesn't trigger an instant kill when the enemy was alerted before being opened to finisher. It still deals a huge amount of finisher damage, but some enemies could survive that.

Never had that happen and I'm no stealthy player with inaros.

[gluih]

I actually just don't get why you would use a dagger, even with covert lethality. You could just use any other melee weapon, that works well without finishers. It's quite hard to find an enemy that won't just die from a finisher anyway. And when you finally get to the level where enemies won't just die from any finisher, there are still other ways to kill them that are a lot faster, so it's not really op in that way.

[Xgomme]

OP bandaid ?

[Azrael]

2 hours ago, LABAL said:

See, that is the very example of that common misconception. It doesn't trigger an instant kill when the enemy was alerted before being opened to finisher. It still deals a huge amount of finisher damage, but some enemies could survive that.

Proof? Anything? People went hundreds of rounds in the rathuum endurance mission and did billions of damage using ivara and covert lethality. The mod actually says "lethal damage on finishers." The wiki also says lethal damage on finishers. There's literally not a shred of evidence I can find that supports what you are saying. So... uh... maybe you could explain?

[motorfirebox]

3 hours ago, LABAL said:

See, that is the very example of that common misconception. It doesn't trigger an instant kill when the enemy was alerted before being opened to finisher. It still deals a huge amount of finisher damage, but some enemies could survive that.

I don't think that's correct. So far as I know, CL causes any finisher (except for ground finishers) to deal the target's max hp in finisher damage, regardless of the target's alert status. The amount isn't based on the weapon, it's based on the enemy's own hp. I've never heard of an enemy surviving a CL finisher, aside from the level 10,000+ enemies in the TennoCon 2016 event that seemed to simply break CL (the level 9,999 took max finisher damage as normal).

[Azrael]

9 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

I don't think that's correct. So far as I know, CL causes any finisher (except for ground finishers) to deal the target's max hp in finisher damage, regardless of the target's alert status. The amount isn't based on the weapon, it's based on the enemy's own hp. I've never heard of an enemy surviving a CL finisher, aside from the level 10,000+ enemies in the TennoCon 2016 event that seemed to simply break CL (the level 9,999 took max finisher damage as normal).

Yeah, that thing with the tennocon alert was a bug. It's unlikely to be fixed any time soon, though. (unless they plan to do another...  :) )

An interesting consequence of how CL works is that it's great for testing enemy health values, Since it always does exactly the amount of damage required to kill it.

I think @LABAL is thinking of an older version of the mod, when it added huge extra damage but didn't guarantee a kill. That was before my time, though. CL has been a guarantee for over a year, at least...

[Mastikator2]

 

[taiiat]

4 hours ago, LABAL said:

It doesn't trigger an instant kill when the enemy was alerted before being opened to finisher.

yes it does.
Lv9999 Enemies are still Script Killed, whether you perform a Stealth/Combat Finisher, and whether or not the Enemy knows you're around.

early into it's life, Covert Lethality had Combat Finishers removed from it's trigger - but it was added back later because it clearly wasn't cheesy enough without that.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

on one hand, the guaranteed stealth finisher kills can be seen as cheese, and cause players to use daggers almost exclusively for long endless runs (which are now much rarer due to the ne Void System), but on the other hand, without the mod daggers would be almost as unused as Machetes currently are; they have almost no range, low damage without the mod and a surprisingly slow attack speed compared to most other melee weapons. weapons like the new Galatine Prime beat out any dagger in all areas: more reach, more speed, more damage. it's only disadvantage is that it's finishers will eventually fall off.

I'd be fine with the removal of Covert Lethality, but ONLY if some changes were made to compensate. perhaps giving them the mod as a passive, or buffing them so that they are more eligible in open combat. taking away the mod on it's own with no changes to the system solves nothing, and would only aggravate players by nerfing stealth, and making daggers less viable overall.

and since we're talking about stealth kills, why not also discuss stealth as a whole? there is no real "system", it's literally just stay out of sight, go behind enemies and hope for the best. there's no real pattern to enemy movements, and scenarios where players get detected when they shouldn't have. if a proper system for killing unalert enemies was introduced, one that made stealth equally viable for all weapons, removing Covert Lethality wouldn't be so bad.

5 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Need to be fixed? Sure. There are just tons of other things that also need fixing.

^this. a lot more people run around with the Synoid Simulor than they do with a CL Dagger. but weapon balance should come hand-in-hand with much-needed changes to enemy scaling.

[HellDevil]

you forget equlinox kiddo.

[-Blaze-]

4 hours ago, Ghost_1302 said:

It should work on dual daggers.

Second that

[(PSN)IroncladBomber]

It is a bandaid, Daggers should be the go to melee weapon for stealth, and be a secent choice for full melee combat. Course not as viable as a Sword or Heavy Weapon.

Right now, CL just trivializes a lot. Especially with Frames that have Blinds, such as Inaros. But I don't consider it a high priority problem right now.

[Zeiss17]

Makes single daggers from uselsess to niche useful. That's it.

[leperkhaun]

Its nice. Run Ash with his teleport augment and an efficiency build. Something like....7 energy a cast. Just go around teleport killing everything. Its like a more spammy version of his 4.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

It's fine and is a welcome and needed addition. Since only mobs can be finisher killed it can't ever be too strong. No boss is susceptible. 

[Cmdr-A]

8 hours ago, LunarEdge7 said:

I haven't done enough testing yet, but if this mod can finisher-kill enemies that're lvl 9999, that's.. imo, not balanced. I know, finisher kills are slow but they can be made to be swift and fast. And it's like if you need a sure-kill OHKO melee weapon, this is the go-to. Cuz' its finisher dmg just doesn't fall off.

But there are other things that need more balancing, as stated by another person here. Such as SS + Mirage.

You aint just whistling dixie. that one alert recently that DE put up with max level enemies within seconds took 149 million hp and 149 million shield damage while using inaros and covert lethality :'D

Though imho its not that broken. You have daggers the only weapon it works on, you can only kill as fast as you can finish finishers. You're limited by that alone which makes it not that big a deal honestly.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Cmdr-A

[(XBOX)dude1286]

Wait, people have a problem with the niche mod Covert Lethality? Is it because it makes Daggers work differently than Galatine Prime, Fragor Prime and War? Is it because it only works on only non-essential mobs no matter the level? Is it because it only works in solo games or in squads that work together for the exploitation of said mod? Is it because it is a different play style than the meta?

[ivlr3vil]

Covert Lethality shines best when nothing else works, you can only kill them via single target and each enemy will have a finisher animation. You'll have to be going on the very long run where enemies can one shot the player and where guns fail. At that point, if they can one shot you, I feel it's only fair you can one shot them as well anyway.

You'll still need to worry about the objectives like Oxygen on Survival, a pod on defense or if you want to see them get even more powerful another excavator.

Edited August 31, 2016 by ivlr3vil

[leperkhaun]

I think that CL functionality should either just be a function of a single dagger OR rolled into their stance.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

8 hours ago, LABAL said:

See, that is the very example of that common misconception. It doesn't trigger an instant kill when the enemy was alerted before being opened to finisher. It still deals a huge amount of finisher damage, but some enemies could survive that.

^correct

there also are different classifications of finishers and how damage is applied 

covert lethality adds "lethal finisher" damage to target after animation of strike ,  most finishers people mention are called counter finishers, counter deal a lot of damage but its not a guarnteed kill (ex on anything 200+ heavy armored..)

ground finishers on some stances add more damage also , or like ripkas and the rathuum mod...

personally though id rather see this mod work on dual daggers as well or have their own variation (i like my okina...)

[DatDarkOne]

Normally I don't really care about CL and daggers, but I do have to agree with Dude1286's post.

1 hour ago, (XB1)dude1286 said:

Wait, people have a problem with the niche mod Covert Lethality? Is it because it makes Daggers work differently than Galatine Prime, Fragor Prime and War? Is it because it only works on only non-essential mobs no matter the level? Is it because it only works in solo games or in squads that work together for the exploitation of said mod? Is it because it is a different play style than the meta?

It's such a niche mod and only works in specific situations.  Then add in that the need for very long missions no longer really exist, there even less reason to care/complain/need it. 

[LunarEdge7]

20 hours ago, (XB1)dude1286 said:

Wait, people have a problem with the niche mod Covert Lethality? Is it because it makes Daggers work differently than Galatine Prime, Fragor Prime and War? Is it because it only works on only non-essential mobs no matter the level? Is it because it only works in solo games or in squads that work together for the exploitation of said mod? Is it because it is a different play style than the meta?

Imo, it shouldn't even be a mod. Newer players need to be informed of its existence to utilise the full potential of their daggers. And some people agreed with me when I stated this in other social media sites.

As stated by the other comments before me, daggers' stealth kill multiplier should alrdy be higher than most other weapons. It should also have whatever CL is giving.