Clan Hopping For Blueprints.

[X3Evanescence]

It's in most people's nature to take the quickest route to get what they want. I don't think they should be vilified for it. It's a shortsighted thing to do, but it's their decision. They may not like the idea of sticking around for a few more weeks, just waiting for the resource change, then waiting a few more weeks before the dojo is built and the research done. They have to work around a flawed system if they want to play with people they like and have the weapons, too.

 

Awful judgmental of some of you to want them banned and marked for life.

True enough. Point taken. Yes this person may have been a little overboard with his insensitive comment, but I cannot say that my judgment is awful though, although of course it is too hostile and filled with anger. I initially posted that while being overcome by rage, but after browsing through the forums for a while longer and restoring my mental clarity from the blind fury of rage, I can now see your point behind this very clearly. Well, there are always people like that. It is an inevitable part of life. I should just tolerate and live with it, even with all this pointless raging, life goes on. The system now may be flawed, but improvements has already been promised.

[happyfunba11]

True enough. Point taken. Yes this person may have been a little overboard with his insensitive comment, but I cannot say that my judgment is awful though, although of course it is too hostile and filled with anger. I initially posted that while being overcome by rage, but after browsing through the forums for a while longer and restoring my mental clarity from the blind fury of rage, I can now see your point behind this very clearly. Well, there are always people like that. It is an inevitable part of life. I should just tolerate and live with it, even with all this pointless raging, life goes on. The system now may be flawed, but improvements has already been promised.

 

It wasn't directed at you personally, and I wasn't calling anyone's judgement awful. "Awfully" as in "very". I was passing judgement on those who pass judgement.

[DJSmash]

sorry all. there had been similiar discussion before..

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/66292-clan-blueprint-leacher/

 

 

edit:

 

As long as there is no repercussion for joining, taking then leaving, people are going to do it.

 

I find the majority of today's generation are impatient and have an obsession with competing in every way possible rather than to work together as a team.

this includes having the latest and the greatest things as soon as possible before other people to feel better than them.

 

Working as a team for the long haul and the feeling of achievement when the goal is finally completed is no longer reasonable.

 

I had three younger players in my clan 13-15.

All of them had either suggested or demanded that I recruit as many people as possible in hopes of the clan dojo being completed quicker for them.

So they could get the weapons quicker.

 

The irony is these players donate very little to the dojo and spend a lot of materials on themselves.

So they are ranked appropriately and made sure they know the options if they want the weapons fast.

Yup thats very true.

 

Due to the current clan system, well, its just really sad. Certain people are just taking the easy way out..and while i choose to believe there are such things as "value" "principles" not everyone believes in such things and most of the time you get people saying "its just a game" yada yada yada. it hurts but well, sorry. This is the current system and there's not much you can do about it. 

 

IMHO, like in the previous posting, setting "limits" to obtain the bps isnt going to help as well. its just a matter of time before people hop. why? because they can and thats why they will do it. or for other reasons which we will never understand.

(and then you are gonna have those people who just dont care and jump straight into a mega clan. easiest thing to do for game content right?)

 

The merit system sounds reasonable but how effective its gonna work? sounds similar to the previous post.

 

My take in this whole clan bp thingy is to look back at the current Clan system structure and rework it as a whole.

There's too many limitation in the current clan system. thats just my opinion though =)

Edited June 26, 2013 by DJSmash

[LongDraw]

Well, the Merit/Reputation system is a speed break of sorts to prevent exploitation of clan/group organizations within a game.

[Hixlysss]

To be honest, I'd be happy if we could mark these players, and perhaps others, as targets for a sort of...dark souls style invasion. We join their match, a full squad, and just get to beat the crap out of them randomly. Personally, I'd be happy with just that.

[fishworshipper]

Omigosh, I have never seen such a rude, disrespectful and downright shameless brat who does not care for others posting such an asinine and insulting comment before! Do you not realize that our fellow Tenno Clan Masters are also human too?

By saying this, you have just shown everyone how much of a person you are. Loser. You disgust me and do not deserve any respect. I absolutely detest seeing my fellow Tenno getting insulted by ignorant people. Do you seriously have any respect for the clan masters at all? They willingly take you on with open arms, yet you just loot whatever's important for your own selfish ambitions and leave them for dead?

Heartless. Clan masters around who see this post, remember the IGN of this daring person. Let him be an example of how the Warframe community is being increasingly polluted with this kind of shameless players. You know what's the best part? The clan masters are unable to get any justice on these people, other than banning them from their clan. This is infuriating, but I will cease to say any more. No matter how bad people can be, I cannot be hostile.

I can't tell whether you're being serious or not...

[Maxdoney]

So, at least one member of my clan has hopped from my clan to another clan for the sole purpose of getting blueprints from that clan. Then he left the clan and by some fluke managed to rejoin us. Personally, I find this a big spit in the face to not only the clan he joined and left, but to my clan as well.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but personally I hate seeing clan members do this. We are working on building the labs for our own clan members to use but instead of even attempting to help they simply leave and join another clan and just buy the blueprints they want, then they leave that clan and join back up with the original clan. Knowing that someone does this upsets me because we are a small clan and we welcome potential members with open arms into our little family so to speak. The fact that someone would join a clan just to get blueprints and then leave is...insulting but more so when a member of your clan leaves to join another simply to get the blueprints.

 

So we were thinking of ways of at least limiting the potential for this and they came up with a "Clan Reputation" system, meaning a player would have to have X reputation to purchase the blueprints or do what ever. Players would get reputation, at least starting out, by simply playing with a clan member. Surely more features can be built from this and potentially it can be managed by the warlord of the clan as to how much reputation is needed for X thing, such as even contributing resources to the clan or what have you.

 

It wouldn't stop them, but it would discourage them to be sure. On top of that, I encourage clans to be on the lookout for these kinds of people.

We solved this all as Variable room prices & Dojo key on my topic, here in Dojo suggestions forum, take a look...

[Numot]

Why not fix the actual problem; dojo's suck for anything that isn't a large clan. Rather than go after people smart enough to go around the barriers to getting the blueprints.

[Maxdoney]

Why not fix the actual problem; dojo's suck for anything that isn't a large clan. Rather than go after people smart enough to go around the barriers to getting the blueprints.

For better understanding go to look here on explanation in my last comment: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/66292-clan-blueprint-leacher/page-2

[LongDraw]

We solved this all as Variable room prices & Dojo key on my topic, here in Dojo suggestions forum, take a look...

Why don't you keep the ideas from your clan's thread IN YOUR CLAN'S THREAD?

[X3Evanescence]

I can't tell whether you're being serious or not...

I was VERY serious initially when I posted that LOL. Like seriously. But now that I have cooled down, if you take that post as a joke, well it's perfectly fine by me =D

[Chaosrejin78]

Could be easy enough to fix, just add a clan vault that stores resources and have a leaving fee of a certain amount of resources.  Only the General and the Warlord would have access to the vault and they could only put forth the materials in it to the dojo rooms.  That way, even if they wanted to leave, they have to contribute something to the clan.  Tada, easy solution for something that people find annoying and some what real world based, cause often in organizations such as clans or gangs or even mafia, there is a buy out fee, where a person leaving the clan/gang/mafia, would have to compensate the group.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Chaosrejin78

[Troublechutor]

It never ceases to amaze me how people can get upset that their imaginary clubhouse is being raided for imaginary items by internet deadbeats they they dont know and will never meet but somehow want to have control over.

 

What is the purpose of clans anyway?  You little tyrants and your pretend social orders... sheesh.

[HypecT]

I totally agree on this!

[LongDraw]

It never ceases to amaze me how people can get upset that their imaginary clubhouse is being raided for imaginary items by internet deadbeats they they dont know and will never meet but somehow want to have control over.

 

What is the purpose of clans anyway?  You little tyrants and your pretend social orders... sheesh.

So you have absolutely no problem with someone who's only been playing for one day running around with flame throwers, laser guns and the such??

[X3Evanescence]

So you have absolutely no problem with someone who's only been playing for one day running around with flame throwers, laser guns and the such??

 

Calm down. I think what he was trying to say is that no matter how much we hate them or whatsoever, they are after all, people. We cannot go around raining judgment on people. Of course I understand how you feel, how lousy I feel when I am exploited and then abandoned, but I think we shouldn't shorten our lives by being hostile and angry towards these people, like I said, it only shortens our lives. No other option, except to accept it and move on.

[LongDraw]

I would vote for one of these options:

 

1.  Merit/Reputation system to control how quickly a new clan member can use premium clan content (ie. blueprints currently)

 

2.  Allow one clan blueprint to be purchased per mastery rank achieved.

 

3.  Allow clan Warlords to select option to require contributions to construction/clan vault in order to purchase blueprints from clan facilities.

[Maxdoney]

Why don't you keep the ideas from your clan's thread IN YOUR CLAN'S THREAD?

Because I trying to help them find the way.. All what I am doing on warframe forum is help.. If you don´t know what is "help" and on what is "capslock" go search on wiki..

 

I would vote for one of these options:

 

1.  Merit/Reputation system to control how quickly a new clan member can use premium clan content (ie. blueprints currently)

 

2.  Allow one clan blueprint to be purchased per mastery rank achieved.

 

3.  Allow clan Warlords to select option to require contributions to construction/clan vault in order to purchase blueprints from clan facilities

1. Why wait time, when you not need now... unfair for players what haven´t much time on play

2. Why wait time, when you not need now... unfair for small clans

3. "select" Its unfair...

4. Dojo key price - fair solution, but he not will vote for it, because he hate me for nothing..

Edited June 28, 2013 by Maxdoney

[LongDraw]

Because I trying to help them find the way.. All what I am doing on warframe forum is help.. If you don´t know what is "help" and on what is "capslock" go search on wiki..

 

1. Why wait time, when you not need now... unfair for players what haven´t much time on play

2. Why wait time, when you not need now... unfair for small clans

3. "select" Its unfair...

4. Dojo key price - fair solution, but he not will vote for it, because he hate me for nothing..

 

Okay, like I just stated in the other forum.  Except this time I understood even less of what you are trying to say???

 

Why have a wait time, I am thinking you are asking.  Because that is the nature of gaming.  You don't see newbie players taking on the most difficult bosses in a game their first day or firing grenade launchers that annihilate the most difficult enemies in a game the first day.  As for being unfair to players who don't have much time to play, well, guess what?  I'm one of them.  I spend almost 12 hours of each work day, Mon-Fri, away from home.  Take off 8 hours for sleep, an hour to eat dinner and prepare lunch for next day and I have 3 hours free.  Take off 1-2 hours for required training for my job when I'm at home and guess what?  Some days all I can do is get my login reward.

 

As for being unfair to small clans.  Well, my clan currently has 27 members, of which about half of them are active.  So yeah, give me a different reason unless you think I'm penalizing my own clan.

 

And what do you mean by "select Its unfair"?  It is every player's choice whether they want to accept a clan invite and if they want to stay in a clan.  If the clan Warlords turn on the "maintenance function", then it is up to each member to make that choice to stay or leave.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about in number 4.  All I know is it has no relevance with what the developers have told us in the last live stream, let alone does it solve any problems.  And I'm probably one of the best people when it comes to math here.  Who won't vote for what?  Who hates you for nothing?

[ratsroloc]

I have an idea. What if every time someone bought a blueprint in your research rooms, the Clan Vault stored those credits to be used on your next room build? This requires a Clan Vault to be added in, but it's probably the best fix for all the Clan Hoppers. It saves them the time to have to build their own Dojo, and it gets you a small amount of credits that your members don't have to farm for in order to build your next Great Hall.

 

This could be taken further. If a clan foundry is ever added in, you could make it so that clan weapons that need research can only be built in the clan foundry, and every time a weapon is forged there, the blue resource drops (Mutagen Sample, Detonite Ampule, and Fieldron Sample) get used up, requiring more disappointing boss runs. But all the non-disappointing resource drops, the Nanospores, the Ferrite, the Salvage, the Credits, get put into the clan vault to be used in further Dojo expansions. This way, you reinforce the sense of community. It's kind of like giving back to your neighborhood by picking up all the bottles and cans in your gutters and taking them to a recycling... deposit... thingy. You get a small amount of cash in exchange for doing something nice for you and your neighbors. In the same vein, these clan hoppers, who're like hobos who go scrounging around in neighborhood gutters for bottles and cans, are helping you expand your dojo while simultaneously getting the guns they want.

[Troublechutor]

So you have absolutely no problem with someone who's only been playing for one day running around with flame throwers, laser guns and the such??

Clan-tech has high prices for BP's, expensive mats for production, and require tons of mastery ranks to even be allowed to equip.

 

What you mean to ask is do I have a problem with someone joining my clan and using my BP's and leaving, from their first opportunity to do so.  No, I have no problem with that.  Why should I?  Do you?  If so, please explain, in detail, why you have a problem with this.  Every possible explaination I can imagine sounds childish and stingy in my head... and so far the ones expressed in this forum reflect this.

 

What I see is people feeling like their personal relationship to their clan is being violated by do-nothing leechers... but unless you see someone actually take something from you (meaning you have less of something)... why do you care that these people exist at all?  

[Kashiki]

It never ceases to amaze me how people can get upset that their imaginary clubhouse is being raided for imaginary items by internet deadbeats they they dont know and will never meet but somehow want to have control over.

 

What is the purpose of clans anyway?  You little tyrants and your pretend social orders... sheesh.

 

The same could be said if something happened to you in real life. Nobody cares how hurt you get doing something, somewhere, by someone you can't control. We don't care if you were injured, if your parents were killed, etc. Because it's not our problem, and it happens.

 

You see? That's what you sound like. Real life or a game, it's something meaningful to someone else. You'd be pissed if someone broke the computer you used to type up that insensitive comment, yet we wouldn't care since (by your delivery) "all they did was just destroy a mass of pixels and wires".

 

You people and your perceived sense of superiority.

[Troublechutor]

The same could be said if something happened to you in real life. Nobody cares how hurt you get doing something, somewhere, by someone you can't control. We don't care if you were injured, if your parents were killed, etc. Because it's not our problem, and it happens.

 

You see? That's what you sound like. Real life or a game, it's something meaningful to someone else. You'd be &!$$ed if someone broke the computer you used to type up that insensitive comment, yet we wouldn't care since (by your delivery) "all they did was just destroy a mass of pixels and wires".

 

You people and your perceived sense of superiority.

What I sound like?  LOL no.  

 

First off, how is anyone actually hurt by this activity.  What damage is done to anyone?  I mean, maybe you could argue that I got carpel-tunnel syndrome from spam clicking for 12 straight hours to farm up that nifty new BP in the dojo, but no one made me do it, and if you join up, replicate BP and leave, I'm not in any way impacted by your actions at all.

 

So if I seem insensitive, its because you're all hyper sensitive... you percieve damage where none exists.  Fragile ego's assuming that clan-hoppers are denigrating your efforts.  They are not, and regardless they can always join a "goon swarm" dojo for the BP's anyway.  Why do you care?

[LongDraw]

Clan-tech has high prices for BP's, expensive mats for production, and require tons of mastery ranks to even be allowed to equip.

 

What you mean to ask is do I have a problem with someone joining my clan and using my BP's and leaving, from their first opportunity to do so.  No, I have no problem with that.  Why should I?  Do you?  If so, please explain, in detail, why you have a problem with this.  Every possible explaination I can imagine sounds childish and stingy in my head... and so far the ones expressed in this forum reflect this.

 

What I see is people feeling like their personal relationship to their clan is being violated by do-nothing leechers... but unless you see someone actually take something from you (meaning you have less of something)... why do you care that these people exist at all?  

The problem, as I have stated before is that the developers never intended these weapons to be distributed to the playerbase in this fashion.  It was made available only as an item you could get through completion of clan research in order to increase the value of the weapons.  In other words, if they had not cared how players got the weapons to begin with, then they would have just placed them in the market place with a high credit price.

[Troublechutor]

Ah, but they let the clan pool resources to unlock hyper-expensive gear but had no mechanism to prevent that unlocked gear from becoming a commodity.  Moving the BP's from the market to the dojo doesn't actually alter the underlying distribution effect once the larger clans have unlocked the gear.  From that point on, its just another BP available for purchase.

 

I described the clan dojo as just a more cumbersome UI for the market in another thread, and I really mean it.  If I want a clan weapon, I should not even have to log into the dojo, walk to the elevaor, push some buttons, wander around until I find where my clan has built the right lab, and then replicate the desire BP from there... just put that crap on a "clan dojo" tab of the market, thanks!

 

So if the desire is to make distribution more restricted, they messed that up.  But so long as the system remains this way, I maintain that there is no harm to anyone for taking advantage of unlocked BP's in a clan and then leaving... because no actual harm is done to anyone.  No clan resources are used, no costs incurred... nothing.