LongDraw Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Ah, but they let the clan pool resources to unlock hyper-expensive gear but had no mechanism to prevent that unlocked gear from becoming a commodity. Moving the BP's from the market to the dojo doesn't actually alter the underlying distribution effect once the larger clans have unlocked the gear. From that point on, its just another BP available for purchase. I described the clan dojo as just a more cumbersome UI for the market in another thread, and I really mean it. If I want a clan weapon, I should not even have to log into the dojo, walk to the elevaor, push some buttons, wander around until I find where my clan has built the right lab, and then replicate the desire BP from there... just put that crap on a "clan dojo" tab of the market, thanks! So if the desire is to make distribution more restricted, they messed that up. But so long as the system remains this way, I maintain that there is no harm to anyone for taking advantage of unlocked BP's in a clan and then leaving... because no actual harm is done to anyone. No clan resources are used, no costs incurred... nothing. I agree that the system that was put in place did not prevent the general playerbase from gaining access to the weapons once the mega clans had unlocked all the BPs. However, as you say, "they messed that up", which shows me that you can see that the developers did not intentionally code it to be that way, but rather it is a malfunctioning game mechanic tha must be corrected. As for doing no harm to the clan that built the dojo and unlocked the weapons BPs, well yes, technically no additional harm is being done to the clan. However, those players who are joining a clan just to get the BPs and then leaving immediately after are cheating all of those clan members that have already invested their share of the resources to acquire those BPs. Those players that are joining, buying BPs and then leaving right away should have been forced in some way to either build their own dojo (investing their own resources), purchase the weapon BPs from the market for a higher cost (credits or plat, devs choice), or some other mechanic to prevent the abuse from occuring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troublechutor Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 However, those players who are joining a clan just to get the BPs and then leaving immediately after are cheating all of those clan members that have already invested their share of the resources to acquire those BPs. Those players that are joining, buying BPs and then leaving right away should have been forced in some way to either build their own dojo (investing their own resources), purchase the weapon BPs from the market for a higher cost (credits or plat, devs choice), or some other mechanic to prevent the abuse from occuring. This right here is where you lose me. No one was cheated... these clan members unlocked the BP's at their own expense because they wanted access to them, nothing more need be said about their motivations. No one ever thought they would get some fractional refund on that cost when a new player joined the clan and also wanted that BP for themselves. Also, as I've mentioned, a "goon swarm" clan will use BP's as incentives to attract as many players to their dojo as possible, because they thrive on huge numbers of players and loyalty isn't an issue. So a new player joins up, sees a bunch of tech offered and buys blueprints, then gets an offer to leave the clan for one more to his liking, no one in the first clan is cheated because this player showed up after all the decisions about the clan tech were made, and the game doesn't force people to unlock anything again. Its not a malfunctioning mechanic, its working as designed. The malfunction is in the mind of the clanners that feel cheated by this behavior ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongDraw Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Maybe we can get one of the developers to tell us how they intended the mechanic to work since you obviously don't understand that you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troublechutor Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Maybe we can get one of the developers to tell us how they intended the mechanic to work since you obviously don't understand that you are wrong. What mechanic? 1. Clan unlocks BP. 2. Clan members replicate BP. How exactly were the devs planning on this working differently. Not your opinion on how it should work, I want to know where they state that this was a mistake and the outcome is somehow different than they would have liked. I'm not wrong, I'm describing reality. You're emotional response to that reality doesn't alter it. Edited July 1, 2013 by Troublechutor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongDraw Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 What mechanic? 1. Clan unlocks BP. 2. Clan members replicate BP. How exactly were the devs planning on this working differently. Not your opinion on how it should work, I want to know where they state that this was a mistake and the outcome is somehow different than they would have liked. I'm not wrong, I'm describing reality. You're emotional response to that reality doesn't alter it. How about we agree to disagree since it is already obvious I'm right :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troublechutor Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 As soon as you come to accept how wrong you are ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hixlysss Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 Wow, like half this page is just Troublechutor and LongDraw chatting back and forth. Either Troublechutor is trolling...or he just really doesn't understand the whole concept, Either way I'd appreciate it if you kept your comments to yourself and leave my thread without them. If you have a point to make, go make your own thread, please. I'm usually fight with counter arguments to an idea, but jesus...Some people just take it too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gestalt Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Bah, weaklings! But yeah, when the news of the update hit, I actually told my few clan members that I wouldn't be in the least upset if they left for one of the major clans because I knew they'd leave eventually. The combined reply warmed my heart though: "if we can't get it in this dojo, we'll just go without" And yes, we still don't have those weapons and yes, we're still happily playing the game :D Your clan is awesome :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebubbles Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Who needs to clan-hop? All the big clans already have access to all the blueprints and they are mostly indiscriminate with accepting new members. If all folks want is the new weapons, just join one of them, then leave when you're done and go back to the smaller, more personal clan that you enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troublechutor Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Wow, like half this page is just Troublechutor and LongDraw chatting back and forth. Either Troublechutor is trolling...or he just really doesn't understand the whole concept, Either way I'd appreciate it if you kept your comments to yourself and leave my thread without them. If you have a point to make, go make your own thread, please. I'm usually fight with counter arguments to an idea, but jesus...Some people just take it too far. Not trolling at all. Again, you are having an irrational/emotional response to clan-hopping players. I could summarize my whole purpose in this thread with "Why do you care?" That I added content to an otherwise pointless thread and engaged longdraw in probably the only interesting discussion going on here, I'd think youd be happy the thread didn't die already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueSpecter Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Seriously? Are people really this nerdy?!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I really want to take part in this conversation (again >_>) but I won't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongDraw Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Not trolling at all. Again, you are having an irrational/emotional response to clan-hopping players. I could summarize my whole purpose in this thread with "Why do you care?" That I added content to an otherwise pointless thread and engaged longdraw in probably the only interesting discussion going on here, I'd think youd be happy the thread didn't die already. +1 Yeah, I was just injecting some humor into what seemed like a more heated discussion. But yeah, Troublechutor and I may not hold the same opinion, but at least we can laugh about it! Cheers dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZWarhammer Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Clan hopping sounds stupid to me, but this is what the insane resources requirements caused to small clans, they just don't feel like waiting till DE fix what they screwed up so they just try to get the benefits of bigger clans and then hopping back into their own clans. I personally got effected by this, i had a small clan of friends who i play with often but when we heard that small clans would be skewed after this update we just decided to join a bigger clan whilst still playing together but in a lesser home comfort feeling. Now it's not that bad being part of a big clan, i personally decided to join broframe because i know that the leader of the clan is a good guy. I feel like pvping in these clans is a lot of fun, i often find new people to play with these days, the feeling of sparring with someone in the dueling room, getting to know them and after that switching to pve co op with them is an awesome feeling. That being said i think if they just increase the resource requirements on the clan keys AFTER you built em once already to be significantly more difficult to build but not insane should disencourage people from just hopping from 1 clan to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerusKI Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 im also thinking about joining broframe for a while, jsut to get my lanka, and maybe the supra. if a player would ask me, if he could join my clan to get access to something he wants, i would allow him. he cant break something, he just can have fun with it, so...why not? if someone joins me without telling me that he wants to hop, yes, that would be a little bit sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongDraw Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 im also thinking about joining broframe for a while, jsut to get my lanka, and maybe the supra. if a player would ask me, if he could join my clan to get access to something he wants, i would allow him. he cant break something, he just can have fun with it, so...why not? if someone joins me without telling me that he wants to hop, yes, that would be a little bit sad. So what is the point of having weapons that can only be gotten from a clan dojo? Why not just put them in the market and forget the whole research lab blueprints? Heck, the devs could just move the blueprints to market and yank everything from research labs and reclassify them as purely cosmetic rooms. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jallenocere Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 So what is the point of having weapons that can only be gotten from a clan dojo? Why not just put them in the market and forget the whole research lab blueprints? Heck, the devs could just move the blueprints to market and yank everything from research labs and reclassify them as purely cosmetic rooms. Problem solved. That would just chase more problems though. Think about all the smalls clans that actually got the labs and have them turn cosmetic. That like the biggest insult ever. Its basically saying: "soooooo..... congratz on grinding weeks on end for the those awesome labs..... buuuuut we decided to make bps a viable to everyone so labs sure no purpose what SSO ever. K Thx bye" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongDraw Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 That would just chase more problems though. Think about all the smalls clans that actually got the labs and have them turn cosmetic. That like the biggest insult ever. Its basically saying: "soooooo..... congratz on grinding weeks on end for the those awesome labs..... buuuuut we decided to make bps a viable to everyone so labs sure no purpose what SSO ever. K Thx bye" Yeah, and those small clans are now less likely to have their members leave to temp/perma join the mega clans just for blueprints. As a small clan leader myself who has contributed significant amounts of mats and forma to our dojo already, I would support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerusKI Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) we have managed to get our blueprints from broframe now (thanks). so far it is a fact that you need to join a large clan to get them, small clans would need years with the current costs. there is not realy a reason to join a small clan if you want progress. (for now) im a clan leader too, and i have heard it many times "when do we get our research? when do we build the duel-room?" and i always had to say..."maybe after the rework" ... thats sad and disappointing for them and for me, because i cant give them something to play with, and they dont have anything from being in a clan...just a fancy chat window and a fany dojo-mainhall. we still want to finish our Labs in our own Dojo to give other players access to them (and because the dojo is cool). the clan weapon bp systems is nice, but it needs work (alpha etc i know). if it is ready for smaller clans after the rework, it would give a reason to play together, it would give the ability to implement stronger/new weapons without binding them to ? alerts or new bosses, or wasting them as regular BPs in the market. Edited July 3, 2013 by LazerusKI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix86 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) Ideally i would 'hate' too... pratically i would say... "go if u really cant live without that new weapon" than come back here and let's keep working If they are friends they'll follow you, if they are not... screw them, fine that they left. Edited July 3, 2013 by Phoenix86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VER1 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Ideally i would 'hate' too... pratically i would say... "go if u really cant live without that new weapon" than come back here and let's keep working If they are friends they'll follow you, if they are not... screw them, fine that they left. ^This. If people demand, they also need to farm hard and share by contributing without thought of what other low lifes are not contributing but demanding. But many refuse to farm hard and refuse to understand how to because it is boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongDraw Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 ^This. If people demand, they also need to farm hard and share by contributing without thought of what other low lifes are not contributing but demanding. But many refuse to farm hard and refuse to understand how to because it is boring. Yeah, currently the clan I oversee operations in has about 30 members total and progress isn't really that fast on dojo construction with having lower activity levels with a number of our members, and some that I imagine have not contributed yet, though I don't claim to know their reasons if that is the case. But what I can say is that just last night we got our dueling room about 20% closer on resources contributed in about 2 hours of infinite wave infested defense on Io last night with just a 3-4 man team. So it's not impossible with at least one full squad of members hitting it hard for an hour or two a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogied Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) We are working on the ranking system so x up only has access.........ie warlords setting access Edited July 3, 2013 by Boogied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ler110 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) If members leave they will leave. Personally the small group I play with and co-lead does not have a problem with members leaving. Either since we have played together for at least 3 years each on average and our newest members get taken into the community here and in other games pretty readily and made to feel welcome. The main problem is not the cost of dojo stuff, but a lack of patience. The group I play with we finish about 2 projects a week or so in the dojo with a total of ten active members and 15 or so semi-active members. Normally everyone works on it together, which in our case I would credit to our community that has been around for a while, literally everyone donates the vast majority of resources they get from missions on their own. I would recommend not holding onto members so tightly, the tighter you try and hold on and the more restrictions you put in place for things like access and donations the more people you will lose because they will feel like you are forcing them to do something. Make them want to stay don't make it hard for them to leave. Edited July 3, 2013 by ler110 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhoyzu Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 What mechanic? 1. Clan unlocks BP. 2. Clan members replicate BP. How exactly were the devs planning on this working differently. Not your opinion on how it should work, I want to know where they state that this was a mistake and the outcome is somehow different than they would have liked. I'm not wrong, I'm describing reality. You're emotional response to that reality doesn't alter it. the devs planned on teamwork and clans to unlock something together as an achievement. when down syndromes jump around and bypass their system to acquire things faster then DE wanted (because now dojos are dead content since most people joined a clan that finished it in 3 days). the intended mechanic here was a time investment/reward with a sense of accomplishment and achievement. your shortsightedness is not a description of reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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