Nullifiers - Stop bickering and take a moment to recognize the actual issues

[Scylax]

Here's how every discussion on Nullifiers goes:

"Nullifiers are OP and remove the fun and existence of abilities! Remove/nerf pls."

"Nullifiers are needed because we're OP and we remove the fun ourselves"

 

Let us recognize that these discussions are not of the same problem.

The first:  Abilities are one of the fundamental features of Warframe, and Nullifiers prevent the usage of them (regardless of whether this is good or bad). Yes, players can go play other factions' missions, but this is Feedback -- not Player Helping Players. Our goal here is to improve Warframe, and not suggest workarounds.

The second: Player cheese is so rampant that we needed a solution to the cheese

 

Now let's get to the actual problem: Nullifiers are really bad at stopping player cheese. They only (attempt to or do) prevent cheese in missions for two factions, so right off the bat they're an incomplete solution. On top of that, in addition to stopping cheese, they unintentionally hamper intended use of abilities. For an example, go play a void MD with Frost only to have your snow globe around the terminal (entirely intended use of snow globe) be instantly popped by a Nullifier jumping down from the next floor up that you didn't hear coming through all of the action.

 

We're all tired -- some of the first, some of the second, and some of both. Can we all finally agree that instead of one perspective being right/wrong, that yes, ability cheese needs to be prevented, and, no, Nullifiers are not a good solution for what they're intended, and we need a better one? 

Edited September 4, 2016 by Scylax

[BlackCoMerc]

15 minutes ago, Scylax said:

Here's how every discussion on Nullifiers goes:

"Nullifiers are OP and remove the fun and existence of abilities! Remove/nerf pls."

"Nullifiers are needed because we're OP and we remove the fun ourselves"

 

Let us recognize that these discussions are not of the same problem.

The first:  Abilities are one of the fundamental features of Warframe, and Nullifiers prevent the usage of them (regardless of whether this is good or bad). Yes, players can go play other factions' missions, but this is Feedback -- not Player Helping Players. Our goal here is to improve Warframe, and not suggest workarounds.

The second: Player cheese is so rampant that we needed a solution to the cheese

 

Now let's get to the actual problem: Nullifiers are really bad at stopping player cheese. They only (attempt to or do) prevent cheese in missions for two factions, so right off the bat they're an incomplete solution. On top of that, in addition to stopping cheese, they unintentionally hamper intended use of abilities. For an example, go play a void MD with Frost only to have your snow globe around the terminal (entirely intended use of snow globe) be instantly popped by a Nullifier jumping down from the next floor up that you didn't hear coming through all of the action.

 

We're all tired -- some of the first, some of the second, and some of both. Can we all finally agree that instead of one perspective being right/wrong, that yes, ability cheese needs to be prevented, and, no, Nullifiers are not a good solution for what they're intended, and we need a better one? 

Agree completely.

I could even argue that Nullifiers outright encourage the spam they are intended to prevent.

Nullifiers spawn with numerous heavies in their bubbles. You're either taking fire while chipping away at the bubble or risking knockdown rushing the bubble. So of course, obce the Nullifier is down, the best course of action with all those heavies around, is Crowd Control.

I would be willing to make do with less powerful powers, if they remain reliable at all times. This means bosses, Capture target, etc, no longer are immune. Nullifiers are removed. That's called balance. 

But this yanking out an entire game mechanic every time you feel like it (while hiding behind the excuse of challenge you never actually achieve) is killing the fun.

[Kuestenjung]

And I thought someone finally had figured out the real problem, but I was disappointed another time.

The real problem is the spawnmechanic in this game. Every enemyunit should be present in a mission no matter if 5min into a survival or 60min and not replace all the weak enemies with "harder" enemies.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Kuestenjung

[achromos]

32 minutes ago, Scylax said:

Here's how every discussion on Nullifiers goes:

"Nullifiers are OP and remove the fun and existence of abilities! Remove/nerf pls."

"Nullifiers are needed because we're OP and we remove the fun ourselves"

 

Let us recognize that these discussions are not of the same problem.

The first:  Abilities are one of the fundamental features of Warframe, and Nullifiers prevent the usage of them (regardless of whether this is good or bad). Yes, players can go play other factions' missions, but this is Feedback -- not Player Helping Players. Our goal here is to improve Warframe, and not suggest workarounds.

The second: Player cheese is so rampant that we needed a solution to the cheese

 

Now let's get to the actual problem: Nullifiers are really bad at stopping player cheese. They only (attempt to or do) prevent cheese in missions for two factions, so right off the bat they're an incomplete solution. On top of that, in addition to stopping cheese, they unintentionally hamper intended use of abilities. For an example, go play a void MD with Frost only to have your snow globe around the terminal (entirely intended use of snow globe) be instantly popped by a Nullifier jumping down from the next floor up that you didn't hear coming through all of the action.

 

We're all tired -- some of the first, some of the second, and some of both. Can we all finally agree that instead of one perspective being right/wrong, that yes, ability cheese needs to be prevented, and, no, Nullifiers are not a good solution for what they're intended, and we need a better one? 

 

First, I rather have ability's be useful.  Though I do take a hard stance against abilities that play the game FOR you, I.E ...Banshees sound quake with augment... Saryn with max range using a gas synoid simulor, Ash Prime, ect.

I never want abilities to be useless, So as long as the solution isn't "Let's give abilities cooldowns"  "Abilities should be as restricted to use as Destiny"  "Energy needs to be further limited, let's remove Corrupted mods."  Ect.  Then I'll support this discussion.  I feel like Nullifier bubbles should be LARGER and affected by LINE OF SIGHT to help remove the bubble popping through the walls issue, but shouldn't restrict people who want to use bows, shotguns, or snipers to having to constantly switch to their secondary when if they had picked a bullet hose at the beginning then it wouldn't even be a thought.

Nullifier bubbles should have more health, but no more "bubble gate" nonsense that requires people to deal up to and caps them at 400 damage, give the bubbles actual health, maybe a slow decay into where it pops but let's not create one problem by solving another.

 

Scrambus and Combus need to be visible, their range needs to be visible and their effects need to be obvious on sight in the middle of combat with all the lights popping off like the fourth of july it's rather bad, especially as a Nekros to suddenly have all your summons just erased because a scrambus or combus hates them.

I'd prefer if Nullifiers, Scrambus, and Combus instead of Removing buffs, disabled them, instead of deleting summons, banished them and put them in some sort of stasis until the bubble or scrambus/combus are gone.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2016 by achromos

[LSG501]

32 minutes ago, Scylax said:

. For an example, go play a void MD with Frost only to have your snow globe around the terminal (entirely intended use of snow globe) be instantly popped by a Nullifier jumping down from the next floor up that you didn't hear coming through all of the action.

Or even worse when a 'hidden' nullifier pops a part of the globe that is out of sight, say underneath the platform you're on, or they get you through the floor or a wall due to thier own bubble having the same 'pass through' aspect as snow globe.... this passing through walls aspect of both nullifiers and frost globe can make it so we can't actually do any of the 'get gud' approaches to dealing with nullifiers. 

 

I still say that nullifiers should 'cancel the ability to activate' and remove damage from any abilities inside the bubble.  They should not instantly remove abilities like frost globe, iron skin but instead do an amount of damage like standing in fire does. 

I also don't understand why it needs to be a shield too, you already have arctic units that produce snow globe type shields theres no need for the nullifier to have that ability AND the ability to wipe out our abilities.

[Krion112]

The moment the argument became about how 'fun' it is, it became a subjective one. That's why there's no issue at all, rather there's players that just simply don't enjoy the Nullifier and some that do. Design wise, Nullifiers are fine. They're not perfect, but their current functionality entirely fits with the game formula. After that, our player experiences vary.

And no, Nullifiers are not designed for ability cheese, it just seems like it because its particular functionality counters our faction strength. If you look to the formulaic design of Warframe, the Nullifier is a tool of manipulation and defense (ie, because its Null Bubble and Lanka force engagements, and those engagements take place on the turf of the Nullifier, where your powers don't work).

This is why Automatic weapons are the types designed to fight from outside their defenses; Offense counters Control (Manipulation), However, it remains difficult because Defense counters Offense, so you either have to go full aggression and enter the bubble, or deal with the bubble from outside using Support (Cephalon & Infested Weapons, some Tenno Weapons, etc) or using Offense.

Plus, combining the Control and Defense roles is the direct counter to the Mastery role, which is what the Tenno faction is.

My only issue with them is that Manipulative Defense should be countered by Aggressive Support, with Aggressive Support being Banshee and Sniper weapons (not Bows or the Lanka), because the Aggression counters Manipulation, and the Support counters Defense.

So no, no agreement. Objectively, Nullifiers do what they're supposed to and function fairly. Subjectively, you can either enjoy the particular type of game-play they offer, or you can not. If you start arguing in terms of 'fun', you'd fail to realize that there are people who do find Nullifiers to be fun, because fun is entirely subjective.

As such, when you're told not to play this content, it's a totally valid suggestion and not 'a work around'. Demanding significant change or removal for the Nullifier would be like saying "Change the Frost Warframe to be an Offense Warframe, because I don't have fun playing defensively, so he should be faster, more aggressive, no more snow-globe, overall an offense Warframe."

Edited September 5, 2016 by Krion112

[DrBorris]

33 minutes ago, Scylax said:

We're all tired -- some of the first, some of the second, and some of both. Can we all finally agree that instead of one perspective being right/wrong, that yes, ability cheese needs to be prevented, and, no, Nullifiers are not a good solution for what they're intended, and we need a better one? 

Actually, there is a decent group of people that think cheese is fine. They enjoy having nothing in their way because in their opinion, Warframe should be an extremely casual and easy game.

 

The bigger problem is that different people think Warframe should be a different game. Some think it should be difficult, some think it should be a cake walk, and the rest sit somewhere in the middle. And unfortunately because of DE's development strategy, we have absolutely no idea what kind of game they want it to be. Before we can go anywhere there needs to be a consensus on what Warframe should be as a game. It is irritating as hell to see people having an argument in a topic about nullifiers for example, but the argument about nullifiers is just a cover for an argument about difficulty.

The best solution is for DE to say "Warframe should be ____ difficult", but they would never do that because it would upset a large group of people. I don't even think DE knows how hard they want the game to be. So... these "balance" discussions will NEVER go anywhere because we will never be able to all point to exactly where the "balance" should be.

[taiiat]

2 minutes ago, achromos said:

Nullifier bubbles should have more health, but no more "bubble gate" nonsense that requires people to deal up to and caps them at 400 damage, give the bubbles actual health, maybe a slow decay into where it pops but let's not create one problem by solving another.

okay, let's go strictly Health based - instead of shrinking Nullifier Shields, now the Shield just has 2000 Health + 12,500 Health per Level.

10 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

I don't even think DE knows how hard they want the game to be. So... these "balance" discussions will NEVER go anywhere because we will never be able to all point to exactly where the "balance" should be.

there's 1/3 that certainly doesn't fit - the low third basically means so easy that it doesn't matter what you do, the Mission wins itself with or without you - and all you need to do is walk from the start to the end.

(that makes a s...ty game)
so then you're just left with the center and high third - which both are fine tbh, and can be supported in one game.

[Thunderblunder66]

As a Limbo player, I know the struggle of Nullies.

[BlackCoMerc]

21 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Actually, there is a decent group of people that think cheese is fine. They enjoy having nothing in their way because in their opinion, Warframe should be an extremely casual and easy game.

 

The bigger problem is that different people think Warframe should be a different game. Some think it should be difficult, some think it should be a cake walk, and the rest sit somewhere in the middle. And unfortunately because of DE's development strategy, we have absolutely no idea what kind of game they want it to be. Before we can go anywhere there needs to be a consensus on what Warframe should be as a game. It is irritating as hell to see people having an argument in a topic about nullifiers for example, but the argument about nullifiers is just a cover for an argument about difficulty.

The best solution is for DE to say "Warframe should be ____ difficult", but they would never do that because it would upset a large group of people. I don't even think DE knows how hard they want the game to be. So... these "balance" discussions will NEVER go anywhere because we will never be able to all point to exactly where the "balance" should be.

This view is contributing to the problem of discussion. Talks about Nullifiers are NOT veiled talks about difficulty. Why is it SO HARD to get that across? 

People complaining about Nullifiers are almost NEVER complaining about how hard they are. They complain because Nullifiers make whole swaths of weapons useless. They take away an entire facet of gameplay. The most unique one this game offers, no less. And if you are like e and mostly run Fissures and dailies, you see them on 90℅ or more of missions every day.

None of this has anything to do with challenge or Difficulty. It has everything to do with boredom, Repetitious load out and game play, and turning Warframe into a generic, no powers shooter.

[Top_Kekkonen]

Yes, couldn't agree more.

[Volinus7]

This game is designed from "bottom up" model not "top down" model.

It's like writing a manga without a storyboard of the whole story.

Warframe's balance is "One Piece", nobody knows what it looks like or what it is but everybody wants it.

 

 

Shhhhhh..... Listen...... don't tell anyone......

Spoiler

One Piece is Vor's Void key.......

 

[blackheartstar_pc]

49 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

This view is contributing to the problem of discussion. Talks about Nullifiers are NOT veiled talks about difficulty. Why is it SO HARD to get that across? 

People complaining about Nullifiers are almost NEVER complaining about how hard they are. They complain because Nullifiers make whole swaths of weapons useless. They take away an entire facet of gameplay. The most unique one this game offers, no less. And if you are like e and mostly run Fissures and dailies, you see them on 90℅ or more of missions every day.

None of this has anything to do with challenge or Difficulty. It has everything to do with boredom, Repetitious load out and game play, and turning Warframe into a generic, no powers shooter.

Reading this reply it sounds like it has a lot to do with difficulty. Everything you are complaining about here is in the path of making the game easier when engaging the Corps and Corrupted. Also boredom comment makes no sense as Nulifiers add the the enemy diversity and how you eliminate them.

Edited September 4, 2016 by blackheartstar_pc

[Bizzaro21]

the problem is that they didnt do jack sh*t for ability cheese as u can shoot their bubble out of existence with any typical bullet hose, and they f\ed snipers, intended power usage and slow ROF weapons styles over, while also leaving the dumbest 2 styles at the top, AKA auto weapons as a counter to them, and ability spam as it is

make them a copy paste of disruptor drones from LOR, there, we balanced the game`s biggest issue

[BlackCoMerc]

20 minutes ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

Reading this reply it sounds like it has a lot to do with difficulty. Everything you are complaining about here is in the path of making the game easier when engaging the Corps and Corrupted. Also boredom comment makes no sense as Nulifiers add the the enemy diversity and how you eliminate them.

Again, this is why we can't discuss the issue. People keep conflating Nullifiers and challenge. 

Even if Nullifiers added challenge - which they dont - there are better ways to do the job.

We don't want an easy ride. We want real, fair challenge, not a head fake that claims to be challenge but is really just a player gimp...

In other words, find a way to challenge players and leave fun, varied toolsets intact. Other games do it. Failing to is laziness.

[blackheartstar_pc]

2 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

 and leave fun, varied toolsets intact.

Fun is subjective as I think they are fine. I could argue that they add fun as I enjoy taking them down from inside the bubble.

I've also never purposely changed any of my loadouts because I knew they would be there. They do not force you to change your toolset. You choose to change them.

[letir]

Abilities balance and energy managment are completly after introduction Corrupted mods.

 

[Xzorn]

You can't really stop player cheese when we have so many options do to so.

This is the reason many games resort to "PvP sets" and similar restrictions to emulate balance.

The more options you allow the more interesting the game can be but it's also easier to break.

[Troll_Logic]

3 hours ago, Scylax said:

Now let's get to the actual problem: Nullifiers are really bad at stopping player cheese. They only (attempt to or do) prevent cheese in missions for two factions, so right off the bat they're an incomplete solution.

So your premise is "nullifiers are bad at stopping cheese" and your supporting point is "they appear in two factions."

So you want nullifiers in every faction?

3 hours ago, Scylax said:

On top of that, in addition to stopping cheese, they unintentionally hamper intended use of abilities.

That's why they exist.  Nothing unintentional about it.

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, Troll_Logic said:

So your premise is "nullifiers are bad at stopping cheese" and your supporting point is "they appear in two factions."

So you want nullifiers in every faction?

That's why they exist.  Nothing unintentional about it.

They rob the game of an ENTIRE FACET of game play. Warframe Powers are a big selling point of this game. And its most unique feature. Ok, other than some (not really that great) parkour, they are its only non cosmetic, unique feature. 

And the devs are removing them from 90% or more of missions veteran will experience in a day.

We literally may as well be playing Mass Effect at high levels and on Fissures. Or any generic third person shooter. Because for high level players on Sorties or running Fissures, we arent playing Warframe. 

See, Warframe features ranged and melee attacks with a wide variety of weapons, as well as powerful magical abilities.

Nullifier Frame - which is the game we are playing once we hit Fissure and late game territory - features ONLY high RoF weapons and armor. Melee isnt viable when sixteen Bombards and 59 ancients are sheltering under 9 Nullifier bubbles, with Comba and Scramba around the corner. Walking into that bubble is literal suicide. Likewise, Shotguns become useless. And Snipers become MORE useless, because apparently they needed that.

And Powers? The most unique facet of the game - and its biggest selling point? 

Useless.

Often, powers are unavailable when you need them at high levels or on Fissures. And that makes them unreliable. To build around. To depend on. To use. So right off the bat, you lose a wide variety of frames in late game and on Fissure runs. Especially Endless variants (not that staying for 15 is worth it; it isnt). 

So tell me, why are so many people okay with the game literally no longer being Warframe in the late game and on Fissure missions? Late game may as well be a different game with the same weapons. Its not Warframe. Its Null Frame.

And no, this isnt about that being HARD. There is nothing hard about using a multi forma Braton Prime on A Super Tanked Rhino and stomping even bubbles full of Nullifiers. 

Its about the fact that using full auto rifles and a heavy armored character while hunkering behind cover and around corners, slowly approaching a wall of superior enemy forces, is an experience I can get in A LOT of other shooters. And ALL OF THEM are better at that delivering that experience than Warframe. Literally every single shooter I can think is better at being a dedicated shooter than Warframe.

Warframe excels at being a horde shooter about magical space ninjas. That is literally THE ONLY SELLING POINT IT HAS over its competition. And yet so many of you are willing  to just throw that away late game. 

What we need are Warframe nerfs. I for one am willing to be slightly less powerful, in exchange for powers that ALWAYS work. No Nullifiers. No immunity. No strangely invulnerable bosses to artificially inflate time to kill. Reign in our power level some. Fine. Maybe then, we could balance the rest of the game and be able to count on consistency in terms of character behavior.

Because mechanical mess that is Warframe has become so awful that the game is literally two different games - a fun, fast paced, magical ninja action game in the early game. And a miserable, cheap, frustrating, control robbing generic shooter in the late game. 

And people wonder why we Warframe cant retain players. Between this, the constant nerfs to everything as soon as it stops selling or something better comes along, the miserable new player experience and the business model...its a wonder the game is retaining anyone right now. Old or new.

 

[Troll_Logic]

11 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

They rob the game of an ENTIRE FACET of game play. Warframe Powers are a big selling point of this game. And its most unique feature. Ok, other than some (not really that great) parkour, they are its only non cosmetic, unique feature. 

And the devs are removing them from 90% or more of missions veteran will experience in a day.

We literally may as well be playing Mass Effect at high levels and on Fissures. Or any generic third person shooter. Because for high level players on Sorties or running Fissures, we arent playing Warframe. 

See, Warframe features ranged and melee attacks with a wide variety of weapons, as well as powerful magical abilities.

Nullifier Frame - which is the game we are playing once we hit Fissure and late game territory - features ONLY high RoF weapons and armor. Melee isnt viable when sixteen Bombards and 59 ancients are sheltering under 9 Nullifier bubbles, with Comba and Scramba around the corner. Walking into that bubble is literal suicide. Likewise, Shotguns become useless. And Snipers become MORE useless, because apparently they needed that.

And Powers? The most unique facet of the game - and its biggest selling point? 

Useless.

Often, powers are unavailable when you need them at high levels or on Fissures. And that makes them unreliable. To build around. To depend on. To use. So right off the bat, you lose a wide variety of frames in late game and on Fissure runs. Especially Endless variants (not that staying for 15 is worth it; it isnt). 

So tell me, why are so many people okay with the game literally no longer being Warframe in the late game and on Fissure missions? Late game may as well be a different game with the same weapons. Its not Warframe. Its Null Frame.

And no, this isnt about that being HARD. There is nothing hard about using a multi forma Braton Prime on A Super Tanked Rhino and stomping even bubbles full of Nullifiers. 

Its about the fact that using full auto rifles and a heavy armored character while hunkering behind cover and around corners, slowly approaching a wall of superior enemy forces, is an experience I can get in A LOT of other shooters. And ALL OF THEM are better at that delivering that experience than Warframe. Literally every single shooter I can think is better at being a dedicated shooter than Warframe.

Warframe excels at being a horde shooter about magical space ninjas. That is literally THE ONLY SELLING POINT IT HAS over its competition. And yet so many of you are willing  to just throw that away late game. 

What we need are Warframe nerfs. I for one am willing to be slightly less powerful, in exchange for powers that ALWAYS work. No Nullifiers. No immunity. No strangely invulnerable bosses to artificially inflate time to kill. Reign in our power level some. Fine. Maybe then, we could balance the rest of the game and be able to count on consistency in terms of character behavior.

Because mechanical mess that is Warframe has become so awful that the game is literally two different games - a fun, fast paced, magical ninja action game in the early game. And a miserable, cheap, frustrating, control robbing generic shooter in the late game. 

And people wonder why we Warframe cant retain players. Between this, the constant nerfs to everything as soon as it stops selling or something better comes along, the miserable new player experience and the business model...its a wonder the game is retaining anyone right now. Old or new.

 

I'm not reading that.  You put forth the same arguments every time.

[Thrymm]

4 hours ago, Krion112 said:

The moment the argument became about how 'fun' it is, it became a subjective one. That's why there's no issue it all, rather there's players that just simply don't enjoy the Nullifier and some that do. Design wise, Nullifiers are fine. They're not perfect, but their current functionality entirely fits with the game formula. After that, our player experiences vary.

And no, Nullifiers are not designed for ability cheese, it just seems like it because its particular functionality counters our faction strength. If you look to the formulaic design of Warframe, the Nullifier is a tool of manipulation and defense (ie, because its Null Bubble and Lanka force engagements, and those engagements take place on the turf of the Nullifier, where your powers don't work).

This is why Automatic weapons are the types designed to fight from outside their defenses; Offense counters Control (Manipulation), However, it remains difficult because Defense counters Offense, so you either have to go full aggression and enter the bubble, or deal with the bubble from outside using Support (Cephalon & Infested Weapons, some Tenno Weapons, etc) or using Offense.

Plus, combining the Control and Defense roles is the direct counter to the Mastery role, which is what the Tenno faction is.

My only issue with them is that Manipulative Defense should be countered by Aggressive Support, with Aggressive Support being Banshee and Sniper weapons (not Bows or the Lanka), because the Aggression counters Manipulation, and the Support counters Defense.

So no, no agreement. Objectively, Nullifiers do what they're supposed to and function fairly. Subjectively, you can either enjoy the particular type of game-play they offer, or you can not. If you start arguing in terms of 'fun', you'd fail to realize that there are people who do find Nullifiers to be fun, because fun is entirely subjective.

As such, when you're told not to play this content, it's a totally valid suggestion and not 'a work around'. Demanding significant change or removal for the Nullifier would be like saying "Change the Frost Warframe to be an Offense Warframe, because I don't have fun playing defensively, so he should be faster, more aggressive, no more snow-globe, overall an offense Warframe."

Uh.....wow.

1.  Yes, fun is subjective.  Just as subjective as the statement "nullifiers are fine" after stating that those who think they are not are merely stating an opinion.

In my opinion, nullifiers are not fine.

2.  Yes, actually, nullifiers where specifically designed to combat ability "cheese".  It's literally the item that they where designed for.  At the point in history that nullifiers came into the picture, #4 abilities where clearing entire rooms en masse, and as a matter of "cheese" where the item being used to reach higher level survival and defense missions while removing virtually all difficulty.  They where introduced to break this up and force other things to be used.

3.  Automatic weapons are the useful item because the original bubble was reduced in size solely by being hit, so frequency of hit mattered more than any weapon.  Damage in no way increased this bubble reduction.  Player feedback created the situation in which bubbles where reduced more by a greater damage.  This damage was capped at a level that continues to remove lower fire rate weapons from the equation.

   A person could assert that there was some strategic reason for this, but that seems to fall straight into the subjective category as well.  This is especially true when considering that higher fire rate weapons are almost universally more useful in the entirety of the game, meaning that low fire rate weapons are further marginalized by the nullifier design.  Given that everyone can equip a melee weapon along side their choice of primary/secondary, the fact that this can also be used to defeat a nullifier is hardly a rebuttal to the above.

4.  Being told to not play this content is garbage.  A raw, undiluted cesspool of poor thought.

  Why?  It's pretty simple, actually.  To state that a person can avoid nullifier content by simply not playing is stating that a person should avoid any prime item missions(all have nullifiers available), a person should avoid any kind of event/one off style mission such as the current Darvo defenses(the later of which are filled with nullifiers), and should avoid nearly all Corpus missions, where the nullifier originates.

   Congratulations, any genius that suggests simply avoiding this unit has suggest that a person not play half or more of the game, not progress in gear, and continue to play less and less as the nullifier continues to grow into increasingly more areas of the game, and in increasing populations.

 

   People that do not like nullifiers are, in some cases, suggesting that they will quit the game to avoid dealing with them.  People that like them are essentially suggesting that a person quit the game to avoid playing against them.  At least there is agreement on something.

Subjective opinions or not, I'd hazard a guess that more people would quit the game due to the presence of nullifiers than would quit if they disappeared entirely.

Heck, I'm sitting here writing this post instead of doing the Forma Blueprint "Corpus Bust" mission.  Is it because I cannot finish it?  No.  It's because I'm tired of ten second screen mess from magnetic procs coupled with nullifiers everywhere. 

Enemy ability cheese screws up the game just as much as player ability cheese, and I'm taking the simple advice------I'm not playing it.

[blackheartstar_pc]

I do not believe at all that they were created to combat ability spamming. Unless DE can be quoted as stating as much I will continue to believe that they are just another enemy type to add variety pulled from the cliche enemy types of other games. Force shields and enemies that have nullifying abilities are not new.

[bl4ckhunter]

the main problem with nullifiers is that, just like sapping ospreys, they're spammed all over the $%&$£ place, rule number one of special units, don't spam the $%&/ of them all over the place, they're special, there shouldn't be more than two nullifiers on a tile at any time and the bubbles absolutely shouldn't touch and/or overlap.

Second problem is that for something meant to block ABILITY spam they counter WEAPONS too damn well, a simple solution would be to make the bubble store weapon damage accumulated and explode in an AoE when popped for the damage stored, that way players with ammo inefficient weapons/snipers won't feel completely cheated.

Third, nullifiers should be prevented from jumping ledges with the bubble active and the bubble should be limited by LoS as someone else suggested or at least by walls, nullifiers nullifying you from safety behind walls or dropping like candy from the sky just should not be happening 

[AzyWng]

I haven't taken the time to read all of the walls of text aside from the first three posts (including the OP). And there have been several walls of text present. That suggests that everyone who wrote them didn't read the forum title (or didn't have the same definition of "bickering", I suppose).

Just wanna say that first before putting up my own wall to protect myself from the salt/acid/harmful materials coming my way (irony noted).

I also wanna get this out of the way: I don't exactly have very many credentials that make the better person to listen to, except maybe playing this game on and off for quite a number of years on mainly early-game content, and writing a (slightly) smaller wall of text than those before me, if one that's less coherent. But hopefully you'll be able to read through my two cents after having to slog through the minting machine explosions that are the previous posts.

Now then...
 

Spoiler

Warframe is mostly described as a third-person shooter game (when it's not being described in a comical, insulting, or comically insulting manner). That means this game is about shooting stuff. Indeed, there are the powers and energy meter located right below the ammo counter (i.e. they're important), but none of those powers are bound to the left mouse button by default. They're bound to keys 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 (for the ability you get after completing The Second Dream).

While powers are certainly very useful, they are not to be completely relied on. Tenno are masters of blade and gun, not the masters of their supernatural powers (yet). The wiki page on the Tenno, under the Origin section (WARNING: Second Dream Spoilers) dictates that the Tenno powers needed to be controlled, and that these powers were dangerous were dangerous when uncontrolled. That was why the Warframes were created; the Tenno need the Warframes just to control their own powers. They haven't yet developed to the point where Tenno can cast them completely unhampered (like I said, none of the powers are bound to the left mouse button).

TL;DR: Tenno powers, while useful, are not completely essential as long as players have their other weapons at hand. If they were made completely essential it might not make sense lore-wise (and it might remove some of the variety in playstyles that is available today). While I can understand why many people are angry at losing their Tenno powers because they stood in the wrong spot, I wouldn't necessarily say the game is 100% ruined because of a lack of powers.

To modify part of the beginning of this thread: "The warrior who depends on his powers can fight no better than a man who depends on his crutch can walk." Warframe is (and probably always will be) a shooter. While there's a huge level of customization available from appearance to gameplay builds, there are still limits, and depending on any one game mechanic will ultimately cause a good deal of grief (as has been seen).

Edited September 4, 2016 by AzyWng
Turned the quote into a spoiler.