What if there were actual assassinations?

[(PSN)official_79]

Assassinations in their current state are simply boss fights and don't resemble an actual assassination in the way you would think them to be (Sniping someone from a distance, poisoning their food, etc.) and I think a new mission type revolving around the idea of stealth and a single high priority target would be a healthy addition to the game, as the only real use for stealth in this game is in spy missions. This would give new meaning to snipers, bows, and the current and future stealth frames

Basically a combination of Spy and Capture :P 

[Phatose]

Adding Stealth centric missions while stealth still amounts to "Use loki" would be awfully premature.

[Iamnotanoob]

This would deprive bosses of thier actual fight modes like kela de thym has rannthum arena.

And also farmes drop from bosses so it wont be fun anymore to run them again.

 

Edited September 8, 2016 by Iamnotanoob

[BornWithTeeth]

I would like an assassination mission to involve requiring absolute stealth, where your objective is to kill one target and only one during the whole mission. No dead guards, no dead bystanders, nothing, just one dead VIP, and nobody saw anything.

 

'cos ninja.

[(PSN)official_79]

36 minutes ago, Iamnotanoob said:

This would deprive bosses of thier actual fight modes like kela de thym has rannthum arena.

And also farmes drop from bosses so it wont be fun anymore to run them again.

 

Their could still be the regular boss fights, what im suggesting is a new mission type where you assassinate a target in a stealthy manner. You would assassinate some random target in the same way capture has you capture a random target

[Kinetos]

7 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I would like an assassination mission to involve requiring absolute stealth, where your objective is to kill one target and only one during the whole mission. No dead guards, no dead bystanders, nothing, just one dead VIP, and nobody saw anything.

 

'cos ninja.

Or have that be the "bonus points" condition and just have alarms turned off and no alert enemies be the "well, you technically succeeded, but no bonus points" requirement for extraction. 

Edit, and alarms before the assassination would make the target run like a capture target to a safe zone. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by KinetosImpetus

[Sixty5]

It would honestly be pretty boring. 

You'd end up rushing through a mission while invisible, or while ignoring enemies, then you'd hack a panel press 1 button to kill the target and then run out. 

You could add a fortified room for the guy to hide in, but then you just have a single objective spy mission. 

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

28 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I would like an assassination mission to involve requiring absolute stealth, where your objective is to kill one target and only one during the whole mission. No dead guards, no dead bystanders, nothing, just one dead VIP, and nobody saw anything.

 

'cos ninja.

So another mission type players just solo with Loki?

I don't think WF is really suited to stealth, I know ninjas but it's not really a sneaky game. No objection to them adding more stealth options, as long as it is optional and I can just run through invisible at worst but I wouldn't want to see an MGS style mission.

[TheVeiledScion]

Would love it. Of course you'd need ways to limit the ability of cloaking frames to just bypass things, but I could see actual assassination missions, especially since we've got a whole faction (Red Veil) dedicated to the idea.

Of course, the idea should be to separate the current Boss Fight "Assassinations" from actual assassination missions, rather than scrapping the former.

[Inarticulate]

Real high-security facilities.

Ability nullification areas over high-value doorways.

Networks of vents and alternate pathways.

Armored cameras.

Enemies on alert and trained to immediately activate the alarm.

Instantaneous lockdown on alarm. Lockdown spawns multiple assassins (i.e. Manic, Bursa) with sortie-type hazard applied to room.

Triggering lockdowns increases enemy alertness in later rooms.

Your Loki won't save you this time.

 

I can see it happen.

[tutzdes]

Uranus Sabotage.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

while a nice idea, I'd rather stick with the boss fights. reason being that we need some really big bad guys that are actually a challenge for us ( a boss, not a common enemy type). Bosses can often make a game what it is. what would Mario be without Bowser? or Kratos without all the Greek gods?

besides, it wouldn't be fitting if these Grineer higher-ups like Sargas Ruk and Tyl Regor didn't have powerful augments, and a desire to kill Tenno in single combat. one thing you gotta admit about Grineer: Cowardice is totally foreign to them, they would rather die a glorious death on the battlefield than in a corner crying. plus their bodies are degenerating anyway, so what do they have to lose? I would expect Corpus to let their machines do all the fighting for them, hopefully Nef Anyo's reworked boss fight (whenever it comes) will feature his Razorback, now THAT was a proper killer robot!

 

 

[Wandrecanada]

3 hours ago, (PS4)official_79 said:

Assassinations in their current state are simply boss fights and don't resemble an actual assassination in the way you would think them to be (Sniping someone from a distance, poisoning their food, etc.) and I think a new mission type revolving around the idea of stealth and a single high priority target would be a healthy addition to the game, as the only real use for stealth in this game is in spy missions. This would give new meaning to snipers, bows, and the current and future stealth frames

Basically a combination of Spy and Capture :P 

I think your post suggests covert assassinations. They are still assassinations as long as you kill your target. It's not really wrong to call them that.

Suggesting a covert assassination game mode in the new thread asking for new game mode ideas would be a great opportunity to get your idea in the game.

Head over to this thread and put up your ideas!

[Arniox]

3 hours ago, (PS4)official_79 said:

Assassinations in their current state are simply boss fights and don't resemble an actual assassination in the way you would think them to be (Sniping someone from a distance, poisoning their food, etc.) and I think a new mission type revolving around the idea of stealth and a single high priority target would be a healthy addition to the game, as the only real use for stealth in this game is in spy missions. This would give new meaning to snipers, bows, and the current and future stealth frames

Basically a combination of Spy and Capture :P 

YES. YES PLEASE.

DE PLZ. this would be like dishonored all over again except in space... with guns... with powers....

[Beggining]

3 hours ago, Phatose said:

Adding Stealth centric missions while stealth still amounts to "Use loki" would be awfully premature.

Ah, umm...

...w-we have Ivara :D and Equinox Night too, maybe!

And @(PS4)official_79, I think this'll be a great idea for Capture missions instead: that way we still have the atmospheric fights for Bosses, and lose that stupid chase scene we have right now >.>

Break into their fortifications, geat near the target (alert or unalerted) and press x to kick them down and activate teleporter (that way, we get to avoid that stupid amount of health too)

[AuroraSonicBoom]

We don't even have a game mechanic that can apply to all missions and gives you some form of benefit as long as you're undetected. Stealth XP is not enough in that case.

[Mastikator2]

3 hours ago, Phatose said:

Adding Stealth centric missions while stealth still amounts to "Use loki" would be awfully premature.

Spy is a stealth centric mission and it works fine without invisibility once you get the hang of it.

An "actual assassin" mission would basically just be a combo of spy and capture.

[Volinus7]

The current assassination is kinda on concept....

1.Bosses don't even know where we are because we perma-stealth

2.We kill them in one shot (if they don't have HP gates)

3.We run out immediately 

 

Best assassination weapon? Your choice of shotgun covered with space magic so nobody will hear a thing while being blowed into molecules.

 

sarcasm aside.... 

This game doesn't have enough stealth based element.

Yeah something like Thief or Metal Gear Solid.

Distraction

Shadow

Obstacles

corpse/body management

map design

 

[(XBOX)A Nekros Prime]

I've had an idea like this for awhile.Basically like any other mission you start off but these missions would only occur in an outdoors tile set.What you have to do is get through the stage to get to a certain vantage point(trigger the alarms once is a game over so use stealth).When at the vantage point,over a large distance is the target and which you have to snipe.But now you're going to say,"But what if I don't have a sniper,"then somewhere in the level there will be a weapons cache room but the only weapon you can only pick up is a sniper(depending on what faction vulker if grineer and snipetron if corpus).The snipers will act like a energy core(drops when swapping weapons).when using on the target,it's a insta kill on headshot or 2-3 shots on body.After killing the target,it becomes a mini exterminate(no witnesses)then extract

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

8 hours ago, Inarticulate said:

Real high-security facilities.

Ability nullification areas over high-value doorways.

Networks of vents and alternate pathways.

Armored cameras.

Enemies on alert and trained to immediately activate the alarm.

Instantaneous lockdown on alarm. Lockdown spawns multiple assassins (i.e. Manic, Bursa) with sortie-type hazard applied to room.

Triggering lockdowns increases enemy alertness in later rooms.

Your Loki won't save you this time.

 

I can see it happen.

That's like the exact opposite of Warframe though isn't it, that's just MGS. It deviates so far from the template it would get the same sort of backlash as Archwing. Variety is one thing but putting square pegs into round holes is something else.

Spy seems to be tolerated simply because Loki and Ivara negate a lot of the headaches. I honestly don't think the majority of the player base would be happy if they were forced to slowly creep around levels like Solid Snake, it's not what warframe is about.

 

[Silvus-Sol]

1 hour ago, (PS4)obsidiancurse said:

That's like the exact opposite of Warframe though isn't it, that's just MGS. It deviates so far from the template it would get the same sort of backlash as Archwing. Variety is one thing but putting square pegs into round holes is something else.

Spy seems to be tolerated simply because Loki and Ivara negate a lot of the headaches. I honestly don't think the majority of the player base would be happy if they were forced to slowly creep around levels like Solid Snake, it's not what warframe is about.

 

Saying it's the "exact opposite" is a bit of a stretch. Warframe has always had stealth elements. And playing in a stealthy manner is completely viable on pretty much any non-endless mission type. Just because your generic PUG will usually run and gun and gotta go fast like sonic doesn't mean that more stealth centric mission types can't be added to the game. I admit some of the suggestions made were a bit much, but your acting as if all stealth is some horrible horrible cancer, which it isn't. It might not be your cup of tea but plenty of players do enjoy it.

It's frustrating seeing people shut down any suggestion from every angle.

"Idea sux because people will just use Loki and make it boring"

"If Loki can't speedrun it then it's too hard and doesn't belong"

Right... how about instead of making the potential mission based on what the laziest common denominator would do, they make the mission based on what could be a little different and fun. If you get too sucked into trying to balance around the people who might cheese it then it will take forever to finish and the end result will be terrible.  A mission with both Spy and Capture elements sounds pretty cool to me. I think it's worth DE thinking about it if they haven't already.

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Silvus-Sol

[PinkInaros]

I totally agree.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

3 hours ago, Silvus-Sol said:

Saying it's the "exact opposite" is a bit of a stretch. Warframe has always had stealth elements. And playing in a stealthy manner is completely viable on pretty much any non-endless mission type. Just because your generic PUG will usually run and gun and gotta go fast like sonic doesn't mean that more stealth centric mission types can't be added to the game. I admit some of the suggestions made were a bit much, but your acting as if all stealth is some horrible horrible cancer, which it isn't. It might not be your cup of tea but plenty of players do enjoy it.

It's frustrating seeing people shut down any suggestion from every angle.

"Idea sux because people will just use Loki and make it boring"

"If Loki can't speedrun it then it's too hard and doesn't belong"

Right... how about instead of making the potential mission based on what the laziest common denominator would do, they make the mission based on what could be a little different and fun. If you get too sucked into trying to balance around the people who might cheese it then it will take forever to finish and the end result will be terrible.  A mission with both Spy and Capture elements sounds pretty cool to me. I think it's worth DE thinking about it if they haven't already.

 

I have already said in this thread that I have no problem with extra stealth as long as it's optional and people that don't like it can bypass to a certain extent it with Loki and ivara.

I was responding to someone who suggested negating them frames with nullifier door ways etc. they actually said that Loki would not help. That's what I object to, lack of choice and being forced to approach the mission in a certain way. Lack of choice/options is anti warframe in my opinion and I don't think I'm the only one. It's why nullifiers are generally despised, they are not difficult, they just reduce choice. I don't care if certain players want to take 3hrs per level, creeping about and hiding in cardboard boxes, if that's their thing, good luck to them. Just don't inflict it on those that don't like stealth, let them bomb through with Loki and then go do something they enjoy. That way everybody wins. Choice is good.

[Xaxma]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)obsidiancurse said:

I have already said in this thread that I have no problem with extra stealth as long as it's optional and people that don't like it can bypass to a certain extent it with Loki and ivara.

I was responding to someone who suggested negating them frames with nullifier door ways etc. they actually said that Loki would not help. That's what I object to, lack of choice and being forced to approach the mission in a certain way. Lack of choice/options is anti warframe in my opinion and I don't think I'm the only one. It's why nullifiers are generally despised, they are not difficult, they just reduce choice. I don't care if certain players want to take 3hrs per level, creeping about and hiding in cardboard boxes, if that's their thing, good luck to them. Just don't inflict it on those that don't like stealth, let them bomb through with Loki and then go do something they enjoy. That way everybody wins. Choice is good.

That's asinine. Choice should also imply a challenge to a reasonable degree. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't find peace feeling like my option to approach stealth according to its intended design is suddenly negated because I honestly could have just Loki'd through the mission the whole time.

A mission like this will require a delicate touch to balance and design, but I believe it can be done. There's nothing wrong with grabbing the appropriate frame for the appropriate mission; in fact, it's encouraged, since that will promote diversity in tools and skill sets, but the advantage one has over another in a particular mission shouldn't be so heavily negated to a simple cheese-fest just because some people don't like that particular mission type.

They're trying to gradually and systematically do away with cheese, and frankly, I don't want that to be a reoccurring theme either. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Xaxma

[AhziDahaka]

This post wound up getting really long so um, my apologies.  I got to typing and this all just sorta starting falling out of my brain.

 

The problem with stealth in this game is that some frames are just far too geared towards it while others are far too geared away from it.  There is no way to make a glove that fits all these different hands with the game as it is.

I think the only way to make a stealth-based assassination mission really work would be to create whole new tilesets for it.  Instead of some military vessel, set it in areas that are mostly-populated with non-military personnel, like offices and public spaces--the assassination targets being people that are very important but have low or nonexistent combat skills (scientists, diplomats, treasurers, etc.).  Instead of rushing through open spaces while invisible and/or stabbing everything that moves in the back, you have to navigate all the ventilation ducts, maintenance crawlspaces, rooftops, sewers, etc., to keep out of sight.  The moment you find yourself out in the open, it's mission failure.  The moment you kill someone you're not supposed to, it's mission failure.  Being merely spotted by security in one of those back passages you're sneaking through might close off certain paths or make upcoming hacking puzzles and such more difficult, but at the same time the security personnel are not going to want to cause an uproar themselves so no swarms of bad guys tailing you suddenly.  Anyone you knock out or kill does not disintegrate either (no tech on them to keep out of enemy hands) so bodies stick around and if someone spots it then that's basically like being seen, so anyone you incapacitate has to be hidden somewhere.

Instead of being linear--go from point A to point B--you have the assassination target walking around freely through a map that loops around on itself, going about their business.  Intelligence acquired from the Lotus would allow you to know approximately where your target is and what they are most likely doing (maybe they're attending a gala, or they retire to their private quarters after a certain time in the evening, etc.).  Depending on the circumstances, you can try different methods (you can't just snap his neck if he's at a party, but you can poison his drink).  Special stealth tools would be assigned to you that you would access as gear (such as a robotic fly that can place poisons remotely, a tracking device, X-ray scope, etc.).  The less evidence you leave, the more bonus credits/affinity/endo/whatever you get.

You'd be able to adapt it to other types of stealth missions easily enough--grabbing that disk full of R&D data or classified communications, capturing a target, so on and so forth.  If crap really hits the fan in an event or something down the road, you could even have missions where you do get to fight openly in these areas--against infestation.

As for the Loki Problem, it's simple: warframe powers aren't allowed on these missions, because they leave behind "energy residue".  There's already lore that supports this in a communication your Liset can intercept that has one Grineer telling a ship captain that such energy residue strongly indicates a Tenno was on his ship.  Since part of the whole point of the mission is for the act to be as hard as possible to trace back to the Lotus and the Tenno, and leaving behind a trail of energy residue would be a blatant giveaway, no cloaking for Loki.

 

 

In short, to make stealth missions really work, I believe you'd need to make tilesets and gameplay mechanics that totally forego combat and are tailor-made for players using their brains--planning out the mission in advance, solving puzzles, etc.

Thanks for putting up with my stream of conciousness P: