Why is the Galatine prime completely better than the Scindo prime?

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Because it's MR13 and scindo MR4. They said they will properly reassign mastery requirements, so new weapons tend to get proper MR requirement. 

[RealPandemonium]

Just powerceep.  Still, use whichever you prefer aesthetically; the game isn't that hard.

[venon23]

On 11/09/2016 at 2:58 AM, (PS4)official_79 said:

From looking at the stats the galatine prime is 100% better than the scindo prime. There must be some hidden value that gives the scindo an advantage over Galatine. My only thought would be the execution mult. since the scindo was an executioner's weapon, but I cant tell that by looking at the in game stats. If not then I gotta admit the power creep with the new weapons coming out is ruining the game, now there is no reason to use Scindo P over Galatine P, or any reason to use Dakra P over Broken War or Dragon Nikana over Nikana Prime outside of preference.

why is tonkor better then fluxrifle ??
 

[(PSN)official_79]

55 minutes ago, venon23 said:

why is tonkor better then fluxrifle ??
 

These are two completely different weapons in different categories, not direct upgrades like the examples I provided.

Scindo and galatine are both heavy blades, broken war and dakra prime are both swords, etc.

[Jakorak]

On 9/10/2016 at 9:58 PM, (PS4)official_79 said:

From looking at the stats the galatine prime is 100% better than the scindo prime. There must be some hidden value that gives the scindo an advantage over Galatine. My only thought would be the execution mult. since the scindo was an executioner's weapon, but I cant tell that by looking at the in game stats. If not then I gotta admit the power creep with the new weapons coming out is ruining the game, now there is no reason to use Scindo P over Galatine P, or any reason to use Dakra P over Broken War or Dragon Nikana over Nikana Prime outside of preference.

hmmm someone's late to the realization. power creep has always been part of this game and always will be unless HUGE fundamental changes to how the entire game work are implemented.

On your original question: Galatine is better than Scindo. Scindo Prime is better than Scindo. Galatine Prime is better than Galatine. Pretty obviously, Galatine Prime is better than Scindo Prime. get over it

[Racter]

I really don't understand all the crying about this. Are you fighting level 250+ enemies every day? No? Then the difference does not matter to you. The Galatine P could do 5x, 10x, 100x it's current damage and it would mean literally nothing if you do not fight enemies in this neighborhood. Scindo easily destroys sortie tier mobs, that's as high as you are expected to go, nothing beyond that matters. There aren't even rewarding endless missions to try and justify going that far anymore, either.  Besides that, none of the heavy blade weapons are top so it wasn't even actual power creep.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Racter0325
Typo

[(PSN)official_79]

3 hours ago, Racter0325 said:

I really don't understand all the crying about this. Are you fighting level 250+ enemies every day? No? Then the difference does not matter to you. The Galatine P could do 5x, 10x, 100x it's current damage and it would mean literally nothing if you do not fight enemies in this neighborhood. Galatine easily destroys sortie tier mobs, that's as high as you are expected to go, nothing beyond that matters. There aren't even rewarding endless missions to try and justify going that far anymore, either.  Besides that, none of the heavy blade weapons are top so it wasn't even actual power creep.

No power creep you say?

So are the debates between the Dragon Nikana and Dakra Prime still going on?

hell no, both of those weapons have been replaced by easier to get upgrades. The numbers cannot be denied, there is definitely power creep going on here. 

[Racter]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)official_79 said:

No power creep you say?

So are the debates between the Dragon Nikana and Dakra Prime still going on?

hell no, both of those weapons have been replaced by easier to get upgrades. The numbers cannot be denied, there is definitely power creep going on here. 

>The point

>Your head

Same exact situation. Dakra P or Dragon Nikana can still go far past what DE apparently considers reasonable for us.

[RealPandemonium]

5 hours ago, Racter0325 said:

Besides that, none of the heavy blade weapons are top so it wasn't even actual power creep.

The powercreep still matters in this case because it does make things easier for players who are bad at the game or who mod improperly, and makes it so that any time DE experiments with extremes during events/sorties/whatever, these new and ever-mounting outlier weapons will ensure that none of it remotely matters.  

[Racter]

Just now, RealPandemonium said:

The powercreep still matters in this case because it does make things easier for players who are bad at the game or who mod improperly, and makes it so that any time DE experiments with extremes during events/sorties/whatever, these new and ever-mounting outlier weapons will ensure that none of it remotely matters.  

This is a reasonable counter argument I haven't heard before, but having missed most of the events while on breaks I can't really put a frame of reference on this. I think the last one I did was Cryotic Front? (~13k) and no melee weapon, barring Covert Lethality or the gas stacking bug would have a prayer of killing in that situation. I would agree that they definitely have the potential to push the average score higher, though. Could you give me a more specific example?

[(PSN)DBR87]

Galatine Prime is Mr 13

Scindo Prime is Mr 4

That means at MR 4 you can get ONE of THE most powerful melee weapons in the game. At MR 13 you get THE most powerful melee weapon in the game.

And the only time Galatine Prime's power is going to matter is when you're fighting enemies above level 150.

Who does this now? Especially after the Void Rework. No one. Scindo Prime still slaughters everything in Sortie 1-3.

We have no content to play currently that even requires the power Galatine Prime brings. So seeing how it requires far more mastery rank to build and we have no content requiring it's power, it's really not as Power Creep as people might think.

The majority of players now fight Void Fissure level 40 enemies and maybe some level 80 enemies if farming relics for long periods doing Excavation; all content Scindo P slaughters.

So at the end of the day...who cares? No one really should.

[venon23]

16 hours ago, (PS4)official_79 said:

These are two completely different weapons in different categories, not direct upgrades like the examples I provided.

Scindo and galatine are both heavy blades, broken war and dakra prime are both swords, etc.

still makes no sence they are difrent weapons one is more crit and other more status
the thing is weapons are difrent no matter if they are in the same categoris ore not  and what u create in ur mind is that weapon is better cuz have better stats well they are but the more and new things came out they are allways better soo ur point is ???

also

PS flux rifle was one of the best weapons in game thats why i made the comparasion if u were a old player u did get the joke but..........

Edited September 13, 2016 by venon23

[Twistedsparkle]

I think scindo would be awesome if they buffed its attack speed past galatine prime

[RealPandemonium]

On 9/12/2016 at 10:56 PM, Racter0325 said:

This is a reasonable counter argument I haven't heard before, but having missed most of the events while on breaks I can't really put a frame of reference on this. I think the last one I did was Cryotic Front? (~13k) and no melee weapon, barring Covert Lethality or the gas stacking bug would have a prayer of killing in that situation. I would agree that they definitely have the potential to push the average score higher, though. Could you give me a more specific example?

I think the main focus should be historical.  Remember back before the syndicate/Tonkor weapons era, when Boltor Prime was considered the cutting edge of weapons at first, and things started to get out of control from there?  That was a time of relative balance (at least compared to what we have now) in Warframe.  Pretty much all weapons were T4-viable, and the Sortie/Raid level content we have now was a comfortable endpoint for top-level equipment, at least in terms of time-to-kill (warframe abilities make all content a trivial matter of tedium, of course.)  Now, that level 100 Bombard?  One-shotted, courtesy of new weapons that are way stronger than they need to be.  One of the major issues with this game is that we can just one-shot everything, and powercreeping weapons is not helping with that.  The more extreme things get, the more DE will have to dial things back when they actually address this problem in the future, and the more associated backlash there will be.

Edited September 14, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[Godzilla853]

On September 11, 2016 at 0:40 AM, Eldritchkitty said:

I don't really care if Galatine Prime is the best heavy blade, it was one of the strongest and funnest melee weapons long before the edge lord sword/War existed. I use Tempo Royals because it's gunner than cleaving whirlwind and I don't have to minmax to be effective. That's all there is to it. Stronger weapons should be higher on the MR track too, so this is a good start to that. Now we just need more of an endgame.

I agree we need more weapons on a higher mastery rank and with that mastery rank is better weapons.

[(PSN)cbrstar]

Better question... How the heck can people move and even run with the Galatine? It's so cartoonishly long it sticks past the ground.

(I know it's based on some medieval long sword, but common they weren't slung over their backs like that!)

[Aglethe]

On 9/11/2016 at 8:18 PM, ScorpioneITA said:

One thing, what's the builds for these weapons? Raw dps and attack speed? is channeled on?

Also you would have to pull off the whole combo to achieve the damage something like fragor P achieves in 1 big slide attack? your dps may be at 340k but whats the single hit damage? You're saying without the combo I am looking not at 340k galatine, but at less than 80k galatine. Also you're not going to be hitting your enemy everysecond. due to spawn location travel time etc. That making thus dps pointless has some have stated before. Having actually used fragor P vs armor etc and not just theory craft, It can struggle at the very begging of a 0 combo vs an arso corrupted gunner level 100+ no armor or shattering impact helps in that regard or, if using valkyr/wukong allows me to trigger finishers on enemy, where fragor would easily do well over 90k, eliminating its need of shattering impact ever or life steal. the 2400% finisher multiplier just from its hammer exclusivity easily tackles some ''issues'' you would encounter in a mission. Not just relying on fanta dps vs fanta no armor no damage reduction mob presence.

If you soley take numbers into account, the higher the combo multiplier is, the more damage fragor P would do in a slide scenario compared to combo dps.

 

Forgot to mention channel on fragor prime is not the standard 50% 1.5 but its a 1.8 multiplier.

 

Also all dps go to hell if you throw covert lethality in the mix, making daggers the highest dpsing melee weapons.

 

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, been a rough week. ;) 

The builds are the same that Dunking Machine originally used, with the exception of Prime Pressure Point replace the normal version (it wasn't out yet when he did his comparisons). So it's basically it's this (PPP, Berserker, 2 90% elementals, Bloodrush, Body Count, Organ Shatter, True Steel). With the excetion of the Karyst that swaps True Steel for Covert Lethality (well, really, it swaps Prime Pressure Point out for Covert Lethality, then it swaps True Steel out for PPP). It's mostly just a raw dps paper build, yes.

The dps is the average you'll get while spamming that combo. As far as I'm aware, you can't solve for the damage of quick attacks because no one has worked out the attack speed for them (the attack speed the arsenal shows for a weapon is just another percentage modifier like a built in fury or spoiled strike), so the only real dps figures we can solve for are the ones that Dunking Machine covered. Broken Bull is kind of a clunky pain in the arse to use though, yeah.

Yes, slide attacks are one area where Fragor P will actually outdamage the Galatine P, but the Galatine does have decent slide attack damage unlike most heavy blades and it has a larger slide attack hitbox than the Fragor P, so I guess you could still say it's a bit of a trade off.

As far as vs high levels of armour goes, the Galatine P has better options for dealing with it than the Fragor P does. Unfortunately Shattering Impact doesn't take the amount of impact damage you're dealing into acount, it just requires that you do some impact damage in the first place. So that ends up only really working well for fast swinging weapons. Likewise, corrosive procs are also something that favour faster weapons, especially since you have to deal with IPS damage getting weighted 4 to 1 over elemental when determining status proc effects. Bleeds are pretty much the one anti armour shortcut that slow weapons can use well, and with almost 95% of its' IPS as slash and a 20% status chance the Galatine P is fixed pretty well for running a bleed build. It is very combo multiplier dependant of course, yes, which is something that does hurt it a bit at sortie levels since enemies are still so squishy it can be difficult to get a good multiplier going quickly.

The charts don't use channeling multipliers no, but even with that accounted for the Galatine P still comes out on top.

The melee combo multipler count will boost the Fragor's slide attack damage yeah, but interestingly at higher multipliers it starts to slow down in dps gains quite a bit compared to other weapons. At 35% crit chance, it seems to place too much of its' dps emphasis on crit so that it starts to run into severe diminishing returns faster than weapons balanced around lower crit chances.

Anyway, I don't mean to come off as combative or negative or anything, I don't really like or dislike the Galatine P at this point, it's just that they stat-ed it out to be that strong. I'd expect though that when we see the syndicate melees either the Synoid scan hammer or the Sancti Magistar will produce a hammer that can go toe to toe with the Galatine (at least in raw damage, the bleed build will still leave it with the edge against very high armour). 

[Aglethe]

20 hours ago, (PS4)cbrstar said:

Better question... How the heck can people move and even run with the Galatine? It's so cartoonishly long it sticks past the ground.

(I know it's based on some medieval long sword, but common they weren't slung over their backs like that!)

It's a bit goofy yeah. The sort of "true" two handed or great swords that it's loosely based off of were more renaissance era weapons than medieval, and from what I've seen, most of the historical depictions of them being caried seem to show them being leaned on the shoulder with the flat of the blade. But I'm just a nerd and not a historical expert, so take that with a pinch or two of salt. ;)

[ThePredicament]

With how the game is working now (less endless, more regular missions, some sortie level stuff), the differences are still way past the actual effective ceiling. It's like arguing that a machinegun is better than a pistol to kill roaches. There's also supposed to be an eventual armor rework so even that will lower the ceiling further.

Things with quantifiable numbers such as damage stats and all that are already taking a backseat to utility flavor, such as CL knives, Combeam, health leech (maxed purity furis WRECKS most everything in the game already) and syndicate explosions.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

I dont think DE intend for every one of their weapons to be equal. and they eventually want a gradual progression up to MR 30 weapons.

ages back they were contemplating whether they should have the warframes "tiered" like the weapons are (so that some are objectively better than others)

I realise that the power creep can be irritating when you've put 6+ forma into a lovely new weapon because its the current best. But look at the alternatives.
Either they balance all of the weapons so that they are all somewhat equal, but then there is no reason to move up from the starter weapons.
Or they immediately release weapons that they intend to still be top tier when the game is "finished" and everyone gets those weapons and never use anything else because everything else is "mastery fodder"

so yeah, in a game that is still in development, power creep is a necessary evil

[RealPandemonium]

4 hours ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

I dont think DE intend for every one of their weapons to be equal. and they eventually want a gradual progression up to MR 30 weapons.

ages back they were contemplating whether they should have the warframes "tiered" like the weapons are (so that some are objectively better than others)

I realise that the power creep can be irritating when you've put 6+ forma into a lovely new weapon because its the current best. But look at the alternatives.
Either they balance all of the weapons so that they are all somewhat equal, but then there is no reason to move up from the starter weapons.
Or they immediately release weapons that they intend to still be top tier when the game is "finished" and everyone gets those weapons and never use anything else because everything else is "mastery fodder"

so yeah, in a game that is still in development, power creep is a necessary evil

This game is all about flavor and customization.  Sidegrades > false upgrades that shoehorn you into fotm choices.  The game isn't that hard and all content that pushes the limits of our [already powercreeped] equipment removes gameplay instead of adding it; that content has been an abject failure since Trials were released.

[DrProfSirCarmen]

Does it even really matter?

Scindo Prime is still a fantastic weapon and has served fine for higher level content faithfully since it came out and still shall. Its really not as much of a big deal as you make it out to be, just use whichever weapon you like better.

[RistN]

On 09/11/2016 at 3:58 AM, (PS4)official_79 said:

From looking at the stats the galatine prime is 100% better than the scindo prime. There must be some hidden value that gives the scindo an advantage over Galatine. My only thought would be the execution mult. since the scindo was an executioner's weapon, but I cant tell that by looking at the in game stats. If not then I gotta admit the power creep with the new weapons coming out is ruining the game, now there is no reason to use Scindo P over Galatine P, or any reason to use Dakra P over Broken War or Dragon Nikana over Nikana Prime outside of preference.

Who cares?Im still gonna use all of the best melee weapons and besides we got another top of the line melee.

[rockscl]

On 10/9/2016 at 11:12 PM, ScorpioneITA said:

As if there's a single balanced game out there. Balance is a dream gamers dream of that will never be achieved. As balance is subjective. If you make something perfectly balanced it will also not be balanced due to humans having different skill/abilities/attributes etc that will give some edge with certain things/mechanics.

Theres a difference between perceived balance and outclassing, which is what happens here, the powercreep is blatant between two weapons that work the same(Tempo Royale) and this game`s progression method (mr gating) doesnt match the playable content of interest in a linear fashion like full power creeping games do (wow as example), so when you get a powerful scindo p, and then a better weapon in the same class is added the power creeping isnt a response to new "harder" hp bags settled in new playable content, it is just the same content but with a new weapon making the previous one obsolete

as a lore basic point axes should have higher crit chance than swords, and swords should be harder to use, but that doesnt happen here

Edited September 15, 2016 by rockscl

[Ozamchist]

Isn't the regular galantine better than the regular scindo?