Why is the Galatine prime completely better than the Scindo prime?

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

21 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

This game is all about flavor and customization.  Sidegrades > false upgrades that shoehorn you into fotm choices.  The game isn't that hard and all content that pushes the limits of our [already powercreeped] equipment removes gameplay instead of adding it; that content has been an abject failure since Trials were released.

everyone has their own feel on what the game is about, for you (judging by your opening comment) its all about that bling. For me, it is and always has been about feeling like a badass ninja; high speed carnage that challenges the modern notion of slower-paced cover-based shooters, something that DE themselves have stated as being their design goals (evidenced by the fact that the more agile you are the harder enemies find it to shoot you).

This next bit goes on for a while so i compressed it:

Spoiler

 

Now i still feel nostalgic for my old cronus, which i still have but never use because it is completely outclassed by almost everything else that i have. And yes this is sad, but it is necessary. I've stated a few times on these forums that back in the days of "starchart 1.0" I initially never upgraded from my mk1 gear except for the cronus and so with my trusty mk1 braton i defeated Vor, The Jackal, J3-Golem (no longer present), Vay Hek, Tyl Regor, Hyena and Nef Anyo... with my starting weapons and no serration/split chamber, just elemental mods and persistence. It wasn't until Sargus Ruk that i hit a wall. You see, back then the grineer had shields, and Sargus Ruk was just super beefy with shields that fully recharged whilst i was reloading. It was then that i upgraded to the Braton and woah, what a difference! Now, if every weapon was a sidegrade i wouldn't have been as impressed and would have probably stopped playing because my only option would have been grinding for serration or split chamber.

Another issue arises with balancing weapons to make them all somewhat equal: where do you set the bar? Do you balance all of the weapons for early game and force players to RNG grind (or pay other players in platinum) for the "essential" mods in order to progress, lowering the meta-game potential of all weapons? Do you balance all the weapons for higher level content, removing challenge for new players by allowing them to steamroll early content whilst also not nerfing their meta-game viability?

People saying "just fix the enemy scaling" really pisses me off. What? You think "fixing" enemy scaling is just a matter of changing a few numbers and bob's-your-uncle the enemy scaling is perfect? Literally everything is tied into that system. So (to match the weapon balancing above) you remove enemy levels and adjust enemy statistics so that your newly balanced arsenal is perfectly matched against the enemy. Only problem is that damage mods completely ruin that, anyone with a base damage, multishot or elemental mods will obliterate roomfuls of enemies.
So you remove base damage mods, pissing off all those who poured a ton of effort into ranking them up or paying platinum to acquire them.
So you change multishot to increase ammo consumption as DE originally intended, but anyone with an ammo efficient weapon like the latron is still unstoppable.
And what about primes, vandals, wraiths ect? arn't they SUPPOSED to be direct upgrades? How do they fit into all this?
What do you do about critical hits? With this system any weapon with decent critical hit stats becomes god. So you make weakpoints critical hits (like in other games like borderlands for instance) reign back the crit damage mods, and remove crit chance. What then? Status becomes king, the ability to stack DOT damage whilst still dealing regular damage, and all of a sudden people complain about toxin ogris's ruining everyone elses fun. So you remove status chance mods and scale back weapon damage based off status chance, so that the increased DOT is offset by lower base damage. But then what about status weapons that dont do DOT like radiation or corrosive? Do you change them from being utility to just more DOT and remove variety? What happens to utility powers? They're pointless now that enemies aren't overwhelmingly strong, any enemy that can be locked down could just as easily be killed by your now very generic just-like-all-the-other-guns soma.
I haven't even started talking about warframe shields, health, and armour yet!
But what do you do to prevent brand new players just beelining straight to the void and solo-trashing endless survivals like it aint no thang? You dont want to ruin your lovely balancing but you still want to make players feel out of their depth if they stray into the deep end. Maybe you reintroduce enemy levels and instead of scaling up health and damage, you simply make it so that enemies of a higher level take less and dish more damage to you... straight up ripping off the only good thing about destiny (in my opinion). This would also have the added effect of allowing a veteran to go back to level one content to help out noobs and still have a fun time without obliterating everything in sight. But then how do you handle the increasing the player's "level" to allow playing of later missions?
You cant use mastery rank, that ranks up too slowly. 
Do you, instead of removing them, use the base damage mods to boost this stat? That has the RNG problem, new players would be stuck at lower level content until they managed to acquire these mods.
Do you give this mod to players right from the get go? Then why even bother making it a mod? Everyone will equip it (you'd be silly not to) so there's no point having it un-equippable.
So you make it a stat, that maybe improves with endo (giving endo a use beyond mods)

Look the point is that although it is possible, making every weapon equal requires such a massive and comprehensive overhaul of nearly every aspect of the game, that between the risk of pissing off and turning away a very large portion of their player base and the sheer amount of time and resources required to make it happen, it just doesn't seem like a sound investment given the small payoff.

 

Another thing to note is that people paying for prime access and platinum ect is DE's bread and butter. Simply put, without the power creep enticing players to give their money to DE, warframe probably wouldn't exist.

[RistN]

So now with new syndicate melees whos gonna use galatine prime...Its always like this...

[WARLOCKE]

power creep is part and parcel of a progression based game. Why strive for that +5 sword when its the same as a +1? I really dont understand why people dont see this.

[Doothers]

On 9/10/2016 at 10:04 PM, Hayabusa97 said:

How else will people buy Prime access (besides for FashionFrame) or eagerly farm new prime parts to sell for over inflated prices. But in all honestly, the Galatine Prime needs to be toned down because it is unreasonably powerful and the MR13 rank requirement doesn't make up for the fact that it is far easier to get than the next highest rank melee, the War.

I agree it's too powerful. I nearly fell asleep using it one day and I'm not joking. Nothing should be this powerful to make content that easy

[Hayabusa97]

28 minutes ago, DeathHeart64 said:

I agree it's too powerful. I nearly fell asleep using it one day and I'm not joking. Nothing should be this powerful to make content that easy

Then again, I'm the type of person who would leave the match if someone is trivializing said match (which is thankfully few and far between) because I REALLY do not like being unable to do anything in said match because of a cheeser (because I'm here to have fun, not be bored)

Edited September 16, 2016 by Hayabusa97

[NightmareT12]

13 hours ago, TermiteFrame said:

Isn't the regular galantine better than the regular scindo?

Scindo has 15% crit chance, a bit of lower damage, and a slower attack speed. MR2.

Galatine has 20% Status Chance, higher damage, 1.0 base AS. MR3. I think it's bigger range too (which would make sense no? XD)

So I guess it depends on the build (Criticals beat in the long run, don't they?). But technically the Galatine should be the upgrade.

Galatine Prime vs Scindo: I feel both weapons are fine. If anyone wants to complain about the state of Prime weapons, my very personal suggestion is: Don't look at those at the far top heavens, look which ones are at the bottom of the pit.

And honestly, having Galatine Prime is no issue. Sooner or later there needs to be something better, and something better means more power. Something better doesn't always necessarily mean something obligatory, I think the Scindo Prime holds its position more than fine enough.

[Ozamchist]

8 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

Scindo has 15% crit chance, a bit of lower damage, and a slower attack speed. MR2.

Galatine has 20% Status Chance, higher damage, 1.0 base AS. MR3. I think it's bigger range too (which would make sense no? XD)

So I guess it depends on the build (Criticals beat in the long run, don't they?). But technically the Galatine should be the upgrade.

Galatine Prime vs Scindo: I feel both weapons are fine. If anyone wants to complain about the state of Prime weapons, my very personal suggestion is: Don't look at those at the far top heavens, look which ones are at the bottom of the pit.

And honestly, having Galatine Prime is no issue. Sooner or later there needs to be something better, and something better means more power. Something better doesn't always necessarily mean something obligatory, I think the Scindo Prime holds its position more than fine enough.

The galantine prime got a buff to its damage and critical chance from its non primed counterpart (and bonus polarities) the scindo prime got a buff to its base damage, attack speed, status chance, crit chance, crit multiplier, and additional polarities.

The galantine was going to recieve an upgrade in its prime form that was inevitable. And if you look at it the buffs to the galantine are smaller but more concentrated than the buffs to the scindo.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

Going through this topic I have come to the conlusion the problem is not the stats on Galatine Prime to Scindo Prime, as above posted pointed out, their stat gains are still both large. Scindo is spread out, Galatine is condensed, but the other issue is this; one poster keeps mentioning Broken Bull, how the Fragor Prime, with its massive critical chance and base damage, will never keep up with Broken Bull. I checked all melee stances between Hammers and Heavy Blades, even looked through other stances on weapon types that can potentially keep up with the two heavy weapon classes; no other weapon stance in the entire game has five instances of double hits for 400% damage bonus. Not even close. The problem isn't Heavy Weapons as the Prime Variants, more or less, keep in line with their weaker counter parts stats, the problem is this stance alone. It needs a reduction in bonus damage.

[Racter]

15 hours ago, (PS4)FunyFlyBoy said:

Going through this topic I have come to the conlusion the problem is not the stats on Galatine Prime to Scindo Prime, as above posted pointed out, their stat gains are still both large. Scindo is spread out, Galatine is condensed, but the other issue is this; one poster keeps mentioning Broken Bull, how the Fragor Prime, with its massive critical chance and base damage, will never keep up with Broken Bull. I checked all melee stances between Hammers and Heavy Blades, even looked through other stances on weapon types that can potentially keep up with the two heavy weapon classes; no other weapon stance in the entire game has five instances of double hits for 400% damage bonus. Not even close. The problem isn't Heavy Weapons as the Prime Variants, more or less, keep in line with their weaker counter parts stats, the problem is this stance alone. It needs a reduction in bonus damage.

Stance is 100% irrelevant my friend. Either can comfortably kill past level 200 with Tempo Royale, which obviously does not have the Broken Bull combo.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Racter0325

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

7 hours ago, Racter0325 said:

Stance is 100% irrelevant my friend. Either can comfortably kill past level 200 with Tempo Royale, which obviously does not have the Broken Bull combo.

Stance was brought up multiple times, my friend. Other weapons can comfortably kill past Lv200 as well, without Broken Bull. Should we start saying those are OP too?

[RealPandemonium]

3 hours ago, (PS4)FunyFlyBoy said:

Stance was brought up multiple times, my friend. Other weapons can comfortably kill past Lv200 as well, without Broken Bull. Should we start saying those are OP too?

Uh, yeah, those weapons sound like crazy outliers to me, if they can kill comfortably at level 200 (or are just abusing buggy shadow debt mods.

[Kefka]

On 9/10/2016 at 9:58 PM, (PS4)official_79 said:

From looking at the stats the galatine prime is 100% better than the scindo prime. There must be some hidden value that gives the scindo an advantage over Galatine. My only thought would be the execution mult. since the scindo was an executioner's weapon, but I cant tell that by looking at the in game stats. If not then I gotta admit the power creep with the new weapons coming out is ruining the game, now there is no reason to use Scindo P over Galatine P, or any reason to use Dakra P over Broken War or Dragon Nikana over Nikana Prime outside of preference.

it's better cuz it's mastery rank 13... scindo prime is like mastery rank 6... stop complaining and try to understand that not everyone is instantly going to be able to use these weapons right away so they SHOULD be stronger so that when they finally CAN use them they actually FEEL like they got something awesome and powerful for their hard work and not just a different version of the same old weapon they were already using. get out of your narrow minded bubble and look at the game as a whole before crying that one thing is stronger than another >_> ppl like you are why we can't have nice things.

[Racter]

8 hours ago, (PS4)FunyFlyBoy said:

Stance was brought up multiple times, my friend. Other weapons can comfortably kill past Lv200 as well, without Broken Bull. Should we start saying those are OP too?

The same people crying about the Galatine being OP should be, yes. There are over 20 melee that can all do this raw (as in, no buffers, 0-1 CP), of various weapon categories with various stances, Broken Bull has nothing to do with it. None of which actually matter, because the highest levels we're expected to kill are ~100 and I'm pretty sure you can do that with a Skana at this point.

[(PSN)official_79]

11 hours ago, HiroHideki said:

it's better cuz it's mastery rank 13... scindo prime is like mastery rank 6... stop complaining and try to understand that not everyone is instantly going to be able to use these weapons right away so they SHOULD be stronger so that when they finally CAN use them they actually FEEL like they got something awesome and powerful for their hard work and not just a different version of the same old weapon they were already using. get out of your narrow minded bubble and look at the game as a whole before crying that one thing is stronger than another >_> ppl like you are why we can't have nice things.

Though you call me narrow minded you fail to realize that MR as a basis of power is VERY inconsistent.

Broken War is a free mr3 weapon that outclasses Dakra Prime, a mr6 weapon that you either farmed or purchased.

Dragon Nikana, a MR8 weapon is outclassed by Nikana prime, a MR0 weapon. Though the amount of actual farming is debateable its clear the Dragon Nikana takes a whole lot more time to obtain.

The reason we cant have nice things is because power creep eventually leaves the nice things in the dust.

[Neon_Knight-]

Here is the reason why power creep bothers me.

Comparatively, I can't make as powerful builds as a lot of players here. I don't have mods like Blood Rush or Bladed Rounds. Primed Pressure Point, etc. Only just started with Baro and just a while back reached a point in both MR and overall power level where I could start farming for the weapons I wanted.

I saved my potatoes, because I knew there were better versions of the stuff I wanted. Tigris, Vectis, Spira, Bo, Rakta Cernos, etc. Lots of things.

I spent a massive amount of time just grinding credits, materials, and parts, to make the weapons I wanted. JUST to mess with them and compare, to see if I wanted them. Because I don't want to break the bank, or waste my extremely limited amount of potatoes and forma. As I result of that,I COULDN'T do the type of content that would make me stronger in the meantime, to make all that farming easier. I was stuck at a certain point for a long time, just analyzing weapons and frames I was curious about. And I was fine with that.

Because, I had this understanding that the system had a balance to it. If I chose to dedicate time, energy, resources, and actual money to focus on getting certain things,that would be fine. Because Sancti Tigris, Rakta Cernos, Dual Kamas Prime, Latron Prime....that's top tier stuff right? That's all stuff that's carefully crafted to be good at certain things, within this balanced system. Right? Once I have THAT stuff, then I will finally spend these potatoes I've been biding my time with. And that was fine. It was fun on the way.

Then I finished Second Dream and was given a weapon that beats all others in it's class, potatoed. The Broken War. Which I could use to blend through anything, destroying any sense of progress or skill attainment I might get my way. So I put it away. Later, by chance, I got a War blueprint.

Trade the best sword in the game, potatoed, for a bigger one that I think I could have more fun with?

Yes.

Now the War is objectively worse than another weapon. And I don't have my potatoed best sword and won't be getting it back without serious plat, or amazing RNG and 20 plat.I CANNOT just spend some time and undo it. The moment I maxed my War, Galatine Prime came out. ;_;

Now I'm hesitant to max anything. Because tomorrow, it will be obsolete, and I will have wasted materials i spent a huge amount of time or money on.

I pose you this question. If you are a new player and you know how all of it works....the farming, potatoes, forma, mods, primes, baro, etc. You know there are weapon tiers and prime versions. At when you reach what MR rank, do you choose to potato a weapon? Knowing, in possibly just a short time, it will be outclassed by something else you can access?

Most players won't even figure all that out for a long time. So they will, and do, waste plat on things like Dual Ether in the market. Or toss a catalyst on the original Orthos. And that thing will then trivialize all their content and their other weapons will be pointless, unless they buy more catalysts and steamroll all the content they can access before they start being able to access a lot of primes. At which point, they will need to spend or farm, wait for a Gift of The Lotus alert, or spend money/get plat, just to get the higher tiered gear.

And they'd have probably spent an amount of plat comparable to what I have, in half the time, potentially for worse weapons because they don't know what's powerful, and they'd still have less mods, weapons, and  frames. But they'd have a good start to kick themselves into the rest of the content.

 

My issue isn't so much that power creep exists in the game. I'm fine with there being AT LEAST 2 best weapons in a given.class. It's the leveling system. I waste huge amounts of time to farm items which will soon be, or already are, obsolete, to lock myself at that power level.

If the counter argument to power creep is that it doesn't matter for the content we're expected to play anyway, then I'd argue the game's balance and difficulty has bigger problems than powercreep. Why do anything at that point? If all the gear in the game can meme on all the content totally without difficulty? What role you play, what gear you choose in a mission....doesn't mean anything because we're just that powerful?

Where's the fun in that? Isn't it fun to come to a scenario with a special build you're good with? That IS good at doing certain things? Has depth to it?

I get Galatine Prime is awesome and all, but I'm going to get over the novelty of a big sword that kills things fast. All it really does for the game is make higher level missions play like you're still on Earth. . In my opinion, power creep is sad and daunting.

How about just.....improving the leveling system somehow, so that it doesn't lock you where you are? For example, make an item that turns your weapon, INTO a prime? I think that would add hugely to the variety, make the farming less of a pain, and DE would still get their money for the item. There'd be more to think about but, I think it would be a good start.

[Zachles]

The problem with balancing everything, is that you cannot fully expect everything to be balanced. The word balance means, in essence, that everything is equal, and that's just stupid. The simple fact of the matter is that there are going to be some weapons that are better than others. Not to say that all weapons shouldn't be useful in their own way, and this can be addressed by various weapon mechanics, variety and diversity (burst fire versus semi-automatic versus fully-automatic, critical-based versus status-based, elemental-based weapons, AoE, et cetera), and these can be used to bridge that gap between outright terrible and insanely overpowered, but again, I think it's unrealistic to expect things to be "balanced." Pick up a dictionary, people.

I'm on the fence about nerfing and balancing. It's a good idea to bring things more in line with how things should be realistically in game but it's not that easy. Trinity, for example, and she's my favorite example to address this. Before she was "nerfed" (and in my opinion, more like a fix because she's more reasonable now, minus the fact that her Blessing is now restricted to 50m unless you have the Vazarin focus), you could make your entire squad completely immune to all incoming damage. That was ridiculous. So what did they do? Remove the invulnerability and replaced it with damage reduction. It's more or less about finding that very very very fine line, and it is very difficult to find.

And I've seen a few people complaining about the potential for melee weapons possibly doing more damage than primary and secondary weapons. One, did you play the game at all before melee 2.0? Because before that, melee weapons were not very useful. The Galatine was pretty amazing with it's charge attack, but melee was pretty much only used for it's coptering abilities to get to your objective faster. Melee 2.0 was supposed to make melee just as viable of a play style as gun play.

 

Flame me all you want, but anyone demanding these insane and unreasonable nerfs to "OP" weapons in the game are detrimental to the games progress. Think outside the box a little. You'd be surprised some weapons have more potential than you might think.

[Zachles]

On 9/20/2016 at 1:10 AM, (PS4)official_79 said:

The reason we cant have nice things is because power creep eventually leaves the nice things in the dust.

Because Warframe is a developing game lol. You're going to have power creep. What do you want them to do? Release insanely powerful weapons now, and then release nothing but subpar weapons in the future?

[Neon_Knight-]

25 minutes ago, Zachles said:

The problem with balancing everything, is that you cannot fully expect everything to be balanced. The word balance means, in essence, that everything is equal, and that's just stupid. The simple fact of the matter is that there are going to be some weapons that are better than others. Not to say that all weapons shouldn't be useful in their own way, and this can be addressed by various weapon mechanics, variety and diversity (burst fire versus semi-automatic versus fully-automatic, critical-based versus status-based, elemental-based weapons, AoE, et cetera), and these can be used to bridge that gap between outright terrible and insanely overpowered, but again, I think it's unrealistic to expect things to be "balanced."

I think when people talk about balance, they don't literally mean they want every weapon to do the same damage at the same speed to every enemy and faction with the same range.

I think they want what you're describing. And people feel that with certain weapons existing, there's just no point  in picking others.

And I don't mean things like Soma Prime being a powerful rifle. There are reasons why someone might pick something besides the Soma.

Why pick anything besides Galatine Prime?

[Zachles]

1 minute ago, Druidx said:

I think when people talk about balance, they don't literally mean they want every weapon to do the same damage at the same speed to every enemy and faction with the same range.

I think they want what you're describing. And people feel that with certain weapons existing, there's just no point  in picking others.

And I don't mean things like Soma Prime being a powerful rifle. There are reasons why someone might pick something besides the Soma.

Why pick anything besides Galatine Prime?

Other melee weapon types need to be made more viable. Daggers, for example, are the absolute worst melee weapons. Greatswords and battle axes are slow, but deal an astronomical amount of damage (although you can make Galatine Prime so outrageously fast with mods and Warframe abilities it's ridiculous), and swords are kind of down the middle between damage and speed. Like I said, it's not easy to find that fine line to balance everything.

Also, it's best to not consider power creep as a problem. Power creep should be considered as upgrades to already existing weapons. People cannot expect to use a Braton all the way through the star chart, and they shouldn't expect that they should be able to. Sooner or later, it's going to become obsolete.

[Racter]

8 hours ago, Druidx said:

Here is the reason why power creep bothers me.

While this was a mostly well thought out post, I think you missed the point a bit. Any of those guns you wanted to potato, forma etc along the way would have worked fine for the entirety of the game as it is now. For melee, this is especially true. Your Broken War, or regular War, or the new Galatine, or the Scindo from 2 years ago, all of them do enough damage to go past the "end" of the game in it's current state.

Think of it like this. Your goal is to chop down a tree. You had an axe, but then a chainsaw becomes available. Power creep? Yeah, but the axe still works fine. Another example, you need to smash a can. Your hands can do it, you can stomp on it, you can use a rock, you can run it over with a steamroller. Sorties are that can right now, and just about every weapon in the game falls somewhere between hands and steamroller. It's not exactly balanced, but if the only goal is to crush this can, anything works.

[RealPandemonium]

7 hours ago, Zachles said:

Because Warframe is a developing game lol. You're going to have power creep. What do you want them to do? Release insanely powerful weapons now, and then release nothing but subpar weapons in the future?

Sidegrades are more interesting for veteran players than straight upgrades.  Never-ending upgrades just end up being a crutch for bad players which eventually become mandatory if DE powercreeps enemy levels again, which further throws the game's balance put of whack and leads to a an over-arching system of power abuse, CC/Invincibility spam, excessive weapon damage for 95% of content, and getting one-shotted if you don't (ab)use these things.

Aside from bling value, straight upgrades to already plenty powerful weapons (Galatine Prime is a good recent example) don't excite me at all since it doesn't really add any variety to the game besides looks; my Galatine was already killing fine, and now it has more theoretical power but that only translates to maybe making the game easier in the future; it does nothing for me now and I have pretty much no motivation to grind for it any time soon, let alone buy Prime Access for it. The game is already quite easy as it is, anyway.

Edited September 28, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[Danjal777]

7 hours ago, Zachles said:

Other melee weapon types need to be made more viable. Daggers, for example, are the absolute worst melee weapons. Greatswords and battle axes are slow, but deal an astronomical amount of damage (although you can make Galatine Prime so outrageously fast with mods and Warframe abilities it's ridiculous), and swords are kind of down the middle between damage and speed. Like I said, it's not easy to find that fine line to balance everything.

Also, it's best to not consider power creep as a problem. Power creep should be considered as upgrades to already existing weapons. People cannot expect to use a Braton all the way through the star chart, and they shouldn't expect that they should be able to. Sooner or later, it's going to become obsolete.

I gotta disagree with you on this, power creep is bad for games, sure it makes you feel more epic, but that doesn't translate into fun.  Challenge and appropriate rewards without sacrificing the player feeling powerful is what (I feel) makes a game fun.  Why shouldn't you be able to take a braton to endgame?  What if you balanced it's stats with utility?  What if the MK-1 Braton had an underslung flash grenade launcher?   What if the regular braton had an underslung grenade launcher that had a 70% blast proc chance.  You might see that used more than you think.

[Zachles]

6 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Sidegrades are more interesting for veteran players than straight upgrades.  Never-ending upgrades just end up being a crutch for bad players which eventually become mandatory if DE powercreeps enemy levels again, which further throws the game's balance put of whack and leads to a an over-arching system of power abuse, CC/Invincibility spam, excessive weapon damage for 95% of content, and getting one-shotted if you don't (ab)use these things.

Aside from bling value, straight upgrades to already plenty powerful weapons (Galatine Prime is a good recent example) don't excite me at all since it doesn't really add any variety to the game besides looks; my Galatine was already killing fine, and now it has more theoretical power but that only translates to maybe making the game easier in the future; it does nothing for me now and I have pretty much no motivation to grind for it any time soon, let alone buy Prime Access for it.

Sidegrades being what exactly? New mods or weapon mechanics? The Focus system? Please elaborate.

I've been playing Warframe since May of 2013 (my profile reflects August, I'm assuming because I stupidly reset my account before the option to do so was gone forever), and as a veteran, I can safely say that I enjoy straight upgrades. I think that's more of an opinion, one that may be true for yourself, but indeed not for everyone.

I think the purpose of Prime/Vandal/Wraith weaponry was to provide direct upgrades to preexisting weapons. I personally don't see any harm in that. Most people tend to sell their former weapon in place of the upgrade (newer is always better, unless of course you're talking about cars) and I don't think that's a bad thing. The problem that needs to be addressed is the reason to have those better weapons, not the power creep itself. That argument steers things into end game content, and the problem with that is always going to be that it takes a lot longer to develop and release updates than it does to play them. I've said this before and I will say it again: Digital Extremes has been working on The War Within for better part of a year now, and I can guarantee that it will be played through start to finish in a matter of hours.

And on a final note, just because you do not see any reason to buy Prime Access for the latest OP gear doesn't mean that other people do not. Maybe Digital Extremes is exploiting that for monetary gain. Personally, I'd consider them to be foolish for not taking advantage - it works. Personally, I buy it because of the Prime Accessories (and I will literally waste all of my Platinum on cosmetics, I shamelessly did so with the Nekros Prime Access) and for the discounted Platinum. The time I save not having to farm the new equipment also makes it worthwhile for me.

[Zachles]

1 hour ago, Racter0325 said:

Think of it like this. Your goal is to chop down a tree. You had an axe, but then a chainsaw becomes available. Power creep? Yeah, but the axe still works fine. Another example, you need to smash a can. Your hands can do it, you can stomp on it, you can use a rock, you can run it over with a steamroller. Sorties are that can right now, and just about every weapon in the game falls somewhere between hands and steamroller. It's not exactly balanced, but if the only goal is to crush this can, anything works.

+1.

[Neon_Knight-]

11 minutes ago, Racter0325 said:

While this was a mostly well thought out post, I think you missed the point a bit. Any of those guns you wanted to potato, forma etc along the way would have worked fine for the entirety of the game as it is now. For melee, this is especially true. Your Broken War, or regular War, or the new Galatine, or the Scindo from 2 years ago, all of them do enough damage to go past the "end" of the game in it's current state.

Think of it like this. Your goal is to chop down a tree. You had an axe, but then a chainsaw becomes available. Power creep? Yeah, but the axe still works fine. Another example, you need to smash a can. Your hands can do it, you can stomp on it, you can use a rock, you can run it over with a steamroller. Sorties are that can right now, and just about every weapon in the game falls somewhere between hands and steamroller. It's not exactly balanced, but if the only goal is to crush this can, anything works.

I get that idea. It's like I saw someone say. Right now, you could probably do it all with a Skana. I still feel kinda swindled though.

How about in the future though? When they put stuff worthy our powerful new stuff in?

And this I mentioned in my post actually. If the game is THAT easy, that we can just...plow through it all without even looking, with any weapons, where even is the fun?

Now, fun is subjective. Browsing the forum, clearly, different people get different kinds of enjoyment out of this game. Or perceive the balance to function in a different way than others. For me, the missing element is danger. Without danger, well...there's no reason to make any kind of tactical choice. Which means, not unlike what you said, it doesn't matter what you go with, if you can just walk up to a huge mob of enemies and wipe them all out with a wave of your hand.

8 hours ago, Zachles said:

Also, it's best to not consider power creep as a problem. Power creep should be considered as upgrades to already existing weapons. People cannot expect to use a Braton all the way through the star chart, and they shouldn't expect that they should be able to. Sooner or later, it's going to become obsolete.

Right. That's just how leveling works in a game with RPG elements. Not every game can be Dark Souls and have it be possible to beat the whole game with just the starting gear. I get that. And it's fun to upgrade. Weapons being stronger than other existing weapons is fine. But, why have there just be one weapon in a given class that trumps all others? Or even multiple classes for that matter. Lots of cool weapons exist in the game. But...what if I like a weapon like that Braton? Is there something like the Braton that's as strong as that epicly powerful stuff? Or even, just something that's nearly like that "strongest" weapon, but just different somehow? Because without those choices to make, there's no building to be done. No unique or fun setups. No specialized builds or playstyles. At least, regarding that weapon's class.

I'm fine with there being TIERS. I don't like when a weapon holds a tier all its own.

RIP Harpak.