Perrin Sequence melee effect

[gkuoni]

Reading through the different passives that the weapons had, made me wonder who thought that gaining double credits from enemies was a good idea for a passive. It is comparable as if the heliocore passive only scanned enemies. There is no additional bonus other than a better version of the previous weapon, which makes it feel lackluster.

Here's my suggestion: Make it so that the double credit passive stays, but that the lecta will gain a damage or status effectiveness (duration and damage dealt of the status proc) buff the more credits you collect during a mission (If the damage gain only comes from the extra credit gain is also debatable). This way you will actually gain a useful buff during the mission like all the other weapons have. How much it scales with damage should be of course minor, but still enough so that when doing endless missions, you can notice the increased damage (and that also means you can do more late game stuff due to weapon scaling).

In short: Keep double credits passive. Deals extra damage during the mission the more credits you collected.

 

P.S. I haven't actually tried out the new lecta yet, but I believe that perrin sequence should at least also get an active component when you pick their weapon during the mission.

Edited September 15, 2016 by gkuoni

[gkuoni]

I just realised I was supposed to put this under weapons feedback. My bad. (it is past midnight when I wrote this). I am sorry, but could someone please transfer this over to the feedback section? Thank you!

[Iamnotanoob]

Forum Moderator will move it soon..

[StallordD]

Another part of the passive I find hilarious is that while it doubles credits, it doesn't seem to guarantee a drop. So it's a passive that is both situational, and lackluster.

[Oranji]

A lot of people actually suggested the double credits since it made sense and not just me.
Although I agree with loremaster StallordD that it should've guaranteed a drop to balance out the non-combat passive that it has.
Also, please don't kill me.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Oranji

[Krion112]

1 minute ago, Oranji said:

A lot of people actually suggested the double credits since it made sense and not just me.
Although I agree with loremaster StallordD that it should've guaranteed a drop.
Please don't kill me.

No disrespect to you, or any of the others (the many, I might add) that also suggested this, but this buff actually does not make sense, and is completely useless to the players that should be able to access the Secura Lecta in the first place.

I'm sitting on about 4 million credits, do you think double credits is going to be any sort of a desirable resource for me, or players like me? And I'd like to add the disclaimer that I'm a pretty casual player; I have acquired so many credits by just play Warframe every now and then, and not from grinding day in and day out.

As well, game mechanics wise, this effect does not support the role conventions of the Corpus or Perrin Sequence, as both factions are focused on the role of 'Defense'. How does double credits enact defense? If anything, this ability is highly niche in the territory of utility, but it's such a useless utility.

While double credits does match the theme of the Corpus and Perrin Sequence, it does not match their game mechanics. Another testament to the problem of trying to precede theme before game mechanics.

This is why I believe there were many suggestions available that were far better than this one; this one is a useless utility in the hands of the players that should have it, and it does not suit the Corpus or Perrin Sequence to have it. As I said, this is not intended to disrespect you or the rest that suggested it; the average player is not inclined to game-design, so I can't blame this idea getting popular, especially because it played upon the theme of the Syndicate involved. But it did not reflect the game-design, and it's usefulness is only going to reflect that.

[Tesseract7777]

While it is a cool thematic effect, I think the Perrin Sequence gets a little short changed here. 

 

The problem isn't that the credit effect isn't cool.... or even somewhat useful. The problem is that all the other syndicate melees get an effect (or even two for some of them, like the heliocor or dark dagger) and at least one of their effects are useful in actual gameplay -- in some way they give you an edge in combat. 

But the Perrin Sequence effect... it gives you no edge in combat at all. I think the Secura Lecta should keep the credit thing, but also get another small passive along with it that is actually somehow useful in battle. 

Or the Perrin Sequence remains by far the worst set of syndicate weapons. 

In fact I would go so far as to say that thematically and game play wise it really makes a lot of sense... especially when considered along with their syandana and how it works. The real issue here, is that they have no other effect that actually does anything for gameplay. The only way a pure loot passive for a syndicate melee could be useful (a passive that only affects loot) would be if it also added to drops of mods/resources or something. Just double credit drop on kill, with nothing else for gameplay, is just weak sauce. 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[Oranji]

1 hour ago, Krion112 said:

-snip-

Np. None taken. It is what it is and for me and the others that suggested it, it makes sense. I would however point out that it was not given a proper "combat" effect given that it only gives double the credits. It should've had additional features on top of it as pointed out by @Tesseract7777.

Also- as far as I know, most effects that were selected were single and it looks like DE just added some additional stuff in it.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Oranji

[Hayabusa97]

I can already see the credit farm meta.

Nekros
Chroma
Two Ivaras

All with credit boosters, all with Secura Lectas, and all the credits dropping from Desecrate, Prowl, and Effigy.

They will be the reason credits gain will be nerfed.

[Mrwitchdoctor]

I think an improvement would be that when channeling all enemies drop credits on death within an immediate small zone around the Tenno. Or (or adding onto the already exiting effect) when the Tenno picks up credits they get an effect that greatly improves the melee damage of the weapon for a span of time.

 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Mrwitchdoctor

[Rhekemi]

2 hours ago, Oranji said:

It should've had additional features on top of it as pointed out by @Tesseract7777.

Even in the DC suggestion thread, a great many of us suggested additional features. I'm not at all surprised credits made the cut (and knew it would). I am surprised that's all the syndicate weapon was given.

Mine included the extra credits drop, but some crazy mechanics that were either overpowered, over-complicated or both.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Cleesus]

It also has faster finisher animations. Im not saying its good, because both of its passives are bad, but its there.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

2 hours ago, theclinton said:

It also has faster finisher animations. Im not saying its good, because both of its passives are bad, but its there.

Faster finisher might not be a passive at all because doesn't attack speed also affect finisher animations? Lecta has 1.0 attack speed while the Secura version has 1.25 attack speed, so it's not a passive but part of the stat changes.

IMO, credit boost should've been added as a secondary passive in case the primary passive wasn't as good as the other weapons (because a credit farm in the long run doesn't add much to gameplay, but all other weapons add something to gameplay). The passive is what's keeping me away from this weapon. Gosh I want to like whips more (poor stances though) and this is a good status whip, but without a gameplay passive I just find hard to stay away from Atterax (gotta love the spinning blades). Tenno whip when.

Edited September 16, 2016 by God_is_a_Cat_Girl

[ShortCat]

5 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

While it is a cool thematic effect, I think the Perrin Sequence gets a little short changed here. 

Secura Lecta got the biggest stat buffs of all syndicate melee. It got short end with its passive, but a jackpot with stats.

[pavlo555]

It is already competible with atterax. And doing spin-to-win build, it is quite good IMO haven't tested yet.

From what I know about usual Lecta:

- Range is comparable to that of scoliac, for reference, Atterax range is lower.

- Guaranteed Status on vertical attacks.

Now add to that:

- Highest damage from whips

- Highest speed from whips

- Highest status exclusively for this whip

- Credits?

I don't really think we should buff it further. Credit passive makes sense in terms of greedy milk syndicate and stands as really good weapon overall. Same goes for rakta dark dagger (which if taken with Oberon or Loki IRD, keeps you up.)

[Mrwitchdoctor]

52 minutes ago, pavlo555 said:

It is already competible with atterax. And doing spin-to-win build, it is quite good IMO haven't tested yet.

From what I know about usual Lecta:

- Range is comparable to that of scoliac, for reference, Atterax range is lower.

- Guaranteed Status on vertical attacks.

Now add to that:

- Highest damage from whips

- Highest speed from whips

- Highest status exclusively for this whip

- Credits?

I don't really think we should buff it further. Credit passive makes sense in terms of greedy milk syndicate and stands as really good weapon overall. Same goes for rakta dark dagger (which if taken with Oberon or Loki IRD, keeps you up.)

Whips so far haven't really been a competitive category, stats wise it is a good upgrade, the effect however technically an upgrade, is not really competitive with the other syndicate melee weapons.

[Gr33hn]

10 hours ago, gkuoni said:

Here's my suggestion: Make it so that the double credit passive stays, but that the lecta will gain a damage or status effectiveness buff the more credits you collect during a mission

I like it.

[Zendadaist]

Scaling status chance with the number of times the credit doubling passive kicks in per mission. That I could really get behind.

[gkuoni]

7 hours ago, pavlo555 said:

It is already competible with atterax. And doing spin-to-win build, it is quite good IMO haven't tested yet.

From what I know about usual Lecta:

- Range is comparable to that of scoliac, for reference, Atterax range is lower.

- Guaranteed Status on vertical attacks.

Now add to that:

- Highest damage from whips

- Highest speed from whips

- Highest status exclusively for this whip

- Credits?

I don't really think we should buff it further. Credit passive makes sense in terms of greedy milk syndicate and stands as really good weapon overall. Same goes for rakta dark dagger (which if taken with Oberon or Loki IRD, keeps you up.)

The thing is though, it is a SYNDICATE weapon, and they need to have an effect that makes them feel unique. This might as well have been lecta vandal if they wanted a stat buff.

[TwevOWNED]

8 hours ago, pavlo555 said:

It is already competible with atterax. And doing spin-to-win build, it is quite good IMO haven't tested yet.

From what I know about usual Lecta:

- Range is comparable to that of scoliac, for reference, Atterax range is lower.

- Guaranteed Status on vertical attacks.

Now add to that:

- Highest damage from whips

- Highest speed from whips

- Highest status exclusively for this whip

- Credits?

I don't really think we should buff it further. Credit passive makes sense in terms of greedy milk syndicate and stands as really good weapon overall. Same goes for rakta dark dagger (which if taken with Oberon or Loki IRD, keeps you up.)

This is just disingenuous as hell. The Atterax is still far and above the best Whip entirely due to crit. 

Comparing the Atterax to the Secura Lecta

Damage: 45 to 75

Speed: 1.25 to .917

Crit Chance: 25 to 5

Crit Damage: 3 to 1.5

Status: 20 to 25

The Secura Lecta is hot garbage, both in stats and its passive (twice of nothing is still nothing). It's going to score significantly less DPS than the Atterax, and Status melee weapons as a rule are awful. 

[Insizer]

17 hours ago, gkuoni said:

Reading through the different passives that the weapons had, made me wonder who thought that gaining double credits from enemies was a good idea for a passive. It is comparable as if the heliocore passive only scanned enemies. There is no additional bonus other than a better version of the previous weapon, which makes it feel lackluster.

Here's my suggestion: Make it so that the double credit passive stays, but that the lecta will gain a damage or status effectiveness (duration and damage dealt of the status proc) buff the more credits you collect during a mission (If the damage gain only comes from the extra credit gain is also debatable). This way you will actually gain a useful buff during the mission like all the other weapons have. How much it scales with damage should be of course minor, but still enough so that when doing endless missions, you can notice the increased damage (and that also means you can do more late game stuff due to weapon scaling).

In short: Keep double credits passive. Deals extra damage during the mission the more credits you collected.

 

P.S. I haven't actually tried out the new lecta yet, but I believe that perrin sequence should at least also get an active component when you pick their weapon during the mission.

Ramping strength depending on credits gained would be interesting, but there would have to be a cap on it. If there isn't a cap then the strength (possibly) could grow to absurd levels on long duration/endless missions. the only way to counter this would be to lower the strength per credit ratio to ridiculously low levels which would, in turn, make the ramping strength buff useless for anything but the end of long duration/endless missions.

On another note I have a few ideas for other raw and un-vetted abilities that I'd like some input on:

• whips are about range right? How about tying additional range to earned cash? There would be a cap to this as well.
• Blocking would cause an energy shield to form. This shield could be powered by credits earned from the current mission.
• Affinity/kills earned by this weapon feed into a "bounty" system which the Perrin sequence have. At the end of the mission the affinity/kills earned by this weapon is converted into Perrin Sequence medallions/rep. 
  • By "converted" I mean that people still keep the affinity and the Perrin Sequence sends you medallions or rep based on the quantity of said affinity.
  • This could be very popular because it would make the Perrin Sequence a great syndicate to get relic packs and such from.
  • ...but there will be side effects mostly because: (rep -> relic packs -> prime parts -> plat). some of these side effects should be explained beforehand:
    • It would better equip some people, allowing them to get more prime parts and sell them.
    • It would lower the market price of non-retired prime parts, which could be good or bad depending on whether you are buying or selling.
    • It would also make the market price for any Perrin Sequence weapons, and any mods that you can get from the Perrin Sequence, drop like a rock.
    • so yeah... this would be a controversial idea
• The Secura Lecta would increase the user's resource/item radar and increase the chance of opening locked containers.

Again, these ideas that I listed was just me throwing crap on a wall and seeing what sticks. I'm not arguing for any of them.

[Cleesus]

12 hours ago, God_is_a_Cat_Girl said:

Faster finisher might not be a passive at all because doesn't attack speed also affect finisher animations? Lecta has 1.0 attack speed while the Secura version has 1.25 attack speed, so it's not a passive but part of the stat changes.

IMO, credit boost should've been added as a secondary passive in case the primary passive wasn't as good as the other weapons (because a credit farm in the long run doesn't add much to gameplay, but all other weapons add something to gameplay). The passive is what's keeping me away from this weapon. Gosh I want to like whips more (poor stances though) and this is a good status whip, but without a gameplay passive I just find hard to stay away from Atterax (gotta love the spinning blades). Tenno whip when.

Im telling you what its second passive is, each weapon has two passives

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

4 minutes ago, theclinton said:

Im telling you what its second passive is, each weapon has two passives

You are saying that the finisher animations are the passive, but those are tied to attack speed, which the weapon has an attack speed higher than normal, so it's most likely not a passive but a result of the stat change on the weapon. Basically for it to be a passive it has to be faster than any whip with the same attack speed, unless they changed the animations to be "faster" aren't the same animations.

 

Then, how is it any faster than any weapon with 1.25 speed? You are not really saying that.

Edited September 16, 2016 by God_is_a_Cat_Girl

[Cleesus]

Just now, God_is_a_Cat_Girl said:

You are saying that the finisher animations are the passive, but those are tied to attack speed, which the weapon has an attack speed higher than normal, so it's most likely not a passive but a result of the stat change on the weapon. Basically for it to be a passive it has to be faster than any whip with the same attack speed, unless they changed the animations to be "faster" aren't the same animations.

Im telling you straight from a dev that the second passive is faster finisher animations lol

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

1 minute ago, theclinton said:

Im telling you straight from a dev that the second passive is faster finisher animations lol

Well then, it's a pretty useless passive if you ask me, because even if it's faster, the weapon already has faster finisher animations than most weapons anyway. So, lol, how are they faster than any other weapon just as fast? Well, it doesn't matter because it's useless.

Edited September 16, 2016 by God_is_a_Cat_Girl