Dev Stream 80: Carrier Changes feedback thread [Megathread]

[Madway7]

2 hours ago, That1Cactus said:

"We want universal Vacuum for our sentinels pls"

*DE considers universal Vacuum for sentinels.

"WTF DE WE DON'T WANT THAT."

I never asked for this.

Personally, I want innate vaccuum on WARFRAMES. Maybe about 5 - 10m 

Also I'm pretty sure at best people would have asked for this on ALL  companions.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Madway7

[MagPrime]

Just now, timur_the_lame said:

The devs can console themselves when they wipe their tears on my money.  Additionally, it's not really devbashing when you are telling the truth.  Just because you can pubstomp with a crappy frame doesn't make her good-->bring mag with specific weapons to make use of her one good ability-->other players do not equip such weapons-->I top the damage and kill charts!  Shocking.  

You obviously missed the part where I posted that my weapons don't contribute to my stats.  And calling anyone a moron is bashing, not telling the truth.  (Unless they've actually been diagnosed as a moron by a medical professional.)

But hey, you're on a roll right now, why bother reading and understanding what you're reading?  Just keep chugging away towards that warning point.

2 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Did you read what I was replying to?

His point was that manually picking up every item wasn't that bad.  Not simply not using carrier.

I did read it, I even commented before the thread merge (so much dislike)

Still, you're engaging in hyperbole.  I've yet to meet someone that picks up everything.  From personal experience, it's not hard to gather enough resources/orbs without Carrier, they were partially correct about that.  

[Deshiel]

This pic sums this thread up.

[Dizzle22]

Splitting it into three separate mods is a terrible idea. Leave it as one mod for all sentinels. Or just make Vacuum at native skill on all warframes. 

[Madway7]

2 minutes ago, Deshiel said:

This pic sums this thread up.

It even managed to vaccuum up the other threads.

[timur_the_lame]

2 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

You obviously missed the part where I posted that my weapons don't contribute to my stats.  And calling anyone a moron is bashing, not telling the truth.  (Unless they've actually been diagnosed as a moron by a medical professional.)

But hey, you're on a roll right now, why bother reading and understanding what you're reading?  Just keep chugging away towards that warning point.

Developers intentionally implementing something which they know will enrage a very large portion of their playerbase, potentially costing them money.  That isn't stupid?  It must, at the very least, be counter to their purpose as a company.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

1 hour ago, ScorpioneITA said:

Kavats already compete. If you don't find a use for them more than vacuum that is your personal problem. Vacuum is only great for new players since they need pretty much everything. The further down the line you are in MR, the less use of vacuum the more use of x2 resources or damage. Which either kavat greatly improves.

I'm a MR 22.  I use carrier because carrier = plat.  Smeeta is great for finding individual resources and is great for new players, but the Smeeta generates no plat for said player to buy warframes slots.  Saying endgame players use Smeetas just to stack their neural sensors higher is laughable.  I also don't need the extra crits because a bit of extra damage =/= plat.

[Neear]

Damage 3.0 ^[29]

• Rework/removal of "mandatory mods"

They are so against mandatory damage mods but they want to add in more mandatory mods.

[Troll_Logic]

2 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

Still, you're engaging in hyperbole.  I've yet to meet someone that picks up everything.  From personal experience, it's not hard to gather enough resources/orbs without Carrier, they were partially correct about that.  

Apparently you haven't read the thread.

He said to get rid of vacuum.

Screw it.  I'm not typing it out.

I'm replying to the exact scenario he suggested.

If you don't want to read the thread of our messages, that's fine.  I don't blame you. But don't say I'm engaging in hyperbole when he was talking about that very thing.

[ScorpioneITA]

Just now, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

I'm a MR 22.  I use carrier because carrier = plat.  Smeeta is great for finding individual resources and is great for new players, but the Smeeta generates no plat for said player to buy warframes slots.  Saying endgame players use Smeetas just to stack their neural sensors higher is laughable.  I also don't need the extra crits because a bit of extra damage =/= plat.

Carrier = plat, that's a new one. I don't know how it works on PS4 so whatever.

There are much better ways to make plat than using a carrier and selling 1 mod at the time.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, timur_the_lame said:

Developers intentionally implementing something which they know will enrage a very large portion of their playerbase, potentially costing them money.  That isn't stupid?  It must, at the very least, be counter to their purpose as a company.

Just about every change DE makes potentially costs them money, just like every other company in the world.  

You call it stupid, others call it taking a chance.  

[Deshiel]

Prepare to be universaly sucked in to the general thread.

[timur_the_lame]

3 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

Just about every change DE makes potentially costs them money, just like every other company in the world.  

You call it stupid, others call it taking a chance.  

I don't call all developers stupid.  Most developers listen to their playerbase and attempt to reasonably implement logical suggestions and requests.  DE raises a middle finger, smashes it in our faces, and then tells us to thank them for butchering the implementation of an incredibly simple fix which should have been done literally years ago.  

Edit: I forgot to point out that there wouldn't have been this kind of response if they had simply given players an inherent vacuum effect.  "Oh no, you made the game more streamlined and convenient how terrible!"  Wasn't going to happen.  They could have simply had carrier increase loot drop chance or maximum ammo, whatever--they could have done many things.  All I'm saying is that the thing they chose to do was very stupid and intentionally making a solution more complex (and annoying) than it needed to be.

Edited September 17, 2016 by timur_the_lame

[NativeKiller]

2 minutes ago, Neear said:

Damage 3.0 ^[29]

• Rework/removal of "mandatory mods"

They are so against mandatory damage mods but they want to add in more mandatory mods.

 

+1

 

Yeah, some people might argue that Vacuum might not be "mandatory" but splitting a very very popular mod into three different mods seems something close to increasing the number of mandatory mods to me. :)

[NativeKiller]

3 minutes ago, Deshiel said:

Prepare to be universaly sucked in to the general thread.

Yeah, hopefully soon.

 

I mean, I would have deleted this post myself if I could have done so. :__:

[Vox_Preliator]

I like the proposed change.  Sue me.  It's a reasonable compromise, Carrier continues to have a niche while not nearly invalidating other companions, you have more control over your autoloot, and it encourages prioritization when modding.

One of the arguments against universal vacuum was wasted Health and Energy, using them as soon as you're one less than cap.  That's taken care of, if you're the sort that takes issue with that.

Honestly, I can't think of enough mods for most of my companions, most of them just ended up with the basics ones plus Animal Instinct.  I'd have no trouble at all fitting in all three mods, if I wanted.  And if you (in the general sense) can't, consider what you're willing to give up in exchange, which is kinda the basic premise of the modding system.

Frankly, I used Carrier for the resources, HP and Energy are huge and bright, Ammo is plentiful, foes mostly drop pocket change compared to mission rewards, but we've all had that time when a mod got stuck in a wall or you can't be arsed to go allllll the way over there to grab that ferrite.  Even if I only use the one mod, I'm barely losing anything, plus I'm gaining whatever companion's ability I choose, including Carrier's new ability.

Edit:  What the flaming Fahrvergnügen, why are y'all acting like they took your newborn brother, broke his limbs, and then threw him into a wolf pen while laughing and pointing?  All I can see is one big hissy fit.  Plenty of people are making thought-out, constructive posts that rightfully criticize this proposal, but 90% of the stuff here is whining, no two ways about it.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Vox_Preliator

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

2 minutes ago, ScorpioneITA said:

Carrier = plat, that's a new one. I don't know how it works on PS4 so whatever.

There are much better ways to make plat than using a carrier and selling 1 mod at the time.

So no one on PC sells maxed rank 10 mods?  Carrier  =  easier credits, mods(for converting to endo), and endo itself.  Personally I find selling a single for for a couple hundred plat quite profitable.

[(PSN)JaysInc_]

4 minutes ago, Neear said:

Damage 3.0 ^[29]

• Rework/removal of "mandatory mods"

They are so against mandatory damage mods but they want to add in more mandatory mods.

Vacuum was never mandatory, a person could go through his/her whole playthrough of Warframe and never be once coaxed into buying carrier just for that mod, and even if he/she did, it was only for convenience.

[MagPrime]

4 minutes ago, timur_the_lame said:

I don't call all developers stupid.  Most developers listen to their playerbase and attempt to reasonably implement logical suggestions and requests.  DE raises a middle finger, smashes it in our faces, and then tells us to thank them for butchering the implementation of an incredibly simple fix which should have been done literally years ago.  

Yeah, never said you called all dev's stupid.  (which, I assume you're meaning dev's of other games.)

DE does listen to their player base, there have been a handful of changes and additions that the community put forth in a reasonable and civil manner.  And yeah, a lot of people didn't like those changes and most likely left the game; taking their money with them.

But De has never flipped us the finger, smashed it into our faces and then demand a thank you.  Where did you get that idea?  I'd really like a link or screenshot of DE doing anything remotely like that - and I don't mean something you've chosen to interpret as such. 

Edited September 17, 2016 by Noamuth
Words are hard when I'm hungry.

[timur_the_lame]

2 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

Yeah, never said you called all dev's stupid.  (which, I assume you're meaning dev's of other games.)

DE does listen to their player base, there have been a handful of changes and additions that the community put forth in a reasonable and civil manner.  And yeah, a lot of peopel didn't like those changes and most likely left the game; taking their money with them.

But De has never flipped us the finger, smashed it into a faces and then demand a thank you.  Where did you get that idea?  I'd really like a link or screenshot of DE doing anyting remotely like that - and I don't mean something you've chosen to interpret as such. 

Not very good with figurative speech, I take it.  What DE does is listen to their players, consider their suggestions, and ignore them while implementing a much more awful version of what was requested.  Valkyr's nerf, this change, and almost anything else they get their hands on is an unpopular clusterfuck.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to mention that yes, I was referring to developers of other games.

Edited September 17, 2016 by timur_the_lame

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, timur_the_lame said:

Not very good with figurative speech, I take it.  What DE does is listen to their players, consider their suggestions, and ignore them while implementing a much more awful version of what was requested.  Valkyr's nerf, this change, and almost anything else they get their hands on is an unpopular clusterfuck.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to mention that yes, I was referring to developers of other games.

Starving, actually.

So, I'm out for a bit.

[ScorpioneITA]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

So no one on PC sells maxed rank 10 mods?  Carrier  =  easier credits, mods(for converting to endo), and endo itself.  Personally I find selling a single for for a couple hundred plat quite profitable.

You can sure. But why would I waste time getting endo/mods etc. When I can just finish mission?

If I go endo farm I go endo farm. I don't waste time in ''normal'' missions or alerts. Also endo and mods aren't dropping every 1second and are easy to find n pick up.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

Sigh, a merge.  I think the changes I suggested are lost somewhere on page 7 where they will never be read.  Cool.  Anyway.  The take way is DON'T NERF VACUUM.

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

When multi shot starts useing more ammo carrier will be king again. 

Not a fan of splitting vacuum into 3 types tho

[DrFail]

As somebody who uses carrier a lot but also swaps to Djinn or even no sentinel fairly often, I don't mind the idea of putting carriers effect into multiple mods, but I think they should cut out the Credit and Ammo mod and distribute it into the other two. Resources get credits added on, Health an Energy get ammo. This is because the Credits + Ammo one is by far the weakest combination of the three and will likely only see common use by those who have trouble distinguishing ammo types. Which isn't really a super fair trade-off in my opinion.

 

Unlike mods or resources, the majority of credits tend to come from end of mission rewards unless you're in the mission for a long time. In most cases in any mission you'd actively be farming credits in you will be doing so because there's a large credit mission completion award. Picking up credits isn't nearly as big of a priority as picking up mods. Similarly, Ammo drops arn't as in demand because not every ammo drop applies to you. You see a single blue ribbon inside into a pool of assorted ammo, slide through, and pick up your rifle bullets. Unlike resources, you don't want the entire stack that extends far past your pickup box. Rather, you just want one or two items inside it, and can pick up all you need by just doing a quick hit and run on the pile.

 

The most useful part of ammo pickup is the fact that ammo is most distinguished by color. I know of several colorblind people who run vacuum simply because they can't tell what ammo is what quickly. These are the people who would use the ammo pickup mod. And honestly, it doesn't seem right to cost them an extra slot for the penalty of not distinguishing certain colors well.

 

In addition, combining money and ammo into the other two mods creates a very obvious, very clear divide in the what the mods do differently. One mod would give you resources important to you during the mission (Health, Energy, Ammo) and the other would give you resources important after the mission (Mods, Resources, Credits). It's hard to find a cleaner and more obvious split than that.