Dev Stream 80: Carrier Changes feedback thread [Megathread]

[ScorpioneITA]

3 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

You never played a game where keybinds are actually crowded. Where you run out of keys under your left hand and go for alt + key combination and then run out of those too.

Wow you reminded me of literally the Times I wanted to kill my self in wow and some others games.

[Thrymm]

You guys are a ray of freaking sunshine, seriously.

Some things to consider:

Yes, an ammo mutation and capacity gain that has nothing to do with modding your weapon is a good thing.  Honestly now, I don't see why it takes any explanation.  More Dakka, good.  Boring?.....Eh, not really.  You get bullets, you get to do the shooting.  You shooting=more fun than your automated shoulder bobble shooting.  Kohm, Grakata, Boar Prime, and most auto secondaries are examples of weapons that can benefit from a free ammo mutation.  Spray and pray, baby.

Disagree?  No problem, because now a different sentinel can use vacuum for you and most of them shoot better than carrier!  See, options are a good thing!

Sentinel mods are lackluster.  I have four on the carrier I use in virtually every mission that, frankly, I wouldn't even notice if I removed.  Splitting his vacuum into three will be barely noticeable.  It will also allow anyone who doesn't want to waste ammo or health/energy pickups to exclude them from their build, allowing them to get full value every time.

Seems like it'll work just dandy as presented, best I can see.

 

[kaliazane]

1 minute ago, RenownedWheat42 said:

The wasted energy/ammo/health/life support are all reasons that are viable, like losing trace amounts of "endo" from the previous fusion core system by just fusing too much into a mod.

30 ammo wasted can go a long way on a weapon that eats ammo, even with a mutation. 24 wasted energy can make a huge difference if you're a heavy caster. One or two wasted life support packages can be the difference between making it to the end of the rotation or not at all. Wasting a health orb can be the difference between getting downed/wasting a revive AND affinity, or actually staying alive long enough to get away.

Like I said, I don't like it either. I HOPE it goes the way Volt's speed did and ends up reverting. But for now, this is what the vocal part of the community asked for. 

Unless these mods are "Pick everything except energy orbs" "Pick everything except ammo" entire idea of having them split because you dont want to waste 30 ammo is flawed.

If I want ammo i'll use ammo restores, same with energy. But hey if Ill use ammo restore then there will most likely be plenty of "wasted" pulses. So lets split ammo pizzas into 50 different sizes, so i can freely min max and use 7 ammo restoring pizza when i miss 7 ammo. Same with Health restores.

This is a mess is what this is.

Do not want.

[NeithanDiniem]

1 minute ago, ViS4GE said:

Unless these mods are "Pick everything except energy orbs" "Pick everything except ammo" entire idea of having them split because you dont want to waste 30 ammo is flawed.

If I want ammo i'll use ammo restores, same with energy. But hey if Ill use ammo restore then there will most likely be plenty of "wasted" pulses. So lets split ammo pizzas into 50 different sizes, so i can freely min max and use 7 ammo restoring pizza when i miss 7 ammo. Same with Health restores.

This is a mess is what this is.

Do not want.

Yes, because building hundreds of restores is such a good use of your resources, which are the number one thing people use carrier to pick up.

[Azrael]

1 minute ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Yes, because building hundreds of restores is such a good use of your resources, which are the number one thing people use carrier to pick up.

Oh, wow. I love sarcasm. How about you?

_{(he was joking)}

_{^{(you can tell because he said "do not want")}}

_{^{(i thought it was kinda obvious)}}

_^:)

[kaliazane]

1 minute ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Yes, because building hundreds of restores is such a good use of your resources, which are the number one thing people use carrier to pick up.

That was sarcasm if you didn't notice.

[Sziklamester]

Changes needed but I doubt this can be executed as well as peoples wish. After many years playing and watching Devstreams and experience the changes they made I am sure this could be easily another backstep. Wish I was wrong but some recent changes also pissed off many peoples.

[NeithanDiniem]

10 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

That was sarcasm if you didn't notice.

Yes, and what about my comment isn't also sarcastic? People can play along with and add to sarcastic comments.

[Azrael]

12 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

People can play along with and add to sarcastic comments.

They can?

Life = changed.  :)

[kaliazane]

12 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Yes, and what about my comment isn't also sarcastic? People can play along with and add to sarcastic comments.

Awesome comeback dude. You almost convinced me.

[Aimop95]

6 hours ago, TheTundraTerror said:

Most of the people who are "against the idea of universal vacuum" aren't against that. They're against DE's stupid "all or nothing" approach for the sake of "balance" (e.g. Vulklok, Viver). They're against DE taking one mod and turning it into 3 mods, further screwing over new players who are starting out as well as old players who now have to deal with yet another set of mandatory mods. I find it beyond stupid that DE talks about mandatory mods like Serration, Hornet Strike, and Pressue Point, only to go around and make what are going to be 3 more!

Mandatory damage mods are a completely different issue. These are mods that if not equipped will prevent you from advancing past level 10 enemies. You can go this whole starmap into sorties without having carrier or any sort of sentinel. Splitting vacuum into 3 parts will not prevent anyone from advancing through the starmap. 

[Azrael]

1 minute ago, Aimop95 said:

Mandatory damage mods are a completely different issue. These are mods that if not equipped will prevent you from advancing past level 10 enemies. You can go this whole starmap into sorties without having carrier or any sort of sentinel. Splitting vacuum into 3 parts will not prevent anyone from advancing through the starmap. 

No, but it does impact new player's ability to obtain the numerous resources they need.

[DoomFruit]

If other sentinels sucked up loot, I'd probably main Wyrm (prime) where I take carrier now, and love my (prisma) Shade even more when I don't. This is a change which I'm quite looking forward to.

EDIT: just read the overview, and they're going to make vacuum take 3 slots instead of 1. That's a MASSIVE nerf, something which I do not want to see.

Edited September 17, 2016 by DoomFruit

[Tizodd]

You need to add an option to the poll for warframes themselves to have innate area looting.

No reason for it to be tied to a sentinel/kubrow/kavat.

[DoomFruit]

Make Vacuum equippable on every sentinel? Yes please.

Make players need to equip THREE MODS in order to regain the functionality of the old one? Hell no. That's a massive nerf and if the price of making vacuum universal is this high, I'd much rather just keep things as they are now.

[Mak_Gohae]

53 minutes ago, TheTundraTerror said:

Who's the one who set the default pickup range to basically 0m around you?

DE. Because there is no hard rules on how a game must deal with loot. This game existed without carrier.

Don't even try and pass the blame onto me.

If you are going around telling new players this, yes, this is on you.

Quote

DE makes a game that's basically a third-person looter and than says you can only pick up things under your feet.

Isnt the pickup range 1 meter? Warframe hasnt had actual walk over loot pickup in a long time.

Quote

The issue here, as it often is, is DE not having half a ****ing clue about what kind of game they want to make.

They know the game the want. Certain players are the ones that think they know better about the game.

Quote

They make all these changes to Parkour which let us jump and flip around, and than punish us for not planting out feet on the ground and not using the system they put in place. I haven't seen something so self defeating since Xenophobia Anonymous meetings.

i partly agree here, they have been moving the game in a fast direction which has caused several problems for the game since it was not originally built for this. Like spawn trouble, void traces, etc, etc.

But you can pickup stuff while you bullet twirl over stuff because you dont have to actually walk over the drop.

48 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

You said "new players don't start with carrier" and I said "who cares? They get one soon enough, while their still new."

You are saying that "the new player excuse" doesn't work, because new players don't start with carrier, but of course we should consider new players. New players who need resources will want vacuum, because that makes sense.

 

 

Yes, the new player excuse because you are not handed carrier at the start. You are not told by the game, "You must use this." People get to know this game without carrier for a while.

 

Quote

We didn't create the issue, we advised new players how to deal with the issue. The issue is the terrible pickup range combined with loot bizarrely spraying all over the place instead of being concentrated in a few places. Telling new players to get carrier is good advice, because without it they miss out on many things they need.

there is no issue, this thing is not required. It's a nice bonus, no question, but so it several of the other sentinels. Having an AOE knockdown from wyrm will surely come in handy for new players.

[Xgomme]

Vacuum should be for every companions. And Carrier should be the sentinel for you if you care about those lost energy/ammos. Cause Imo Carrier should work as an energy/health/ammo dispenser. Remember when Carrier bugged out with some loot floating under him ? Should be like this

 

+ I won't suscribe to this survey poll thingy just to see the results, change it OP, plz

[letir]

Splitting one mandatory mod into three mandatory mods? And still limiting it to Sentinels?

 

It sounds like a joke. Or like a "cleverly disgused" nerf to Carrier.

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

there is no issue, this thing is not required.

Could you clear something up for me? Because we are getting into potential flame-war territory, and I'm not even sure what were arguing about.

What, exactly, is your opposition to universal vacuum? Are you, in fact, opposed?

I kinda feel like it would be easier to discuss this than to nitpick over who said what and whether something is my fault or not.

[Azrael]

4 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

+ I won't suscribe to this survey poll thingy just to see the results, change it OP, plz

This. I can't see the results. Definitely not subscribing.

[Mak_Gohae]

1 hour ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Yes, because building hundreds of restores is such a good use of your resources, which are the number one thing people use carrier to pick up.

they all use extremely common resources. It's not like they are asking for neurodes.

[RistN]

2 hours ago, ScorpioneITA said:

In poor words. You will now have 3 vacuum mods to use on all sentinels

Well this rework would be good then.I started topic long time ago here on forum in which I suggested that Vacuum should be a mod for all sentinels.

Not Kavats,not kubrows or other sentinels can mesure up to benefits you recive from Carrier so this is the best way to make others usefull once again.If this happens Carrier wil be reworked and given some other job to do.

[TheTundraTerror]

19 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

DE. Because there is no hard rules on how a game must deal with loot. This game existed without carrier.

The game also existed without bullet jumping but I think most people would agree that going back to coptering and limited stamina would be a bad idea.

As for "hard rules on dealing with loot", I think the general consensus is "make it as painless and simple as possible because collecting loot is not a gameplay mechanic that people enjoy (outside of some genres)".

Edited September 17, 2016 by TheTundraTerror

[xaanos]

Wait, mountable on all sentinels? FFS, not all companions? As in, not on Kavats and Kubrows?

Just make it a passive for all warframes already! What's wrong with you!? Why split it up? It's the opposite of what people are asking for? Can you at the very least mount all three?

[Zeiss17]

Make vacuum universal? Cool. 

Split it into 3 mods? No thanks