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Dev Stream 80: Carrier Changes feedback thread [Megathread]


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With universal vacuum becoming a thing I see a lot of people upset about Kubrows & Kavats  possibly not getting this.

 And they shouldn't simple fact they're not sentinels… 

 But there's a very simple solution for this universal "Retrieve" for you for all companions.

Bring it on par with  vacuum and then make it equipable for all pets simple

Just my opinion but hey  maybe the pets should have a vacuum mod so they can suck up ammo and mods like hairballs and spit them back out (sarcasm)

Edited by (XB1)DreamyRelic80
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11 minutes ago, WEREsandrock said:

Why is everyone so frikkin upset?
Vacuum was totally op anyway. Carrier was basically the meta, and now it's getting a slight nerf - making you consider to also use the other sentinels .
I for one welcome the change. It will be interesting to choose a different sentinel.
It's just some balancing. Hakuna your Tatas.

Probably (reading all the feedback a while back) because players wanted Vacuum as a passive ability for all companions.

Personally I think it's a good idea, because it won't punish players in a fast pace game for not carefully raoming around the map to try and gather every single resource, mod, endo, credit etc..

Splitting 1 utility mod into 3 in my personal opinion is not beneficial. To adress the needs of people that actually want some control over what Vacuum is obtaining.
Split into 2 mods (instead of 3) could be somewhat acceptable: 
a) 1 mod for ammo, life orbs and energy orbs
b) 1 mod for credits, mods, endo (etc)

EDIT : I always thought, that giving player more options to choose from is better, than forcing one solution on them. With multiple choices people will be way less negative.

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5 minutes ago, tocorro said:

Splitting 1 utility mod into 3 in my personal opinion is not beneficial. To adress the needs of people that actually want some control over what Vacuum is obtaining.
Split into 2 mods (instead of 3) could be somewhat acceptable: 

Or, I don't know, just make it a god damn toggle like people have said at least 20 times!

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30 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

Overstocking would limit when the sentinel actually provides you with your ammo/health/energy pickups, with yes/no options for overstocking. No Overstocking would mean that you would only get each pickup if you had enough room to gain the max benefit of that pickup (Can't pickup a 25 energy orb until you are at least 25 below your max energy etc). Yes to Overstocking would act as it currently does, absorbing the pickup as soon as there is ANY room (can pick up an energy orb as long as you are at least 1 point below max). A few exceptions might need to be made for certain weapon's ammo pools.

This is what I want to see happen. It is the reason why some people don't want universal vacuum. I, on some build, do not want to absorb 25 or 50 energy worth of energy orb just because I'm missing 5 points of my energy. 

This does not have to be another mod slot. Just give us a "behavior" tap on a drop down menu(Equip, Upgrade, Appearance, Behavior.)

 

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1 minute ago, TheTundraTerror said:

Or, I don't know, just make it a god damn toggle like people have said at least 20 times!

I'm up for anything that would give choices to all the sides of the debate over vacuum. That way each person could choose what they want for Vacuum to be able to do.

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40 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

make everyone happy

Your title amuses me as you think this is possible.  Give it time, I promise someone will be vehemently opposed to your ideas and go to great lengths to tell you why.  

Anyway, some decent ideas here and I for one appreciate the effort at least.  There are plans, as mentioned on devstream 80 about splitting up vacuum so they probably already have plans for that one.  There are also supposed to be plans to make pets follow basic context commands, so we'll see.

44 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

Make all companion attack/ability precepts customisable

This will require a lot of additional function changes and a few rewrites of how mods and the upgrade system currently works.  Right now its just drag and drop.  You are proposing some serious interactions that just aren't currently possible.  I like the exilus slot idea though.

And hey while they are in there, how about a better stats/info extended panel that gives us ALLLL the information about our companions/frames/weapons rather than the generic stuff we currently have that doesn't even always hold relevant data for every item we are viewing/upgrading.  Or is actually hiding the data we are attempting to adjust with mods.

 

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2 hours ago, (XB1)freakytiki3 said:

Vacuum is fairly outclassed by Wyrm's Crowd Dispersion, Djinn's Fatal Attraction, Shade's Ghost, Helio's Detect Vulnerability, even by Diriga's Arch Coil and Electro Pulse.

Here's the thing: Vacuum offers something that literally no other frame offers. The ability to passively collect loot. I don't count Mag since that only applies to bullet jumping.

 

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Retrieve is so bad, I wouldn't even want it on my kubrow even if it was on an extra slot with 0 capacity cost.

I don't want my kubrow being busy carrying stuff around, carrier can vacuum everything in 1sec and then keep shooting, the kubrow can't seem to do both...

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The information given was super vague. The community has filled in the vagueness with speculation, which has been pessimistic for the most part. From what I can find on this topic, the community has asked for a "Universal Vacuum/More Pickup Radius" that is innate on the Warframes themselves. For a fast paced parkour shoot'um/stab'um game, wouldn't this change just fall under common sense? The fast paced "Ninja's Play Free" game experience is very much hindered by the <Find the Loot Simulator> sub-game, which has to be done for progression. 

If the change is 3 mods required to do what 1 does now it is a bad change, if only being able to equip one of these is also part of this change, it's a horrible change.

Roughly 90% of players using Sentinels are using Carrier/Carrier Prime /w Vacuum for a reason. It makes the game play feel more streamline and smooth, it gives some peace of mind knowing that you didn't miss out on resources/mods/endo/credits. Carrier Prime is also the most sturdy of the Sentinels 1280 HP, 375 Shields, and 315 armor, none of the other ones come close to this.

Large Pickup Radius on the Warframes should have been a thing since the game came out.

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26 minutes ago, (XB1)DreamyRelic80 said:

But there's a very simple solution for this universal "Retrieve" for you for all companions.

I think it would be just fine as is, sacrificing the ability to effortlessly gain loot in return for a revivable companion that does far more damage and in the case of kavats has a lot of nifty tricks to compensate.  Also for the reasons @Trichouette stated.  Vacuum gathers everything, whether they change this functionality remains to be seen but waiting for kubrow/kavat to track down ammo packs and mods and resources when they could be fighting? No thanks.

Although I wish they would just give frames a nice littl 1-2 meter vacuum of their own rather than pushing it off on sentinels.  Too many times I run toward a mod or energy orb and miss it just barely and have to backtrack.

Edited by Xekrin
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3 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

Retrieve is so bad, I wouldn't even want it on my kubrow even if it was on an extra slot with 0 capacity cost.

I don't want my kubrow being busy carrying stuff around, carrier can vacuum everything in 1sec and then keep shooting, the kubrow can't seem to do both...

I see your point but they  allegedly fixed it to were they passively picked up items that they run across didn't they? And actually picking up a item and bring it to you was just an Idle animation? If they didn't they need to do this.

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Whole thing with carrier changes is really dissapointing, not because of carriers new ability (which seems usefull or fast fire weapons and/or small ammo pool weapons) but of the way they treat vacuum mod. As a player I use mostly carrier due to how much more fun is that game with that one mod. As a joke I was collecting vacuums over past 2 years to fully rank primed mod with them but with inclusion of endo system that dream is dead by now. Going back to topic so far there are 2 sentinels i use - carrier and diriga. Diriga got hit with hammer hard last year but DE managed to bandaid it back to level in which it is okayish. Other sentinels are either useless to me due lack of vacuum (Djinn, Wyrm) or their abilities do not benefit me anymore (Helios scanning, Deathcube Laser, Shade's invisibility). As a player I would love to see vacuum as mod for all sentinels but in the same form as it is now working for carrier. Spliting that mod into 3 different ones is as convinient for players as diriga with vulklok was accurate after first hotfixes. It will still make some people happy (mostly wyrm users i presume) but otherwise it is terrible idea. I know deep inside that if 3 different vacuums will be introduced to game, you wont be allowed to equip all of them which would be HUGE quality of life loss. I am wholeheartedly against this change and I am afraid that one change would make me quit this game, because with limited amount of time I don't want to waste it on picking every little piece of c*** from ground.

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If vacuum has to remain a mod, and people want customisation, I just thought, how about we make precept mod ranks actually count for something for once and make each level add a drop type to collect, rather than range.

That is:

R0 - Credits/Resources

R1 - Mods/Endo

R2 - Miscellaneous

R3 - Ammo

R4 - Health

R5 - Energy

 

Note that each level is additive, not exclusive. At R5 you would basically have the current R5 Vacuum.

Near full customisation (even more than the proposed system anyway), 0 drawbacks compared to current. Win Win?

Edited by Demon.King
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2 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

I think it would be just fine as is, sacrificing the ability to effortlessly gain loot in return for a revivable companion that does far more damage and in the case of kavats has a lot of nifty tricks to compensate.  Also for the reasons @trichouette stated.  Vacuum gathers everything, whether they change this functionality remains to be seen but waiting for kubrow/kavat to change down ammo packs and mods and resources when they could be fighting? No thanks.

Although I wish they would just give frames a nice littl 1-2 meter vacuum of their own rather than pushing it off on sentinels.  Too many times I run toward a mod or energy orb and miss it just barely and have to backtrack.

And reactant! Dear god you have to hover over that for 2 seconds for it to register a pick up sometimes.

i think there'd be some way to make receive a passive thing I don't think it ever be a perfect substitute but ones a mechine the others an animal an the mechine should be able to do that job better? It's not like we can revive sentinels (I wish the mod doesn't work that's supposed to bring them back after they die)

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7 minutes ago, (XB1)DreamyRelic80 said:

I see your point but they  allegedly fixed it to were they passively picked up items that they run across didn't they? And actually picking up a item and bring it to you was just an Idle animation? If they didn't they need to do this.

I have no idea, I never use chesa because it's poop.

But when I see someone using one, it's only spending its time carrying stuff around.

Edited by Trichouette
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3 minutes ago, Demon.King said:

I just thought, how about we make precept mod ranks actually count for something for once and make each level add a drop type to collect, rather than range. That is:

R1 - Credits/Resources/Miscellaneous

R2 - Mods/Endo

R3 - Ammo

R4 - Health

R5 - Energy

 

Near full customisation (even more than the proposed system anyway), 0 drawbacks compared to current. Win Win?

 

That's even dumber!

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5 hours ago, Buzkyl said:

Splitting vacuum will not make me want to use Shade, Dethcube or Wyrm. Even with Vaccum those sentinels are easily outclassed by Kubrows and Kavats. Diriga is flying arc trap with an unreliable AoE stun. For it's utility, Helios does a great job filling your codex. Djiin after the buff is pretty good now for what it does.

Will i use them now with Vaccum split? Nope.

  • Diriga has an unreliable AoE  stun with Arc Coil. While being able to chain Stun 1 enemy is nice, it is...1 enemy
  • My codex is pretty much filled. Making Helios have little use to me now. If i want to power scan i'll whack them with the Heliocre. It's Simaris augment is neat though.
  • As said previously Dethcube is horrible has a DPS Sentinel and vapourize falls off fast, Wyrm's just outclassed here, Shade is beaten by Huras

 

So that leaves it between carrier and Dijiin. One is a flying ammo-mutation/ammo storage and the other is a CC sentinel with a 30 second cooldown on it's CC. Not even factoring in vacuum, there's little competition here unfortunately.

If you want to make people use other sentinels, please buff them appropriately. Because with current state of sentinels carrier is still going to be predominately used, with other sentinels only being used sparsely.

Your opinion.

I stopped using Carrier a long time ago. It was my first one because it was the easiest to build at that stage, and it's not needed to "play", and in fact it annoys me no end when it keeps scooping up a full Energy orb every tick simply because you have a toggle ability that chews 1 point a second.

Don't like Sentinels? Don't use them, that is why we have other options.

My Helios works fine, btw, after Reactor and Forma it one shots level 40+ Heavy Gunners for me. I fail to see why it should better then that.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Demon.King said:

I just thought, how about we make precept mod ranks actually count for something for once and make each level add a drop type to collect, rather than range. That is:

R1 - Credits/Resources/Miscellaneous

R2 - Mods/Endo

R3 - Ammo

R4 - Health

R5 - Energy

 

Near full customisation (even more than the proposed system anyway), 0 drawbacks compared to current. Win Win?

I would be even ok with vacuum in that shape having 10 ranks with range at rank 10 as current range on rank 5.

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7 minutes ago, xaanos said:

 

That's even dumber!

Why? It's one mod with full customisation? Isn't that what most people argue against vacuum? Note that each level is additive, not exclusive. At R5 you would basically have the current R5 Vacuum.

Edited by Demon.King
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