Dev Stream 80: Carrier Changes feedback thread [Megathread]

[IRVoidGuru]

27 minutes ago, t045ter said:

Vacuum is overpowered otherwise we would not have the problem we have now with people only using carrier, as the Devs want to nerf its ability it is safe to say they also think it is overpowered. I would love to have vacuum on all companions as it is now however that looks unlikely to happen.

I have 2500+ in game so resources are not a problem for me :)

i think you are confusing "over powered" with "over used"

i like games like Devil May Cry. full of action constantly fighting and all drops Suck Right up to you without an issue. if this is a common implement in other games such as this , then what makes it "over powered" here?

Edited September 20, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[blackheartstar_pc]

5 hours ago, StinkyPygmy said:

You're already running around like a mad man any way so chances are you walk over most useful picks ups regardless.

I'm thinking these "forced" Vacuum players may not be as mobile as the rest of us.

3 hours ago, Ditto132 said:

By your logic, then I can also claim that why are people so lazy that they like to use Ember WoF to kill instead of move their mouse/thumbstick to aim and shoot at the enemy in ~1-3 seconds.

Most WoF Embers you meet in public are speed running as they do not want to spend time/can't be bothered playing, so yes you could say that.

[(PSN)greensmaragd]

I was inspired

21 minutes ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

I'm thinking these "forced" Vacuum players may not be as mobile as the rest of us.

They mean it. But in reality you slows the carrier on its way very strong. In the period where other vacuuming the level (make it clean for next player) In the same time we make 3 other things that bring profit. They are not free

[Xzorn]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)greensmaragd said:

Sry but i cann do this all the time without Carrier 

I become mods, Remember When a mod are times this is absolutely not the end. The so far is not enough carriers also. He saved me in the ratio a perhaps 5% paths.

 

5%?  Ok.

  x 5% =  1,678 plat.

It's more like 10% for me but like I said the effect varies on what you do and how you play.

Considering the other companions outside Charm are the ones who don't attribute much at all to performance outside lvl 200+.....

I'll take the extra plat.

 

28 minutes ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

I'm thinking these "forced" Vacuum players may not be as mobile as the rest of us.

 

Mobility is a small variable in a much larger formula that Vacuum improves as a whole. Any competent gamer can move fast.

[(XBOX)RVN World News]

2 hours ago, aerosoul1337 said:

 We need 3 mods to do what Vacuum did.

This is just so wrong.

Increasing universal pickup range is actually more helpful.

I have seen too many people killed themselves and said "don't revive me I want my carrier back".

 

Lol @ the last part.

[(PSN)greensmaragd]

14 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

5%?  Ok.

  x 5% =  1,678 plat.

It's more like 10% for me but like I said the effect varies on what you do and how you play.

Considering the other companions outside Charm are the ones who don't attribute much at all to performance outside lvl 200+.....

I'll take the extra plat.

But that in these examples was about things. What I find in the same time. 5% less trash. Is not more 1,678 plat .. This is bullS#&$. You know that

Daily syndicate are limited. I get everything together. Relics are limited. I use to all. Mods? I sell mods for 1 platinum, nobody needs a hand full mods. in the time who i sell mods i can find better stuff. And enough. I have play Carrier its a lie. I have exakt enough Platin- I have as much platinum as before, and the shop is all the time empty ;) Everything is bought, what want i more? 

A Carrier , no more.. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by (PS4)greensmaragd

[Xzorn]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)greensmaragd said:

But that in these examples was about things. What I find in the same time. 5% less trash. Is not more 1,678 plat .. This is bullS#&$. You know that

Daily syndicate are limited. I get everything together. Relics are limited. I use to all. Mods? I sell mods for 1 platinum, nobody needs a hand full mods. in the time who i sell mods i can find better stuff. And enough. I have play Carrier its a lie. I have exakt enough Platin- I have as much platinum as before, and the shop is all the time empty ;) Everything is bought, what want i more? 

A Carrier , no more.. 

 

It all comes down to Time.

Doesn't matter how fast you are, like I said to the other guy.  A player with equal speed using Vacuum will get more loot and finish in the same time or get the same loot and finish in less time. You can't do both. Not even a robot could do it. It's impossible.

You don't sell the mods you turn them into Endo and sell Rank10 mods. Last week I sold 2 Maxed Primed Pressure Points I had saved for 450p each. Vacuum got me 10% of that because Vacuum either saved me time or got me more credits and mods I can even attribute Vacuum to the ducats for the original mod cost.

You don't have to maximize your intake, you can use the time saved to watch Netflix or something. I'm just making a point that those tiny pieces that don't seem like they matter add up in a noticeable way and it's the reason everyone should have Vacuum as a passive. The Devs are literally wasting your time otherwise.

[-_Highlander_-]

I only hope that there will be an Toggle on sentinels .. on / off  ... and an location lock so you dont have to drag the sentinal everywhere .. just an thought :)

 

[letir]

1 hour ago, t045ter said:

Vacuum is overpowered otherwise we would not have the problem we have now with people only using carrier, as the Devs want to nerf its ability it is safe to say they also think it is overpowered. I would love to have vacuum on all companions as it is now however that looks unlikely to happen.

I have 2500+ in game so resources are not a problem for me :)

Another one "I don't have this problem, so it's not a problem". Great.

Also, getting loot from distance is OP, because DE trying to rework it.

 

I guess Damage 1.0 was too OP to handle.

[Volinus7]

Let me ask something. 

If they gonna split it anyway what could you possibly do?

Do you think this is a vote? Democracy?

Even me and you guys don't agree with it what could we do to change it?

NONE. Nothing. 

 

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

34 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Let me ask something. 

If they gonna split it anyway what could you possibly do?

Do you think this is a vote? Democracy?

Even me and you guys don't agree with it what could we do to change it?

NONE. Nothing. 

 

That is the point of feedback. The vast majority of the community is very adamantly against this change, hopefully for once they don't go full steam ahead and re-work this idea rather than assuming they're right and dismissing every bit of feedback like they've done many, many times in the past which has in every single situation just like this one.

[Volinus7]

I think we should have in-game vote function for every major changes so we can put that number of player DE so proud of to use.

We did it once at Darvo's deal so why not?

[(PSN)greensmaragd]

13 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

I think we should have in-game vote function for every major changes so we can put that number of player DE so proud of to use.

We did it once at Darvo's deal so why not?

Because DE in many ways works with strategies.
For the lighter reach the prime parts. Riches are distributed less.
There are of course money strategies. The question would be much more if they work.

1 hour ago, letir said:

I have 2500+ in game so resources are not a problem for me :)

Another one "I don't have this problem, so it's not a problem". Great.

Also, getting loot from distance is OP, because DE trying to rework it.

The theme Carrier. It is not used by all, which is simply not true. Carrier use players generally a time. to raw materials are there enough. And it is nonsense that you would find because with so many more mods. The one can take that way. for perhaps 5%. The one does not find. high support other Guardians people never want to miss. Why distribute this function to others. That would be one part Carriers dead. On the other hand, it would destroy the meaning behind the individual skills.

And I see enough other Guardians

Edited September 20, 2016 by (PS4)greensmaragd

[Vohim]

i think vacuum should be universal , give it to kubrows and kavats as well 

 

better yet why not  make it built in  on warframes as a whole ? 

 

this mechanic in no way  breaks the game  it makes players collect their  already earned rewards effectively

i'd understand for DE to be so defensive of the mod if it also gave a 50% loot chance on enemies near the vacuum mod companion

 

my suggestion would be make Mod and loot vacuum be built in  on warframes 

 

and then make hp , energy and ammo  vacuum mods apart as those actually affect  gameplay

 

and as far as carrier being an ammo mutator goes i Love the idea

Edited September 20, 2016 by Retepzednem

[(XBOX)Gamehowitzer]

19 hours ago, Xekrin said:

Considering Djinn is supposed to be the "Tank" of sentinels, it should really be mentioned here.  It only has 200 base health and has the only precept that intentionally aggros enemies.  It should be the highest in health.  I don't know if Djinn could technically ever be primed or prisma'd (the only sent variants so far) but if they are waiting on that, they shouldn't.  

Djinn needs to have highest health or at least armor even over a Prime variant like Carrier, period.  The fact that it doesn't is quite sad.

oh i forgot Djinn. I dont have him in my inventory my bad i'll look it up and post.

[(XBOX)Gamehowitzer]

19 hours ago, Eredoc said:

Survivability is hardly the point to sentinels, You should be using a sentinel based on what Utility you want because Sentinels aren't attacked directly unless you use Djinn [that can be stopped by taking out the precept]  or you go down and chances are if it gets shot, it's dead.

Personally I prefer Wyrm [Crowd Knock Down] and Shade but I use Carrier because of laziness and I think most people are in the same boat, Prefer one but use Carrier.

That being said, a little bit of care for the others wouldn't hurt, Also Consider renaming the thread, it is a bit misleading.

If you go down nearby enemies will target sentinel if no other target is available.

also regardless whether they are targeted or not there is crossfire.they still can take damage regardless

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by (XB1)Gamehowitzer

[BadxHero]

My main problem with this isn't the vacuum change itself, to be honest, given that the changes do seem beneficial for other sentinels. However, it doesn't solve the problem of Carrier being superior to the other sentinels, as it is only a band-aid to a much bigger issue. Which is the fact that the other sentinels suck A**, despite having interesting precepts of their own. It's actually quite ridiculous that a lot of people have suggested such a thing,instead of asking for ACTUAL improvements to the sentinels themselves. I mean, why be vocal about something like this, if it's not going to SOLVE the problem? There's no point in asking for a QOL (Quality of Life) improvement if the improvement itself isn't going to offer anything other than a lazy patch job.

Note: To those saying vacuumis overpowered, you aren't seeing the problem. It's not that it's overpowered, it is simply that the other sentinels are too lackluster by comparison. Which is to say, the other sentinels don't offer anything better than vacuum. Even if they DID have it.

[(XBOX)Gamehowitzer]

18 hours ago, XIceBladeX said:

haha... why did you compare Prime/Prisma to default Sentinels??? I'm not sure if you did this to make your point sound stronger, or if you just weren't thinking...

Djinn, Carrier, Helios, Wyrm, and Deathcube are all 200|100|50 Health|Shields|Armor.

The only exceptions are Diriga and Shade, which have 350|50|50 Health|Shields|Armor.

ALL sentinels have 100 Power.

There is no value in comparing the Prisma/Prime Sentinels to the Sentinels currently lacking a Prime/Prisma variant based on the assumption that they will never receive one. That's just silly. 

The point was to compare the best variants of each sentinel. and since prime/ prisma have enhanced stats those were put in instead of the basic. also i never said they would never receive one. I'm simply using the current information that exists to make comparisons.

Edited September 20, 2016 by (XB1)Gamehowitzer

[(XBOX)Gamehowitzer]

15 hours ago, DSpite said:

Can you please explain to me at what stage "Sentinels get killed because they are too weak", because if you just say "after 2 hours in Defense missions", I'm going to go strangle a kangaroo.

They don't get targeted much - on purpose, DE has basically hardwired that in - and they only get killed usually when level 100+ Bombards land a damn rocket next to you.

If DE wanted to kill Sentinels, they could make the AI just alpha them off the field with multiple units. Every. Single. Time.

There no point making them "tougher", it would be just easier for them to pull even less aggro because "reasons".

Aoe attacks, when you go down, any toxic eximus, caustic eximus, etc. Just like warframes with no armor, once their sheilds are down they take health damage. If they have both low shields and health (which most sentinels have low shields). Like the one guy replied above sentinels with low health can get instantly killed from ticks from toxic damage. And of course sentinels can get hit by crossfire.

Edited September 20, 2016 by (XB1)Gamehowitzer

[(XBOX)Gamehowitzer]

forgot dethcube too oops

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by (XB1)Gamehowitzer

[(PSN)greensmaragd]

32 minutes ago, Retepzednem said:

my suggestion would be make Mod and loot vacuum be built in  on warframes 

Warframes Have it! You must not klick for any Items, you have a 1 Meter Magnet without Carrier. Carriers Tech is Carriers Tech. Don´t need any another way.

 

22 minutes ago, BadxHero said:

Note: To those saying vacuumis overpowered, you aren't seeing the problem. It's not that it's overpowered, it is simply that the other sentinels are too lackluster by comparison. Which is to say, the other sentinels don't offer anything better than vacuum. Even if they DID have it.

This is simply not a clean argument.
When one is still very small, as one takes a first Kobrow. Thereafter most Wyrm and later Shade as support. Later you realize the recources are very important and plays a slightly longer time Carrier, then starts scanning and Djin. For sniper missions to Balong and in the end a Kavat. So each player group has its time. And who has not done so? Loveless, who uses only carrier. From the moment of the game that makes little sense. First Time in Warframe is with Kubrow. That is the only logical sequence.

I only make sense in a Arcane Suck version. A Verry Rare with max only 5 meters Effeckt. Weaker as Carrier. That would be a compromise. But in general I do not find that in any  is something wrong with the Guardians. I think some here, simply never used wisely

Edited September 20, 2016 by (PS4)greensmaragd

[Vohim]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)greensmaragd said:

Warframes Have it! You must not klick for any Items, you have a 1 Meter Magnet without Carrier. Carriers Tech is Carriers Tech. Don´t need any another way.

 

This is simply not a clean argument.
When one is still very small, as one takes a first Kobrow. Thereafter most Wyrm and later Shade as support. Later you realize the recources are very important and plays a slightly longer time Carrier, then starts scanning and Djin. For sniper missions to Balong and in the end a Kavat. So each player group has its time. And who has not done so? Loveless, who uses only carrier. From the moment of the game that makes little sense. First Time in Warframe is with Kubrow. That is the only logical sequence.

I only make sense in a Arcane Suck version. A Verry Rare with max only 5 meters Effeckt. Weaker as Carrier. That would be a compromise. But in general I do not find that in any  is something wrong with the Guardians. I think some here, simply never used wisely

they are used wisely , its just there is no reason to use them over carrier because of the 12m vacuum, the same goes for pets  as the game stands  its all about  3  things kavat red crit buff or smeeta kavat's random bufff or carrier's vacuum  

 

i kinda agree with an arcane vacuum 

[(PSN)greensmaragd]

7 minutes ago, Retepzednem said:

i kinda agree with an arcane vacuum 

It is also about. not to devalue Carrier for its style. He's just the recources Guardian.

Thus would an attenuated version Arcana with meaning. give each Guardian now vacuum is also nonsense. Carrier must retain its meaning. As I enumerated. Each crew member has his period where it makes sense. Some longer the other shorter. One must not forget. The small players should experience the game in the same style. How did it once himself. I was two months only with Shade go. So I dared me to heavier missions. They were not meant for me. 

 

Incidentally, the same Djin. Only that he directly brought pulls the opponents. If you close combat it is an ideal substitute carrier. As you get with this type the drops at his feet.

Edited September 20, 2016 by (PS4)greensmaragd

[Insizer]

I'd be fine with making Vacuum a "weapon". I'd like it more than having to get rid of 2-3 mods in my build.

[Leonix13]

6 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

you idea of risk/ reward is a bit broken. its not risking anything other then my kill rate to go get the life support mini drops,but killing is how you Keep Up the mini life supports. its a bit Counter productive to have to stop engaging in the game mode to go get a drop type. im more then sure 70% of the server would agree ( id pull the carrier usage in T4 survival and mot if i could but maybe DE could accommodate. Once Again can we go back to the original subject at hand? its not a Question of "will i use vacuum" every one will , cuz playing Apartment Clean up Simulator to get drops is Boring nor engaging, there shouldn't be a "risk" in obtaining a Necessary Drop type, as it is not Rewarding to have it but Flat Out Necessary!

Its a game mechanic, you are suppose to stop to pick them up, just like you have to stop to pick up energy cells for excavators, void fissures, or the thingy for mobile defense, or how you have to stop to use the life support capsule, or even reload. Its apart of the game mode.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Leonix13