BulletsforTeeth Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lord_Azrael said: Carrier currently uses vacuum, and that takes one mod. After this change, using carrier with vacuum will take 3 mods. Players may choose whether to nerf vacuum or carrier. That exact same choice will be made for any other sentinal, except that they already have their own precepts to slot in. So putting vacuum (meaning a full vacuum) on shade will require removing 3 mods from it, or that player can nerf both vacuum and shade by using one or two. You might be tempted to call that okay, since currently vacuum isn't usable on shade at all. But since carrier will get the same treatment, it's easy to see that vacuum is definitely being nerfed. There will no longer be a sentinal that can slot vacuum without removing other mods. So how on earth is this not a nerf? It's a nerf in terms of slot useage, oh no. The world must be ending. It allows us to customise WHAT we vacuum. Yeah, it increases the slots one needs to use in order to have the old vacuum, but it allows us to make a choice, in more than just one way now. To the keyboard warriors; put down your sticks for chrissakes. In my opinion, this is a good change. It's not a straight nerf, as in turn for extra slots, it allows those of us who prefer to, to pick and choose what we vacuum, in turn increasing efficiency. Whether or not you agree is up to you. I just refuse to deal with hair splitting. Night y'all. Edited September 21, 2016 by BulletsforTeeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 1 hour ago, BulletsforTeeth said: It nerfs nothing, it provides choice, and tradeoffs. 22 minutes ago, BulletsforTeeth said: It's a nerf in terms of slot useage, oh no. The world must be ending. So glad you acknowledge that it's a nerf. Taking away 3 slots is kind of a big deal, and there is no reason at all to do it. It adds nothing in terms of gameplay that wouldn't be added by just making it one mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vohim Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Just now, Lord_Azrael said: So glad you acknowledge that it's a nerf. Taking away 3 slots is kind of a big deal, and there is no reason at all to do it. It adds nothing in terms of gameplay that wouldn't be added by just making it one mod. it is not that big a deal when you conside A mods are optional and B sentinels dont even need that many mods in the first place , unless you're That guy that equips sentinels with Self destruct and Spare part besides if all you want is loot then you only need 1 slot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamquest Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) I don't like the idea at all. it's an bad stupid idea and really annoying too. Why should I lose the ability and use three mods with less ability than the current vacum mod? Great so now i have to manually pickup just 2 things automatically and then have to run around like a fool and pick 4 manually, instead right now where everything is picked up automatically. Great, that sucks. That is just losing game with no winner. DE is very good in finding new ways of annoying players - this is a really annoying thing. Edited September 21, 2016 by dreamquest typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 34 minutes ago, Retepzednem said: it is not that big a deal when you conside A mods are optional Optional? So the game is designed so you can succeed without mods? 39 minutes ago, Retepzednem said: B sentinels dont even need that many mods in the first place , unless you're That guy that equips sentinels with Self destruct and Spare part 2 sentinal precepts, 3 survivability mods. Regen, Guardian, animal instinct, sanctuary, coolant leak. That's 10. No spare parts or self destruct. So, uh, which 3 should I remove? The obvious one is coolant leak, but I kind of like slowing down melee enemies. I definitely don't want to remove any more, either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulusdacor Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 pls no .... why would you split mods into 3? companions as it stands usally bring more of a utility role to the game (animal instinct, coolant leak, med ray). their combat power is already not on par with the weapons/warframe powers we use. so bringing in 3 more required mods solves nothing. most players would/want to use all 3 mods, as most players use carrier right now for his vakuum for all stuff. so you would basiclly cap the companions to 3 less slots. which means they are stuck more in this helper role. making them more "useless" and taking power away. it would do the conterpart in what companions should provide too. they should give the player a choice of compaions and make him unique in comparison to another companion. if i have 3 required mods, this means less slots to stick stuff in i actually want on the companion. and less space to make the companion unique from others. for an example the special power mod of sentinel are an extra mod. so if i stick my new 3 vakuum mods in, put on some surviavability mods and some utility (animal intstinct, coolant, med ray). at this point my sentinel is probably already capped out on mod slots (would be the same for kubrows/kavats). now comes the question, do i really need the special power of my "unique" companion or can i live without it and have a more reliable vakuum with him living longer and have my loved utility. this question will probably answered by many with the decision to dump the specific companion mods. i know i would for sure. so where would be the difference then between my sentinel, kubrow, kavat. they look different yes. but there mod setup would be basiclly the same. so i would choose which look i like the most and in 99% of the time stick with this companion since it does not matter if i change it, would end up using the same mods. so hope this shows the problem. and there are some really nice special mods for companions out there, that i would love to use, but it would end up being the same as it is now with carrier. it would not matter to me for the flow of the game and the impact they bring for my expirience ingame. so pls just make the vakuum universal. that is the least anyone could ask for. players not wanting to use it would be fine to. but not this 3 mods mess.... or you could use brozimes idea suggestion with the toggle items on/off since it would really make every one happy. so yeah, alot of other good/better options out there. as for a positive note, really happy your deciding to take this step, hope more changes are coming. hopefully for the better =) fight on tenno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon.King Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, BulletsforTeeth said: It's a nerf in terms of slot useage, oh no. The world must be ending. It allows us to customise WHAT we vacuum. Yeah, it increases the slots one needs to use in order to have the old vacuum, but it allows us to make a choice, in more than just one way now. To the keyboard warriors; put down your sticks for chrissakes. In my opinion, this is a good change. It's not a straight nerf, as in turn for extra slots, it allows those of us who prefer to, to pick and choose what we vacuum, in turn increasing efficiency. Whether or not you agree is up to you. I just refuse to deal with hair splitting. Night y'all. You are being short sighted. The point is there are better ways to implement this that provide even more customisation, a lot more, ranging from settings to customisable mods. Example: On 17/09/2016 at 0:08 PM, Demon.King said: If vacuum has to remain a mod, and people want customisation, I just thought, how about we make precept mod ranks actually count for something for once and make each level add a drop type to collect, rather than range. That is: R0 - Credits/Resources R1 - Mods/Endo R2 - Miscellaneous R3 - Ammo R4 - Health R5 - Energy Note that each level is additive, not exclusive. At R5 you would basically have the current R5 Vacuum. Near full customisation (even more than the proposed system anyway), 0 drawbacks compared to current. Win Win? Would you prefer 3 mod slots for crappy customisation, or 0/1 mod slots for full/near full customisation? Edited September 21, 2016 by Demon.King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)greensmaragd Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Why not Three Mods for all another Guardians. And Carrier can use his basic with one Mod. He is the Vakuum MASTER !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vohim Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, Lord_Azrael said: Optional? So the game is designed so you can succeed without mods? 2 sentinal precepts, 3 survivability mods. Regen, Guardian, animal instinct, sanctuary, coolant leak. That's 10. No spare parts or self destruct. So, uh, which 3 should I remove? The obvious one is coolant leak, but I kind of like slowing down melee enemies. I definitely don't want to remove any more, either.... animal instinct and coolant leak use thief wit instead and problem solved could argue that guardian is useless on some frames and on some missions and by optional I mostly meant the new vacuum mods , you dont need to equip all 3 Edited September 21, 2016 by Retepzednem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorsContraction Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 On 9/17/2016 at 6:08 AM, Demon.King said: If vacuum has to remain a mod, and people want customisation, I just thought, how about we make precept mod ranks actually count for something for once and make each level add a drop type to collect, rather than range. That is: R0 - Credits/Resources R1 - Mods/Endo R2 - Miscellaneous R3 - Ammo R4 - Health R5 - Energy Note that each level is additive, not exclusive. At R5 you would basically have the current R5 Vacuum. Near full customisation (even more than the proposed system anyway), 0 drawbacks compared to current. Win Win? I'll just quote this again as it seems to be the most elegant solution with least amount of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizodd Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 42 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said: I'll just quote this again as it seems to be the most elegant solution with least amount of work. It's a decent solution...but the best solution is still innate area looting for all frames, with the option to turn it off and/or customize what gets looted in a pause menu. Everyone will be happy with this solution (except for maybe [DE]). I'm kind of convinced at this point that [DE] is making this issue so unnecessarily complicated because they want players to miss out on resource drops in-mission and instead, buy resources with plat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll_Logic Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 9 hours ago, BulletsforTeeth said: to pick and choose what we vacuum, in turn increasing efficiency. I love how you define as picking up two thirds fewer items as "increasing efficiency." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorsContraction Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 11 minutes ago, Tizodd said: It's a decent solution...but the best solution is still innate area looting for all frames, with the option to turn it off and/or customize what gets looted in a pause menu. Everyone will be happy with this solution (except for maybe [DE]). I'm kind of convinced at this point that [DE] is making this issue so unnecessarily complicated because they want players to miss out on resource drops in-mission and instead, buy resources with plat. Only very new players would actually do this given how abundant resources are. Not to mention all the loot frames they're adding. First it was just nekros, then hydroid, then Atlas, and lastly ivara. Even when I was a new player, I was more constrained by lack of credits than resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyNotBro Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 57 minutes ago, Tizodd said: I'm kind of convinced at this point that [DE] is making this issue so unnecessarily complicated because they want players to miss out on resource drops in-mission and instead, buy resources with plat. I like that :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizodd Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 57 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said: Only very new players would actually do this given how abundant resources are... Consider the rarer resources that are used in many recipes like Neural Sensors, Neurodes, and Argon Crystals. Without Vacuum, you can very easily pass right by them by being less than a meter away with the current loot system. Yes, I know they have a vertical beam attached to them but that can be obscured by environmental obstacles; overlooked because of heat-of-battle focusing; or simply missed because of the faced paced action and movement inherent to Warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timur_the_lame Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tizodd said: It's a decent solution...but the best solution is still innate area looting for all frames, with the option to turn it off and/or customize what gets looted in a pause menu. Everyone will be happy with this solution (except for maybe [DE]). I'm kind of convinced at this point that [DE] is making this issue so unnecessarily complicated because they want players to miss out on resource drops in-mission and instead, buy resources with plat. Or they want us to spend plat on the mods themselves, the forma, or potatoes to put in the sentinels, etc. Watch them make the three new vacuum mods tied to an event. Edited September 21, 2016 by timur_the_lame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolomonGunn Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Could it be too problematic to just make the regular old fashioned Vacuum usable on all companions? There is no point or sense into splitting 1 mod into 3; some people say that it gives you choices or it's more efficient... that's just senseless, how it could be more efficient to miss some drops?; why to choose to either pick up ammo or energy when we already can pick up everything in one go. The game should be about running and gunning, reviving fallen teammates and killing bad guys left to right, not running around like beheaded chickens picking up drops one by one, that in many cases get stuck on walls or other glitches. And while I don't always agree with Quite Shallow, this time guess I'll do: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObviousLee Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 On 9/16/2016 at 11:26 AM, Mak_Gohae said: they are using my idea that i came up a long time ago and i am fine with it. It seems that there is going to be one mod to vac a certain drop. So ammo vac, mat vac, orb/mod vac. pretty sure they're using their idea. dunno why the hell people always assume that the devs are following player visiions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletsforTeeth Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 On 9/17/2016 at 6:08 AM, Demon.King said: If vacuum has to remain a mod, and people want customisation, I just thought, how about we make precept mod ranks actually count for something for once and make each level add a drop type to collect, rather than range. That is: R0 - Credits/Resources R1 - Mods/Endo R2 - Miscellaneous R3 - Ammo R4 - Health R5 - Energy Note that each level is additive, not exclusive. At R5 you would basically have the current R5 Vacuum. Near full customisation (even more than the proposed system anyway), 0 drawbacks compared to current. Win Win? Now this, both players and DE could agree upon. I'm not sure if there's any precedent for something like this in mods yet, though. Might take a fair bit of work, tying separate things to rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vohim Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 just make Loot Succ built in to warframes and give companion succ the ability to succ energy, hp and ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll_Logic Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Retepzednem said: just make Loot Succ built in to warframes and give companion succ the ability to succ energy, hp and ammo So if someone doesn't equip a companion that means? And if a companion dies, that means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vohim Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, Troll_Logic said: So if someone doesn't equip a companion that means? And if a companion dies, that means? the same thing that would happen if your sentinel with 3 diferent vacuum mods died or if you dint have any except you'd at least still be able to collect resources/loot effectively thanks to having loot gather range increase built in on your frames Edited September 21, 2016 by Retepzednem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll_Logic Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Just now, Retepzednem said: the same thing that would happen if your sentinel with 3 diferent vacuum mods died or if you dint have any So why split vacuum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vohim Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said: So why split vacuum? because DE is splitting vacuum into 3 with the reasoning being they want people to use more companions than just carrier but by splitting it into 3 vacuums not only does it severely cut mod slots It Still leaves Kavats and Kubrows behind so by building in Loot/mod vacuum into warframes , players then have simplified choices do i want a support sentinel that can get ammo hp and energy for me or do i want a kubrow or kavat for their buffs? and cuddles instead of welp i love my kat but cant get loot with it Edited September 21, 2016 by Retepzednem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ToothlessApollo Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 I have no problem with a universal vacuum but my question is why 3 mods? Why not one? And why not a vacuum for our pets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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