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Dev Stream 80: Carrier Changes feedback thread [Megathread]


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6 hours ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

when did this get said? A stream? Twitter? I havent seen it on the forums. I'd just like to verify. And it'd be nice if they bothered to make a post about this in the megathread on the topic, if indeed what you are saying is true.

 

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DE keeps looking at this like Vacuum itself is something that needs to be fixed. It isn't. There is nothing wrong with Vacuum other than the fact that it is Carrier exclusive. Vacuum isn't too strong, it isn't something that is overpowered, that isn't why it is being used by so many players. Vacuum is a band-aid for the loot system. The loot system is the problem, the loot system is what is broken and in need of fixing, and Vacuum helps mitigate it's frustrations. That is why so many people use it, that is why it is so popular. DE needs to start looking at Vacuum from that perspective.

So, as a band-aid that saves you from having to rework the whole loot system, Vacuum doesn't need to be nerfed to "balance" it's being made universal. The fact that it isn't universal is a flaw that has needed to be fixed for a long time. So it's less of a buff and more of a bug fix than anything. 

Also, if DE really wanted to nail this fix and do this the best way possible, they would drop the mindset that Vacuum must be associated with Sentinels. They would instead make Vacuum a Warframe passive. That would instantly fix all of the potential complications regarding companions because they would no longer be involved. People could choose whatever companion they wished without having to take Vacuum into consideration. Also, an option to toggle Vacuum on/off would be needed, so players that dislike Vacuum and don't want to have it could shut it off.

If Vacuum stayed as it is, and was made a Warframe passive, everybody wins. The only potential negative is that Mag would need a new passive as hers would be made redundant.

 

Edited by Silvus-Sol
Edited to clarify some stuff
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2 minutes ago, Silvus-Sol said:

DE keeps looking at this like Vacuum itself is something that needs to be fixed. It isn't. There is nothing wrong with Vacuum other than the fact that it is Carrier exclusive. Vacuum isn't too strong, it isn't something that is overpowered, that isn't why it is being used by so many players. Vacuum is a band-aid for the loot system. That is why people use it, that is why it is popular. DE needs to start looking at Vacuum from that perspective.

So, as a band-aid that saves you from having to rework the whole loot system, Vacuum doesn't need to be nerfed to "balance" it's being made universal. The fact that it isn't universal is a flaw that has needed to be fixed for a long time. So it's less of a buff and more of a bug fix than anything. 

Also, if DE really wanted to nail this fix and do this they best way possible, they would drop the mindset that Vacuum must be associated with Sentinels. They would instead make Vacuum a Warframe passive. That would instantly fix all of the potential complications regarding companions, because they would no longer be involved. People could choose whatever companion they wished without having to take Vacuum into consideration. Also, an option to toggle Vacuum on/off would be needed, so players that dislike Vacuum and don't want to have it could shut it off.

If Vacuum stayed as it is, and was made a Warframe passive, everybody wins. The only potential negative is that Mag would need a new passive as hers would be made redundant.

 

Best example of this is oxium farming, which is a huge pain without vacuum. Trying to get thousands of oxium for Vauban Prime or other items is a real chore when you might nab a couple hundred per mission, if lucky. Carrier really helped grinding these crazy amounts of materials on recent items.

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3 hours ago, Azrael said:

 

Wow. Firstly, sorry for doubting you. Secondly, DE, thats a pretty big slap in the face. You have a large chuck of your community telling you not to nerf vacuum, to make it universal to all companions or frames, etc and you disregard almost everything they say while calling it a community driven initiative, then lock down the thread when you have an outpouring of bad feedback, all while not even posting anything in the megathread on the topic... You really like PR nightmares dont ya?

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2 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

Wow. Firstly, sorry for doubting you. Secondly, DE, thats a pretty big slap in the face. You have a large chuck of your community telling you not to nerf vacuum, to make it universal to all companions or frames, etc and you disregard almost everything they say while calling it a community driven initiative, then lock down the thread when you have an outpouring of bad feedback, all while not even posting anything in the megathread on the topic... You really like PR nightmares dont ya?

It's much, much better than 3 mods, but it is sort of a nerf. Personally I'd be happy if carrier had innate 12m vacuum, while the others had innate 6m. That way litereally every sentinal will have recieved an objective buff, 12m vacuum is available to everyone who wants it, and people can get some vacuum without carrier.

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4 minutes ago, Azrael said:

It's much, much better than 3 mods, but it is sort of a nerf. Personally I'd be happy if carrier had innate 12m vacuum, while the others had innate 6m. That way litereally every sentinal will have recieved an objective buff, 12m vacuum is available to everyone who wants it, and people can get some vacuum without carrier.

Yeah but that' wouldn't nerf vacuum, which seems to be the goal. Get vacuum down to nothing so we "miss" resources. That way they can reduce all loot gained by players without having to just be honest and say they are reducing loot drops. Now they can blame us for not seeing it and picking it all up. It's the only explanation I can come up with for not leaving carrier with 12m and no new precept and adding 6m to all the others.

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14 minutes ago, Azrael said:

It's much, much better than 3 mods, but it is sort of a nerf. Personally I'd be happy if carrier had innate 12m vacuum, while the others had innate 6m. That way litereally every sentinal will have recieved an objective buff, 12m vacuum is available to everyone who wants it, and people can get some vacuum without carrier.

I, and from reading these forum, alot of others, are kinda fed up with 'better than it could be' ... we want it to be done right. Sorry to say this, but no one at DE plays their game like members of the community do, they are absolutely insane to think they know better than the majority of the feedback they're getting. You don't take something people having been wanting n jack it up and act like you're doing people a favor. Especially not when you have a decent amount of your longest supporters already leaving.

Edited by (XB1)ashes of suvius
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22 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

I, and from reading these forum, a lot of others, are kinda fed up with 'better than it could be' ... we want it to be done right. Sorry to say this, but no one at DE plays their game like members of the community do, they are absolutely insane to think they know better than the majority of the feedback they're getting. You don't take something people having been wanting n jack it up and act like you're doing people a favor. Especially not when you have a decent amount of your longest supporters already leaving.

Seriously, this. Nine out of ten people got nerfed this update, if even half of the people involved in bringing this live played this game as a player, even super casually, this would not have happened.

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1 minute ago, Racter said:

Seriously, this. Nine out of ten people got nerfed this update, if even half of the people involved in bringing this live played this game as a player, even super casually, this would not have happened.

It makes me wonder how much of the decision-making was actually left up to the staffers we communicate with.

I'm just that baffled.

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