Secura Lecta is a complete cop-out

[owendawgx]

"Double credit drops on kills"

Are you serious? 

ALL THE OTHER syndicate melee have some sort of combat bonus effect to them, and the Secura Lecta gets this worthless bonus? 

More credits doesn't help me kill or survive enemies. All the other effects do.

Please fix this. 

EDIT: Because most of the comments didn't even talk about the issue. 

It is a cop-out. I never said it was bad, or that it needed to be amazing. I said that it was lazy. Get off your high horse and actually address the issue presented instead of misconstruing the words of others. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by owendawgx

[DSpite]

Maybe then don't get it? And don't use it?

Don't you have enough combat capable weapons already? The answer is yes.

I'd rather there be new things that so something that we might not in fact use that often, then just "moar killa powa", which is a MASSIVE waste of time these days, since we have tons of that already.

You could "kill" and "survive" fine before they came out, and you still can.

There's nothing to "fix".

[ScorpioneITA]

What about chepalon's scans?

I don't think you saw the other weapons

also 2x credits can be useful to some.

[Alcoholism]

I like the concept but that's just me - if I'm running an easy mission I can take it for some extra credits along the way.
As it stands right now there are plenty of good damage dealing melee but not enough utility weapons. That's just my opinion though.

[TaylorsContraction]

More credits won't help you survive, but it will help a newer player (that won't have access to the weapon).

I think the passive is awesome, just not useful when many vets are sitting on 100+ mill. That doesn't make it bad, and the weapon itself is really strong. Instead of just whining though, how about you include suggestions of what effect you'd like instead?

It's clear the syndicate melee aren't getting the aoe procs, so suggest something you'd like and if it gains traction along with being balanced DE just might implement it. It won't be the first time they listen to us.

[Icpmcp]

But it sounds good for farming with a team of effigy Chromas

[Raniu]

Better make channeled fatal blows guarantee a credit drop. The syndicate passive bonus thing is unreliable as it is now :(

Edited September 17, 2016 by Raniu

[Dwolfknight]

what do you suggest the effect should be? remember it has to be on the theme of perrin sequence ideals

[lightdragon64]

most of the effects were chosen because of how they fit the theme of the syndicate...

[RealPandemonium]

This is a really useful effect, and now the Lecta has enough damage to be competitive as a status beatstick.  It's a success in my book.  

[TwevOWNED]

1 minute ago, RealPandemonium said:

This is a really useful effect, and now the Lecta has enough damage to be competitive as a status beatstick.  It's a success in my book.  

The effect is not useful. If it was 2x credits from all sources while equipped it would be useful, but you need to kill the enemy with the Lecta, and then they have to drop credits, and if they do that then the abysmally low amount that gets dropped normally is doubled to become a pitiful amount. Twice of nothing is still nothing. A passive that makes status buffs chain between enemies would have fit their "Sequence" theme and also would have been effective on the weapon. 

The weapon itself is a Status Melee weapon which cannot utilize the Berserker mod, and because of that will get less status effects applied per minute than a fast swinging crit weapon. Not to mention it's completely inferior to the Atterax.

[RealPandemonium]

44 minutes ago, TwevOWNED said:

The effect is not useful. If it was 2x credits from all sources while equipped it would be useful, but you need to kill the enemy with the Lecta, and then they have to drop credits, and if they do that then the abysmally low amount that gets dropped normally is doubled to become a pitiful amount. Twice of nothing is still nothing. A passive that makes status buffs chain between enemies would have fit their "Sequence" theme and also would have been effective on the weapon. 

The weapon itself is a Status Melee weapon which cannot utilize the Berserker mod, and because of that will get less status effects applied per minute than a fast swinging crit weapon. Not to mention it's completely inferior to the Atterax.

It's a full elemental weapon, which makes it more reliable for status.  Everything can utilize Berserker due to Shadow Debt mods, and Secura Lecta is 25% faster than its base variant already.  I just used the base Lecta in today's Sortie to good effect; the Secura Lecta should be more than twice as effective.  I'm stoked to finally get it later tonight.  

[TwevOWNED]

Just now, RealPandemonium said:

It's a full elemental weapon, which makes it more reliable for status.  Everything can utilize Berserker due to Shadow Debt mods, and Secura Lecta is 25% faster than its base variant already.  I just used the base Lecta in today's Sortie to good effect; the Secura Lecta should be more than twice as effective.  I'm stoked to finally get it later tonight.  

Lecta misses out on the second most powerful proc in the game though: Slash.

[shut]

1 hour ago, Dwolfknight said:

what do you suggest the effect should be? remember it has to be on the theme of perrin sequence ideals

If it were up to me, I'd probably change it from "2x credit drops" to "increased drop chance for ammo / health orbs / energy orbs / life support / etc on kill" (as opposed to increasing drop rates for credits and resources and such).

The Secura Lecta is the only syndicate weapon in the entire game whose passive gives literally no combat utility whatsoever. That needs to change.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

The description for the Secura Penta in-game reads like this: 

"Ruthless and efficient, just like the free-market."

The way I see the Secura Lecta is that revenue gained in battle should also boost its Ruthlessness, Tenacity, and Efficiency on the field. Gaining more revenue on kill presents the weapon (Secura Lecta) as just a means in achieving that goal, but not the embodiment of that goal essentially.

I'd probably take increase attack speed per credits gained on the field with a max cap stack, because I truly and honestly need a reason to be a hungry gold digger with a whip in hand to manipulate the Galactic Stock Market. 

Edited September 17, 2016 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[(PSN)MrNishi]

On 9/17/2016 at 10:11 AM, TwevOWNED said:

Lecta misses out on the second most powerful proc in the game though: Slash.

Slash is indeed amazing for the armor ignore, but Gas on normal Lecta can compete with Atterax with both utilizing Stealth Melee Multiplier on DoTs vs Fully Armored lvl140 Corrupted Bombards 

In my opinion Normal Lecta is almost as Quick to kill as Atterax in these videos, even with the unlucky placement where a Single Bombard didn't die with group:

Secura Lecta having a damage and speed buff should make it more efficient than Atterax in same comparion.

Also with outside modifiers included; such as Corrosive Projection/or other teammates Armor removal, Viral half-health prices, or Charm/Cat's Eye being applied Lecta (& Secura Lecta) gain a larger benefit than Atterax*

On 9/17/2016 at 8:24 AM, Dwolfknight said:

what do you suggest the effect should be? remember it has to be on the theme of perrin sequence ideals

Following Perrin Sequence theme and current Credit drop mechanic of Secura Lecta - 

I would prefer a mechanic where credit pickups while Secura Lecta is in load out (equipped or holstered) current weapon status is doubled for 8secs. 8sec duration has to end in order to refresh doubled status bonus on credit pick-up.

This allows Credit drops to still synergize with Perrin Sequence Sundays & can be a play on words with Credit Wealth increasing Status.

Edited September 20, 2016 by (PS4)MrNishi

[HollowExistence]

how about it keeps the 2x credits cause greed numbs the pain.

In my opinion just like the telos boltace it should have an additional special offensive feature.
The current weapons were based of off gameplay mechanics to some extent:

• boltace: spin
• heliocor: channel
• dark dagger: stealth
• sydon: block
• magistar: charge
   
• lecta: slam?
   

following this schema maybe the lecta could have some sort of mechanic that utilizes slam attacks - which are rather useless on whips and create a niche

Suggestion: Slam radius 15m affected by Primed reach - forced lightnig proc (or even lightning proc + dot for 5 sec) and attacks on targets get an additive +30% status chance (higher if not additive)
Maybe spitball some cool slam mechanics?

Edited September 20, 2016 by HollowExistence

[Epilogia]

On 2016. 09. 17. at 5:17 PM, TaylorsContraction said:

More credits won't help you survive, but it will help a newer player (that won't have access to the weapon).

I think the passive is awesome, just not useful when many vets are sitting on 100+ mill. That doesn't make it bad, and the weapon itself is really strong. Instead of just whining though, how about you include suggestions of what effect you'd like instead?

It's clear the syndicate melee aren't getting the aoe procs, so suggest something you'd like and if it gains traction along with being balanced DE just might implement it. It won't be the first time they listen to us.

It's a MR8 weapon. Do we consider that a new player?
Also, do you even know the amount of credits you get from mobs? Okay, here's some math:
About every 10th mob drops credits. It can vary between 10 and 300, but it's usually lower than max. Let's see if you go to a Dark Sector mission for 5 mins. You will kill around 250-300 enemies, and you have to kill all those with your Lecta only, so that means you will get credits from about 25-30 mobs. That results in 300×30=9000 credits, and this is the BEST case scenario that you will ever encounter. You will get 20000 for just completing the 5 min survival. So is it worth it to use the Lecta for credits? The amount you get is almost non-existant in most cases. Probably useful for MR0-5 but those people can't use this weapon.
The weapon has okay damage, but not "really strong", it's not even in the same league as the most used weapons, it doesn't have crit so it's inferior to even the Atterax.

Also, I had some suggestions in my thread, some that would make the weapon almost top-tier, some that would make it an actually useful weapon. I'm just waiting at the moment.

[TaylorsContraction]

By you own example you demonstrate that the credit gain is good. Instead of 20k credits you got 29k credits. When I was a new player I was broke all the time all the way to mr 20. Fusion costs credits, pets cost credits, sentinel bp's are 100k, credits. Syndicates upgrades cost credits, all things new players have to do. Earning 9k extra credits per mission is not insignificant given how many missions we run and how many credits are required for newer players.

I'm glad you made some good suggestions in your thread, but op hasn't even edited his post with any as of yet.

[Epilogia]

30 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

By you own example you demonstrate that the credit gain is good. Instead of 20k credits you got 29k credits. When I was a new player I was broke all the time all the way to mr 20. Fusion costs credits, pets cost credits, sentinel bp's are 100k, credits. Syndicates upgrades cost credits, all things new players have to do. Earning 9k extra credits per mission is not insignificant given how many missions we run and how many credits are required for newer players.

I'm glad you made some good suggestions in your thread, but op hasn't even edited his post with any as of yet.

Yes, 9K credits is not THAT bad, but that's the best case scenario, I played a 5 min Dark Sector, I killed with Secura Lecta only and picked up a bunch of credits from containers and also killed 290 enemies. This way I earned 5666 credits. The credits I got were mostly from containers, just by slashing through 12 at the beginning i was already at 1100. So no, the way I see it is that the passive is completely useless, if you want extra credits you can just go with a full party of 4 people and kill more mobs like that, and everyone will pick up the same amount of credits so you'll earn more. Few days ago we were doing some credit runs in Dark Sector survivals, and we got 12K+ credits in 5 minutes.

[shut]

9 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Slash is indeed amazing for the armor ignore, but Gas on normal Lecta can compete with Atterax with both utilizing Stealth Melee Multiplier on DoTs vs Fully Armored lvl140 Corrupted Bombards 

In my opinion Normal Lecta is almost as Quick to kill as Atterax in these videos, even with the unlucky placement where a Single Bombard didn't die with group:

Secura Lecta having a damage and speed buff should make it more efficient than Atterax in same comparion.

Also with outside modifiers included; such as Corrosive Projection/or other teammates Armor removal, Viral half-health prices, or Charm/Cat's Eye being applied Lecta (& Secura Lecta) gain a larger benefit than Atterax*

Following Perrin Sequence theme and current Credit drop mechanic of Secura Lecta - 

I would prefer a mechanic where credit pickups while Secura Lecta is in load out (equipped or holstered) current weapon status is doubled for 8secs. 8sec duration has to end in order to refresh doubled status bonus on credit pick-up.

This allows Credit drops to still synergize with Perrin Sequence Sundays & can be a play on words with Credit Wealth increasing Status.

Not that I don't appreciate you doing the testing (I'm definitely going to be grabbing a secura lecta after watching your video), but in all fairness, you're using one of the few abilities in the game that multiplies melee DoT damage by 64x.

 With Silence or Radial Blind or something, things are obviously going to tip things in favour of a status-based weapon like the Lecta-- whereas weapons that are based more on raw damage (e.g. Atterax with Maiming Strike) don't benefit quite as much. The end result is that the E-spamming Lecta slightly outperforms the E-spamming Atterax on blinded enemies, whereas a slide-attack-spamming Atterax will completely annihilate the anything-spamming Lecta on not-blinded enemies.

 

I haven't used the Lecta at all, so take my words with a grain of salt, but this is very similar to the situation between the Atterax and TBoltace (which has a 100% chance to cause a weak bleed proc on every slide attack).

The Atterax hits harder than TBoltace waves (especially at a distance) thanks to its Blood Rush compatibility-- but the instant you have an Excal on the map and bleed procs suddenly become 8x more important than usual, the TBoltace immediately changes from "god-tier Atterax sidegrade" to "universe-deleting undeniable champion of all melee weapons in the game".

[Skaleek]

On 9/17/2016 at 10:57 AM, owendawgx said:

"Double credit drops on kills"

Are you serious? 

ALL THE OTHER syndicate melee have some sort of combat bonus effect to them, and the Secura Lecta gets this worthless bonus? 

More credits doesn't help me kill or survive enemies. All the other effects do.

Please fix this. 

Pretty bad passive, but biggest (I think?) base buffs for any of the syndicate melees.

 

EDIT: Sancti magistar actually got a lot of love too, 10% innate explosive proc too, yeowza sancti magistar is a beast.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Skaleek

[(PSN)MrNishi]

19 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Not that I don't appreciate you doing the testing (I'm definitely going to be grabbing a secura lecta after watching your video), but in all fairness, you're using one of the few abilities in the game that multiplies melee DoT damage by 64x.

 With Silence or Radial Blind or something, things are obviously going to tip things in favour of a status-based weapon like the Lecta-- whereas weapons that are based more on raw damage (e.g. Atterax with Maiming Strike) don't benefit quite as much. The end result is that the E-spamming Lecta slightly outperforms the E-spamming Atterax on blinded enemies, whereas a slide-attack-spamming Atterax will completely annihilate the anything-spamming Lecta on not-blinded enemies.

 

I haven't used the Lecta at all, so take my words with a grain of salt, but this is very similar to the situation between the Atterax and TBoltace (which has a 100% chance to cause a weak bleed proc on every slide attack).

The Atterax hits harder than TBoltace waves (especially at a distance) thanks to its Blood Rush compatibility-- but the instant you have an Excal on the map and bleed procs suddenly become 8x more important than usual, the TBoltace immediately changes from "god-tier Atterax sidegrade" to "universe-deleting undeniable champion of all melee weapons in the game".

I can't test Secura Lecta at the moment but I was just showing comparison of what people call trash-tier normal Lecta vs Atterax in a Melee-purpose built setting. And this was against Fully Alloy Armored Heavies....if it were Heavy Gunners than the AoE Toxin of Gas pushes the advantage towards Gas Lecta all the more. You use any Armor reduction with Corrosive or Armor stripping ability and again it boosts Gas status build more than Atterax Slash.

 

Even with your comment about having Excel on the map making the Bleed proc 8x more important ....still would be where a Gas Lecta/Secura Lecta with 100% status build and Maiming Strike with Blood Rush still more than perfectly viable even against high fully Armored enemies.

 

 

From what I have tested it is limited to:

Oberon Reckoning Blind

Ash Smokescreen (Smoke Shadow Augment) (Teleport if you back step before attacking with melee to avoid finisher animation*) 

Excalibur Radial Blind(Radial Finish Augment)/Exalted slide Blind

Valkyr non-Augment Paralysis (works like Savage Silence for the fixed duration stun granting Stealth Multiplier...however short range makes it more likely to trigger Finisher animation)

Wukong Cloud Walker

Banshee Savage Silence (or Normal Silence plus Naramon Shadowstep)

Equinox Rest

Vauban Bastille

Ivara Sleep

Mirage Prism

Inaros Dessication

Oddball or unorthodox methods:

Mesa Muzzle Flash (Can work but is not very reliable**)

Loki Short Duration Invisibility as reactivating resets Stealth Melee Multiplier

Naramon Shadowstep (either short so at base level or you need to wait for enemy to reenter insert status...some Warframe stun abilities will trigger unalert status to synergize with Shadowstep for full Stealth Multiplier on DoT duration.)

Most unlikely to be used is to apply the Melee status procs and then enter the downed/dead state.

-This unorthodox method can be boosted by Provoked and Undying Will

Not that anyone would legitimately rely on applying status procs and then dying to get Stealth Multiplier on the DoTs***(lol)

Some of these Warframes are used commonly by community but not for Blind Melee usage.

So about a 1/3 of the available Warframes can abuseuse Stealth Melee Multiplier for Gas status builds.

Funny thing is Ash kills really high level enemies like in the Tennocon alert faster using Stealth Modifier Gas melee than spamming Bladestorm, but community seems set on Bladestorm being more viable , heck even guns being more viable against high-level enemies than status melee****

 

 

 

[Neightrix]

It needs at least 10%/2.0x crit stats. Preferably more. That's how you make it better. Same with Rakta Dark Dagger.

[shut]

13 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Even with your comment about having Excel on the map making the Bleed proc 8x more important ....still would be where a Gas Lecta/Secura Lecta with 100% status build and Maiming Strike with Blood Rush still more than perfectly viable even against high fully Armored enemies.

You misunderstand. What I meant was that having Excal or SS Banshee would increase the damage of melee DoTs in general-- that is, "blinded / Savage Silence'd / etc" enemies receive 8x damage from regular melee hits, and due to a bugged interaction, they also receive 64x damage from DoT procs.

I did some testing just now, and it turns out that because of the way Gas procs calculate damage, gas procs will deal 512x damage against Blinded enemies thanks to the bug. I just slapped some mods on a Silva&Aegis in the Simalcrum and it literally has a 44% chance (i.e. its proc chance) to oneshot level 100+ Heavy Gunners with a single slide attack. That's at a 1x combo counter without landing a crit; the only requirement is that the target is blind.
(Without Blind, this exact build took not one, not ten, but 372 hits to kill that same heavy gunner. Think about that for a second.)

How the bug works, for those curious:

 

Here's how the bug works, so the devs can fix it more easily (and we can screw around with it while we wait). Pretend for a moment that your weapon has 100% chance to land a DoT proc such as Bleed or Toxin.

 

Just some info:

Certain abilities (Blind, Savage Silence, Dessication, etc) allow you to hit enemies with multiple consecutive stealth hits while active. That is, hitting them won't break the multiplier.

Also, the funny thing about Gas is: landing a Gas proc will spawn a cloud that deals a single instance of damage (scaling with weapon damage). This cloud then has a 100% chance to proc Toxin on everything hit (scaling with the cloud's single instance of damage).

So:

 

When you hit an enemy normally:
- Your hit deals 1x damage. Your DoT, which scales off the damage of the first hit, deals 1x its usual damage.

When you hit an enemy in stealth:
- Your first hit deals 8x damage. Your DoT, which scales off the damage of the first hit, deals 8x its usual damage.

When you hit a blinded enemy:
- Your first hit deals 8x damage. Your DoT, which scales off the damage of the first hit and still has an active stealth multiplier, deals 64x its usual damage.

When you hit a blinded enemy with a GAS proc:
- Your first hit deals 8x damage. Your cloud, which scales off the damage of the first hit and still has an active stealth multiplier, deals 64x damage. Your DoT, which scales off the damage of the cloud and still has an active stealth multiplier, deals 512x its usual damage.

 

 

So, long story short, DoT-oriented weapons (e.g. Lecta, TBoltace waves) will benefit MUCH more from blind/SS/etc than raw-damage-oriented weapons (e.g. Redeemer, not-Telos Boltace, Atterax).
My main point was that, without Savage Silence, your Lecta wouldn't have killed enemies nearly as efficiently.

 

13 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

From what I have tested it is limited to:

Oberon Reckoning Blind

Ash Smokescreen (Smoke Shadow Augment) (Teleport if you back step before attacking with melee to avoid finisher animation*) 

Excalibur Radial Blind(Radial Finish Augment)/Exalted slide Blind

Valkyr non-Augment Paralysis (works like Savage Silence for the fixed duration stun granting Stealth Multiplier...however short range makes it more likely to trigger Finisher animation)

Wukong Cloud Walker

Banshee Savage Silence (or Normal Silence plus Naramon Shadowstep)

Equinox Rest

Vauban Bastille

Ivara Sleep

etc etc...

I should've been more clear; what I meant was that Radial Blind and Savage Silence that are some of the few abilities that can produce consecutive stealth hits efficiently.

Looking through your list, there are a couple things off the top of my head that I wanna mention:

 

- Reckoning is absolutely atrocious for Blinding enemies. It will blind enemies within ~4m of another Reckon'd enemy, on the condition that the enemy itself was not hit. So if you've got a thousand enemies pooled into one spot and you press 4... not one of them will be Blinded.

- Ash's Smokescreen cannot proc Finishers / multiple consecutive stealth multipliers, and has never had this ability. (Funnily enough, though, you can actually spam Teleport to keep the target prone to multiple consecutive stealth hits. Of course, you'll probably need someone else to actually land those hits, but still.)

- Cloud Walker is much too slow to do this effectively.

- Bastille doesn't have stealth multiplier capabilities at all. If you're landing stealth multipliers on Bastille'd enemies, it's because they're locked in the state that they were in before they got trapped (i.e. if they were unalerted, they should stay unalerted when Bastille hits.)

- etc..

 

Granted, there are definitely plenty of other options for Blinding enemies (with Dessicate being one of the best ones out there). I wouldn't go as far as to say that 1/3 of the frames can do it with ease, though. Not even close.

 

Also, keep in mind that this only works for "blinding"-type abilities. Refreshing Invisibility or Naramon (or, you know, just waiting until 2 seconds after their last contact with you before hitting them again-- which refreshes the stealth multiplier when invisible) isn't going to work the same way-- Slash/Toxin procs are just going to deal 8x damage like the weapon itself (or 64x with Gas), or 1x if the DoT hadn't completely stopped before you hit the enemy again.

Edited September 21, 2016 by SortaRandom
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