Secura Lecta is a complete cop-out

[Fansay]

That's absolutely freeking crazy. I LOVE IT!
Time to get out the Lacera and Gas it up!

Now what's the range like on the lacera?

[shut]

23 minutes ago, Fansay said:

Now what's the range like on the lacera?

Slightly longer than a longsword on slide attacks. Combos are mostly short-ranged as well, but with occasional moments of "Well, I guess this thing technically has the biggest melee range in the game" few and far in between.

That's been my experience with the Mios, anyway. I assume the Lacera has identical hitboxes.

Edited September 21, 2016 by SortaRandom

[RealPandemonium]

Hooray for stupid bugs.  I wonder how long it will take to fix this one.

[shut]

49 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Hooray for stupid bugs.  I wonder how long it will take to fix this one.

I'm getting the feeling that it's been this way since Damage 2.0 hit-- albeit with smaller multipliers, since stealth used to give 4x damage and not 8x. A lot of players have noticed something odd about DoT interactions on blinded enemies a long while back (I think I started building for Status on my OrthosP and Exalted Blade and all that over a year ago when I noticed how quickly it shredded things with post-U16.3.3 Excalibur-- which was when Radiant Finish was released, and Blind started allowing multiple consecutive stealth hits for the first time since the "stealth hits only work once" mechanic was introduced).

The bug's been around for a while; we just haven't seen anyone post how it works numerically. Until I figured out the numbers yesterday and potentially ruined the bug for those who abused it in silence, I guess.

Edited September 21, 2016 by SortaRandom

[(PSN)MrNishi]

@Sorta Random - Yes I probably should have more of those listed under Unorthodox along with situational Parry/auto-parry & Justice Proc (Justice Proc really only works with Quick-Melee friendly builds to avoid single target finisher)

When you were testing Gas procs were they not acting as doubled damage Toxin procs? (It seems Gas is more commonly getting headshot Multiplier in comparison to just running Toxin only)

I totally agree that Status weapons fail if not including Stealth Melee Multiplier on the DoTs.

But that was more of my melee argument: People are saying the 'General Crit Weapons' are top-tier ; yet were excluding using the strongest Melee Multiplier... (Shouldn't the Best Melee perform the best in a playstyle built around the best Melee Multiplier)

I never said normal Lecta was top-tier, just that I didn't understand it being labeled as trash-tier when it can be built to perform. Unlike Halikur!!!

I assume DE would leave Status + Stealth Multiplier as-is until Damage 3.0, as it is the only way Status can compete with crit current mechanics for High-level enemies. 

(Also Silence/Savage Silence no longer grants bonus or stun to bosses unlike Blind abilities* Also Silence Stealth Multiplier buff is limited to 3secs not including enemy slow* So the DoTs have to be rebuffed by Stealth Multiplier every 3secs)

I greatly appreciate you taking the time to test and not just completely disregard the status DoTs w/Stealth Multiplier

Great work fellow Tenno!

 

Vauban Bastille had been working for Stealth Multipliers...was how Glaive thrown builds made easy large numbers even back before Augments were added to the game.

Was working on long Survivals and Defense missions were enemies should have been in the alerted state. But it is possible the enemies could have been unalerted state: like the Staelth kill challenge where you can hit freshly spawned enemies and they get the Stealth Multiplier, but do not count towards Stealth kill challenge nor towards Stealth Affinity bonus.

 

Ash Smokescreen short duration on PS4 is renewing the Stealth Multiplier as it is counting Ash as re-entering Stealth.

Wukong can stack and then Cloudwalk as the DoTs grow (really more efficient for Single Target bosses than for room clearing)

I think Naramon Shadowstep + Normal Silence is behaving the equivalent of re-entering Stealth to reapply Stealth Multiplier on DoTs

 

 

[/S]

Edited September 21, 2016 by (PS4)MrNishi

[RealPandemonium]

6 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

I'm getting the feeling that it's been this way since Damage 2.0 hit-- albeit with smaller multipliers, since stealth used to give 4x damage and not 8x. A lot of players have noticed something odd about DoT interactions on blinded enemies a long while back (I think I started building for Status on my OrthosP and Exalted Blade and all that over a year ago when I noticed how quickly it shredded things with post-U16.3.3 Excalibur-- which was when Radiant Finish was released, and Blind started allowing multiple consecutive stealth hits for the first time since the "stealth hits only work once" mechanic was introduced).

The bug's been around for a while; we just haven't seen anyone post how it works numerically. Until I figured out the numbers yesterday and potentially ruined the bug for those who abused it in silence, I guess.

The melee DoT bug was first reported with regularity after Mios was released.  Many noted that that they were getting "critical" slash procs that were doing way more damage than expected.  I also don't think that stealth is supposed to give x8 damage at all, but still give x4.  Of course, DE probably doesn't even know about this yet despite it being widespread for months.

[Chipputer]

On 9/20/2016 at 8:41 AM, ShadowFox14 said:

It's a MR8 weapon. Do we consider that a new player?

Considering the amount of people I see using Chroma's Effigy to farm credits in the double digits of Mastery, I fail to see how a MR8 suddenly invalidates the doubled credits gain.

[Epilogia]

17 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Considering the amount of people I see using Chroma's Effigy to farm credits in the double digits of Mastery, I fail to see how a MR8 suddenly invalidates the doubled credits gain.

Okay, I'll put it like this: I had 12 million credits at MR7 without any boosters used. Also, seen people at MR10-15 who had 600M credits. If they need to use Chroma's Effigy boost to get credits at MR20 then they might be doing something wrong.

[RealPandemonium]

6 hours ago, ShadowFox14 said:

Okay, I'll put it like this: I had 12 million credits at MR7 without any boosters used. Also, seen people at MR10-15 who had 600M credits. If they need to use Chroma's Effigy boost to get credits at MR20 then they might be doing something wrong.

If you don't use your credits then yes, they will pile up.  If you upgrade a lot of mods and craft frequently, your credits will be much lower.  

[owendawgx]

On 9/17/2016 at 10:05 AM, DSpite said:

Maybe then don't get it? And don't use it?

Don't you have enough combat capable weapons already? The answer is yes.

I'd rather there be new things that so something that we might not in fact use that often, then just "moar killa powa", which is a MASSIVE waste of time these days, since we have tons of that already.

You could "kill" and "survive" fine before they came out, and you still can.

There's nothing to "fix".

Its passive is useless. The credits it gains are inconsistent and minuscule, as well as being completely worthless to practically anyone above mastery 8 in the first place. 

The issue isn't the weapon, or that it's bad. It's not. Never once did I say it was bad. I said it was a cop out. Please read the actual post before trying to be all high and mighty, I'm seeing tons of comments arguing against things that I never claimed. Try actually listening to what someone is saying instead of making up your own version of it. That's called a logical fallacy. 

It's straight up lazy. This is literally undeniable. Stop trying to act like you know what you're talking about by not actually addressing the issue that was brought up.. 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

2 hours ago, owendawgx said:

Its passive is useless. The credits it gains are inconsistent and minuscule, as well as being completely worthless to practically anyone above mastery 8 in the first place. 

The issue isn't the weapon, or that it's bad. It's not. Never once did I say it was bad. I said it was a cop out. Please read the actual post before trying to be all high and mighty, I'm seeing tons of comments arguing against things that I never claimed. Try actually listening to what someone is saying instead of making up your own version of it. That's called a logical fallacy. 

It's straight up lazy. This is literally undeniable. Stop trying to act like you know what you're talking about by not actually addressing the issue that was brought up.. 

Some of the Posts by others were that the Doubled credit gain was useless because the weapon was not viable....like 'completely inferior to Atterax' 

And thus the off-topic side-bar of Melee Status talk

 

There were some suggestions for Passives mentioned:

On 9/17/2016 at 8:24 AM, Dwolfknight said:

what do you suggest the effect should be? remember it has to be on the theme of perrin sequence ideals

I believe doubled credits for having weapon loadout could be the passive and that Secura Lecta kills grants a 6or8 sec doubled status boost.

Allowing unorthodox Status builds on some guns (Miter could be 100% Physical Status Weapon with no Elemental damage mods needed)*

I am all about sticking to 'Wealth increasing Status'

 

 

Ignore spoiler : I can't remove empty quote

On 9/17/2016 at 9:23 AM, TwevOWNED said:

 

[Eldritchsqueaker]

I agree that the Secura Lecta's passive was lazily thought out, in my opinion all the new melees needed two things. 1. A small fluff related bonus while having it out, like the, Sancti Magistar, Rakta DD and the Telos Boltace have. Lecta could have had a bonus to shields or to shield regen or something- anything really. 2. A passive that modifies how you use it somehow, the boltace and the magistar do this the best, the Rakta's passive almost seems like it would fit the Lecta better because of Perrin having more association with shields.

[YagoXiten]

5 hours ago, Eldritchkitty said:

I agree that the Secura Lecta's passive was lazily thought out, in my opinion all the new melees needed two things. 1. A small fluff related bonus while having it out, like the, Sancti Magistar, Rakta DD and the Telos Boltace have. Lecta could have had a bonus to shields or to shield regen or something- anything really. 2. A passive that modifies how you use it somehow, the boltace and the magistar do this the best, the Rakta's passive almost seems like it would fit the Lecta better because of Perrin having more association with shields.

The Perrin Sequence's Sequence effect is also Radiation damage. Whilst I understand that the Dark Dagger is a Radiation innate damage weapon, it doesn't have that much status chance (even with Gleaming Blight equipped), and it's an odd effect choice for Red Veil. I don't think it's an outright wrong thing for the Red Veil to have, but it definitely seems like it should have been on the Secura Lecta. Especially when realizing that the second passive for the Secura Lecta is increased speed for Finisher animations, which is far better on a Covert Lethality weapon.

Edited September 24, 2016 by YagoXiten

[LuckyCharm]

It's a corpus whip... can't we...pop nullifier bubbles in 1 hit with it? I'd much prefer that passive since thematically it makes sense that the corpus wouldn't armour to fight their own weapons

[(PSN)MrNishi]

1 minute ago, LuckyCharm said:

It's a corpus whip... can't we...pop nullifier bubbles in 1 hit with it? I'd much prefer that passive since thematically it makes sense that the corpus wouldn't armour to fight their own weapons

Seems fair to me....Not like Nullifiers are immune to Secura Audits...

[Misgenesis]

Its a little disheartening, could at least guarantee credit drops from enemies but im not too bothered. Its still the most useful syndicate melee for me.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

11 hours ago, YagoXiten said:

Especially when realizing that the second passive for the Secura Lecta is increased speed for Finisher animations, which is far better on a Covert Lethality weapon.

The Secura Lecta has an increased attack speed over the original Lecta. Attack speed affects Melee Finisher animations. The Secura Lecta does not have a secondary passive that boosts the speed of Melee Finisher animations.

[YagoXiten]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

The Secura Lecta has an increased attack speed over the original Lecta. Attack speed affects Melee Finisher animations. The Secura Lecta does not have a secondary passive that boosts the speed of Melee Finisher animations.

There was a community moderator who posted in one of the Syndicate weapon threads who said that it had 50% faster finisher animations, and they said that information was directly from the devs. Apparently, each Syndicate melee weapon is supposed to have two passives. Datamining also said that the Secura Lecta had increased finisher speed.

I am well aware that attack speed affects finisher animations. And whilst I haven't tested it, myself, there's a pretty easy way to do it. Simply take Volt with -50% Power Strength from Overextended, cast Speed, and use the normal Lecta to do a finisher, then compare it to the Secura Lecta with no mods equipped.

EDIT:

Here is the thread and said post.

On 9/16/2016 at 2:04 PM, theclinton said:

Im telling you straight from a dev that the second passive is faster finisher animations lol

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2016 by YagoXiten

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

I see, I wasn't aware there was any mention that the Secura Lecta had a secondary passive. And that its boost to attack speed from the original Lecta kinda made the idea of an increase to Finisher animation speed a likely assumption.

[Azrael]

On 9/21/2016 at 1:56 AM, SortaRandom said:

Granted, there are definitely plenty of other options for Blinding enemies (with Dessicate being one of the best ones out there). I wouldn't go as far as to say that 1/3 of the frames can do it with ease, though. Not even close

But ivara, equinox, Excal, banshee, Inaros, and mirage can easily multiply DoT damage for the entire team, so it is only necessary to have one of these frames in the squad. While that's still somewhat restrictive, it's enough to make such a strategy viable, and not just an odd synergy. In my book that's enough to make the Secura Lecta officially end-game viable. 

I'll agree the passive is a little underwhelming if you're farming credits. But if you intend to do a long survival mission it can add up. For example, a little while ago I did 25 minutes on selkie, sedna, to level up the Lecta. I had a credit booster, and I got 53k credits. I got like 9k for the actual mission. Is it better than explicit farming? No. But it isn't completely useless either. 

I'd be in favor of a credit related buff though. Someone suggested a range increase related to credit pickup, and while I worry that it'd be overpowered, it sounds interesting. 

[shut]

55 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

But ivara, equinox, Excal, banshee, Inaros, and mirage can easily multiply DoT damage for the entire team, so it is only necessary to have one of these frames in the squad. While that's still somewhat restrictive, it's enough to make such a strategy viable, and not just an odd synergy. In my book that's enough to make the Secura Lecta officially end-game viable.

Remember, though, that the SLecta kinda sucks combat-wise without this synergy (unless you're running a Radiation CC build or something, in which case you've got no DoT anyways). By equipping the SLecta on a frame that can't blind stuff, you're basically holding a dead melee slot unless matchmaking gives you a lucky roll of the dice and you get a Blinder in your squad.

Obviously an organized squad can make this weapon work on any frame, but if you're just doing typical Sortie PuGs or something, then, I mean, you might as well bring in a Volt with a CL dagger for all the reliability your melee weapon will have.

 

And don't forget that this interaction is most likely a bug, not a feature.
As much as I would love for this to not be the case, remember that if the stealth multipliers were actually functioning properly, the SLecta would barely be able to tickle high-leveled grineer, let alone (god forbid) hold its own against other endgame-tier weapons.

[Azrael]

10 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Remember, though, that the SLecta kinda sucks combat-wise without this synergy (unless you're running a Radiation CC build or something, in which case you've got no DoT anyways). By equipping the SLecta on a frame that can't blind stuff, you're basically holding a dead melee slot unless matchmaking gives you a lucky roll of the dice and you get a Blinder in your squad

The SL is perfectly serviceable at any level where I'm likely to be playing in public mode. The only exception I can think of is a grineer sortie 3, and at that point I'll want a rad + viral utility melee anyway. The way I see it is at any level in the game at all the SL is either going to be a good weapon, a good blind+DoT killer, or a good alternative to a rad+viral serro used as utility (with status duration, for CC and viral procs). I'm not saying the passive couldn't use some work, or that it's the best melee in the game ( actually I think the serro may still be better at DoT killing), I'm just saying it's good and fun and worth a few forma. 

 

17 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

And don't forget that this interaction is most likely a bug, not a feature

God I hope not. That interaction is what makes status competitive with Crit despite shadow debt mods. But then it wouldn't be the first time DE has nerfed something interesting and strong but left something boring and overpowered alone. With our luck they'll nerf status but leave the synoid mirage and galatine prime right where they are. 

[shut]

15 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

The SL is perfectly serviceable at any level where I'm likely to be playing in public mode. The only exception I can think of is a grineer sortie 3, and at that point I'll want a rad + viral utility melee anyway. The way I see it is at any level in the game at all the SL is either going to be a good weapon, a good blind+DoT killer, or a good alternative to a rad+viral serro used as utility (with status duration, for CC and viral procs). I'm not saying the passive couldn't use some work, or that it's the best melee in the game ( actually I think the serro may still be better at DoT killing), I'm just saying it's good and fun and worth a few forma. 

 

If "good and fun and worth a few forma" are enough for a weapon to be considered "endgame-viable", then you could say that about LOADS of weapons in the game, including things like the Braton Prime or the Silva&Aegis. I mean, yeah, they can hold their own in a Sortie mission if you've got a whole loadout set up around them, but the main issue is that they're not so much "weak" as they are "outclassed".

 

16 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

With our luck they'll nerf status but leave the synoid mirage and galatine prime right where they are. 

Both Synoid Mirage and the Galatine Prime are already completely blown out of the water by the Atterax (Maiming Strike + Blood Rush bug), which in turn is situationally outclassed by the Telos Boltace (Blind + Status bug). The SSimulor and GP are hardly the most powerful weapons in the game.

[Azrael]

15 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

but the main issue is that they're not so much "weak" as they are "outclassed

Sure. But following that logic will lead to a very limited weapon selection and some pretty boring play sessions, followed by burnout because "there's nothing left to do." Come to think of it, that's basically what's happening to a lot of people. I use weapons because they work and are fun, not because there's nothing better. 

[shut]

12 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Sure. But following that logic will lead to a very limited weapon selection and some pretty boring play sessions, followed by burnout because "there's nothing left to do." Come to think of it, that's basically what's happening to a lot of people.

Well, I mean, yeah. That's why it's a problem.

Some players can enjoy weapons despite them being objectively worse than similarly-easy-to-obtain options. But the reality is that most players don't feel this way, which is why this whole thing needs to be addressed by the devs.

I mean, you might be having fun with these weapons already-- but imagine how many more people could be having fun with you if these weapons were each competitive in their own way. For stat-lovers like myself, it's so much easier to enjoy a shiny new weapon when we don't get that sick feeling in our stomachs of "I could have used something stronger" every time we use it.