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Secura Lecta is a complete cop-out


owendawgx
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1 hour ago, SortaRandom said:

Well, I mean, yeah. That's why it's a problem.

Some players can enjoy weapons despite them being objectively worse than similarly-easy-to-obtain options. But the reality is that most players don't feel this way, which is why this whole thing needs to be addressed by the devs.


I mean, you might be having fun with these weapons already-- but imagine how many more people could be having fun with you if these weapons were each competitive in their own way. For stat-lovers like myself, it's so much easier to enjoy a shiny new weapon when we don't get that sick feeling in our stomachs of "I could have used something stronger" every time we use it.

I understand what you mean completely. Honestly, this game got much better and more interesting when I finally got free of that, but it took a long time. I had to go back and rebuild a lot of weapons that I had thrown away because they weren't objectively better, but I discovered a lot of weapons I really enjoyed. Now I may have gone to far in the wrong direction, because one of my favorite weapons is the mk- 1 braton.  :) 

It would be great if certain weapons could be made competitive, but they won't all be. At the end of the day, it's up to the player to decide what is fun for them. Personally I think there's a lot more to designing good weapons than giving them high base damage. But here's one way to look at it: rather than trying to use the most effective weapon you can, try to make a fun weapon as effective as it can get. Find a fun weapon and ask: how far can I go with this? Can I go farther than I'm "supposed to?" At least, that's the main thing I do in this game.  :)

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1 hour ago, Lord_Azrael said:

I understand what you mean completely. Honestly, this game got much better and more interesting when I finally got free of that, but it took a long time. I had to go back and rebuild a lot of weapons that I had thrown away because they weren't objectively better, but I discovered a lot of weapons I really enjoyed. Now I may have gone to far in the wrong direction, because one of my favorite weapons is the mk- 1 braton.  :) 

It would be great if certain weapons could be made competitive, but they won't all be. At the end of the day, it's up to the player to decide what is fun for them. Personally I think there's a lot more to designing good weapons than giving them high base damage. But here's one way to look at it: rather than trying to use the most effective weapon you can, try to make a fun weapon as effective as it can get. Find a fun weapon and ask: how far can I go with this? Can I go farther than I'm "supposed to?" At least, that's the main thing I do in this game.  :)

I totally understand where you're coming from-- but realistically speaking, it's far easier to tweak a few damage numbers than it is to alter the mindsets of millions of players.

Obviously inter-weapon balance will never be perfect, but a little stat-tweaking can go a long way.

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10 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

I totally understand where you're coming from-- but realistically speaking, it's far easier to tweak a few damage numbers than it is to alter the mindsets of millions of players.

Obviously inter-weapon balance will never be perfect, but a little stat-tweaking can go a long way.

Totally agree. But I never miss an opportunity to preach the gospel of non-meta. :)

 

Anyway, while I saw the credit thing coming, I agree it's a bit underwhelming overall. Actually, how about a built-in weeping wounds based on credits collected while in melee only mode (instead of combo counter)? 

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On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 8:32 PM, owendawgx said:

Its passive is useless. The credits it gains are inconsistent and minuscule, as well as being completely worthless to practically anyone above mastery 8 in the first place. 

The issue isn't the weapon, or that it's bad. It's not. Never once did I say it was bad. I said it was a cop out. Please read the actual post before trying to be all high and mighty, I'm seeing tons of comments arguing against things that I never claimed. Try actually listening to what someone is saying instead of making up your own version of it. That's called a logical fallacy. 

It's straight up lazy. This is literally undeniable. Stop trying to act like you know what you're talking about by not actually addressing the issue that was brought up.. 

It is useless to YOU. I know plenty of people who are constantly farming credits. Even those MR 15 and up. MR means nothing people need to realize this. It isn't lazy to me, extra credits fits with the Perrin theme perfectly. It's not a bad weapon. I love it. Fyi you don't have to say its a bad weapon. This is heavily implied

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Eminem2420 said:

It is useless to YOU. I know plenty of people who are constantly farming credits. Even those MR 15 and up. MR means nothing people need to realize this. It isn't lazy to me, extra credits fits with the Perrin theme perfectly. It's not a bad weapon. I love it. Fyi you don't have to say its a bad weapon. This is heavily implied

 

 

It's passive IS useless. Have you ever taken a look at what amount of credits you get from enemies? Tested the weapon for 1 week and all I can say: using an Effigy Chroma gave me double the credits than Secura Lecta. There were times when I had to kill 27(!) mobs to get 1 credit drop, and all I got with the Lecta was 36 credits. 36. Thirty-six.
5 mins Dark Sector survival gives 20400 credits if you are alone + about 3-4K additional credits without Secura Lecta. I got extra 5-6K credits when I was using the Lecta, and 10-11K credits when I was using Effigy Chroma. So what do you think, is getting 2000 credits useful per 5 mins? Compared to 7000?

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3 minutes ago, ShadowFox14 said:

It's passive IS useless. Have you ever taken a look at what amount of credits you get from enemies? Tested the weapon for 1 week and all I can say: using an Effigy Chroma gave me double the credits than Secura Lecta. There were times when I had to kill 27(!) mobs to get 1 credit drop, and all I got with the Lecta was 36 credits. 36. Thirty-six.
5 mins Dark Sector survival gives 20400 credits if you are alone + about 3-4K additional credits without Secura Lecta. I got extra 5-6K credits when I was using the Lecta, and 10-11K credits when I was using Effigy Chroma. So what do you think, is getting 2000 credits useful per 5 mins? Compared to 7000?

Credits are credits.

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2 hours ago, ShadowFox14 said:

Now you have just reached the point where I qustion your intelligence, or your ability to read.

Then it's time to end this conversation, because questioning someone's intelligence or ability to read has no place in this - or any other - discussion. Some of us would prefer to not constantly have threads get locked. Please be respectful.

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1 minute ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Then it's time to end this conversation, because questioning someone's intelligence or ability to read has no place in this - or any other - discussion. Some of us would prefer to not constantly have threads get locked. Please be respectful.

Well then he should just read what I wrote, because he says "You are wrong, Option B is right" and what I literally just said was "Option B is right as well".
He told me not to insult his intelligence, then proceeded to throw everything I wrote into the trashcan and slap me in the face with ignorance as a reply.

But yes, you are right. It's just that I really hate it when people ignore what I say and just go against it without actually reading what I wrote.

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@ShadowFox14 I feel for you man, I have often dealt with these people who don't have more capability than to just read a few words and then respond, as they are EVERYWHERE on these forums (and, sadly, all over this world T_T). My advice: Better to just report them, stop talking to them, then continue on with the conversation with the people that CAN read.

As for the topic at hand, yes, the Secura Lecta's passive is incredibly underwhelming. The Lecta itself is good (no complaints there). But the passive(s) are so bad that they are downright non-existant. Most of the Syndicate melee passives could need some tweaks, but the Secura Lecta's passives just needs a complete overhaul. Something related to COMBAT.

My ideas (along with some changes to Rakta Dark Dagger, you'll see why):

Secura Lecta:
* Equip passive: Every 4 seconds or so, it zaps the nearest alerted enemy with lightning, for low/medium electric damage but with high (guaranteed?) statuschance. Max range is slightly shorter than the whip's normal reach. Range affected by (Primed) Reach.
* Always available (no need to equip it to use): Whenever you cause a status-proc, you gain some (over)shields.

Status and wealth are related. Shields are also part of the Sequence blast (unlike how the R.D.Dagger has overshields for no reason), plus their weaponry have the prefix "Secura", similar-sounding to Security, which can easily be related to shields. The equip-passive and always-passive synergize well, which is even better.

Rakta Dark Dagger changes (due to Secura Lecta dealing with shields now):
* Equip passive: Reduces visibility, as well as aggro (unless aggro abilities are used)
* Always available (no need to equip to use anymore): Whenever you KILL an enemy, you gain 5 ENERGY.

Equip-passive helps with stealth. Always-passive can help further with stealth (invisibility abilities) as well as help with open combat (damage abilities), in contrast to the current shields-thing only being useful in open combat (as Covert Lethality = Instakill = No shields gained = Bad passive both in theme and synergy).

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3 hours ago, Azamagon said:

 

@ShadowFox14 I feel for you man, I have often dealt with these people who don't have more capability than to just read a few words and then respond, as they are EVERYWHERE on these forums (and, sadly, all over this world T_T). My advice: Better to just report them, stop talking to them, then continue on with the conversation with the people that CAN read.

As for the topic at hand, yes, the Secura Lecta's passive is incredibly underwhelming. The Lecta itself is good (no complaints there). But the passive(s) are so bad that they are downright non-existant. Most of the Syndicate melee passives could need some tweaks, but the Secura Lecta's passives just needs a complete overhaul. Something related to COMBAT.

My ideas (along with some changes to Rakta Dark Dagger, you'll see why):

Secura Lecta:
* Equip passive: Every 4 seconds or so, it zaps the nearest alerted enemy with lightning, for low/medium electric damage but with high (guaranteed?) statuschance. Max range is slightly shorter than the whip's normal reach. Range affected by (Primed) Reach.
* Always available (no need to equip it to use): Whenever you cause a status-proc, you gain some (over)shields.

Status and wealth are related. Shields are also part of the Sequence blast (unlike how the R.D.Dagger has overshields for no reason), plus their weaponry have the prefix "Secura", similar-sounding to Security, which can easily be related to shields. The equip-passive and always-passive synergize well, which is even better.

Rakta Dark Dagger changes (due to Secura Lecta dealing with shields now):
* Equip passive: Reduces visibility, as well as aggro (unless aggro abilities are used)
* Always available (no need to equip to use anymore): Whenever you KILL an enemy, you gain 5 ENERGY.

Equip-passive helps with stealth. Always-passive can help further with stealth (invisibility abilities) as well as help with open combat (damage abilities), in contrast to the current shields-thing only being useful in open combat (as Covert Lethality = Instakill = No shields gained = Bad passive both in theme and synergy).

Thank you ^^

The overshield sounds great actually for the Lecta, pairs well with the weapon's style and Perrin's syndicate proc gives shields too. As for the electricity zapping, I'd rather have it as something that I can control, like the Magistar's healing ability, would be good to have it on a charge attack, except charge attacks are slow and Attack Speed doesn't effect it. Sooo yeah :\
I like the idea though.

Dark Dagger's overshield is kinda useless if you are running a Covert Lethality build, and let's be real here: you will most likely use that one. So to actually gain shields, you need to use a frame that can proc Radiation or a weapon with high status chance that can apply the Radiation, the switch to Dark Dagger really fast to get the shields, which makes it clunky to use. Completely agree.

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Just now, RealPandemonium said:

The credit passive is currently bugged and does nothing.  All of this discussion is pointless until it actually works as advertised and we have an actual baseline to compare.  

Wait, what? How do you know that? This is the first I've heard of it.

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Just now, RealPandemonium said:

The credit passive is currently bugged and does nothing.  All of this discussion is pointless until it actually works as advertised and we have an actual baseline to compare.  

Sadly, it does work. I first made a thread and stated that it's buggy and doesn't work, because when you pick up credits, you can pick up uneven amounts, like 365 credits or so. But after taking an actual look at it, when you have a credit booster, you pick up uneven credits as well, and it doubles it after picking them up, so when you press TAB (or P) you will see that it's doubled there.

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1 minute ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Wait, what? How do you know that? This is the first I've heard of it.

I tested for a while today and concluded that my Akkad runs killing only with SecLecta and my runs killing only with AKsomati were not significantly different.  Effigy boosted the credit drops significantly, and its bonus is supposed to be less than SecLecta's.  If it's having any effect, it's certainly not the one advertised.

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9 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

I tested for a while today and concluded that my Akkad runs killing only with SecLecta and my runs killing only with AKsomati were not significantly different.  Effigy boosted the credit drops significantly, and its bonus is supposed to be less than SecLecta's.  If it's having any effect, it's certainly not the one advertised.

Well the Lecta doubles the credits that mobs give, and Effigy gives 60% chance for enemies to drop credits. So basically, if you kill with the Lecta, you have about 1/20=5% (because usually every 20th mob dropscredits) chance of dropping credits, and that will be doubled. Using Effigy will always have 60% drop chance for credits thus making it a lot more useful. It's comparable to critical chance and critical damage.
Like you have 5% critical chance with 2X critical damage (Secura Lecta) VS 60% critical chance with 1.5X critical damage (Effigy)
This is the reason it doesn't make pretty much any difference to use the Lecta.

Edited by ShadowFox14
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11 minutes ago, ShadowFox14 said:

Well the Lecta doubles the credits that mobs give, and Effigy gives 60% chance for enemies to drop credits. So basically, if you kill with the Lecta, you have about 1/20=5% (because usually every 20th mob dropscredits) chance of dropping credits, and that will be doubled. Using Effigy will always have 60% drop chance for credits thus making it a lot more useful. It's comparable to critical chance and critical damage.
Like you have 5% critical chance with 2X critical damage (Secura Lecta) VS 60% critical chance with 1.5X critical damage (Effigy)
This is the reason it doesn't make pretty much any difference to use the Lecta.

Source on your numbers?

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34 minutes ago, ShadowFox14 said:

Well the Lecta doubles the credits that mobs give, and Effigy gives 60% chance for enemies to drop credits. So basically, if you kill with the Lecta, you have about 1/20=5% (because usually every 20th mob dropscredits) chance of dropping credits, and that will be doubled. Using Effigy will always have 60% drop chance for credits thus making it a lot more useful. It's comparable to critical chance and critical damage.
Like you have 5% critical chance with 2X critical damage (Secura Lecta) VS 60% critical chance with 1.5X critical damage (Effigy)
This is the reason it doesn't make pretty much any difference to use the Lecta.

So, you are saying that Effigy does not increase credit drops by 60% (60% chance to double credit drops), but instead has a 60% chance of forcing an extra credit drop that gives a doubled amount.

Because it makes credits from nothing, irrespective of the baseline credit drop rate, the baseline credit drop rate hardly matters when Effigy is involved (assuming it works the way you say it does.)

However, some cursory tests indicate that Secura Lecta doesn't boost anything vs a control.  It is definitely not doing what's advertised.  

Edited by RealPandemonium
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16 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

So, you are saying that Effigy does not increase credit drops by 60% (60% chance to double credit drops), but instead has a 60% chance of forcing an extra credit drop that gives a doubled amount.

Because it makes credits from nothing, irrespective of the baseline credit drop rate, the baseline credit drop rate hardly matters when Effigy is involved (assuming it works the way you say it does.)

However, some cursory tests indicate that Secura Lecta doesn't boost anything vs a control.  It is definitely not doing what's advertised.  

The way Effigy works: if you kill an enemy with Effigy, it has 60% chance of dropping credits.
I tested the normal credit drop chance, and sometimes it took me 30+ mobs to get credits from 1 mob, sometimes it were 3 mobs and I already got credits, the average os that was 1 credit drop out of 20 mobs, that's the reason of the 1/20 credit drop chance. On the other hand, Effigy gives 60% drop chance, so you will get credits from every 3rd-4th mob that it kills.

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Honestly I think instead of 2x credits, you got some sort of buff or mechanism UPON picking up credits. And the challenge would be to maintain this boosted state as long as possible while cutting down mobs.  I just dont think 2x creds really matters unless you're going to be in a mission for an extended period of time where you could easily pick up more credits from mobs than the base mission reward.

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I think if it just did a little more.

Just doubling the amount of credits is pretty weak AF.

But maybe if it increased the odds of credits dropping from targets killed by the weapon. Or both.

Or maybe if the weapon had some kind of thief effect, where it would "rob" an enemy every time it hits it. and cause credits to drop every hit.

This could be nice, since then the weapon would be modded a little different since it would force more speed and almost nothing to mod for damage, since you would want to hit the target as much as possible. Or maybe after every X amount of hits credit pots would drop.

Edited by DestinyEX
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