Da Fense: How Gating Pens Warframe Balance

[YagoXiten]

On 9/23/2016 at 2:15 AM, (XB1)InfernusXcanis said:

I'm not sure how, but i can see an implementation like this going pear shaped so fast. So many variables would need to be covered.....

It also allows for a very high level of control with regards to balancing variables.

On 9/23/2016 at 4:54 AM, ScribbleClash said:

I hope they don't ever do this. This would put Snipers in an even worse place as they already are and Soma in an even better place than it already is. A gating mechanic wouldn't make things better in my opinion, it just means that APS(attacks per second) weapons will outclass high damage weapons.

Simply put: I do not see how this would be any improvement over the current system.

It would do absolutely nothing to Snipers, assuming that you can do two of the following:

Have multishot
Score a headshot.
Land a critical hit.
Proc a damaging status effect.
Have the correct elemental combo.
 

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

"It also allows for a very high level of control with regards to balancing variables."

 

true, but depending on said variables, high ROF weapons would become more powerful than needed(of course....said high rof guns are kinda lack luster) while high power weapons(Tigris prime, vayhek, bows...) would lose a LOT of functionality.

that goes absolutely double for crit weapons that can red crit(dread, dex sybaris....) due to your proposed damage cap percentages that would prevent a certain amount of damage to be exceeded, those weapons would lose their usefulness.

in theory, your idea would turn our weapon loadouts around, everyone would migrate towards weaker weapons to avoid what can no longer one shot high priority targets.

no matter what calculations you've done, we're not dealing with a constant. It's a non-static variable that could result in said balance not even occurring.

im not disagreeing, just pointing out that it works in theory, just not in practice.

[ScribbleClash]

6 hours ago, YagoXiten said:

It also allows for a very high level of control with regards to balancing variables.

It would do absolutely nothing to Snipers, assuming that you can do two of the following:

1. Have multishot
2. Score a headshot.
3. Land a critical hit.
4. Proc a damaging status effect.
5. Have the correct elemental combo.

1. Snipers are there for raw damage, even at that they're not the best. Splitting down your damage would still most very likely exceed the cap by far though.
2. Have you been playing with a sniper yet? Enemy movement can be akward and taken the time to align for headshots is most often impractical.
3. You should always land critical hits.
4. Considering there are 4 status' that can do this, which are 3 need toxin, which by the way is better off to be put into corrosive to reduce the armor and one is slash which highly depends on your weapon to have it, this does not seem like a very good option.
5. Which still will be corrosive supreme with your idea?

In any case, your system would make it less intuitive and way more convolutet than the whole system needs to be. Damage mitigation through armor as it is right now is a straightforward system.

[YagoXiten]

5 hours ago, (XB1)InfernusXcanis said:

"It also allows for a very high level of control with regards to balancing variables."

 

true, but depending on said variables, high ROF weapons would become more powerful than needed(of course....said high rof guns are kinda lack luster) while high power weapons(Tigris prime, vayhek, bows...) would lose a LOT of functionality.

that goes absolutely double for crit weapons that can red crit(dread, dex sybaris....) due to your proposed damage cap percentages that would prevent a certain amount of damage to be exceeded, those weapons would lose their usefulness.

in theory, your idea would turn our weapon loadouts around, everyone would migrate towards weaker weapons to avoid what can no longer one shot high priority targets.

no matter what calculations you've done, we're not dealing with a constant. It's a non-static variable that could result in said balance not even occurring.

im not disagreeing, just pointing out that it works in theory, just not in practice.

The gating is a constant, however. So it likely would be able to work quite nicely.

It's not the best system out there, and I won't pretend it is. But is is capable of allowing fair endlessly scaling enemies, without intruding upon our current levels of power. And I think there's something to be said for that.

High RoF weapons would be powerful, but those sorts of weapons do tend to be somewhat lackluster in the AoE horde destroying weapon meta.

There are plenty of ways to bypass the gating, and it would not matter against the highest level of enemies. Offensively, anyways. It's a pretty strong upgrade defensively, for all Tenno! It does nerf our current 'god-frames' but, that nerf means consistency, and allows us to re-balance things appropriately.

3 hours ago, ScribbleClash said:

1. Snipers are there for raw damage, even at that they're not the best. Splitting down your damage would still most very likely exceed the cap by far though.
2. Have you been playing with a sniper yet? Enemy movement can be akward and taken the time to align for headshots is most often impractical.
3. You should always land critical hits.
4. Considering there are 4 status' that can do this, which are 3 need toxin, which by the way is better off to be put into corrosive to reduce the armor and one is slash which highly depends on your weapon to have it, this does not seem like a very good option.
5. Which still will be corrosive supreme with your idea?

In any case, your system would make it less intuitive and way more convolutet than the whole system needs to be. Damage mitigation through armor as it is right now is a straightforward system.

Even exceeding the cap, you'd still be able to one-shot an enemy with multi-shot and the correct elemental combo.

Yes, actually. I typically run the Mutalist Cernos on Sayrn, and the Lanka on Volt. Nekros tends to run with either of those two, or the Synoid Simulor for simplicity's sake when farming.

Yes, exactly! A critical multiplier of 4.4x would be more than capable of one-shotting a Bombard with 500 armor with this system.

Status chance needs some reworks. But it does factor into this.

Corrosive would not be idea. You'd actually be able to run a number of things and still be relevant. Electric has a .5x multiplier, but with a multiplier of 4.4x, you'd be able to two shot any Bombard you can currently with the /appropriate/ elemental combo. So you'd have a bit more freedom, if that makes sense?

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

23 hours ago, YagoXiten said:

It also allows for a very high level of control with regards to balancing variables.

It would do absolutely nothing to Snipers, assuming that you can do two of the following:

Have multishot
Score a headshot.
Land a critical hit.
Proc a damaging status effect.
Have the correct elemental combo.
 

Fair enough, there would be major tweaking needed, but i can see it working if it didn't make the current power weapons(tigris, dread, dex sybaris) managed to keep their lethality