Vacuum: Discussions Post Devstream #80

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

7 hours ago, VonDodo said:

IF its split into 3 mods... then you have 3 new mandatory mods, while making other sentinels OP (do you expect people to choose between invisibility + vacumm X3 or ammo mutation + vacuum X3?)

You made 2 issues out of 1.

 

If you aplly them to pets you then have 1 oversued sentinel and 1 overused kavat (smeetha).

 

In order to make vacuum viable while granting diversity without destroying carrier de needs to:

1) make vacuum universal but not as powerful as carrier's vacuum

2) rebalance all sentinel/pets skills

3) make carrier keep its old functionality better than Others of at least a 30-50%

 

 

 

But mostly i wouldn t even lose time over changing a system that doesn t require much attention like MANY other issues (endgame).

I completely agree on the endgame aspect. I almost feel like the timing of this vaccuum conversation derailed that conversation in the community, which is sad. At least DE is listening to the community about one of these subjects. Unfortunately I believe the endgame topic will the more important topic of the two in the long run.

[Madway7]

On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 2:24 PM, TheGuyverOne said:

As for pets, why can't we make a clan research item that attaches to their collars with a built in vacuum?

Not sure if this has been pointed out already (sorry if it has), but kavats don't have collars.

[TheGuyver]

39 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

Not sure if this has been pointed out already (sorry if it has), but kavats don't have collars.

It was pointed more towards kubrows, since they're still nothing but hot garbage since kavats came out with a better ai and more useful skills. 

[LemongrabEarl]

 

TL;DR: proposed change to Vaccum sounds bad, if this is how it's going, just remove the power and grant Tenno a localized loot singularity.

 

[ranks21]

split into 3 is making a bad decision worse. give all sentinels a small radius of vacuum but give carrier its innate range with its precept mod.

or leave all sentinels as is and let the masses go on without any change as they have been doing for years already.

should you continue with this nonsense then what will be next?  invis, laser, range, scans or all on one sentinel which you will cower in a corner and imply because a few just loves to whine about silly stuff like this.

my vote is to leave all the diversity and uniqueness of each and every companions as they are>> you've already completed them and they work very good at what they do.  if players don't like one or two or even thinks all should have what one has do not bend to them  you already gave them choices.

[devlkore]

3 hours ago, ranks21 said:

split into 3 is making a bad decision worse. give all sentinels a small radius of vacuum but give carrier its innate range with its precept mod.

or leave all sentinels as is and let the masses go on without any change as they have been doing for years already.

should you continue with this nonsense then what will be next?  invis, laser, range, scans or all on one sentinel which you will cower in a corner and imply because a few just loves to whine about silly stuff like this.

my vote is to leave all the diversity and uniqueness of each and every companions as they are>> you've already completed them and they work very good at what they do.  if players don't like one or two or even thinks all should have what one has do not bend to them  you already gave them choices.

This is a strawman argument. No one has requested scans, invisibility, etc. to be put on all companions. Many people have however requested vacuum be innate. 

You say the companions are "completed" and are "very good at what they do", but many people (myself included) would strongly disagree and believe many, if not all companions need some tweaking or outright reworks. Just as a single example, are you suggesting Shade's invisibility works properly? 

Your final point that people have been given choices, while true, fails to recognise that not all choices are created equal. Perfect balance is pretty much impossible, but when you have up to 89% Carrier proliferation, it should be obvious that there is a massive imbalance. Vacuum is a feature that improves how the game feels as a whole. Having it freely available to all would allow the diversity of companions to actually display itself in game and give people back the "choices" you claim they have in a more equal way. 

[Surrogate_x]

so many posts and not one response from de....hmm 

seems to me that we have some communication problems

[Mellaus]

I don't see why there's even a discussion, it's not like there was any sensical argument against a basic default 5 meters wide vacuum attached to every frame.

Unless the game is supposed to be, crawl on the floor to make sure you don't miss every loot drop, spend more time focusing on picking up loot than watching the actual ennemies.

FIrst game i ever play where it's even a question, it's like, what ? What debate ?

[Duduminador]

I don't normaly take this approach but... I'll simply apply to whatever decision DE takes without complain.

Not because I want to suck up to them. But because I'm very disturbed by the majority of the suggestions.

People REALLY want universal Vacuum on the frames. I'll never support this mentality that shooting, hack and slashing without drawbacks, strategy nor any form of penalty is a good thing. THis is the very same reason why everybody has a Synoid Simulor now and why I'm playing a co-op game on solo for the time being...

Edited September 23, 2016 by Duduminador

[devlkore]

36 minutes ago, Duduminador said:

I don't normaly take this approach but... I'll simply apply to whatever decision DE takes without complain.

Not because I want to suck up to them. But because I'm very disturbed by the majority of the suggestions.

People REALLY want universal Vacuum on the frames. I'll never support this mentality that shooting, hack and slashing without drawbacks, strategy nor any form of penalty is a good thing. THis is the very same reason why everybody has a Synoid Simulor now and why I'm playing a co-op game on solo for the time being...

Let's just drop this idea that people want vacuum because they don't want any strategy, are lazy, blah, strawman, etc. 

Why should everything have a penalty? Seriously, actually think about that. Stamina was removed for a reason. Should bullet jumps cost shield and blocking cost energy? I mean, why do we have those things without drawbacks? It just makes people lazy. /s

FYI, I'm very much pro universal vacuum and have never even used a Simulor and find the Tonkor boring. 

[TenGaugeBoson]

Make Carrier a cosmetic attachment

Just my two cents.

I would think you could just shrink him down and add him as a key chain like thing...but I am a cook not a game designer....so...

He would retain his value on the market.

He would loose his combat abilities of coarse.

He could be added to weapons or sentinels.

Then we don't have issues with cats and dogs running around gathering unjustified loot.

You all know you wish this was your Idea. cmon...you know I 'm right.

 

[Koldraxon-732]

I recall speaking of a concept I put in spoilers earlier in this thread.

I will explain it again, as people clearly can't be bothered to bear witness to ideas:

Vaccum will remain a precept for the Sentinel, but cannot use the ammo mutator while it's equipped.

There will be a version of Vaccum for every single loot type (ammo, health, etc...) that can be transmuted into combined versions that cost more mod space to equip, up to 3 different loot types per mod.

One for gathering (resources, ammo), another for surviving (energy, health, ammo), and so on until the mixtures run out. You can equip vaccums that share the same loot types, and it would have a chance to amplify what is collected, but you cannot use vaccums that have > 1 shared loot types.

There will be a modular device that can be equipped either as a mod, or like an Exilus adapter (and, unlike the others, can be used on virtually everything, and can be taken off at will) which would have enough room to mount the '3 new Vaccums'. Things the device can use vary:

On Warframes, it can mount more non-essential mods and some Sentinel mods.

On weapons, same thing.

Can be used on pets.

This would eliminate our issues, but the device would probably be barred by Clantech or Raptor, and only one of these can be mounted on your loadout at any time.

This thing cannot be used in Conclave.

 

In short:

-A vaccum for everything, can merge into a 3-in-1 version with numerous variations.

-A device to mount these variations on and increase the mod space (by 4 for everything; cannot equip on melees or Sentinel guns) and add up to 12 extra mod capacity (unaffected by Catalysts, Reactors, Forma); can be swapped around gear; only one can be equipped on your loadout. This would be able to use some Sentinel mods, like the Vaccums.

[Tizodd]

3 hours ago, Duduminador said:

...People REALLY want universal Vacuum on the frames. I'll never support this mentality that shooting, hack and slashing without drawbacks, strategy nor any form of penalty is a good thing. THis is the very same reason why everybody has a Synoid Simulor now and why I'm playing a co-op game on solo for the time being...

Are you seriously comparing looting to a high damage aoe weapon with no self damage, a 1000 aoe proc that restores energy, and a stagger cc?

I can understand how someone with a Synoid Simulor can ruin your fun of they're in your group and demolishing everything...but how does their ability to loot, negatively affect your gameplay?

By your logic, if a person joins your group with Carrier, you ragequit because they have Vacuum.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Tizodd

[(PSN)Warframe_Elite_1]

i do not see why there are more debate about vacuum    DE  you know what we want delete vacuum from carrier and give it to all warframe(passive) because
split it into 3 is making a bad decision worse

[Ryme]

I agree that Vacuum shouldn't even be a mod, but a passive for everyone instead. DE has stated several times that they want to eliminate or incorporate "essential" mods, like Serration, that everyone pretty much HAS to use anyways. Splitting Vacuum into 3 mods would be the polar opposite of that sentiment.

[IRVoidGuru]

17 hours ago, ranks21 said:

split into 3 is making a bad decision worse. give all sentinels a small radius of vacuum but give carrier its innate range with its precept mod.

or leave all sentinels as is and let the masses go on without any change as they have been doing for years already.

should you continue with this nonsense then what will be next?  invis, laser, range, scans or all on one sentinel which you will cower in a corner and imply because a few just loves to whine about silly stuff like this.

my vote is to leave all the diversity and uniqueness of each and every companions as they are>> you've already completed them and they work very good at what they do.  if players don't like one or two or even thinks all should have what one has do not bend to them  you already gave them choices.

i think you are missing the point. players are only using carrier , its only being used for 1 mod. and players want to use other companions but are stuck reverting to carrier for 1 mod.

its a problem and DE knows it. i dont see how you can feel this way knowing the percentage of players that have primarily used carrier. go down your friends list check their profiles and tell me the % of them that have carrier as most used. ill bet plat its more then 70 %

[IRVoidGuru]

i think Vacuum should be Warframe Passive effect. not a mod at all but an innate ability, keeping the same range and adding an Option in the Options menu to pick and choose the items that YOU Personally want to have Sucked up. make Each drop type an option under a section called "Vacuum". list possible drops and give a "yes/no" option next to it

Edited September 23, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[Angevil]

as a lot of people already say, it's better the vacuum should be a warframe passive effect (or maybe like the Mag passive, that work with the bulletjump, and of course change the mag passive with another one)! warframe now it's in a very high level, with a really massive objects on the ground and pick up without that it's a really hell!

At the same time we can talk about the fact if we are obbligated to equip 3 mods, well, it's really really bad! it's already hard at the moment do a efficient build with ALL the mods we have now (hundreds and hundreds or almost near 1 thousand (?)) and with the limited slots, if we start to be bounded by a certain type of mods, we see always the same build and almost impossibile to test new ones. for exemple,

i'm also scared with revolution of damage 3.0.

ps, sorry for my bad english

Edited September 23, 2016 by Angevil

[Very_Melon]

I am once again impressed with DE's ability to come up with the most convoluted and impractical "improvements" to things that have had much simpler and logical solutions proposed since the dawn of time.

I'd rather keep using the current Carrirer forever, thanks.

[(PSN)BlackGuyver82]

On 9/19/2016 at 1:29 PM, (PS4)tpesconi said:

Please, think out of the box and like was already said (by Quiette Shy mainly), consider giving this function as a additional passive to ALL Warframes, so we can use any companion or even no companion and still have all the fun.

Limiting this function to sentinels doesn't help new players and doesn't help any other companion.

Best idea by far?

[(PSN)xDeltaRomeo]

   I think it should be left alone. I feel that i have to run excal and dragon nakana nonstop cuz that is where my focus lenz are. I can spend all day every day farming focus or run for fun. You can use other companion take zig zag patern pick it up. In stead of runnig through as fast as possible   

[IRVoidGuru]

2 hours ago, Very_Melon said:

I am once again impressed with DE's ability to come up with the most convoluted and impractical "improvements" to things that have had much simpler and logical solutions proposed since the dawn of time.

I'd rather keep using the current Carrirer forever, thanks.

im sorry you feel this way but im afraid i disagree with the idea of keeping carrier as is. doing so has Ruined my fun time and time again. i try to use another companion and like it but then have to revert Back to carrier for its Vacuum. games like Devil May Cry use a base localized loot vacuum and it never hurt its game play at all. in fact it made the game more fun, running around collecting things from the ground like your playing apartment clean-up simulator 2016 is not fun. with my idea posted above we would have the choice as a player to weather or not we want to use Vacuum and farther more it gives you the option in witch to pick and choose what drop types you care about and want sucked up yo you. 

You want to use Carrier forever, but is that good enough to force all of us to have to Use 1 sentinal always just for 1 mod? my answer to you sir is absolutly not. carrier is the most used companion in the game breaching over 70 percent of total time used in comparison to other sentinals. well over half the server uses carrier exclusivly. do you seem to think this over usage has anything to do with carrier being good? i personally think it has EVERYTHING to do with the one mod called Vacuum.

its time for Carrier to become a Carrier, not a Glorifyed Loot Vacuum.

Edited September 24, 2016 by (PS4)IrSchm33

[Flowen231]

I'm all for vacuum as an all warframe passive. By that I mean the same exact effect in terms of range, wallpulling, and consistency. And I'll be straight up, it's because I'm lazy. I find it to be a hassle to move towards items in a game where I'm constantly under fire, where I constantly have an objective, where enemies are dying left and right in the thousands sometimes. I mean, it doesn't really take much effort to do, but it's still inconvenient and not really fun at all (especially when a team is pretty spread out and hundreds of enemies are dying in under a minute).

Also, this may be a little cynical of me, but I also ask that DE doesn't make drop rates any worse or start introducing items left and right that you have to interact with to pick up.

[NinjaKitsune56]

On 9/19/2016 at 3:40 PM, radastir said:

Dear Devs, just make Vacuum an innate ability of all the frames.

Perhaps rework the resource balance in the Game if you have to (nobody needs thousands of Fieldron Samples for example).

They should let us sell all those damnable samples, ampules and other crap... I'm not joking when I say I have 10,000 or more of each of these... What the frag am I gonna do with 'em? Make a thousand Fieldrons?! For what? A new turbocharger for my Xiphos-deployed Sentry guns? A few thousand Mutagen Masses to increase the radius of my Mantis' Medical support? Several thousand Detonite Injectors to make my Scimitar's airstrikes stronger?

Even if those fragmented chunks of Clan-tech are a credit each when sold, most of the playerbase would be happy just getting rid of them, myself included.

[(PSN)nec914]

I say leave carrier as is or make its vacuum range bigger, and make another slot next to exilus mod slot for warframes which is for loot related and add detection mods on warframe that work like aura mods where every one in squad is affected by each persons mod and they stack but the cost mod capacity and make a mini vacuum mod for warframes for the slot that both stack and those mods stack with current companion mods like carrier vacuum range is X the mini vacuum mod is 3m so now carrier vacuum is X + (3m * each person in squad)  and loot/add detection mods and locker unlocking mods would stack same way but the % of the chance for opening locked lockes would have tobe reduced for warframe mods since they stack with others in the squad so make it like 5% chance with scavenge being 90% you need 2 squad members to have it for a kubrow to have 100% unlocking chance and if without a kubrow trying to open it it will flash green once if the warframe can actually open it without applying the kubrows chance (which is applied if the kubrow tries to open the locker but negated if a warframe tries first, as in if kubrow tries first its chance is scavenge + each squad member with the warframe mod if it fails a warframe cant try, if a warframe tries is chance is the total of each squad member with the mod and if it fails its indefinitely locked) 

My suggestion would only affect warframe loot mods and enemy detection mods and having them stack with current companion mods of the like scavenge, vacuum, animal instinct ect 

So again for mini vacuum having a max range of +3m for each member makes with everyone in the squad having the mod makes a 12m vacuum effect without a carrier and with a carrier would be Carrier vacuum range + 12 more m 

Also a change to helios to go with these changes is targets it scans are detected on map at X range 

Edited September 25, 2016 by (PS4)nec914