Excalibur is overnerfed. Badly.

[Epsik-kun]

Over the course of several latest updates, Excalibur had received a large amount of direct and indirect nerfs:

1) Spin Blind energy cost;
2) Wave damage fall off;
3) Parasitic auras affecting toggles;
4) Removal of rewards from Endless Void, removal of Draco;
5) Introduction of Shadow Debt mods.
6) Duration and Efficiency changes.

Currently, there's no objective reason to use Excalibur - on the vast majority of the game's content he can be heavily outperformed by a properly modded Shadow Debt melee in hands of a non-melee oriented frame. In endless Void he is only "on pair" with Shadow Debt melee at best.

So, his only "forte" (which is "being average") is overextended Survivals, for which he requires:
1) To gimp the frame's build;
because otherwise you will not perform on a level of Shadow Debt melee
2) To constantly waste energy restores;
because changes to Spin Blind made EBlade non-sustainable in any prolonged Survival
3) To use Naramon.
because the frame has no means of protecting himself against enemies in an overstayed Survival

It also should be noted, that full Power Strength build for Excalibur was deliberately killed by DE not once, but twice. First time it was killed was when DE introduced duration/efficiency relation for toggles, which made Blind Rage/Transient/Fleeting build impossible to sustain. Second time it was when DE introduced energy cost on Spin Blind, which made Blind Rage/Narrow Minded/Transient build meaningless in a prolonged Survival.
So even when Excalibur gimps his build to achieve about the same level of performance a frame can get while equipping a Shadow Debt weapon - he can't do that efficiently.

And to top all that, there is no point in doing prolonged Survivals anymore, which rises the initial problem:

There is no objective reason to use Excalibur currently.

 

Answers to default arguments:

Spoiler

 

1) "Wave damage fall off makes him a swordsman"

No, it doesn't. The situation when you could've used only waves prior to the change and now you can't doesn't exist. Transition from waves to direct melee have stayed exactly the same. Meanwhile, Spin Blind nerf highly punishes going direct melee.

2) "Spin Blind is bad"

Spin Blind is a vital tool in Excalibur's arsenal, especially when he's dealing with high level enemies. Against high levels finishers are bad, and the actual Radial Blind rarely pays off due to both level design and enemy spawn tendency. Not to mention constant Radial Blinding isn't sustainable and not really possible, as Radial Blind has a cooldown.
Even now, when it costs energy, you have to use it to be effective. Previously it was one of Excalibur's saving graces, that allowed him to be actually better than a modded melee weapon.
Not knowing the strength of Spin Blind means you don't really know how to play Excalibur.

3) "You are only talking about Survivals"

Yes, because only Survivals is a mission where Excalibur can perform better than literally any other frame (including himself) that grabbed a Shadow Debt modded melee. It is his forte, and it was so since Exalted Blade was introduced.

4) "What you call Excalibur nerfs aren't actual Excalibur's nerfs"

That's what the word "indirect" is there for.

5) "These changes affected other frames too"

Yes they did, but I am not talking about other frames here. The fact is, these global changes dragged Excalibur down to and below the average level in melee, which is something he's supposed to excel at.

6) "It works for me"

Glad it does. But I am talking about objective things here, not subjective ones.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by Epsik-kun

[ashrah]

for me excalibur is blast man all u need is radial blind with good range

[NativeKiller]

+1

 

Spin Blind energy cost and the death of endless void survival runs were the last straws.

 

I simply do not see much reason to use my beloved Pendragon Helm'd and 5 forma'd Excalibur any longer.

 

Rest in peace, excalibro, you will always be a bro to me...

Edited September 21, 2016 by NativeKiller

[IamRageypoo]

7 minutes ago, ashrah said:

for me excalibur is blast man all u need is radial blind with good range

Why is it when a person lays out the reasons they feel the way they do, someone (usually the first comment) comes along and ignores all the points and just says the exact opposite without offering anything to the conversation? 

 

*Exact same scenario* 

OP: "Cheese has been contributing to the slow death of humans for years, here are some extensive studies that show exactly how it is doing it and why"

Next post: I LIKE CHEEEESE! 

Edited September 21, 2016 by IamRageypoo

[Vohim]

meh he's still pretty darn good 

[Vohim]

the only reason i aint got excalibur is because  i got tired of his default look and cant afford a skin but he's still pretty solid when used right 

 

ima farm him now and then rush him tomorrow when i wake up 

Edited September 21, 2016 by Retepzednem

[Babellon]

Prolonged missions have nothing to do with a frame.  You've tied like 5 different things together under this title that don't actually have anything to do with anything. 

Excalibur isn't broken. The game is indeed having a bit of growing pains at the moment in that it's growing and trivial complaints are being a real pain.  

Yes, the game is different now they've altered some systems and many of us hope that they will revisit this soon. We also hope they will apply some of their educated imaginative know how to building it better than before rather than surrendering to the relentless badgering of some people. 

They are the developers and I'd like to see their ideas not the chaotic mess we players have begged them to do. 

Suffice to say I think most of your thread is misrepresenting both the larger problems currently in game and/or the frame you are referencing. 

Edited September 21, 2016 by Babellon

[IamRageypoo]

1 minute ago, Retepzednem said:

the only reason i aint got excalibur is because  i got tired of his default look and cant afford a skin but he's still pretty solid when used right 

 

2 minutes ago, Retepzednem said:

meh he's still pretty darn good 

 

Doesn't have excalibur, says he's pretty darn good. -_-

[DiabolusUrsus]

1. I will grant you that the spin blind is kind of pointless and annoying because its range is so short and it precludes the use of otherwise-handy slide attacks.

2. Stop looking at "balance" through the lens of endless mission types. Endless missions are balanced through one set of rotation C, and after that any attempt at balance flies out the window. They're not supposed to be balanced, and you're not supposed to "win." You aren't entitled to tools for surviving 60+ minutes in survival.

3. If you must have an insanely effective Warframe that blows the given task out of the water to feel like it is a "worthwhile" choice, why are you expecting an all-rounder of any sort to fit that bill? Outstanding performance is typically reserved for more specialized (and thus more niche) characters.

[Dawn11715]

I personally believe that most excal changes had been somewhat reasonable, only thing I dislike is the energy cost on spin attacks.

Aside from that he is still a very powerfull frame that can deal great amounts of damage and is almost unkillable with lifestrike.

[Duduminador]

Out of the 6 nerfs you listed, 2 concern every frame with a toggle ability, 2 concern Every frame in game. And1 fixes the fact that Excalibur is supposed to be a Swordsman, not a turret.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Duduminador

[Vohim]

2 minutes ago, IamRageypoo said:

 

 

Doesn't have excalibur, says he's pretty darn good. -_-

 does not mean i havent had excalibur , i spent a solid 88 hours as excalibur   but needed to delete for space for other frames

[ashrah]

5 minutes ago, IamRageypoo said:

Why is it when a person lays out the reasons they feel the way they do, someone (usually the first comment) comes along and ignores all the points and just says the exact opposite without offering anything to the conversation? 

 

*Exact same scenario* 

OP: "Cheese has been contributing to the slow death of humans for years, here are some extensive studies that show exactly how it is doing it and why"

Next post: I LIKE CHEEEESE! 

i alwayes focuseing on best frame skills... cc scales no matter of lvl 1-300lvl....4th is just there if really need but not to spam it

[IamRageypoo]

Just now, Retepzednem said:

 does not mean i havent had excalibur , i spent a solid 88 hours as excalibur   but needed to delete for space for other frames

Except that the OP was talking about excalibur with the current changes, not excalibur pre changes...unless you have him right now, you don't have an understanding of what is going on...

[DiabolusUrsus]

2 minutes ago, Duduminador said:

Out of the 6 nerfs you listed, 2 concern every frame with a toggle ability, 2 concern Every frame in game. And1 fixes the fact that Excalibur is supposed to be a Swordsman, not a turret.

To be fair, if they really want to fix the turret effect they should tie the blade waves to channeling and make THOSE cost extra, not the piddly slide blind.

[Duduminador]

Just now, DiabolusUrsus said:

To be fair, if they really want to fix the turret effect they should tie the blade waves to channeling and make THOSE cost extra, not the piddly slide blind.

Agreed.

[SenorClipClop]

16 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Wave damage fall off

Now Excalibur is a swordfighter, not a Fluctus.

[DiabolusUrsus]

Just now, IamRageypoo said:

Except that the OP was talking about excalibur with the current changes, not excalibur pre changes...unless you have him right now, you don't have an understanding of what is going on...

It's not like most of these changes happened yesterday. You have no frame of reference for how recently they discarded Excal, so there's no indication that they a) haven't tried out his current condition, and b) don't have a general understanding of the implications just from having experienced the frame and read the patch notes.

[Vohim]

5 minutes ago, IamRageypoo said:

Except that the OP was talking about excalibur with the current changes, not excalibur pre changes...unless you have him right now, you don't have an understanding of what is going on...

except its been months since his rework and   sure as hell well over 80 hours  ,  but unlike you i dont just accuse blindly ,hence why i will get excalibur again and test him in t4 voids  and then come with my conclusion

Edited September 21, 2016 by Retepzednem

[DrBorris]

Eh, only thing that bugs me is the energy use for slide attacks. It just ruins he pace of combat for me, when going melee only spin attacks are a vital part of movement and not being able to use them because it will massively consume your energy makes it awkward.

 

The damage falloff nerf was all he needed, removing the energy penalty would put him in a pretty perfect state IMO. (unless you were willing for a more major rework of EB like having blades be a channeling effect).

Edited September 21, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed rude quoted comment

[IamRageypoo]

10 hours ago, Retepzednem said:

meh he's still pretty darn good 

Dang, that sure was a valid point, you got me. 

[Vohim]

9 hours ago, IamRageypoo said:

Dang, that sure was a valid point, you got me. 

vague but valid

[IamRageypoo]

Just now, Retepzednem said:

vague but valid

What was valid? Please elaborate, because the whole idea of making a point is to express an idea with some form of reasoning, what you did was make a statement of opinion. 

If I'm wrong feel free to explain. 

[taiiat]

wow most of your 'important bullet points' are grasping at straws so much hard that i think you're going to impale yourself with them.

 

17 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Now Excalibur is a swordfighter, not a Fluctus.

it only kind've helped, to be honest. a quick bandaid.
 

17 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

tie the blade waves to channeling and make THOSE cost extra, not the piddly slide blind.

perhaps. especially if sometime in the future the Energy economy is balanced again, because then it could be an awesome 'finisher' Tool for dealing with masses or hardened targets, but only used sparingly.

Edited September 21, 2016 by taiiat

[Vohim]

His blind still  is a massive effective aoe stun 

his 1 built properly will allow you to dash from enemy to enemy and clear whole rooms   in style and scales off of  combo counter so if yoou got body count an build a high combo  it will hit like a train 

and he has his aoe  javelins of death  

if anything is lacking a bit it'd be the exalted blade having 15% crit chance and 10% status  and the slide attack having extra energy cost

Edited September 21, 2016 by Retepzednem