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Excalibur is overnerfed. Badly.


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6 minutes ago, DestinyEX said:

Exalted Blade should affect your MELEE COMBO MULTIPLIER

It does. It's just the wave's damage is calculated prior to the sword's, so if you can oneshot enemy with a wave, you won't get a hit for the combo.

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I made a similar thread concerning all three exalted melee frames a while ago. You are 100% correct, and I have completely shelved my Excal as a result of this. Any frame can easily out damage him with a properly modded melee, a few of them have comparable effective ranges AND out damage him, and he's in the best spot of the three atm.

2 separate Excals, 4 forma (RJ) one with 6 (EB), currently collecting dust. Even sold my Pendragon as there is just no point anymore. At least you can still dust him off for fun, my 2 Valkyrs, 7 and 5, one (Hysteria) are permanently benched because of how bad they butchered that. Pretty much crushed my hype for Umbra and Valk Prime with these changes lol

Edited by Racter0325
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This thread is a living evidence of the declining quality of the forums. Not only did the OP gave an overimportance on minimal things, taking them out of context in order for them to appear important, a suitable answer did not appear for waaaayyy too long. This is most unusual, and definitely not a good change.

Yes, Excalibur was nerfed many times, but he was also awfully overpowered.

Any nerf not directly to the frame, but that affects every frame, cannot be used as an argument to defend his poor state-- only in the case that he got particularly affected by this said general "Nerf"; a thing that he was not in any of the presented cases. Duration affecting drain, for example: Exalted Blade's drain is one of the lowest ones, and therefore he was one of the least affected.

A general buff to many things but him isn't a "Nerf" to him, just powercreep. They are different things. And, again, you failed to mention he's still top tier damage.

He already and still makes this game a cake walk. Damage fall off on wave was both on demand and necessary, and it still might not even be enough. Honestly, I'd rather follow DiabolusUrsus idea, and have Waves only shoot during channeling-- though with the fall off removed, off course, and maybe having Shadow Debt mods affect the blade.

 

 

Edited by [DE]Taylor
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12 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

This thread is a living evidence of the declining quality of the forums. Not only did the OP gave an overimportance on minimal things, taking them out of context in order for them to appear important, a suitable answer did not appear for waaaayyy too long. This is most unusual, and definitely not a good change.

Yes, Excalibur was nerfed many times, but he was also awfully overpowered.

Any nerf not directly to the frame, but that affects every frame, cannot be used as an argument to defend his poor state-- only in the case that he got particularly affected by this said general "Nerf"; a thing that he was not in any of the presented cases. Duration affecting drain, for example: Exalted Blade's drain is one of the lowest ones, and therefore he was one of the least affected.

A general buff to many things but him isn't a "Nerf" to him, just powercreep. They are different things. And, again, you failed to mention he's still top tier damage.

He already and still makes this game a cake walk. Damage fall off on wave was both on demand and necessary, and it still might not even be enough. Honestly, I'd rather follow DiabolusUrsus idea, and have Waves only shoot during channeling-- though with the fall off removed, off course, and maybe having Shadow Debt mods affect the blade.

 

 

Well, im usually against nerfs to anything, but i like your direction of mind. When Excal was reworked, it was cool, so waves, such wow. But he becames turret, not swordsman. Im even can think of totally disbanding waves on hist ult, or as some players suggested, make em channel part of ability, even with increased cost. Also, i really HATE that price on slide blind, because even with coptering gone, im using slide attacks to travel through battlefield, because little more stability, slide damage increased on all mellee, its harder to enemies to hit you. So, im used slide attack on Excal ult to travel, not to emit blind (he has ability to do it, and i have one more button on keyboard to do it).

Excal always was not swordsman. In old times he was best of Warframes (some people not understanded his blind through walls with incredible range and duration) and was one of the best CC frames, with dash and jump (yeah, still missing that skill) as decent mobility tools (there was no things as bulletjump, or aerial attacks (Tipedo travel), as little notice to players, who start to play after 12 or 13 patch). After he becames turret. Now he becomes blinder with added damage from waves (again, nerf to oldtime blind, when  blind was central ability + nerf to recently new waves, where they was central ability became to adapting hes playstyle to use that 2 abilities as combo), and also spin-off build around damn radiant blades (never understanded that ability from start (Excal is my starter) to now, how it fit hes swordsmanship theme), so actually he was never melee centered, Running flashbang, waveturret, flashbanging waveturret and sword, khm... thrower/summoner/dontknowhottocallit. So, maybe it time for Excal to became a actually swordsmanship frame? Will like to see it. I need incentive to take him to mission, other than CL dagger assistant (Inaros, Ivara, Equinox is better at it), or to use his ult (actually it has AWESOME combo moves, but hard to notice with waves and that unwanted slideblind thing).

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3 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

A general buff to many things but him isn't a "Nerf" to him, just powercreep. They are different things. And, again, you failed to mention he's still top tier damage.

Allow me to explain that to you on a simple hypothetical example.

Let's assume an equippable version of Exalted Blade is introduced to the game. An item that anyone can wield, no specific rules or restrictions, same stats, has waves. Works with Shadow Debt mods, because it isn't an ability, but a weapon.

Now, when we have this theoretical weapon in the game, name me one objective reason to pick Excalibur over other frames.

If it doesn't rings any bells for you, I can't help it, but the problem is, this "theoretical weapon" is already in the game. It isn't as obvious as the example I've just provided, but it's a fact - unless we are talking about overstayed Survivals here - Excalibur is physically incapable of outperforming Orthos Prime or Atterax in hands of every single frame in the game, even if the frame is unranked.
Excalibur is far from being "top tier damage", because all the ways for him to be a "top dps" were removed.
He had the ability to be a "top tier damage" on Draco and Void Defence - these missions essentially do not exist anymore.
He had the ability to be a "top tier damage" in terms of sustained damage over duration in a Survival - but not anymore, as his damage had become unsustainable.
And he had stopped being a "top tier damage" in regular game content as soon as Shadow Debt mods were introduced.

And really, there's difference between "reading" and "staring in the general direction of the text", because you, my frend, have done the latter. "Overnerfed" is a simple concept that's easy for anyone to understand. The problem I'm addressing in the OP is

8 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Currently, there's no objective reason to use Excalibur

Which is written there twice.

It isn't about Excal's personal nerfs. It's about his current pitiful state in the game, when he's getting outperformed not by frames, but by weapons.

 

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8 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Over the course of several latest updates, Excalibur had received a large amount of direct and indirect nerfs:

1) Spin Blind energy cost;
2) Wave damage fall off;
3) Parasitic auras affecting toggles;
4) Removal of rewards from Endless Void, removal of Draco;
5) Introduction of Shadow Debt mods.
6) Duration and Efficiency changes.

Currently, there's no objective reason to use Excalibur - on the vast majority of the game's content he can be heavily outperformed by a properly modded Shadow Debt melee in hands of a non-melee oriented frame. In endless Void he is only "on pair" with Shadow Debt melee at best.

1) That's fine, otherwise Radial Blind would be made pointless once you get Exalted Blade

2)That's fine, he's a melee frame

3)That's fine too

4)That's not related to Excalibur at all, and Endless missions are still there.

5) Because they don't affect Exalted Weapons? That's perfectly fine

6)That's fine too

Excalibur is a jack of all trades that can perform well in any mission. You can pair a good melee with Shadow Debt mods and use him as a melee frame instead of going permanently into Exalted Spam.

8 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

So, his only "forte" (which is "being average") is overextended Survivals, for which he requires:
1) To gimp the frame's build;
because otherwise you will not perform on a level of Shadow Debt melee
2) To constantly waste energy restores;
because changes to Spin Blind made EBlade non-sustainable in any prolonged Survival
3) To use Naramon.
because the frame has no means of protecting himself against enemies in an overstayed Survival

1) Don't use Corrupted mods if you don't like their negative effects. And you can use a Shadow Debt melee and use Exalted Blade as a "f*ck this, spam to win!" kill'em all move instead of your default state.

2) Again, don't rely ENTIRELY on Exalted Blade, you have 3 other abilities and 3 weapons. The cost on spin blind is there to make it a choice rather than a given.

3) Why not casting Radial Blind? has a lot of range and with Stretch can lockdown all but the most expansive rooms in the game.

8 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

It also should be noted, that full Power Strength build for Excalibur was deliberately killed by DE not once, but twice. First time it was killed was when DE introduced duration/efficiency relation for toggles, which made Blind Rage/Transient/Fleeting build impossible to sustain. Second time it was when DE introduced energy cost on Spin Blind, which made Blind Rage/Narrow Minded/Transient build meaningless in a prolonged Survival.
So even when Excalibur gimps his build to achieve about the same level of performance a frame can get while equipping a Shadow Debt weapon - he can't do that efficiently.

Duration/Efficiency relation was implemented to make Fleeting Expertise a choice rather than a mandatory mod for Channeled abilities, and that's perfect because Corrupted mods aren't supposed to be mandatory. Already explained why Spin Blind is ok costing energy. How does exactly a Shadow Debt weapon applies here? You have f*cking ranged waves and Exalted Blade can nearly oneshot everything on a direct melee hit, because he's a melee frame, in case you forgot.

8 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

And to top all that, there is no point in doing prolonged Survivals anymore

Not related to Excalibur, again.

8 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

There is no objective reason to use Excalibur currently.

He's one of the best well-rounded Warframes available and it's easy to mod, unless you want to gimp yourself with Corrupted mods for no reason other than you want to be an Exalted Turret, which is your dam problem, the Warframe is fine.

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1 hour ago, Epsik-kun said:

snoop

Even with shadow debt mods, both atterax and orthos prime demand substantially more time to even begin to reach a properly exalted blade's damage-- specially those two, whose base damage really isn't that famous. Beyond this, their high range is circular, while EB's frontal, effectively making them incomparables-- so your "uhr duhr EB weapons already exist in game" analogy simply does not work. Not in damage terms, and not in function terms.

Hell, you cant even argue it is an unsustainable ability because it is very much sustainable. A ridiculously small cost ensure you don't need max efficiency. The most problematic thing you have is the annoying slide-- something I also don't enjoy. And not even that is much of a bother.

You've demonstrated your inability of lateral thinking by reducing Excalibur to Exalted Blade. Should an hypothetical weapon like you mentioned exist, Excal is still a good option. His whole kit, while not the best, is certainly very worthwhile; and he possesses very good and fun augments to boot. Indeed, slap Surging Dash on him and use that other exalted blade weapon and he is king. Also, Radial Blind. Seriously, how can you even argue he is useless now?

Well, in your defense, you aren't. No, you are arguing "There is no reason to choose him"

But why do you argue that?

"Because he isn't the best at dealing damage".

That's your argument.  Not  a deep, supported argument, but simply arguing that he is in a "pittyful state" because he isn't the best at doing what you want him to be the best at doing.

Excel is more than pure DPS. And even if he was, in this particular case, it is perfectly fine for him not to be the best.

You know why?

Because he is a starter, and because he is easy to use.

How do you want to incentive players to get new frames if they already have the top tier? How do you want for players to be rewarded if the easiest is also the best?

Well, you don't. You just want your dear Excal to go back at giving you the top kills by spamming Exalted Blade. It's the only thing you want.

The fact that you count "the disappearance of missions in which Excalibur is the best" as a nerf to him proves that.

 

Hell, just giving more grounds to your narrow mindedness, you argue that he's only able to shine on long survivals, when that's the only part in which the weapons you stated might begin to perform as well has exalted blade.

 

And if you mean "outshined and outperformed by everything else, as well as suffering direct power reductions" instead of "solely reduced through direct changes to him to a bad state" than you mean "metanerfed" (meta=beyond/abstraction, referring to the things that are beyond Excalibur, like mission types), not "overnerfed" (over=excessively). 

A frame doesn't have to be the "end be all" at a thing you want it to be for it to be worthwhile. Are you so upset your (and only yours, really, because mine isn't) exalted blade is outshined by other melee weapons? Use those melee weapons with Excal instead, and take advantage of Surging Dash and Radial Blind.

Edited by [DE]Taylor
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10 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Over the course of several latest updates, Excalibur had received a large amount of direct and indirect nerfs:

1) Spin Blind energy cost;
2) Wave damage fall off;
3) Parasitic auras affecting toggles;
4) Removal of rewards from Endless Void, removal of Draco;
5) Introduction of Shadow Debt mods.
6) Duration and Efficiency changes.

Currently, there's no objective reason to use Excalibur - on the vast majority of the game's content he can be heavily outperformed by a properly modded Shadow Debt melee in hands of a non-melee oriented frame. In endless Void he is only "on pair" with Shadow Debt melee at best.

So, his only "forte" (which is "being average") is overextended Survivals, for which he requires:
1) To gimp the frame's build;
because otherwise you will not perform on a level of Shadow Debt melee
2) To constantly waste energy restores;
because changes to Spin Blind made EBlade non-sustainable in any prolonged Survival
3) To use Naramon.
because the frame has no means of protecting himself against enemies in an overstayed Survival

It also should be noted, that full Power Strength build for Excalibur was deliberately killed by DE not once, but twice. First time it was killed was when DE introduced duration/efficiency relation for toggles, which made Blind Rage/Transient/Fleeting build impossible to sustain. Second time it was when DE introduced energy cost on Spin Blind, which made Blind Rage/Narrow Minded/Transient build meaningless in a prolonged Survival.
So even when Excalibur gimps his build to achieve about the same level of performance a frame can get while equipping a Shadow Debt weapon - he can't do that efficiently.

And to top all that, there is no point in doing prolonged Survivals anymore, which rises the initial problem:

There is no objective reason to use Excalibur currently.

 

Answers to default arguments:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

1) "Wave damage fall off makes him a swordsman"

No, it doesn't. The situation when you could've used only waves prior to the change and now you can't doesn't exist. Transition from waves to direct melee have stayed exactly the same. Meanwhile, Spin Blind nerf highly punishes going direct melee.

2) "Spin Blind is bad"

Spin Blind is a vital tool in Excalibur's arsenal, especially when he's dealing with high level enemies. Against high levels finishers are bad, and the actual Radial Blind rarely pays off due to both level design and enemy spawn tendency. Not to mention constant Radial Blinding isn't sustainable and not really possible, as Radial Blind has a cooldown.
Even now, when it costs energy, you have to use it to be effective. Previously it was one of Excalibur's saving graces, that allowed him to be actually better than a modded melee weapon.
Not knowing the strength of Spin Blind means you don't really know how to play Excalibur.

3) "You are only talking about Survivals"

Yes, because only Survivals is a mission where Excalibur can perform better than literally any other frame (including himself) that grabbed a Shadow Debt modded melee. It is his forte, and it was so since Exalted Blade was introduced.

4) "What you call Excalibur nerfs aren't actual Excalibur's nerfs"

That's what the word "indirect" is there for.

5) "These changes affected other frames too"

Yes they did, but I am not talking about other frames here. The fact is, these global changes dragged Excalibur down to and below the average level in melee, which is something he's supposed to excel at.

6) "It works for me"

Glad it does. But I am talking about objective things here, not subjective ones.

 

 

Agreed Excal has been #*($%%@ over by several nerfs.

Also to add to the list of nerfs, was the removal of syndicate augments affecting his EB 

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10 hours ago, ashrah said:

for me excalibur is blast man all u need is radial blind with good range

Yes, lets focus on one ability and leave the rest in a $hithole,

Exactly what DE was envisioning with the rework! /s

Edited by Dragazer
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Though I mostly use Ash Prime, I do go Excalibur from time to time and he's very powerful and I haven't noticed any downside to use him.

Slash Dash: Awesome gap closer if you invest in Stretch. Deals very good damage that scales off the combo counter.

Radial Blind: One of the best CC's in the game, also benefits from Stretch and the cost is reasonable for it's duration.

Radial Javelin: A goodish radial arsekickery

Exalted Blade: Awesome by default in the crowd clearing department, even more so if you have your combo counter up at the moment you unleash it's power, just make sure you have at least 1 enemy alive when you deactivate it.

 

Excalibur doesn't have any problem if you use their abilities the way they are intended instead of relying on Exalted Spam and Corrupted mod shenanigans. I suggest you to play Conclave, get used to that ability usage model and then come back to PvE with that skill and knowledge on hand, you will find Excalibur isn't a weak frame by any means.

Edited by [DE]Taylor
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When I use rhino and a pair of any dual blade weapons,  clear an entire room with roar and charge/melee combos does that Mean all the other frames are weak and need a buff? Is the weapon Im holding define the entire game for every one else? Or is rhino then overpowered because the way I play him is effective? This is to me what breaks this game and renders most of these types of threads virtually irrelevant. Out of 40+ frames and 400+ weapons you can't come up with multiple viable options for playing? But somehow that lack of intuitive play and understanding of the games options is in your mind a game flaw? Weird. 

Edited by Babellon
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1 hour ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I think the Telos Boltace perk would have looked better as Excals spin attack instead of blind.

Makes sense, since they wont add the attack to the melee combo counter anyways (making telos boltor super stupid and useless in anything higher than mid tier) 

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11 hours ago, IamRageypoo said:

Why is it when a person lays out the reasons they feel the way they do, someone (usually the first comment) comes along and ignores all the points and just says the exact opposite without offering anything to the conversation? 

 

*Exact same scenario* 

OP: "Cheese has been contributing to the slow death of humans for years, here are some extensive studies that show exactly how it is doing it and why"

Next post: I LIKE CHEEEESE! 

Why is it that people totally ignore the fact that "back in the old days" we had far worse abilities, and that Excalibur became OP overnight, and they are not "nerfs" they are balance passes.

"Exalted Blade has been nerfed! get the pitchforks!"

Yes, because losing Super Jump and gaining a weapon that can wipe maps was totally balanced.

 

You use Excalibur because you like Excalibur. Stop complaining you can't trivialize the game anymore because they balanced whacky abilities.

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20 minutes ago, IamRageypoo said:

[removed by mod]

Excalibur does not have "a problem". The player has a problem.

Just because you are unable to use tools properly does not mean the tools are the problems, it is because you have no idea how to use them.

 

Edited by [DE]Taylor
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Spin Blind energy cost is really the only thing I feel needs to be adjusted. Honestly I'd love being able to not have the Spin Blind at all and merely get a real slide attack. 

The radius is so short it almost never works, and I prefer to actively be able to choose when and if I want to do a Radial Blind.

Compared to, say, Valkyr's spin attack which is a massive high damage 5 hit combo. On Excalibur I'm afraid to spin attack unless at point blank range with a heavy. Which, arguably, then it works, but slide attacks are a crucial mid range gap closer in between bullet jumping and running, and avoiding them due to extra energy use is not conducive to up close melee gameplay.

Edited by Gelkor
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1 minute ago, Gelkor said:

Spin Blind energy cost is really the only thing I feel needs to be adjusted. Honestly I'd love being able to not have the Spin Blind at all and merely get a real slide attack. 

The radius is so short it almost never works.

Compared to, say, Valkyr's spin attack which is a massive high damage 5 hit combo. On Excalibur I'm afraid to spin attack unless at point blank range with a heavy.

part of that might be fixable if they changed the radius effecting from range to power...or just getting rid of it. 

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Just now, IamRageypoo said:

part of that might be fixable if they changed the radius effecting from range to power...or just getting rid of it. 

Even then, I'd still rather just not have it. 

Slide attacks are an integral part of melee only combat, they are mid range gap closers that drop you below line of fire and allow you to keep fighting while mobile without having to use bullet jumps, which are more about long range gap closers and require you to land before you can resume precision movement. 

Successive spin blinds become both annoying, and needlessly taxing on your energy pool just for wanting to close the distance quickly. 

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3 hours ago, DSpite said:

 

Why is it that people totally ignore the fact that "back in the old days" we had far worse abilities, and that Excalibur became OP overnight, and they are not "nerfs" they are balance passes.

"Exalted Blade has been nerfed! get the pitchforks!"

Yes, because losing Super Jump and gaining a weapon that can wipe maps was totally balanced.

 

You use Excalibur because you like Excalibur. Stop complaining you can't trivialize the game anymore because they balanced whacky abilities.

What you quoted was only to point out that a person wasn't contributing to the OP's original topic, what you are yelling at me to "stop complaining" about excalibur makes no sense, because I'm not the one complaining about excalibur. 

Mods, please fix. This person should not be attacking me for something I made no mention of, he either quoted me by accident, or for whatever reason equates the OP's statement as if they are my own, which they are not. 

Edited by [DE]Taylor
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13 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Over the course of several latest updates, Excalibur had received a large amount of direct and indirect nerfs:

1) Spin Blind energy cost;
2) Wave damage fall off;
3) Parasitic auras affecting toggles;
4) Removal of rewards from Endless Void, removal of Draco;
5) Introduction of Shadow Debt mods.
6) Duration and Efficiency changes.

Currently, there's no objective reason to use Excalibur - on the vast majority of the game's content he can be heavily outperformed by a properly modded Shadow Debt melee in hands of a non-melee oriented frame. In endless Void he is only "on pair" with Shadow Debt melee at best.

So, his only "forte" (which is "being average") is overextended Survivals, for which he requires:
1) To gimp the frame's build;
because otherwise you will not perform on a level of Shadow Debt melee
2) To constantly waste energy restores;
because changes to Spin Blind made EBlade non-sustainable in any prolonged Survival
3) To use Naramon.
because the frame has no means of protecting himself against enemies in an overstayed Survival

It also should be noted, that full Power Strength build for Excalibur was deliberately killed by DE not once, but twice. First time it was killed was when DE introduced duration/efficiency relation for toggles, which made Blind Rage/Transient/Fleeting build impossible to sustain. Second time it was when DE introduced energy cost on Spin Blind, which made Blind Rage/Narrow Minded/Transient build meaningless in a prolonged Survival.
So even when Excalibur gimps his build to achieve about the same level of performance a frame can get while equipping a Shadow Debt weapon - he can't do that efficiently.

And to top all that, there is no point in doing prolonged Survivals anymore, which rises the initial problem:

There is no objective reason to use Excalibur currently.

 

Answers to default arguments:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

1) "Wave damage fall off makes him a swordsman"

No, it doesn't. The situation when you could've used only waves prior to the change and now you can't doesn't exist. Transition from waves to direct melee have stayed exactly the same. Meanwhile, Spin Blind nerf highly punishes going direct melee.

2) "Spin Blind is bad"

Spin Blind is a vital tool in Excalibur's arsenal, especially when he's dealing with high level enemies. Against high levels finishers are bad, and the actual Radial Blind rarely pays off due to both level design and enemy spawn tendency. Not to mention constant Radial Blinding isn't sustainable and not really possible, as Radial Blind has a cooldown.
Even now, when it costs energy, you have to use it to be effective. Previously it was one of Excalibur's saving graces, that allowed him to be actually better than a modded melee weapon.
Not knowing the strength of Spin Blind means you don't really know how to play Excalibur.

3) "You are only talking about Survivals"

Yes, because only Survivals is a mission where Excalibur can perform better than literally any other frame (including himself) that grabbed a Shadow Debt modded melee. It is his forte, and it was so since Exalted Blade was introduced.

4) "What you call Excalibur nerfs aren't actual Excalibur's nerfs"

That's what the word "indirect" is there for.

5) "These changes affected other frames too"

Yes they did, but I am not talking about other frames here. The fact is, these global changes dragged Excalibur down to and below the average level in melee, which is something he's supposed to excel at.

6) "It works for me"

Glad it does. But I am talking about objective things here, not subjective ones.

 

 

 

I'm glad they "nerfed" it. Lets see why are you are actually complaining:

Let's start with that. You are annoyed that now your Excalibur is not a glorified "kill everything with Exalted Blade" because apparently, that is ALL you do currently.

 

Your account usage of 619 missions hours shows your Excalibur as main, with an usage of 72%, 188 Million Affinity and 424,321 kills. FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND KILLS just on the Frame.

Those facts combined basically shout "I use nothing but Exalted Blade" to me, since "normal" usage statistics just on the Frames are usually an entire ORDER of magnitude lower then yours, and that's not even accounting for the fact you use other Frames, so that number is far far worse in practice.

They "nerfed" nothing. They did the SAME thing they did to Mesa, which was "make the ability not a press-button-to-wipe-map".

The only interest you seem to have is to have a farming game. There is already one, it's called Farmville.

Ultimate abilities are meant to be the "smart bombs" of the Arcade games, something used when a situation has gone foobar and you need to bring it under control, and NOT the primary tool we use for everything, instead of using guns, or tactics, or team play, or our other abilities.

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1 hour ago, IamRageypoo said:

What you quoted was only to point out that a person wasn't contributing to the OP's original topic, what you are yelling at me to "stop complaining" about excalibur makes no sense, because I'm not the one complaining about excalibur. 

Mods, please fix. This person should not be attacking me for something I made no mention of, he either quoted me by accident, or for whatever reason equates the OP's statement as if they are my own, which they are not. 

 

I'm pretty sure it was removed because you made that hashtag.

As far as "attacking you"? I'm not attacking anyone, and I strongly suggest that you don't tell "moderators to get some sense" as that is actually an example of attacking someone, because as far as I can tell here, you have basically stated that the mod that changed the comment "has no sense". Feel free to correct me if that is not what you meant.

Your original comment was basically that "people come along and ignore all the points", when the points clearly state "you nerfed my one button turret". And you agree with that? You agree that Excalibur should just be a turret? You want me to address the individual points?

1) Spin Blind energy cost -- Yea, so you can't spam Blind and hold down an entire map NON STOP.
2) Wave damage fall off -- Because having a 40 meter, Wave Motion Gun was totally balanced.
3) Parasitic auras affecting toggles -- It (briefly) stops him using his Wave Motion Gun.
4) Removal of rewards from Endless Void, removal of Draco -- Draco, where I'm sure he managed to get 424 THOUSAND kills with the Wave Motion Gun.
5) Introduction of Shadow Debt mods -- Now other Frames are good as well, where exactly is the bad thing in that?
6) Duration and Efficiency changes -- So you can't SPAM the Wave Motion Gun.

Is that better?

All the OP did all day long was wipe the Draco map for loot. DE stopped his farming spree, and he is unhappy. That is all that is happening here. His points are NOT valid, they are an Agenda.

The changes bring back Excalibur more in line with Mesa abilities, which is "use them when they are needed" and not "just turn them on and clear the map.

There is ZERO issues with the changes.

 

Edited by [DE]Taylor
removed rude remark in quoted comment
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2 minutes ago, DSpite said:

 

I'm pretty sure it was removed because you made that hashtag.

As far as "attacking you"? I'm not attacking anyone, and I strongly suggest that you don't tell "moderators to get some sense" as that is actually an example of attacking someone, because as far as I can tell here, you have basically stated that the mod that changed the comment "has no sense". Feel free to correct me if that is not what you meant.

Your original comment was basically that "people come along and ignore all the points", when the points clearly state "you nerfed my one button turret". And you agree with that? You agree that Excalibur should just be a turret? You want me to address the individual points?

1) Spin Blind energy cost -- Yea, so you can't spam Blind and hold down an entire map NON STOP.
2) Wave damage fall off -- Because having a 40 meter, Wave Motion Gun was totally balanced.
3) Parasitic auras affecting toggles -- It stops him using his Waver Motion Gun
4) Removal of rewards from Endless Void, removal of Draco -- Draco, whre I'm sure he managed to get 424 THOUSAND kills with the Wave Motion Gun.
5) Introduction of Shadow Debt mods -- Now other Frames are good as well, where exactly is the bad thing in that?
6) Duration and Efficiency changes -- So you can't SPAM the Wave Motion Gun.

Does that please you more?

All the OP did all day long was wipe the Draco map for loot. DE stopped his farming spree, and he is unhappy. That is all that is happening here. His points are NOT valid, they are an Agenda.

The changes bring back Excalibur more in line with Mesa abilities, which is "use them when they are needed" and not "just turn them on and clear the map.

There is ZERO issues with the changes.

 

No, once again you are assuming that I agree with the OP, as if his comments are my own or something, when my comment was simply about the next person's comment not contributing to the conversation, do I really need to say it over and over again? 

Edited by IamRageypoo
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13 minutes ago, DSpite said:

 

I'm pretty sure it was removed because you made that hashtag.

As far as "attacking you"? I'm not attacking anyone, and I strongly suggest that you don't tell "moderators to get some sense" as that is actually an example of attacking someone, because as far as I can tell here, you have basically stated that the mod that changed the comment "has no sense". Feel free to correct me if that is not what you meant.

Your original comment was basically that "people come along and ignore all the points", when the points clearly state "you nerfed my one button turret". And you agree with that? You agree that Excalibur should just be a turret? You want me to address the individual points?

1) Spin Blind energy cost -- Yea, so you can't spam Blind and hold down an entire map NON STOP.
2) Wave damage fall off -- Because having a 40 meter, Wave Motion Gun was totally balanced.
3) Parasitic auras affecting toggles -- It (briefly) stops him using his Wave Motion Gun.
4) Removal of rewards from Endless Void, removal of Draco -- Draco, where I'm sure he managed to get 424 THOUSAND kills with the Wave Motion Gun.
5) Introduction of Shadow Debt mods -- Now other Frames are good as well, where exactly is the bad thing in that?
6) Duration and Efficiency changes -- So you can't SPAM the Wave Motion Gun.

Is that better?

All the OP did all day long was wipe the Draco map for loot. DE stopped his farming spree, and he is unhappy. That is all that is happening here. His points are NOT valid, they are an Agenda.

The changes bring back Excalibur more in line with Mesa abilities, which is "use them when they are needed" and not "just turn them on and clear the map.

There is ZERO issues with the changes.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say there are absolutely zero issues with the changes, personally. Though I don't necessarily agree with many, if any of OP's original points.

Like I've mentioned, even before adding energy cost to the Radial Spin Blind, many Excalibur users considered the Radial Spin Blind to be unnecessary, and kinda distracting, especially if you are a melee user who prefers to rely on spin attacks for mobility and for damage. Hek, the constant blinding flashes were fairly punishing in their own right. Now, adding an energy cost to a feature that many don't even like seems unduly burdensome.

I feel like there could have been better ways to go about increasing energy usage for Exalted Blade, or possibly making the Radial Spin Blind an option to fire off with the Alt Fire button, similar to Ivara's Instant Quiver use while in Artemis Bow. I'd be fine with that, and with it having an energy cost, if it meant having a real melee-oriented slide attack.

Edited by Gelkor
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24 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

I wouldn't necessarily say there are absolutely zero issues with the changes, personally. Though I don't necessarily agree with many, if any of OP's original points.

Like I've mentioned, even before adding energy cost to the Radial Spin Blind, many Excalibur users considered the Radial Spin Blind to be unnecessary, and kinda distracting, especially if you are a melee user who prefers to rely on spin attacks for mobility and for damage. Hek, the constant blinding flashes were fairly punishing in their own right. Now, adding an energy cost to a feature that many don't even like seems unduly burdensome.

I feel like there could have been better ways to go about increasing energy usage for Exalted Blade, or possibly making the Radial Spin Blind an option to fire off with the Alt Fire button, similar to Ivara's Instant Quiver use while in Artemis Bow. I'd be fine with that, and with it having an energy cost, if it meant having a real melee-oriented slide attack.

 

I have a secondary account where I main Excalibur, and it has not had an impact to my gameplay, but I don't use him as a glorified energy turret. I like to actually "play", and I don't get the instant impulse to turn EB "on" like an energy gun and go to town on the entire level. For the record, I started that BEFORE Exalted Blade, and am actually unhappy it exists at all. It is totally out of proportion to the other abilities.

The issue seems to be - much like a Simulor - that the ability has/had no "mechanics restraints" for an Ultimate. It would be like stackable Molecular Primes or Blade Storms that are instantly re-castable. It makes no sense from an ability like EB to be "on tap" like it is, it's like seeing Jedi's resolve ANY problem by just pulling out a light saber and chopping up everything, or Superman solving things by going into low orbit and Heat Beaming it.

It should be a tool to solve specific situations, not to solve EVERY situation.

The OP is unhappy that his main Frame has been made "less optimal" for clearing high level content, which technically, should happen to ALL Frames, not that Excalibur is broken. If anything, also "break" all the other weird abilities - looking at you, Blade Storm - and shrink the unit levels of the enemies as well, so we have a more even playing field, and not "we only die when we get Nullifier spam".

The OP did made a few good points in other threads about maybe removing the wave, but the replacement suggestions still made it sound he wanted to keep the same level of power, just in a slightly different package, and only agree with a few of them.

Edited by DSpite
Points.
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