[Mission Idea] In response to Veteran Players Wanting a Challenge: Stronghold Mission

[FoxFX]

PROBLEM ADDRESSED

• Recent and reoccurring talk of "Veteran Warframe Players" finding no challenging content to test their gear further or feel a rewarding content to do

 

SOLUTION SUGGESTED: THE STRONGHOLD MISSION

• Stronghold Mission connects the current Warframe gameplay with a "dungeon crawler" mechanic to it
  • Players will be tasked to fight through rooms requiring a single objective to complete in order to move on to the next room
  • Core location of this mission will reside in the Sanctuary/Simulacrum
  • Mission consists of new Eximus bringing in new challenges and strategies for players to utilize and overcome challenges
  • CORE DETAILS BEHIND THE CONCEPT AND LORE IS LOCATED IN THIS LINK

 

Quote

PERSONAL REFLECTION

I want to share the reasoning behind the idea I have brought up in this thread. I feel it is sometimes important for me to let out what I am thinking especially when there is something wrong or out of place. To begin, I'd like to try and share an answer to a question a friend once asked me in Warframe:

What makes a game challenging?

Challenge comes from having to create new strategies and tactics for different scenarios, and having the skill to pull them off. Not enough of either and the game becomes repetitive. However, going to the opposite extreme will make a game frustrating.

Whenever a player enters a mission in Warframe they know exactly what type of mission it is, what type of enemy they are facing, and what weapons to bring and "cheese" through. It is this typical mentality that I fear is causing these "veteran players" to loose interest and seek out a challenging content.

The players themselves could always have the option to limit or chose different builds for the sake of personal enjoyment and challenges, but I feel there is a possibility of a new content to offer the excitement and strategic play they have been looking for.

Then there is the infamous "CC Rules the game" ideology that has run rampant in this game. However, with Eximus, we can include a new set of Eximus enemies that can counter such strategies easier and perhaps be immune to certain powers and status effect.

It is part of these things I have observed that led me to the realization of the Stronghold Concept.

A mission where players will NOT be able to know what type of mission they will get themselves into.

A mission where Crowd Control tactics will not always win out with these new Eximus units.

A mission that stacks the rewarding the more you venture and the more you discover.

A mission that grants a presence of exploration in combat.

Whether or not this idea will be effective I cannot say, but the best challenging scenario is a scenario you cannot predict.

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by FoxFX

[MokutoBunshi]

......this looks AWESOME..

 

]\'[

[DiabolusUrsus]

Definitely an interesting concept, but I still believe that we won't see a proper challenge until we accept a more... disciplined degree of game balance.

I like challenges. I don't like being required to cheese cheese with more intense cheese.

[Mutt2679]

Really..... really..... really cool idea. 

I agree with DiabolusUrsus as well, enemy scaling, damage 3.0, Plus this concept...... If implemented right, it could be an awesome and most welcome addition to the game

[iPathos]

Full support for this idea, it sounds like a variable and unique way to both challenge and intrigue veteran players. I would play the hell out of it, for sure.

[AcceptYourDeath]

!!!!!!!!!!! Me likes :D 

[FoxFX]

The link to the details/sandbox ideas of the Stronghold concept will be updated with some possible new enemies, rooms, and hopefully a description of the rewards you can get completing this mission type.

 

I thank you all for your support

[FoxFX]

I wanted to touch base on the core reason I created this concept and part of my logic behind the talks of veteran players loosing interest in the game of Warframe.

[FoxFX]

PERSONAL REFLECTION

I want to share the reasoning behind the idea I have brought up in this thread. I feel it is sometimes important for me to let out what I am thinking especially when there is something wrong or out of place. To begin, I'd like to try and share an answer to a question a friend once asked me in Warframe:

What makes a game challenging?

Challenge comes from having to create new strategies and tactics for different scenarios, and having the skill to pull them off. Not enough of either and the game becomes repetitive. However, going to the opposite extreme will make a game frustrating.

Whenever a player enters a mission in Warframe they know exactly what type of mission it is, what type of enemy they are facing, and what weapons to bring and "cheese" through. It is this typical mentality that I fear is causing these "veteran players" to loose interest and seek out a challenging content.

The players themselves could always have the option to limit or chose different builds for the sake of personal enjoyment and challenges, but I feel there is a possibility of a new content to offer the excitement and strategic play they have been looking for.

Then there is the infamous "CC Rules the game" ideology that has run rampant in this game. However, with Eximus, we can include a new set of Eximus enemies that can counter such strategies easier and perhaps be immune to certain powers and status effect.

It is part of these things I have observed that led me to the realization of the Stronghold Concept.

A mission where players will NOT be able to know what type of mission they will get themselves into.

A mission where Crowd Control tactics will not always win out with these new Eximus units.

A mission that stacks the rewarding the more you venture and the more you discover.

A mission that grants a presence of exploration in combat.

Whether or not this idea will be effective I cannot say, but the best challenging scenario is a scenario you cannot predict.

[FoxFX]

If you guys have any additional ideas or experiences in dungeon crawling, please share any mechanic/aspect of that type of game genre that can be added into the Stronghold concept.

[FoxFX]

I want to know something, would any of you prefer the Trials we have now to remain as is or be something like what I've presented?

[FoxFX]

I want to tough base on what would constitute as rewarding for endgame in Warframe with this idea.

[FoxFX]

ENEMY VARIETY

 

Warframe has a ton of enemy variety. This variety however is dependent on the Faction and size/armor/shield class an individual unit falls into. In this case, the enemy variety dictates the actions that enemy takes and what it will try to do to impede the player's progress in a mission. However, with such a high enemy variety comes a very high demand for specific drops from them. Some individual enemy would be common to spawn while another individual enemy uncommonly and rarely spawns in a mission.

 

One thing players have been arguing over is the enemy scaling and how it limits their "hard-worked gear" against a stronger foe. Granted that [DE] has plans to remedy that issue, but what would happen then? Players have been asking for a new challenging content and if there is to be an adjustment to the enemy's strength, let us see what we can do if we change how an enemy's perks can do.

 

Such is the reason I wanted to emphasize the Eximus units in this concept of the Stronghold Mission. Eximus as we have it now are kinda outdated or have abilities that more or less feels way to cheep for them to be around (Incinerator Eximus and their Fire Blasts for example). If we could take a few moments to look into the Eximus we have now, I think we can make a conclusion that the variety and potential of the Eximus has yet to reach the peak.

[MokutoBunshi]

WOW, you got ideas :)

 

]\'[

[FoxFX]

11 hours ago, MokutoBunshi said:

WOW, you got ideas :)

 

]\'[

Your support is welcomed. There are many that enjoyed this specific content and I wish not to have this die down. Alas, I fear this will be the case soon.

[MokutoBunshi]

Not as long im here to bump :P

and hopefully the devs see this and feature it in the prime time.

 

]\'[ 

[FoxFX]

11 hours ago, MokutoBunshi said:

Not as long im here to bump :P

and hopefully the devs see this and feature it in the prime time.

 

]\'[ 

 

Well, thanks again for your support.

[--MWT--PrimeowBatoto--]

i just want something like the old void....missed it already....RIP spectre of the rail update

[FoxFX]

1 hour ago, --MWT--PrimeowBatoto-- said:

i just want something like the old void....missed it already....RIP spectre of the rail update

 

While there are things we enjoyed about the old void, we can make something anew with that. There is always a way to make something that can potentially be better than the past.

[Somb3rBivalve]

Warframe + dungeon crawler = amazing

I think this would work great in warframe, but I think it would be reasonable for this to just take place on any tileset, or else DE would have to make a whole new simulacrum tileset with tons of new rooms. It's still a great idea though.

[EinheriarJudith]

before touching the so called "Challenge" lets first get rid of the elephant in the room A.K.A Bullet Sponges.

[FoxFX]

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

before touching the so called "Challenge" lets first get rid of the elephant in the room A.K.A Bullet Sponges.

Perhaps explain your concerns a bit more? Are you trying to talk about enemy scaling?

[EinheriarJudith]

20 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

Perhaps explain your concerns a bit more? Are you trying to talk about enemy scaling?

currently some of the enemy AI have poor mechanics. and yes enemy scaling is quite bad. the bursa are one of my fav units because of their mechanics they can easily get outta control when they are surrounded by ally units but they are not bullet sponges. the enemies just rush you as if they are berserk rather than using team tactics. light units and some medium units could do with AI upgrades. if enemies fought in small tight squads and used tactics like protecting their sniper or protecting their healer ancient then we would have actuall challenge. enemies with bloated stats =/= challenge and therefore would have to be rethought before the subject of challenge can even be addressed.

in Killing floor 2 melee units guard their heads with their melee weapon (protect from headshots) and move slower and also roll dodge and grab you. things like that are great mechanics without needing to bullet sponge. Bullet sponge is always the worst way to go in ANY video game.  

EDIT: Aura mods that effect enemies should be removed and the problems addressed imo auras should only effect self and squad members.

Edited September 30, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[FoxFX]

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

currently some of the enemy AI have poor mechanics. and yes enemy scaling is quite bad. the bursa are one of my fav units because of their mechanics they can easily get outta control when they are surrounded by ally units but they are not bullet sponges. the enemies just rush you as if they are berserk rather than using team tactics. light units and some medium units could do with AI upgrades. if enemies fought in small tight squads and used tactics like protecting their sniper or protecting their healer ancient then we would have actuall challenge. enemies with bloated stats =/= challenge and therefore would have to be rethought before the subject of challenge can even be addressed.

in Killing floor 2 melee units guard their heads with their melee weapon (protect from headshots) and move slower and also roll dodge and grab you. things like that are great mechanics without needing to bullet sponge. Bullet sponge is always the worst way to go in ANY video game.  

EDIT: Aura mods that effect enemies should be removed and the problems addressed imo auras should only effect self and squad members.

 

I understand and a part of me acknowledges the point you have made about this. However, there is something we must take note about the current gameplay of Warframe:

 

Warframe has started to become a MMO Horde Shooter.

 

I am sure [DE] is capable of recreating the AI of the mobs, but doing so would completely change the game and the time it would do that could be extremely long. With a complicated AI programming, this could hider the performance of the host of missions in game.

There is also something a good friend someone I know pointed out: "Crowd Control rules all." The current meta in Warframe has abilities that can prevent enemy attacks to be the most powerful gameplay strategies in Warframe now. If these abilities of these Warframes (like a Loki's Radial Disarm) were to still exist, what good would such advanced AI do if they can be dumped down by disarming, confusion, freezing, burning, drowning them into a puddle, blinding, knocking them down to the ground, etc.?

 

If [DE] decided to stick to what you would want from this game: a more tactical game with advanced AI strategies, they would need to completely change the game. There are also possible ideas of not requiring Auras that directly affect enemies and to use a new system, but until enemy scaling is sorted out with [DE], we cannot determine what would be the next move.

[EinheriarJudith]

2 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

~snip~

agreed. enemy scaling needs sorting first ^_^.