[Mission Idea] In response to Veteran Players Wanting a Challenge: Stronghold Mission

[FoxFX]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

agreed. enemy scaling needs sorting first ^_^.

And [DE] has been reporting in on working with it. Of course, the concept I have presented takes into account the current scaling situation and any possibility of Enemy Scale changes. We just need to wait and see after War Within if there is going to be progress on it.

 

It is not only enemy scaling that is the core issue alone. There has been talk of veteran players leaving the game simply because they are getting uninterested in the repetitive gameplay Warframe currently offers. We need something fresh, something players will not expect. That is part of the reason why I made this idea.

[MokutoBunshi]

On 9/30/2016 at 11:24 AM, Somb3rBivalve said:

Warframe + dungeon crawler = amazing

I think this would work great in warframe, but I think it would be reasonable for this to just take place on any tileset, or else DE would have to make a whole new simulacrum tileset with tons of new rooms. It's still a great idea though.

They can use copy/P tiles they already have.

 

]\'[

[MokutoBunshi]

Duplicate post :P

 

]\'[

Edited October 2, 2016 by MokutoBunshi

[CalmAndHappy]

It has potential and i 100% support it tho some things need to be fixed/balanced before this comes on idea board or in development 

[FoxFX]

17 hours ago, Legacy_STALKER said:

It has potential and i 100% support it tho some things need to be fixed/balanced before this comes on idea board or in development 

There is also a potential that the idea and mechanics of this mission type could be the framework of the Dark Sector.

[FoxFX]

UPDATE:

 

I feel there might be a need to redo the list of Eximus Units based on the Factions they fall into.

[MokutoBunshi]

On 9/30/2016 at 11:24 AM, Somb3rBivalve said:

Warframe + dungeon crawler = amazing

I think this would work great in warframe, but I think it would be reasonable for this to just take place on any tileset, or else DE would have to make a whole new simulacrum tileset with tons of new rooms. It's still a great idea though.

List away.

]\'[

[Cyandana]

Bump. Suggestion is better quality than any major content release we've had lol.

[MokutoBunshi]

6 hours ago, Cyandana said:

Bump. Suggestion is better quality than any major content release we've had lol.

yup -_-

 

]\'[

[FoxFX]

18 hours ago, Cyandana said:

Bump. Suggestion is better quality than any major content release we've had lol.

 

Thank you for the support.

[[DE]Draice]

I feel there's something here, but... we can take this further. (Disclaimer: These are my thoughts alone, and not representative of DE as a whole) Let's bounce some more game play ideas, and highlight Veteran concerns and possible solutions in this thread, and I'll work on something I can pitch to Steve and Scott for next year. These are my thoughts on some of the features you laid out :

 

{Player Limit}: 2~4 Players , 4~8 Players for Nightmare
- Balancing a mode for 8 players is exponentially more difficult than balancing for 4 players. The amount of raw power and utility each additional Warframe brings to the team the only way of making things more challenging is by turning enemies into bullet sponges. I don't more bullet sponge enemies, so I would try to craft a 4-player experience for Veteran Players, and leave the 8-player experience for the Trial and Nightmare Trial game modes.

 

{Entrance Limit}: Debatable to once a Week

- I think this is too restrictive. If we give players a new game mode to play, they should have the freedom to play it as much as they want. I don't like gating in MMOs that artificially slow down your progression to make their content last longer. One thing I really like about Diablo 3 is the Adventure Mode. I like how once you complete your bounties, you get rewarded with a couple of caches containing a bunch of loot, and then you get given another set of bounties straight away. To make this mode different to the others, perhaps we could reuse the Sorties UI. As an example, let's say you are given 2 random stronghold missions, then a mini-boss assassination, followed by two more stronghold missions and then a final boss assassination mission. Completing that will give you a reward a reward screen. I'd want something new for this, something like when you open a Mod Pack. Something that's in your face, showing you all the cool stuff you just picked up. Then, the panel would update with a new set of Stronghold missions and assassinations for you to play. 

 

{Level Limit}: NORMAL = Level 30 - 60, NIGHTMARE = Level 50 - 80
" Majority of enemies in the STRONGHOLD Mission are Eximus "

Looks good, at first glance. I'm not sure what is happening with enemy scaling, but I'd like to take the enemies here in a different direction to just inflating numbers. I've been experimenting with this concept in the Arena game mode for Rathuum, and would like to evolve on that. I don't think making most enemies Eximus variants is the key. Like the Arena mode, I think this one will have its own unique blend of enemies, so it doesn't interfere with the classic Warframe experience found in the standard mission modes. For this one, I'd look to games like Bloodborne and Dark Souls for inspiration (just my own personal taste), so each enemy would have 1-3 attack patterns they could switch between, and each of those attack patterns would feature windows of opportunity for you to either prevent their damage, or deal your own damage to them. I'd also create units that have specific counter measures in their skill set to certain Warframe powers. 

As an example, Loki uses Radial Disarm on a group of enemies. I'd see if I can have this ability tweaked for these enemies (may not be functionally possible, I'm just spit-balling ideas), so that instead of just switching to melee weapons, their weapons are cast aside several meters away in a random direction, the same weapon drop mechanic used by Titania's Dust Bloom ability.

All enemies are staggered, but one of the enemies reacts, shaking off the stagger effect immediately. They shout a curse at the Loki in their native language, and a shield deploys around them. Behind the shield a red light on their chest begins to flash, and a high pitch beep can be heard, its frequency increasing every second. The enemy charges the Loki, who begins to unload a barrage of bullets into the charging enemy. The shield breaks, but not before the enemy reaches the Loki. The enemy explodes, knocking the Loki down, and causing any other Warframes witnessing the explosion to become blinded for several seconds.

In this time, the enemies have recovered from the stagger. Two of them are closer to Loki than their disarmed weapons, so they just run to Loki and engage him with their melee weapons. The remainder of the unit run for their guns, and then take cover continuing the fight. 

The counterplay here would be that all players need to focus the Suicide Bomber and take him down before he reaches the Loki. If they fail to save the Loki, they can still save themselves by facing away from the bomber before he detonates, so they will not be blinded and can take down the enemies that are running for their guns or closing in on the Loki.

I 'think' veteran players would appreciate a game mode that is designed around these kinds of moments, in addition to the classic game modes. (I could be wrong, if you think this idea is horrible, let me know!)

 

{Tileset}: Simulacrum Tileset with a "warped" background

This I feel is too limiting, and would cause the game mode to feel stagnant after playing through multiple times. We have a large variety of tile sets now, so we should put them all to use.

 

New Weapon Variant - Datum:

Personally, I don't think rehashed, more powerful versions of existing weapons is the way to go. We bring out new weapons with unique and fun mechanics on a regular basis. I feel this would shoe-horn players into playing this mode to get the best weapons. This would be mitigated somewhat by only allowing players to run this once per week, but as mentioned above, that's not something I would want when I'm playing Warframe.

One feature I liked with the Trials are the Arcane Enhancements, but I think we can evolve those for this game mode. I'm thinking Weapon Arcanes, and a new consumable item to add "Arcane Sockets" to your weapons. Depending on the category of the weapon, each can be equipped with 2-3 weapon arcanes.

I'd want these to be a little different to the standard arcanes, and feel a little more interactive. Every 3rd attack with your melee weapon drains 2/4/6% of the enemy's maximum health, and restores yours by the same amount. The final rank on the Weapon Arcanes should be really special. On Kill: Enemy explodes for dealing X% of the damage they took in the last 3 seconds to nearby enemies, and restoring that much health split among you and your allies.

Then perhaps we can go even further, and add some kind of classification to these Arcanes, and have synergy bonuses when paired with other weapon arcanes. So if you have a Cold Weapon Arcane and an Electric weapon arcane equipped on a weapon, you might get Bonus Effects like, killing an enemy causes nearby enemies to be pulled to their location, or increase Magnetic damage by a small amount.

This way, players will be able to use the weapons they want to play with, and if RNG awards you with loot you have already obtained, you can put it to use instead of having a duplicate weapon in your inventory.

 

So, not making any promises here, just voicing a few ideas to join in the discussion. I'm pretty busy, so I won't be able to reply to often in this thread, but I have it bookmarked and will read up on comments often. There's some good ideas here, but I think we can go bigger and better. Sometime in the future (probably sometime next year), I'll collate the ideas and turn them into a pitch for the powers that be.

 

Cheers,
Draice.

Edited October 7, 2016 by [DE]Draice

[Insizer]

2 hours ago, [DE]Draice said:

{Entrance Limit}: Debatable to once a Week

- I think this is too restrictive. If we give players a new game mode to play, they should have the freedom to play it as much as they want.

Hallelujah. Thank you. One of the biggest reasons why Raids and sorties are not effective end-game is because players cannot replay it again and again. This just leaves vets with nothing to do but cheese through normal levels and leaves them bored. 

[FoxFX]

2 hours ago, [DE]Draice said:

I feel there's something here, but... we can take this further. (Disclaimer: These are my thoughts alone, and not representative of DE as a whole) Let's bounce some more game play ideas, and highlight Veteran concerns and possible solutions in this thread, and I'll work on something I can pitch to Steve and Scott for next year. These are my thoughts on some of the features you laid out :

 

{Player Limit}: 2~4 Players , 4~8 Players for Nightmare
- Balancing a mode for 8 players is exponentially more difficult than balancing for 4 players. The amount of raw power and utility each additional Warframe brings to the team the only way of making things more challenging is by turning enemies into bullet sponges. I don't more bullet sponge enemies, so I would try to craft a 4-player experience for Veteran Players, and leave the 8-player experience for the Trial and Nightmare Trial game modes.

 

{Entrance Limit}: Debatable to once a Week

- I think this is too restrictive. If we give players a new game mode to play, they should have the freedom to play it as much as they want. I don't like gating in MMOs that artificially slow down your progression to make their content last longer. One thing I really like about Diablo 3 is the Adventure Mode. I like how once you complete your bounties, you get rewarded with a couple of caches containing a bunch of loot, and then you get given another set of bounties straight away. To make this mode different to the others, perhaps we could reuse the Sorties UI. As an example, let's say you are given 2 random stronghold missions, then a mini-boss assassination, followed by two more stronghold missions and then a final boss assassination mission. Completing that will give you a reward a reward screen. I'd want something new for this, something like when you open a Mod Pack. Something that's in your face, showing you all the cool stuff you just picked up. Then, the panel would update with a new set of Stronghold missions and assassinations for you to play. 

 

{Level Limit}: NORMAL = Level 30 - 60, NIGHTMARE = Level 50 - 80
" Majority of enemies in the STRONGHOLD Mission are Eximus "

Looks good, at first glance. I'm not sure what is happening with enemy scaling, but I'd like to take the enemies here in a different direction to just inflating numbers. I've been experimenting with this concept in the Arena game mode for Rathuum, and would like to evolve on that. I don't think making most enemies Eximus variants is the key. Like the Arena mode, I think this one will have its own unique blend of enemies, so it doesn't interfere with the classic Warframe experience found in the standard mission modes. For this one, I'd look to games like Bloodborne and Dark Souls for inspiration (just my own personal taste), so each enemy would have 1-3 attack patterns they could switch between, and each of those attack patterns would feature windows of opportunity for you to either prevent their damage, or deal your own damage to them. I'd also create units that have specific counter measures in their skill set to certain Warframe powers. 

As an example, Loki uses Radial Disarm on a group of enemies. I'd see if I can have this ability tweaked for these enemies (may not be functionally possible, I'm just spit-balling ideas), so that instead of just switching to melee weapons, their weapons are cast aside several meters away in a random direction, the same weapon drop mechanic used by Titania's Dust Bloom ability.

All enemies are staggered, but one of the enemies reacts, shaking off the stagger effect immediately. They shout a curse at the Loki in their native language, and a shield deploys around them. Behind the shield a red light on their chest begins to flash, and a high pitch beep can be heard, its frequency increasing every second. The enemy charges the Loki, who begins to unload a barrage of bullets into the charging enemy. The shield breaks, but not before the enemy reaches the Loki. The enemy explodes, knocking the Loki down, and causing any other Warframes witnessing the explosion to become blinded for several seconds.

In this time, the enemies have recovered from the stagger. Two of them are closer to Loki than their disarmed weapons, so they just run to Loki and engage him with their melee weapons. The remainder of the unit run for their guns, and then take cover continuing the fight. 

The counterplay here would be that all players need to focus the Suicide Bomber and take him down before he reaches the Loki. If they fail to save the Loki, they can still save themselves by facing away from the bomber before he detonates, so they will not be blinded and can take down the enemies that are running for their guns or closing in on the Loki.

I 'think' veteran players would appreciate a game mode that is designed around these kinds of moments, in addition to the classic game modes. (I could be wrong, if you think this idea is horrible, let me know!)

 

{Tileset}: Simulacrum Tileset with a "warped" background

This I feel is too limiting, and would cause the game mode to feel stagnant after playing through multiple times. We have a large variety of tile sets now, so we should put them all to use.

 

New Weapon Variant - Datum:

Personally, I don't think rehashed, more powerful versions of existing weapons is the way to go. We bring out new weapons with unique and fun mechanics on a regular basis. I feel this would shoe-horn players into playing this mode to get the best weapons. This would be mitigated somewhat by only allowing players to run this once per week, but as mentioned above, that's not something I would want when I'm playing Warframe.

One feature I liked with the Trials are the Arcane Enhancements, but I think we can evolve those for this game mode. I'm thinking Weapon Arcanes, and a new consumable item to add "Arcane Sockets" to your weapons. Depending on the category of the weapon, each can be equipped with 2-3 weapon arcanes.

I'd want these to be a little different to the standard arcanes, and feel a little more interactive. Every 3rd attack with your melee weapon drains 2/4/6% of the enemy's maximum health, and restores yours by the same amount. The final rank on the Weapon Arcanes should be really special. On Kill: Enemy explodes for dealing X% of the damage they took in the last 3 seconds to nearby enemies, and restoring that much health split among you and your allies.

Then perhaps we can go even further, and add some kind of classification to these Arcanes, and have synergy bonuses when paired with other weapon arcanes. So if you have a Cold Weapon Arcane and an Electric weapon arcane equipped on a weapon, you might get Bonus Effects like, killing an enemy causes nearby enemies to be pulled to their location, or increase Magnetic damage by a small amount.

This way, players will be able to use the weapons they want to play with, and if RNG awards you with loot you have already obtained, you can put it to use instead of having a duplicate weapon in your inventory.

 

So, not making any promises here, just voicing a few ideas to join in the discussion. I'm pretty busy, so I won't be able to reply to often in this thread, but I have it bookmarked and will read up on comments often. There's some good ideas here, but I think we can go bigger and better. Sometime in the future (probably sometime next year), I'll collate the ideas and turn them into a pitch for the powers that be.

 

Cheers,
Draice.

 

I am honored that you have taken interest in this concept and I do agree on changing around the Accessibility of this mission type to free. Indeed that this concept has a potential to be even bigger, but there is also some that believe this concept could also apply to the Dark Sector.

 

I will continue to work on some kinks in the Sandbox Thread.

[MokutoBunshi]

Glad this got noticed by the devs....my job here is done.

 

]\'[

[FoxFX]

On 10/8/2016 at 1:37 PM, MokutoBunshi said:

Glad this got noticed by the devs....my job here is done.

 

]\'[

Thank you again for your support

[Relentless.Zen]

Why is this thread dying? Its a great idea and i dont know why people do not discuss about this. People keep crying about no real Endgame or hard enough Missions but when a good idea like this gets published it just gets ignored o.O Well yeah i really like it, the idea has my full support!

[FoxFX]

8 hours ago, --Q--UmadcausebaD said:

Why is this thread dying? Its a great idea and i dont know why people do not discuss about this. People keep crying about no real Endgame or hard enough Missions but when a good idea like this gets published it just gets ignored o.O Well yeah i really like it, the idea has my full support!

 

I happens. I can't help it, but perhaps maybe I can save it. I will see if I can get this Thread to be recognized in the Mission Idea Sandbox Sticky Forum. But after that, I dunno how things will go from there.

[Cyandana]

After reading through your ideas and giving it more thought - my realization is that stronghold is very much akin to Diablo 3's adventure mode. Except that your "nodes" are the "bounties" and your "boss room" are the "rifts".

http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Adventure_Mode

* The prefix system from D3 is more or less what you have written up for eximus units. D3 may have " Shocking - Arcane - Fast - LIfe Stealing : Skeletal Warrior " whilst using your system we may end up with " Stonefoot - Stalwart - Explosive - Striker : Heavy Gunner " . I do not recall if your writeup allowed enemies to have more than one buff.

* In your system the tiles are effectively the bounties - except in the current write up new content is assumed (not old starchart missions), and there is no additional step after completing the boss.

--

Take a look and refine your ideas? I feel like something like your idea/D3 adventure mode is SUPER doable in WF and would do much to fill the void :) 

 

 

[FoxFX]

1 hour ago, Cyandana said:

After reading through your ideas and giving it more thought - my realization is that stronghold is very much akin to Diablo 3's adventure mode. Except that your "nodes" are the "bounties" and your "boss room" are the "rifts".

http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Adventure_Mode

* The prefix system from D3 is more or less what you have written up for eximus units. D3 may have " Shocking - Arcane - Fast - LIfe Stealing : Skeletal Warrior " whilst using your system we may end up with " Stonefoot - Stalwart - Explosive - Striker : Heavy Gunner " . I do not recall if your writeup allowed enemies to have more than one buff.

* In your system the tiles are effectively the bounties - except in the current write up new content is assumed (not old starchart missions), and there is no additional step after completing the boss.

--

Take a look and refine your ideas? I feel like something like your idea/D3 adventure mode is SUPER doable in WF and would do much to fill the void :) 

 

 

Someone in a forum long ago has pointed some similarities of Diablo Series before. I will check out more in this Adventure Mode and see what I can come up with.

[CrisFenix]

I like the "dungeon concept" (as I call this) that is present in other mmo games and I think Warframe should have this type of mission:

The enemy level and type obligates to form a squad with high MR players, one of them support 

Where: in a maze, or a big place, or a set of different scenarios connected with a big (and tall) boss in the end

The boss: is in a room wich needs four Keys to enter. What boss, damage and mechanics are, is unknown. Killing a boss gives you

a good amount of xp 

Players will need to:

- Search the place for four hidden caches with a key inside each one (Sabotage)

- Eliminate all enemies (clean the place) to enter the boss room (Exterminate)

- Once inside the boss room, players need to kill the boss (Assassination)

Boss mechanics and type of damage inflicted: should be different each time you do the mission:

- Boss spawn hordes of enemies and players try to counter using their air support charges (turret) and shield ospreys (sindicate)

once a defined number of hordes ends, players attack the boss and finish him (Defense and Assassination)

- Boss will focus meele, will run the entire room and attack players constantly (intimidating). When he attacks a player he sucks all the player's energy,

but when other players hit him, he drops energy. If players avoid the boss (get too far) he regenerates his (big) shield    

- Boss wil be an archwing with warframe abilities: Prism (Mirage), Radial Blind (Excalibur), Invisibility and Decoy (Loki). Sometimes, he will

blind the entire team and hide behind wreckage to regenerate their shield (map will reveal his position). After that he will back invisible and attack players.

If players disable their shield he looses all warframe abilities and shield for once, but he has increased life too   

 

But for this mission work for high MR players as an end game we need good drops from bosses, good items to please high level players. 

Prime parts already drop from fissures, mods from the vault at Derelict. Only thing I can think are arcanes or more prime parts

[CrisFenix]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 10:59 PM, FoxFX said:

Someone in a forum long ago has pointed some similarities of Diablo Series before. I will check out more in this Adventure Mode and see what I can come up with.

Man, Diablo 3 is obsolete for years now. Blizzard tried to develop Diablo 4 but Path of Exile kicked their asses for good with tons of modifications and types of loot..

Path of Exile should be mentioned, as Diablo 3 is abandoned right now. I like Diablos's history

[Hwanung]

23 hours ago, CrisFenix said:

Man, Diablo 3 is obsolete for years now. Blizzard tried to develop Diablo 4 but Path of Exile kicked their asses for good with tons of modifications and types of loot..

Path of Exile should be mentioned, as Diablo 3 is abandoned right now. I like Diablos's history

Please cite some sources, none of this is true from what I can google. Lmao.

[CrisFenix]

12 hours ago, Hwanung said:

Please cite some sources, none of this is true from what I can google. Lmao.

I think you dont know nothing about the games you are talking about

Maybe you need to play the two games and compare the player base and features, as I did.

Check Rhykker and ZiggyD at YT

 

Edited October 15, 2016 by CrisFenix

[Hwanung]

On 10/15/2016 at 3:07 AM, CrisFenix said:

I think you dont know nothing about the games you are talking about

Maybe you need to play the two games and compare the player base and features, as I did.

Check Rhykker and ZiggyD at YT

 

"Man, Diablo 3 is obsolete for years now. Blizzard tried to develop Diablo 4 but Path of Exile kicked their asses for good with tons of modifications and types of loot..

Path of Exile should be mentioned, as Diablo 3 is abandoned right now. I like Diablos's history"

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1. You're not qualified to make these sorts of assumptions, you don't have access to the statistics that might render your claims factual.

2. You assume that people haven't played both games, pretty big no-no here.

3. Your only references are two YouTubers.

 

 

[Guest]

On 9/23/2016 at 10:23 AM, FoxFX said:

A mission where players will NOT be able to know what type of mission they will get themselves into.

Just for that I'd assume and expect most people to use a Loki since spy missions are a thing.