[Mission Idea] In response to Veteran Players Wanting a Challenge: Stronghold Mission

[FoxFX]

4 hours ago, Madho said:

Just for that I'd assume and expect most people to use a Loki since spy missions are a thing.

 

I have made some major changes in the Sandbox Thread of this concept. Some tasks players will need to to do in each of the rooms won't require much of a Spy-esque mission. For now, think of this as mixing in dungeon crawler gameplay and Warframe's fast-paced gameplay. There will be fighting, you will be putting your hard-worked gear to the test, and you and your group will need to prepare for what is coming up next.

[CrisFenix]

On ‎16‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 6:15 PM, Hwanung said:

"Man, Diablo 3 is obsolete for years now. Blizzard tried to develop Diablo 4 but Path of Exile kicked their asses for good with tons of modifications and types of loot..

Path of Exile should be mentioned, as Diablo 3 is abandoned right now. I like Diablos's history"

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1. You're not qualified to make these sorts of assumptions, you don't have access to the statistics that might render your claims factual.

2. You assume that people haven't played both games, pretty big no-no here.

3. Your only references are two YouTubers.

 

 

Kid, when you know something you dont ask for another person explain to you! xD

If you dont know these youtubers, you dont play these games. If you dont play, you dont have knowledge or arguments

to disqualify my informations. I have high MR chars on both games, you dont. I play PoE in a daily basis, you dont. I see streams on twitch

with thousands of players complaining about both games, you dont. I read the forums of both games, you dont. 

These are my references, what are yours? 

You dont play these games, so you dont know nothing about this two at the moment, and you want to discuss with me?

Next time you discuss in a forum make sure you do know what are you talking about

Edited October 18, 2016 by CrisFenix
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[FoxFX]

I'm sorry if this thread has caused some conflicts. I just wanted some support on this Mission idea and everything about it.

 

Though I still can use some ideas for the SANDBOX THREAD as I am currently brainstorming fair but challenging Eximus units to be added in.

[AcesZeph]

So glad I found this thread. Really great idea. Not sure if I should post this here since the other thread, but for rewards, I'm hoping for augments to older weapons. Not augment mods, but stuff to make them relevant again. I have a collection of potatoed old weapons (potato on Boar... No, not the primed version, though I also have that potatoed... Let that sink in...) Like stuff that would allow you to buff them with a hard cap, to make them viable alternatives to newer, power creep weapons. Although it's probably something that will receive an overhaul in the future. For the stronghold mechanics, I'm only hoping that they can make the enemies smart enough to take adavntage of the new eximus abilities. I think I saw heal pulse there. So something like ranged enemies will then flock around the heal pulse guy. Imagine bombards around that. Fun times to be had, I'm sure. XD

[FoxFX]

11 hours ago, AcesZeph said:

So glad I found this thread. Really great idea. Not sure if I should post this here since the other thread, but for rewards, I'm hoping for augments to older weapons. Not augment mods, but stuff to make them relevant again. I have a collection of potatoed old weapons (potato on Boar... No, not the primed version, though I also have that potatoed... Let that sink in...) Like stuff that would allow you to buff them with a hard cap, to make them viable alternatives to newer, power creep weapons. Although it's probably something that will receive an overhaul in the future. For the stronghold mechanics, I'm only hoping that they can make the enemies smart enough to take adavntage of the new eximus abilities. I think I saw heal pulse there. So something like ranged enemies will then flock around the heal pulse guy. Imagine bombards around that. Fun times to be had, I'm sure. XD

 

I guess more Augments wouldn't hurt at all, but as for which Augments that will be up for [DE] to decide.

[Guest]

On 10/18/2016 at 2:44 AM, FoxFX said:

For now, think of this as mixing in dungeon crawler gameplay and Warframe's fast-paced gameplay. There will be fighting, you will be putting your hard-worked gear to the test, and you and your group will need to prepare for what is coming up next.

I saw that your enemy levels reach level 60, and I assume that you know everything goes to hell when enemies reaches level 45-50. This will create the exact same problem with Sorties, so I suggest tuning it down to 40 max. Also, I've read the original sandbox concept and there are a few fundamental flaws I would like to address. 

1. The utility rooms are mere jokes. For trap rooms, you receive a debuff, and that's it. This simply enhances the players' feelings about the game throwing cheap and lame things at them just to add to an artificial difficulty,as if we haven't had enough of that with poorly designed bosses such as Sargas Ruk, or sortie limitations which are completely arbitrary and gives near zero counterplay against some of them in addition to not enriching player experience. For treasure rooms, if it's going to be adding something valuable, people will blame others for taking the shortcut room, similar to the conflicts syndicate medallion hunters and speed runners are facing constantly. If it's not at all valuable, it'll just be as meaningless as any other loot room, and you get those from regular runs.

2. I really don't want to fight poorly designed bosses on every single end of the dungeon. Please, just no.

3. Why are we not allowed to play solo?

[FoxFX]

On 10/20/2016 at 8:43 AM, Madho said:

I saw that your enemy levels reach level 60, and I assume that you know everything goes to hell when enemies reaches level 45-50. This will create the exact same problem with Sorties, so I suggest tuning it down to 40 max. Also, I've read the original sandbox concept and there are a few fundamental flaws I would like to address. 

1. The utility rooms are mere jokes. For trap rooms, you receive a debuff, and that's it. This simply enhances the players' feelings about the game throwing cheap and lame things at them just to add to an artificial difficulty,as if we haven't had enough of that with poorly designed bosses such as Sargas Ruk, or sortie limitations which are completely arbitrary and gives near zero counterplay against some of them in addition to not enriching player experience. For treasure rooms, if it's going to be adding something valuable, people will blame others for taking the shortcut room, similar to the conflicts syndicate medallion hunters and speed runners are facing constantly. If it's not at all valuable, it'll just be as meaningless as any other loot room, and you get those from regular runs.

2. I really don't want to fight poorly designed bosses on every single end of the dungeon. Please, just no.

3. Why are we not allowed to play solo?

 

The concept of the Stronghold Mission is meant for high level and veteran players much like the Sortie and Trials are. That being said, there does not seem to be many players or any of the people that posted in this thread that have issues contending against enemies around the level 60s.

There will be more explanations on the trap rooms, but part of the mechanics of the trap rooms might function in a similar fashion to the Hive Mission trap mechanics and more.

The core mechanics of the rooms in Stronghold Missions are meant to be a new twist to endless missions like Survival. The major difference is that when you complete the room, players will have the opportunity to decide which room they will choose to go to next and doing so also places them in a new tileset. So for now, all players will be traveling together and entering rooms.

Keep in mind that Stronghold will not allow players to use Gears in the mission and they will need to be mindful on their ammo usage. Of course enemies will drop ammo and other resources and enough to continue on, the Treasure Rooms will have a high supply of them and some rare rewards.

I did mention there being bosses in the Stronghold, but I did not specify which bosses players would face off. I do no have plans yet to bring in bosses like Sargas Ruk or Lech Krill into this Stronghold, but for which bosses the players will face I will specify soon enough. There might be an opportunity however to add in enemies like the Rathum/Index Event.

I can always change the member requirements to allow solo play that is not a problem at all.

 

You mentioned this suggested mission type to have the same problems of Sorties, but you didn't appear to point out what those issues you have with it are. I figure it is the enemy scaling and the difficulty/reward ratio you have some problems with. This mission, just like the previous endless mission, is meant to reward players the more they continue to venture into the stronghold while providing the difficulty for it.

 

If you have any other problems on the details of the Stronghold you are free to address it, but make sure you do so in the Stronghold as it is always being updated and changed around.

[Guest]

On 10/22/2016 at 0:37 AM, FoxFX said:

That being said, there does not seem to be many players or any of the people that posted in this thread that have issues contending against enemies around the level 60s.

It's not exactly "do the players have issue dealing with high level enemies", but rather "do players feel engaging enough when dealing with high level enemies". The play sessions that I find the most enriching are enemies that are level 25-30, giving me a sense of being a super-solider with high tech shields and exoskeleton-like suit, I can fight my enemies with relative ease without rapidly casting, yet still require a certain degree of caution as enemies can still deal the killing blow if I don't pay sufficient attention. Anything above the level would simply destroy immersion as crude Grineer weaponry overpower something as powerful as Orokin tech with a single sniper shot or even a butchering knife, and anything below the level would ruin any difficulty associated with the gameplay. It's fun to play a game when you know the playing fields are leveled to be fair. Meanwhile, difficulty doesn't necessarily have to come from enemy level, but rather the stronghold itself. Turrets and ramparts can be mounted in certain areas, while the player can have multiple choices to counter it, such as deploying a shield, jumping high up and shoot the Grineer controlling the rampart, or take a shortcut and sneak up from behind the Grineer and kill him. Players can get a rewarding experience in the process, and obtain great rewards while doing so. The reason why endless missions fail hard at delivering a satisfying experience for some people would be the ridiculous enemy scaling to the point where one-shotting is inevitable and players must spam constantly to survive, making missions 4 hour grindfests instead of enjoying the mission itself, a core reason why Sorties isn't really something I'd consider "fun". It's the stronghold that should scale, not enemy level. 

Huge textwall and I'm on mobile. I'll stop here for now. 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Guest

[FoxFX]

13 hours ago, Madho said:

It's not exactly "do the players have issue dealing with high level enemies", but rather "do players feel engaging enough when dealing with high level enemies". The play sessions that I find the most enriching are enemies that are level 25-30, giving me a sense of being a super-solider with high tech shields and exoskeleton-like suit, I can fight my enemies with relative ease without rapidly casting, yet still require a certain degree of caution as enemies can still deal the killing blow if I don't pay sufficient attention. Anything above the level would simply destroy immersion as crude Grineer weaponry overpower something as powerful as Orokin tech with a single sniper shot or even a butchering knife, and anything below the level would ruin any difficulty associated with the gameplay. It's fun to play a game when you know the playing fields are leveled to be fair. Meanwhile, difficulty doesn't necessarily have to come from enemy level, but rather the stronghold itself. Turrets and ramparts can be mounted in certain areas, while the player can have multiple choices to counter it, such as deploying a shield, jumping high up and shoot the Grineer controlling the rampart, or take a shortcut and sneak up from behind the Grineer and kill him. Players can get a rewarding experience in the process, and obtain great rewards while doing so. The reason why endless missions fail hard at delivering a satisfying experience for some people would be the ridiculous enemy scaling to the point where one-shotting is inevitable and players must spam constantly to survive, making missions 4 hour grindfests instead of enjoying the mission itself, a core reason why Sorties isn't really something I'd consider "fun". It's the stronghold that should scale, not enemy level. 

Huge textwall and I'm on mobile. I'll stop here for now. 

 

I understand fully on the difficulty enemies at high level pose and I can see why bringing down the enemy level to the 20-40s. The one thing I see that would more or less trivialize a mission like this would be Warframe that have Crowd Control.

 

I am not trying to turn the idea of reducing the level for this mission, but I'd like to see if there is any other person that would agree on this idea as well.

[Guest]

On 10/22/2016 at 0:37 AM, FoxFX said:

 

38 minutes ago, FoxFX said:

The one thing I see that would more or less trivialize a mission like this would be Warframe that have Crowd Control.

Any CC frame can trivialize any mission if the player wants to, regardless of enemy level as everyone is under CC by default. Players would be less likely to use CC frames if they're aware that CC frames themselves are optional in the first place. You can just grab your favorite loadout and play the mission because there wouldn't be a complete dominance of which frame or weapon can complete the dungeon most effectively. There could be a route on top of the designated room, with snipers positioning and keeping an eye out. This effectively revives bows, snipers and special weapons such as Opticor or Ogris, coupled by silencing mods such as Hush. While people with AoE weapons and assault rifles and shotguns deal with swarms of enemies in close proximity on the ground, sniping and parkour can be core mechanics above the ground level. Another route underground can be set up for stealth play, backstabbing enemies without the deliberate need to stay invisible, which is actually more enjoyable than using Loki every single time. All of these do not require CC frames, and you wouldn't be constantly picking "the right tool for the job" as you do in Sorties. Grabbed that Soma? Mow down waves of enemies from a distance. Got a Paris? Snipe Ballistas on a ledge while wall latching. Melee only? Get in the underground labyrinth and silently murder everyone. At least that's how I think it could turn out to put a stop to weapon type and frame dominance, but that's just me bantering. 

[Yzjdriel]

This looks interesting.  +1

 

I'm curious to see if this goes anywhere.

[FoxFX]

2 hours ago, Yzjdriel said:

This looks interesting.  +1

 

I'm curious to see if this goes anywhere.

 

I am still on the sandbox thread working more into the Mission Type.

[FoxFX]

Thank you all for the support for the Stronghold Mission concept. I am still in the sandbox thread working in the mechanics for this Mission Type.

[Yzjdriel]

On 10/18/2016 at 2:39 PM, CrisFenix said:

If you dont know these youtubers, you dont play these games.

I can't even BEGIN to explain how WRONG this is.

I don't watch any Warframe youtubers, and I'm Mastery Rank 18 - I've played all the missions, and only have a bunch of ClanTech weapons left to use - formas don't grow on trees anymore, and I'm still using them to reset frames and weapons.

To say that I don't play a game just because I've never heard of a youtuber about whom I give literally zero cares (read: f*cks) is both insulting and asinine.

[MokutoBunshi]

still hoping this goes far.

 

]\'[

[FoxFX]

On 11/9/2016 at 2:24 PM, MokutoBunshi said:

still hoping this goes far.

 

]\'[

Hoping as well, but as of now TWW Hype is overwhelming everything.

[MokutoBunshi]

3 hours ago, FoxFX said:

Hoping as well, but as of now TWW Hype is overwhelming everything.

Ain't that much hype considering :P you know, its been months coming. Also Americans have bigger concerns.... like the future president.

 

]\'[

[CrisFenix]

On ‎09‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 1:47 PM, Yzjdriel said:

I can't even BEGIN to explain how WRONG this is.

I don't watch any Warframe youtubers, and I'm Mastery Rank 18 - I've played all the missions, and only have a bunch of ClanTech weapons left to use - formas don't grow on trees anymore, and I'm still using them to reset frames and weapons.

To say that I don't play a game just because I've never heard of a youtuber about whom I give literally zero cares (read: f*cks) is both insulting and asinine.

Everyone that 'really' plays these two games know these youtubers,

because we players need to learn things, you know?

So, search on youtube for tips or how to do a high level thing is what most of players do.

Its not about care, its about to stay updated about the game. 

 

Formas dont grow in trees, are you sure? Because if you do meso or neo relics you get a bunch of them!

 

[FoxFX]

Working on an excerpt for Trials after the release of TWW

[FoxFX]

Starting to look up all reviews and suggestions made about the Assault Mission. I had keen interest after running one myself and a part of me sees some similarity into missions like HIVE that players tend to avoid.

[MokutoBunshi]

On 11/27/2016 at 4:54 PM, FoxFX said:

Starting to look up all reviews and suggestions made about the Assault Mission. I had keen interest after running one myself and a part of me sees some similarity into missions like HIVE that players tend to avoid.

I hope they will use some of your segestions the same way they low-key copied atlas and zypher :)

 

]\'[

[Soketsu]

I hope also the rewards will be interresting because it's really the only thing who make me want try to go even further beyond

[FoxFX]

On 11/28/2016 at 7:21 PM, Soketsu said:

I hope also the rewards will be interresting because it's really the only thing who make me want try to go even further beyond

With the release of Riven Mods, they could be a potential reward for Stronghold Missions. However, I would like to later post an idea for the Riven Mod system as a whole.

[Soketsu]

6 hours ago, FoxFX said:

With the release of Riven Mods, they could be a potential reward for Stronghold Missions. However, I would like to later post an idea for the Riven Mod system as a whole.

There so much thing to fix to riven mods, the RNG, the possibility to get sentinel weapons, negative dmg stats... Oo

[MokutoBunshi]

2 hours ago, Soketsu said:

There so much thing to fix to riven mods, the RNG, the possibility to get sentinel weapons, negative dmg stats... Oo

negative stats are USEFUL. there was a vid a youtuber made where their ally would get radiated on purpose then get hit by a negative damage and HEAL.

 

]\'[