Why is max energy decreasing my energy..

[Update]

7 hours ago, Icarican_Justicar said:

Energy isn't infinite and that is the problem, energy no matter how efficient you are on things runs out and energy is RNG based I can go without a energy globe for 3 minutes I run out of energy in about 2 minutes with an efficient build I just wanted that small leg up and thought a primed flow.. would help since it seems logical but it seems that 80p was wasted.  WTS R7 primed flow 145p x.x 

Go For Arcane Energize

40% Orb give you 125 Energy :D

Edited September 22, 2016 by NoticeMeValkyr-senpai

[Bibliothekar]

3 hours ago, F8ted said:

but how did it take until rank 7 on a primed flow to figure it out?

Well, until (mod) rank 5 there's no difference between Flow and Primed Flow. And depending on how much Endo and credits you have, it's bumped up a few ranks beyond that in one go.

[Icarian_Justicar]

5 hours ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

Yes they should've explained it since as it stands right now it isn't explained at all, but i'd say this system is better than what you proposed.

Let's say your normal energy cap is 150, the basic starting energy would be 50 imo, but what happens when you play as ivara/saryn p with a primed flow? They're max energy could go to around 700 so by that rule they would have around 230ish starting energy. I'd call this unbalanced (especially in low to mid level content)

Base energy + 70 isn't 230ish sorry, its at most 140 and saryn drinks energy like its coke but nice try at saying this idea is un-balanced its just under double your starting energy now if your saryn p with a primed flow.. and if you have a primed flow your not exactly new to the game, and balance in this game doesn't seem to be a big issue atm. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Icarican_Justicar

[Meliq]

 

4 hours ago, AntoineFlemming said:

Um, is it bad that I never knew about this feature?

I never knew either.  I guess GI Joe is no longer my friend.

[Meliq]

4 minutes ago, Icarican_Justicar said:

Base energy + 70 isn't 230ish sorry, its at most 140 and saryn drinks energy like its coke~ 

Zenkurik with only energy overload and Carrier.  All the energy you will EVER need.  I use quick thinking because I literally NEVER run out.  Though Rage + Quick Thinking was awesome (They need to bring that back it was so awesomely abusable)

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

11 hours ago, Airwolfen said:

For every unused mod point you gain 5 energy. So the more of those points you use the less starting energy you will get.

I've played for years and never knew that

[Icarian_Justicar]

10 minutes ago, Meliq said:

Zenkurik with only energy overload and Carrier.  All the energy you will EVER need.  I use quick thinking because I literally NEVER run out.  Though Rage + Quick Thinking was awesome (They need to bring that back it was so awesomely abusable)

Zenkurik doesn't work with channeled abilities and I don't have the 300k + exp that it might need for that all I needed was a bit of starting energy so it wasn't so RNG based, not talking about spending money on arcanes - which aren't explained as well so I don't have much of idea what these are I can only guess something you attach to something - and I wasn't forced to go and get everything for energy regen I don't need that all I was looking for was to start with 110 power. Which thanks to this advice I turned my primed flow which I sold into a damaged flow and got that starting power and now I am running the farming mission fine. In 90% of missions I never get to max energy so having a 200% + energy pool where I am always sitting at 100-200 energy never going over it is a bit over kill.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Icarican_Justicar

[Meliq]

Just now, Icarican_Justicar said:

Zenkurik doesn't work with channeled abilities and I don't have the 300k + exp that it might need for that all I needed was a bit of starting energy so it wasn't so RNG based, not talking about spending money on arcanes - which aren't explained as well so I don't have much of idea what these are I can only guess something you attach to something - and I wasn't forced to go and get everything for energy regen I don't need that all I was looking for was to start with 110 power. Which thanks to this advice I turned my primed flow which I sold into a damaged flow and got that starting power and now I am running the farming mission fine.  

LOL - an arcane goes on your stayada or your helment.  There are so many ways to get get energy - you could even use energy siphon.  You are correct that Zenurik does not work while the ability is active.  However with a large enough power pool and carrier you can keep the draining ability up for quite a while. 

 

It's all about tradeoffs.  I prefer to use a pancake and then generate power to gimping myself longer term. the ability to hold 500 energy is more useful to me than starting with 50 energy... 

 

Choices...

[Icarian_Justicar]

7 minutes ago, Meliq said:

LOL - an arcane goes on your stayada or your helment.  There are so many ways to get get energy - you could even use energy siphon.  You are correct that Zenurik does not work while the ability is active.  However with a large enough power pool and carrier you can keep the draining ability up for quite a while. 

 

It's all about tradeoffs.  I prefer to use a pancake and then generate power to gimping myself longer term. the ability to hold 500 energy is more useful to me than starting with 50 energy... 

 

Choices...

its not ' gimping ' when you don't need that much energy or ever have that much energy in the first place, I agree people like nekros goes well with primed flow because hes all about max energy, and again Energy siphon does not work with channeled abilities, but yes starting energy for the stuff I am doing > max energy because I will NEVER get max energy maybe once in a blue moon because #RNG. Also in most missions you won't be full energy unless your HP nekros I have seen in my 2 months of playing unless you have a EV trinity then max energy doesn't mean S#&$ because you have un-limited energy with her.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Icarican_Justicar

[Inarticulate]

Back in my day, video games came with instruction manuals that explained no more than the simple controls and games didn't come with tutorials at all and if you wanted information at all, you had to ask your parents to drive you to Walmart and spend their money to buy you a player's guide.

And we were happy.

Kids these days have wikis containing virtually all of the collective knowledge of the player base accessible from their phones anywhere for free and still complain that the game doesn't explain anything. Go figure.

[Meliq]

Just now, Icarican_Justicar said:

its not ' gimping ' when you don't need that much energy or ever have that much energy in the first place, I agree people like nekros goes well with primed flow because hes all about max energy, and again Energy siphon does not work with channeled abilities, but yes starting energy for the stuff I am doing > max energy because I will NEVER get max energy maybe once in a blue moon because #RNG. 

So - your power pool works with a tap and drain type of idea. so when you are using your power you drain...  and when you run out and have to turn it off (because like you ran out which you obvioulsy do) then it starts building up on it's own like without RNG ya'know?

 

if you use energy siphon and zenurik that means you are back up to a useable level within 20 seconds... (5 per second gives you 100 energy)...  if you add carrier in then you get all that RNG love as well.

This is before you start talking about QT (which stops all energt generation as well)  which gives you a huge health buffer by transitioning damage from your last 2 hp to your energy pool. 

This is why so many people use Zenurik - it's incredibly OP and synergizes well with everything.  Throw in an equlibrium and you can really see some synergy.  Genrally speaking, trading a long term advantage for a short term gain is bad strategy - however it sounds like you have mitigated the cost so that you do not feel it - though if you were to change your paradigm you would likley never go back. 

[Icarian_Justicar]

2 minutes ago, Meliq said:

So - your power pool works with a tap and drain type of idea. so when you are using your power you drain...  and when you run out and have to turn it off (because like you ran out which you obvioulsy do) then it starts building up on it's own like without RNG ya'know?

 

if you use energy siphon and zenurik that means you are back up to a useable level within 20 seconds... (5 per second gives you 100 energy)...  if you add carrier in then you get all that RNG love as well.

This is before you start talking about QT (which stops all energt generation as well)  which gives you a huge health buffer by transitioning damage from your last 2 hp to your energy pool. 

This is why so many people use Zenurik - it's incredibly OP and synergizes well with everything.  Throw in an equlibrium and you can really see some synergy.  Genrally speaking, trading a long term advantage for a short term gain is bad strategy - however it sounds like you have mitigated the cost so that you do not feel it - though if you were to change your paradigm you would likley never go back. 

Problem with that Idea, is I don't want to turn it off and I have solved the problem its a solo infested survival mission when it turns off swarmed, and your talking about needless mods I don't really need when I already have all my mod slots taken by critical mods like stretch and efficiency for ember and maybe if I spent all that time leveling zenurik of course I won't go back but my issue isn't about ' waiting for the tap to re-full ' its that lasting till RNG finally gives me some energy again which is around the 100 power mark the problem was once it turns off the 25 power cost of turning it back on.  

[Meliq]

Just now, Icarican_Justicar said:

Problem with that Idea, is I don't want to turn it off and I have solved the problem its a solo infested survival mission when it turns off swarmed, and your talking about needless mods I don't really need when I already have all my mod slots taken by critical mods like stretch and efficiency for ember and maybe if I spent all that time leveling zenurik of course I won't go back but my issue isn't about ' waiting for the tap to re-full ' its that lasting till RNG finally gives me some energy again which is around the 100 power mark the problem was once it turns off the 25 power cost of turning it back on.  

it's not either or - it could be both.  AND the only mod that you would need would go into the spot you put your flow on the ember. LOL

[F8ted]

You are very new to this game. You have received advice from many that your perception of the energy system is flawed. You ended up switching from Primed Flow to a Damaged Flow because your faulty view of energy has you assuming that starting with 45 extra energy is better than holding an extra 200-300 energy. Sorry but.... Watch some guides. Read the wiki. Do something before you do something else that is as absurd as this. Primed Flow is as much a "required" mod as streamline is. I have 19 Warframes that run it. Go to the Market, go to gear, buy a "Team Energy Restore" and build it. You will never have to worry about "starting" energy again. Even solo. Without swapping any mods.

5 hours ago, Bibliothekar said:

Well, until (mod) rank 5 there's no difference between Flow and Primed Flow. And depending on how much Endo and credits you have, it's bumped up a few ranks beyond that in one go.

Cool story bro. Still how could one not notice that NONE OF THESE AFFECT STARTING ENERGY. Depending on Endo and Credits..... Oh boy. He's not going to have enough of either to level it up. He's been playing for about 2 months. Stop this absurdity. New players need real help, not hyperbole's.

[Gelkor]

5 hours ago, AntoineFlemming said:

Um, is it bad that I never knew about this feature?

Nah, I think I learned about it like, 3 months ago when someone made a thread about it., and I was like "How have I never noticed this before?"

Edited September 22, 2016 by Gelkor

[Icarian_Justicar]

33 minutes ago, F8ted said:

You are very new to this game. You have received advice from many that your perception of the energy system is flawed. You ended up switching from Primed Flow to a Damaged Flow because your faulty view of energy has you assuming that starting with 45 extra energy is better than holding an extra 200-300 energy. Sorry but.... Watch some guides. Read the wiki. Do something before you do something else that is as absurd as this. Primed Flow is as much a "required" mod as streamline is. I have 19 Warframes that run it. Go to the Market, go to gear, buy a "Team Energy Restore" and build it. You will never have to worry about "starting" energy again. Even solo. Without swapping any mods.

Cool story bro. Still how could one not notice that NONE OF THESE AFFECT STARTING ENERGY. Depending on Endo and Credits..... Oh boy. He's not going to have enough of either to level it up. He's been playing for about 2 months. Stop this absurdity. New players need real help, not hyperbole's.

Faulty view of energy? No where did I state primed flow is bad, nor did I say a high level flow isn't NEEDED, I am saying for speed runs of 5 minutes of survival for credits starting energy > max energy, if I was doing a 20 minute run it might be better but I AM NOT, at this point starting energy is better then potential max energy I will never reach, and when your doing 30 + runs for credits I am not going to spend credits to do so. Again and again I've said this has fixed my problem with the damaged flow and I am doing the run without any energy problems now, but oh no.. this can't be how can a damaged flow solve my energy problems! I must be a noob that knows nothing oh gosh! - add sarcasm where needed - .

 

I Still believe the system of max energy helps with starting energy would be better then ' you need this, this go make this do this! ' if its that easy to get starting energy why would making you have an extra 70 energy max END GAME be a problem? If it helps newer players with an extra little bit of energy and end game players won't give a rats &#! because they already had this. Its not game breaking, its more logical because why the hell would a caster or warframe go in to a death battle with just enough to do 1-2 spells, newer players even older players are like - sigh - forma.. re-level the same item 10 times doing the same thing.. over and over make it that cp is just that cp for mods and starting energy is based on your energy pool. 

Also question if warframes get something for extra un-used cp what does pets, sentinels, weapons get? Same logic applies. 

 

Edit : and my point is still valid that no-one knew about this feature since its not really logical, it might be logical if cp was re-named but would just cause more questions like why does it effect your starting energy but not your max energy if it drains energy, or even your energy per second. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Icarican_Justicar

[F8ted]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Team_Energy_Restore

[F8ted]

You are new, and came to the forums for help. You choose to focus on complaining about the mechanics of a game you don't even know the options for yet. You have been told by many in this thread how to reach incredible surpluses of energy. Despite the advice of veteran players, you sold one of the best mods in the game because of simple confusion. Had you taken a moment to listen after asking, instead of pretending this is something that you have the experience and capability of arguing, you would still have at least a rank 7 Primed Flow, and have a totally new experience with the game as you are able to use abilities like you never have before. 

Also for what it's worth, this should probably be in Players helping Players, but again, we understand because you are new. 

[Icarian_Justicar]

8 minutes ago, F8ted said:

You are new, and came to the forums for help. You choose to focus on complaining about the mechanics of a game you don't even know the options for yet. You have been told by many in this thread how to reach incredible surpluses of energy. Despite the advice of veteran players, you sold one of the best mods in the game because of simple confusion. Had you taken a moment to listen after asking, instead of pretending this is something that you have the experience and capability of arguing, you would still have at least a rank 7 Primed Flow, and have a totally new experience with the game as you are able to use abilities like you never have before. 

Also for what it's worth, this should probably be in Players helping Players, but again, we understand because you are new. 

Not confusion at all, I sold it because it didn't fit my needs and I don't need a primed flow in  the whole 2 months of me playing I never go ' dam I wish I had a higher energy pool! ' because I never ever reach it and if I did the 500 or so energy I had is enough, and they've told me other ways that WILL NOT fix the problem I was having energy restores might have but I am not going to spend credits on a credit farm other then that they're saying          ' throw plat at the game! ' this post is a general discussion about a topic of starting energy and obviously people needed it because 3/4 of the people I've asked who have played 1 year + didn't even know about this feature, and 2 months isn't exactly ' new ' and as people have said people who have played 2 + years didn't know about this lol. 

This forum post just highlights the bigger problem in warframe that the guides and stuff miss out core features of the game as well as don't tell you as much as you should, I shouldn't need to research or google a basic thing of the game when its not even in their own guides. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Icarican_Justicar

[F8ted]

9 minutes ago, Icarican_Justicar said:

Not confusion at all, I sold it because it didn't fit my needs and I don't need a primed flow in  the whole 2 months of me playing I never go ' dam I wish I had a higher energy pool! ' because I never ever reach it and if I did the 500 or so energy I had is enough, and they've told me other ways that WILL NOT fix the problem I was having energy restores might have but I am not going to spend credits on a credit farm, and 2 months isn't exactly ' new ' and as people have said people who have played 2 + years didn't know about this lol. 

Oh I am simply talking about the length of time you have spent playing the many facets of Warframe. 2 months, you couldn't have even got bored waiting for the new update yet. You are now arguing the viability of energy restores. The cost vs gain of the restores is not in question on anyone who has had the opportunity to use one. If you are NA West, I could hop in your next game, place one on the ground for you, and tip my hat to a happy customer. Consumables are meant to be used in games. This is no different than the "potions" of the games you were playing back in July, except in this game we share. It takes a lot of time to gain access to alternative options, such as Zenurik, so the restores are the best for you. You have not yet spent enough time to have other options. 

Edit: The difference on starting energy is negligible. That is how people of 2+ years don't know it. It makes 0 difference. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by F8ted
Emphasis bold

[Tizodd]

I skimmed through the first page and noticed people arguing with the OP telling him how the system makes sense.  Logically, the current system doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  Logically, it should work the way the op thought it worked.

One would think (not Warframe specific, but any game that has an energy resource system...mana, magic, etc) that a character with 400 of a given energy resource would start with more energy than a character with 50 of that resource.  Warframe decided to handle it differently, but to tell the op it logically makes sense is wrong.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Tizodd

[Icarian_Justicar]

4 minutes ago, F8ted said:

Oh I am simply talking about the length of time you have spent playing the many facets of Warframe. 2 months, you couldn't have even got bored waiting for the new update yet. You are now arguing the viability of energy restores. The cost vs gain of the restores is not in question on anyone who has had the opportunity to use one. If you are NA West, I could hop in your next game, place one on the ground for you, and tip my hat to a happy customer. Consumables are meant to be used in games. This is no different than the "potions" of the games you were playing back in July, except in this game we share. It takes a lot of time to gain access to alternative options, such as Zenurik, so the restores are the best for you. You have not yet spent enough time to have other options. 

Did you just judge how far I am into the game? I have completed all the content apart from the raids which of course you need other people willing to do it and its hard enough finding people to do Rad relic key shares, I have made and earned 90% of warframes in the game and if I could pass all the tests tomorrow be MR15 + but that is not the issue here, the issue is non-information and logic on this one important part of the game speed farming for credits, and I would be spending 1/4 of the farm I get on the medium energy restore ( since I don't have the small one )

Edited September 22, 2016 by Icarican_Justicar

[Gelkor]

4 minutes ago, Tizodd said:

One would think (not Warframe specific, but any game that has an energy resource system...mana, magic, etc) that a character with 400 of a given energy resource would start with more energy than a character with 50 of that resource.  Warframe decided to handle it differently, but to tell the op it logically makes sense is wrong.

To be fair, every other system in Warframe involves base stats, mods that increase health, armor, shields, and energy are based on the base stat of the warframe at rank 0, and not on the modified stat or the stat at max level. So in that regard, it works similar to the other systems in the game. 

In the end, starting energy really doesn't matter much, if anything, and having increased starting energy as a function of how much you've polarized your frame works as a nice little bonus, IMO. Increasing max energy possible just helps for energy efficiency in the long term vis a vis using energy restores, energy orbs, syndicate weapons/mos, Rage, or Trinity.

[F8ted]

3 minutes ago, Tizodd said:

I skimmed through the first page and noticed people arguing with the OP telling him how the system makes sense.  Logically, the current system doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  logically, it should work the way the op thought it worked.

One would think (not Warframe specific, but any game that has an energy resource system...mana, magic, etc) that a character with 400 of a given energy resource would start with more energy than a character with 50 of that resource.  Warframe decided to handle it differently, but to tell the op it logically makes sense is wrong.

Sort of fair. The suggestion that flow and it's ilk increase starting energy is actually a suggestion. However, it says quite clearly "MAX energy" and in no mission in Warframe do you start with your maximum energy. It would be more consistent with other games to start with your maximum energy in a mission. Also, it would avoid confusion among new players. Though logically is a powerful word being misused here. A mod that affected maximum energy in a game that your starting and maximum energy are not equal, logically the mod would not affect your starting energy as they are different variables. 

[Icarian_Justicar]

13 minutes ago, F8ted said:

Sort of fair. The suggestion that flow and it's ilk increase starting energy is actually a suggestion. However, it says quite clearly "MAX energy" and in no mission in Warframe do you start with your maximum energy. It would be more consistent with other games to start with your maximum energy in a mission. Also, it would avoid confusion among new players. Though logically is a powerful word being misused here. A mod that affected maximum energy in a game that your starting and maximum energy are not equal, logically the mod would not affect your starting energy as they are different variables. 

1. it is logical to think that the more max resource you have the more you may start with, it is not logical to think these points we're told are just for mods ARE also for energy.

2. there is games were you don't start off with your max but are given a % of your max so it makes having a higher max more benefiting otherwise having a huge energy pool is only really beneficial in long running missions - which hardly anyone does anymore since the relic system - 

3.  logic is a powerful word and isn't being miss used at all, it is not logical to think the points that we've been hammered into saying that these points are for mods are in-fact also for your energy there is no relation or logic between your starting energy relying on your cp it is a negative since we're told to spend these points, then we get penalized for spending said points, and it doesn't carry over with weapons, pets, or sent's so logic can not be applied saying CP = Starting energy because we get nothing for having extra cp anywhere else.

Logic would be something about your energy gives you your starting energy amount and being that the only thing we can change that has anything to do with energy is max or efficiency it should be something along those lines and if indeed it was logical / common sense people who have played 2 + years didn't know about this feature so it is not ' logical ' 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Icarican_Justicar