The Lotus and Margulis

[Silvus-Sol]

So there are a lot of theories about these two. Some far fetched and others more down to Earth. Some think that there is no connection whatsoever between them. I highly doubt that though, for reasons that will be explained shortly. I have developed my own theory about the connection between these two, and it starts with Natah's mission to gain control of the Tenno.

How does one gain control over another? By force? No, the Orokin tried that and it didn't work. The Tenno resisted and the Orokin were subverted the one person who did exert some influence over the Tenno, Margulis. For her actions Margulis was sentenced to death. This provided Natah with everything she needed, but she had to act quickly. The "mother" of the Tenno was out of the picture, they were lost and vulnerable, looking for a new caretaker. But they wouldn't trust just anyone, not after what the Orokin tried to do to them. Maybe they would trust a familiar face...

Natah could have gotten a sample are Margulis's DNA, from that sample she could have used the Orokin's vast knowledge and facilities for cloning to make herself a copy. This copy would be nothing but a host, with no higher functions of it's own. She could then use that body, that face, to gain the trust of the Tenno and by extension the influence she needed over them.

Before I go any further let me explain what I think Natah is/was. Was she a Sentient made soft and fleshy, so very different from every other sentient we have seen so far? I don't think so. But as an infiltrator meant to go unnoticed, she would have to be different. Smaller, more compact, and non-threatening. Something like this perhaps?

I think that Natah was not of human form, but was and is the headpiece that the Lotus "wears".

So who is that underneath Natah? Who is the body, the face, the voice? That is the copy of Margulis. Natah sat herself upon the copy's head and took control of it. She pilots a body that is not really hers similar to the Tenno who pilot the Warframes. With her disguise complete, she began her work with the Tenno. However, as she worked with them and began to learn about them, her thoughts began to change.

She could never have children of her own, but  before her were beings that thought of her as something she believed impossible, their mother. Not only was she becoming their mother, but the way they both lived through the bodies of others was too similar to ignore. These Tenno... they were her children. It was at that moment that Natah ceased to be and the Lotus was born. No longer just a Sentient mind sitting on a host body, but a fusion of the mind and the body.

The body of Margulis and the headpiece Natah together are the Lotus.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Silvus-Sol

[Gelkor]

Honestly, it's less unsettling than the idea of the Sentients being able to perfectly mimic a specific human's body and voice, because if they could do that, they could have easily taken over the Orokin Empire from within. 

I'm still not exactly sure when or how Lotus became a guide to, or in charge of the Tenno.

The Silver Grove and new Prime Trailers seem to indicate that the Warframe Mandate was under the command of Ballas. So while the Tenno and the Warframes were being deployed in action under Ballas did Natah surreptitiously contact the Tenno and "aid" them in their battles against the Sentient to gain their trust, and then made her case to the Tenno for destroying the Orokin? If so, it's possible that Natah's appearance as Lotus is all an illusion, voice masking to echo Margulis and gain our trust, and imprinting to make us see her as similar to Margulis.

-OR-

Was Natah/Lotus officially and publicly in control of the Tenno?

Perhaps the Tenno didn't respond as well to Ballas's control?

Perhaps he needed someone the Tenno would trust, someone who he knew the Tenno would respond to, and, in his own grief, longed for. 

What if the body you describe was cloned by Ballas originally to be the guide of the Tenno in combat, and unbeknownst to him commandeered by Natah?

[Ryme]

You've realized the truth. Lotus is actually just an Abathur Hat

[Omnipower]

Wow i never really thought that deeply about who Lotus was or even remotely try to think of a connection between her and Margulis but +1 for making that connection but you know its just one of the many possibilites but i feel it strikes close to home this.

Edit: Rather then them creating a human body i would say they just found Margulis or some random female human and Lotus took over the now deceased "shell" as it is.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Omnipower

[Beggining]

4 minutes ago, Omnipower said:

Edit: Rather then them creating a human body i would say they just found Margulis or some random female human and Lotus took over the now deceased "shell" as it is.

Most likely a copy: Margulis is heavily implied to be evaporated in the 'Crewman synthesis' and both the Lotus and Margulis share the same voice actor.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Beggining
DERebecca

[Gelkor]

1 minute ago, Beggining said:

Most likely a copy: Margulis is heavily implied to be evaporated in the 'Crewman synthesis' and both the Lotus and Margulis share the same voice actor.

Well, that was an Archimedian, not necessarily Margulis, the timeline doesn't make sense for that Archimedian to be Margulis, she wasn't working on "The Crewman Project," she was working on Tenno and Warframes when she was executed. Yes, she was probably vaporized like the other Archimedian, but the I don't think the Crewman Synthesis is talking about her.

[BornWithTeeth]

Uh, there's kind of an issue with that specific theory though: If the Lotus looked exactly like Margulis, then Ballas (or anyone else who was high ranked in the Warframe project) would spot her as an infiltrator in seconds and have her shot.

[Gelkor]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Uh, there's kind of an issue with that specific theory though: If the Lotus looked exactly like Margulis, then Ballas (or anyone else who was high ranked in the Warframe project) would spot her as an infiltrator in seconds and have her shot.

Which is kinda why I think that either Lotus secretly contacted the Tenno and helped them with their missions against the Sentients until eventually turning them against the Orokin. Or Ballas himself cloned her in order to better control the Tenno and assuage his guilt over Margulis's death, and then obviously kept it under wraps.

[Beggining]

7 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

Well, that was an Archimedian, not necessarily Margulis, the timeline doesn't make sense for that Archimedian to be Margulis, she wasn't working on "The Crewman Project," she was working on Tenno and Warframes when she was executed. Yes, she was probably vaporized like the other Archimedian, but the I don't think the Crewman Synthesis is talking about her.

Just checked again:

They opened the chamber door just in time for me to see it happen; the Archimedian erupting into a flash, jade-like and blinding. I knew her. She was the greatest scholar of genetics who ever lived. Except now she was nothing but mist and gore.

True, the synthesis data may have not been talking about her, but most people focus in the 'greatest scholar of genetics' part and assume it's Margulis, due to the fact that they mentioned such a passage.

Still, you could be right.

[Gelkor]

11 minutes ago, Beggining said:

Just checked again:

They opened the chamber door just in time for me to see it happen; the Archimedian erupting into a flash, jade-like and blinding. I knew her. She was the greatest scholar of genetics who ever lived. Except now she was nothing but mist and gore.

True, the synthesis data may have not been talking about her, but most people focus in the 'greatest scholar of genetics' part and assume it's Margulis, due to the fact that they mentioned such a passage.

Still, you could be right.

The problem is we don't know specifically what Margulis's area of study and expertise was. We know she was the childhood hero of Silvana, an Infestation Biologist, and we know that she studied and worked to heal the Tenno, and that her work eventually lead to the creation of Transference. So her being a geneticist isn't out of the realm of possibility, sparking a young Silvana's interest in biology, the purview of her projects makes me think more that she was a scientist who studied the Void and it's energies. 

Idunno, it just feels like it's weird in the timeline, for her to have died before the Sentient's were even created.

The Warframes started being developed as a direct answer to the Sentient threat, and Margulis called Silvana to join the project and even worked with her creating Warframes for some time before she was executed, at least I presume Margulis was executed sometime between the recording of the Twilight and Sunrise Apothics, though she still could have been alive at that time.

Or, perhaps she was executed even before the Sentient's were created as you surmise, before transference was discovered in the Rhino Prime Codex. Perhaps Ballas himself did clone her to work with the Tenno, the Margulis who contacted Silvana was not, in fact, Margulis. 

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Gelkor

[Beggining]

7 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

I dunno, it just feels like it's weird in the timeline, for her to have died before the Sentient's were even created.

Yep, that's pretty much the biggest hole in that theory.

7 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

The problem is we don't know specifically what Margulis's area of study and expertise was. We know she was the childhood hero of Silvana, an Infestation Biologist, and we know that she studied and worked to heal the Tenno, and that her work eventually lead to the creation of Transference. So her being a geneticist isn't out of the realm of possibility, sparking a young Silvana's interest in biology, the purview of her projects makes me think more that she was a scientist who studied the Void and it's energies.

The wikia described her as an Archimedian, though I can't find evidence for her being one.

7 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

The Warframes started being developed as a direct answer to the Sentient threat, and Margulis called Silvana to join the project and even worked with her creating Warframes for some time before she was executed, at I presume Margulis was executed sometime between the recording of the Twilight and Sunrise Apothics, though she still could have been alive at that time.

Because their intended project was to heal, I presume she is dead by the Twilight and Sunrise apothic imprints (The Second Dream dialogue)

7 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

Or, perhaps she was executed even before the Sentient's were created as you surmise, before transference was discovered in the Rhino Prime Codex. Perhaps Ballas himself did clone her to work with the Tenno, the Margulis who contacted Silvana was not, in fact, Margulis. 

A bit of a stretch, but possible with their technology. Would have to answer the question why Ballas didn't try to clone more and more of Margulis when she presumably died again, though.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Beggining
Woot da woop

[Gelkor]

Just now, Beggining said:

Yep, that's pretty much the biggest hole in that theory.

The wikia described her as an Archimedian, though I can't find evidence for her being one.

Because their intended project was to heal, I presume she is dead by the Twilight and Sunrise apothic imprints (The Second Dream dialogue)

A bit of a stretch, but possible with their technology. Would have to answer the question why Ballas didn't try to clone more and more pf Margulis when she presumably died again, though.

She was an Archimedian, Silvana addresses her as such in the Nightfall Apothic. In the Twilight Apothic she is alive as well for sure, as Silvana discusses working with Margulis and her feelings on the project. It's only in the Sunrise Apothic, the third in the series, where Silvana talks as if she is working largely alone on building Titania, and no more mention is made of Margulis, only that Silvana is taking orders from Ballas. If the Margulis that contacted Silvana was a clone, then she could have still been alive, and now moved on to the "Lotus" role of directing the Tenno's troop movements, remember that if this Margulis was a clone, it was likely one created for the sole purpose of controlling the Tenno as Warriors, and would be the one posited by @Silvus-Sol to be controlled by a Sentient.  Really, for being such an innocuous quest, the Silver Grove is kinda packed with a lot of lore implications.

 

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, Silvus-Sol said:

I think that Natah was not of human form, but was and is the headpiece that the Lotus "wears".

I'll go you one step further and theorize that Natah is a 200-foot wyrm ship like her father, laying dormant somewhere hidden, and that her famous headpiece is a transference module (or the Sentient equivalent)

3 hours ago, Silvus-Sol said:

The body of Margulis and the headpiece Natah together are the Lotus.

Much like my insistence that Operator + Warframe = Tenno (i.e. Operator alone =/= Tenno), it was only when Natah forsook her Sentient form that she truly became Lotus

Edited September 23, 2016 by TARINunit9

[Toppien]

 

i agree, but i think natah is more like that one, like hunhow is a giant ship, she could be a small ship, easily cofused as a throne

[kyori]

I am confused why  Archimedian Silvana who has a female voice during the 3 Apothic scenes but has a male voice when we are at the shrine?

[(PSN)zeratul____12]

On 9/23/2016 at 7:50 AM, Silvus-Sol said:

 

Thats actually a pretty damn good theory, heres my take on the matter.

 

What if Margulis had a Sentient 'friend' that aided her in her work. Natah in this instance was created by Hunhow before he turned. they worked together on many projects until the Orokin/Sentient war broke out and that put Natah at risk so Margulis hid her by moving her AI into a Sentinal body which were not considered a threat by the Orokin. 

After a time Margulis and Natah worked on the Zamarin project to create Transference and the Warframes. When Margulis was executed Natah recovered her body and sought to bring her back to life. Natah managed to bring her body back to life but Margulis had suffered too much brain damage, so the only way to save her was for Natah to merge herself with Margulis.

Natah had replaced the brain dead parts with cybernetics and began to combine her mind with hers. The process worked but Margulis and Natah were gone, their minds had become fused together and the Lotus was born.                                                        

Edited September 27, 2016 by (PS4)zeratul____12

[(XBOX)Shodian]

That's what I thought but I was never quite sure. I like your explanation. :)