Hydroid is bad, here's a thought out rework

[RikerWatts]

Hi I'm Riker. I'm pretty new. 80 days old and I just recently hit rank 19. I'm attempting to make a video on hydroid BUT I'M INSANELY FRUSTRATED AT THE INABILITY TO CREATE CINEMATIC SHOTS BECAUSE REMOTE OBSERVER IS FRAME-LOCKED AND NOT CONTROLLABLE OR RAILROADABLE.
In any case, I have come up with a rather valid hydroid rework, but before I get to that point, let's review the current set of abilities so I can pessimistically yell.

TEMPEST BARRAGE
This ability sounds cool. It's supposed to be a cannonball-esque barrage of liquid pelting down and knocking over your targets. 12% of the time, it works every time. Why do I say that? IT NEVER HITS ANYTHING. WHAT KIND OF ABILITY IS WORSE WITH MORE RANGE? This is one of those dilemmas where "I could make this useful if I had less range so it focuses on a spot more, but then the rest of my abilities suck doody." You be the judge. My verdict? Is bad. Very bad. Mega bad. The worst.

TIDAL SURGE
You ever play Dark Souls? Rolling in that game gives you "iframes" which are invincibility frames when you roll. This is what tidal surge is supposed to do basically but it also knocks over targets! What's the problem you ask? IT HARDLY KNOCKS PEOPLE OVER, IT LOOKS AS IF IT SHOULD KNOCK PEOPLE BACK, HORRIBLE DAMAGE, BOOTY RE-POSITIONING ASSET, AUGMENT ISN'T WORTH IT DON'T TRY. Bullet jumping is invented for a reason. JUST DO THAT.

UNDERTOW
Remember that "stoopid nerf to nekros"? (Yeah shut up it was 54% chance anyhow and they fixed an unintentional bug, AND THEY LET HIM MOVE.) Undertow sounds and looks like a great form of CC. But here's the problem. FOR A CC THAT IMMOBILIZES HYDROID COMPLETELY IT DOESN'T JUSTIFY IT'S DAMAGE. EXCALIBUR, A STARTER FRAME, HAS BETTER CC POTENTIAL THAN THIS. They fixed the issue of Nekros being a desecrate spammer, why not fix this? Golly gee DE I hope you fix it. I HOPE YOU FIX IT.

TENTACLE SWARM
Honestly I like this ability to an extent. Problem is this: to utilize pilfering swarm, enemies have to be alive. So either you fight level 60+ enemies that don't die to your buddy-o-pal-o-sullavins who are decked in Synoid Miragulator, Novabomb Tonkor, and who can forget our favorite Stabby McStabAsh! Gee it sure would be nice to pilfer people if they would BE ALIVE. ALSO THIS MAKES SNIPERS HAVE A LOT MORE FUN, GOD I LOVE HITTING FLAILING TARGETS.

THE PASSIVE.
Nothing in his kit justifies a slam attack being a necessity to proc this. Nothing propels him up and he doesn't have built in melee like Wukong



Now that that's out of the way, with my pessimism overview, I'm sure someone will write out "RIKER UR WRONG HYDROID IS GREAT" no he's not. It's poor man's nekros and bum vauban, it's bad. HE'S JUST BAD.
BUT FRET NOT! Riker knows how to still fit the theme of slimy sailor man!


FIRST ABILITY: HARSH WEATHER
Ever been out on a boat and look across the sea to see wonderful weather but then all of a sudden WOOOSH IT'S A STORM! THUNDER AND LIGHTNING! BOOM CRACK! No? Ok well this ability is meant to be a placeable trap that looks like a raincloud, rains down harmful inclement to people below it, slowing them by 3/6/9/12/15% and doing 40/80/120/160/200 damage per second, along with disabling the weapons of people who walk through it. You can't fire weapons when they're chugged in water, silly! But when they get out of that storm, they'll be fine to run and gun!
AUGMENT: primary weapon elemental imbuement factored into raincloud damage with 15% status chance
WHOA! CC THAT IS PRETTY BALANCED! Numbers are fun


SECOND ABILITY: OCEAN'S RAGE
Tidal surge? Good ability. Great. Wonderful. Tidal surge? The best tidal surges, huge tidal surges. undertow? Not a tidal surge, bad. crooked. How improve? Make cast, large row of waves, pushes lots of enemies back, easy cc, good damage scaling? Of course. 70/140/210/280/350 damage. Power strength scaling? You know it. Easy. Range scaling? Of course. big tidal waves, boom, damage, range, cc, knockdown.
AUGMENT: could be the same, but this time just aiming in an ally's general direction is good enough, otherwise just play nezha with his new augment.

THIRD ABILITY: MARIANA'S TRENCH
Undertow, the puddle of "HYDROID GET OUT OF THAT YOU LAZY OCTOPUS AND HELP." Color it orange for juice, color it yellow for more juice. It's a juice spill. Liquid spill. Not good. Sham wow can't absorb it. How do we make this good you might ask? Embrace pirate, make it a trap. That's right, cast trap that works like regular undertow. Little puddles up to 3/4/5/6/7 puddles. Do they do damage? Yeah, but read the next ability, it'll make it factor in dw lads.
AUGMENT: Enemies that die in the trench permanently increase hydroid's power strength by 2% up to 100%

FOURTH ABILITY: DEEP SEA ELDRITCH
Call it tentacle swarm if you want, that name has some obvious implications. BUT, how does this factor into MARIANA'S TRENCH? Enemies beneath the puddle trap are hurled up from the liquid trap in a snare from the tentacle, receiving 12/24/36/48/60% max health damage in addition to being flung around and slammed against various surfaces for additional flat damage of like, 75/150/225/300/375 or something along those lines.
AUGMENT: keep pilfering swarm I guess. Not much else to augment here.

THE PASSIVE: SCURVY SEA DOG
The more time you spend near your cast abilities, the stronger your next ability will be cast. Such is the way of the yar har fiddle dee fee.


Go ahead and tell me what you think. Hydroid is bad, he's not a compliment to any other frame, several other frames do his job better, an augment should not justify some decency as augments either alter the way a frame's ability works or improves upon it. None of hydroid's augments justify it's existence with Oberon and Trinity being around, or Nezha's new augment, OR Vauban and Nekros! I want to like hydroid, it's just he's not that great...


 

Edited September 23, 2016 by RikerWatts
EDIT: They're || Title

[Nocam]

Never played Hydriod, but +1 for a well thought out rework.

[(PSN)sanemane213]

2 hours ago, Nocam said:

Never played Hydriod, but +1 for a well thought out rework.

Yeah he's pretty bad. Although, his passive makes for a Fun time when using a Fist Weapon + Gaia's Tragedy. 

Slam Attacks + Tentacles Galore. What's not to Love. 

[Nocam]

Well, all this does is tell me he's not worth farming, outside of MR Fodder. and I HATE using Frames as MR Fodder.

 

[Eric1738]

I wish Hydroid can cast abilities in Undertow. Instead now we get a cheesy way to afk/leech.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Eric1738

[Generallaw]

I have played Hydroid since he first came out and I have always loved him even with his flaws. I just wanted to say I love your ideas; extremely well thought out. 

[Zentimental]

Why is this not given more credit?

[RikerWatts]

2 minutes ago, Zentimental said:

Why is this not given more credit?

'cause I'm new. And apparently only being 80 days new means I'm stupid.

[tifanator]

3 minutes ago, RikerWatts said:

'cause I'm new. And apparently only being 80 days new means I'm stupid.

Could also be because it's currently 1:07 EST and not many people are on the forums right now

[RikerWatts]

Just now, RequiemForHarambe said:

Could also be because it's currently 1:07 EST and not many people are on the forums right now

That is also a good point.

[(PSN)mmcareen]

8 minutes ago, RikerWatts said:

'cause I'm new. And apparently only being 80 days new means I'm stupid.

probably because it's late and your post has only been up for a half hour, most rework ideas with some actual effort put in, gets comments (with time).  Title is also not the best, Hydroid is bad/rework idea might get more attention

[RikerWatts]

1 minute ago, (PS4)mmcareen said:

probably because it's late and your post has only been up for a half hour, most rework ideas with some actual effort put in, gets comments (with time).  Title is also not the best, Hydroid is bad/rework idea might get more attention

aaand altered, thanks for the tip friendo.

[Matt89Connor]

1 hour ago, RikerWatts said:

Hi I'm Riker. I'm pretty new. 80 days old and I just recently hit rank 19. I'm attempting to make a video on hydroid BUT I'M INSANELY FRUSTRATED AT THE INABILITY TO CREATE CINEMATIC SHOTS BECAUSE REMOTE OBSERVER IS FRAME-LOCKED AND NOT CONTROLLABLE OR RAILROADABLE.
In any case, I have come up with a rather valid hydroid rework, but before I get to that point, let's review the current set of abilities so I can pessimistically yell.

TEMPEST BARRAGE
This ability sounds cool. It's supposed to be a cannonball-esque barrage of liquid pelting down and knocking over your targets. 12% of the time, it works every time. Why do I say that? IT NEVER HITS ANYTHING. WHAT KIND OF ABILITY IS WORSE WITH MORE RANGE? This is one of those dilemmas where "I could make this useful if I had less range so it focuses on a spot more, but then the rest of my abilities suck doody." You be the judge. My verdict? Is bad. Very bad. Mega bad. The worst.

TIDAL SURGE
You ever play Dark Souls? Rolling in that game gives you "iframes" which are invincibility frames when you roll. This is what tidal surge is supposed to do basically but it also knocks over targets! What's the problem you ask? IT HARDLY KNOCKS PEOPLE OVER, IT LOOKS AS IF IT SHOULD KNOCK PEOPLE BACK, HORRIBLE DAMAGE, BOOTY RE-POSITIONING ASSET, AUGMENT ISN'T WORTH IT DON'T TRY. Bullet jumping is invented for a reason. JUST DO THAT.

UNDERTOW
Remember that "stoopid nerf to nekros"? (Yeah shut up it was 54% chance anyhow and they fixed an unintentional bug, AND THEY LET HIM MOVE.) Undertow sounds and looks like a great form of CC. But here's the problem. FOR A CC THAT IMMOBILIZES HYDROID COMPLETELY IT DOESN'T JUSTIFY IT'S DAMAGE. EXCALIBUR, A STARTER FRAME, HAS BETTER CC POTENTIAL THAN THIS. They fixed the issue of Nekros being a desecrate spammer, why not fix this? Golly gee DE I hope you fix it. I HOPE YOU FIX IT.

TENTACLE SWARM
Honestly I like this ability to an extent. Problem is this: to utilize pilfering swarm, enemies have to be alive. So either you fight level 60+ enemies that don't die to your buddy-o-pal-o-sullavins who are decked in Synoid Miragulator, Novabomb Tonkor, and who can forget our favorite Stabby McStabAsh! Gee it sure would be nice to pilfer people if they would BE ALIVE. ALSO THIS MAKES SNIPERS HAVE A LOT MORE FUN, GOD I LOVE HITTING FLAILING TARGETS.

THE PASSIVE.
Nothing in his kit justifies a slam attack being a necessity to proc this. Nothing propels him up and he doesn't have built in melee like Wukong



Now that that's out of the way, with my pessimism overview, I'm sure someone will write out "RIKER UR WRONG HYDROID IS GREAT" no he's not. It's poor man's nekros and bum vauban, it's bad. HE'S JUST BAD.
BUT FRET NOT! Riker knows how to still fit the theme of slimy sailor man!


FIRST ABILITY: HARSH WEATHER
Ever been out on a boat and look across the sea to see wonderful weather but then all of a sudden WOOOSH IT'S A STORM! THUNDER AND LIGHTNING! BOOM CRACK! No? Ok well this ability is meant to be a placeable trap that looks like a raincloud, rains down harmful inclement to people below it, slowing them by 3/6/9/12/15% and doing 40/80/120/160/200 damage per second, along with disabling the weapons of people who walk through it. You can't fire weapons when they're chugged in water, silly! But when they get out of that storm, they'll be fine to run and gun!
AUGMENT: primary weapon elemental imbuement factored into raincloud damage with 15% status chance
WHOA! CC THAT IS PRETTY BALANCED! Numbers are fun


SECOND ABILITY: OCEAN'S RAGE
Tidal surge? Good ability. Great. Wonderful. Tidal surge? The best tidal surges, huge tidal surges. undertow? Not a tidal surge, bad. crooked. How improve? Make cast, large row of waves, pushes lots of enemies back, easy cc, good damage scaling? Of course. 70/140/210/280/350 damage. Power strength scaling? You know it. Easy. Range scaling? Of course. big tidal waves, boom, damage, range, cc, knockdown.
AUGMENT: could be the same, but this time just aiming in an ally's general direction is good enough, otherwise just play nezha with his new augment.

THIRD ABILITY: MARIANA'S TRENCH
Undertow, the puddle of "HYDROID GET OUT OF THAT YOU LAZY OCTOPUS AND HELP." Color it orange for juice, color it yellow for more juice. It's a juice spill. Liquid spill. Not good. Sham wow can't absorb it. How do we make this good you might ask? Embrace pirate, make it a trap. That's right, cast trap that works like regular undertow. Little puddles up to 3/4/5/6/7 puddles. Do they do damage? Yeah, but read the next ability, it'll make it factor in dw lads.
AUGMENT: Enemies that die in the trench permanently increase hydroid's power strength by 2% up to 100%

FOURTH ABILITY: DEEP SEA ELDRITCH
Call it tentacle swarm if you want, that name has some obvious implications. BUT, how does this factor into MARIANA'S TRENCH? Enemies beneath the puddle trap are hurled up from the liquid trap in a snare from the tentacle, receiving 12/24/36/48/60% max health damage in addition to being flung around and slammed against various surfaces for additional flat damage of like, 75/150/225/300/375 or something along those lines.
AUGMENT: keep pilfering swarm I guess. Not much else to augment here.

THE PASSIVE: SCURVY SEA DOG
The more time you spend near your cast abilities, the stronger your next ability will be cast. Such is the way of the yar har fiddle dee fee.


Go ahead and tell me what you think. Hydroid is bad, he's not a compliment to any other frame, several other frames do his job better, an augment should not justify some decency as augments either alter the way a frame's ability works or improves upon it. None of hydroid's augments justify it's existence with Oberon and Trinity being around, or Nezha's new augment, OR Vauban and Nekros! I want to like hydroid, it's just he's not that great...


 

 aproper rework :)...but he needs a water cannons ability to become perfect check mine topic ;)

[bl4ckhunter]

7 hours ago, RikerWatts said:

Now that that's out of the way, with my pessimism overview, I'm sure someone will write out "RIKER UR WRONG HYDROID IS GREAT" no he's not. It's poor man's nekros and bum vauban, it's bad. HE'S JUST BAD.

Riker you're wrong hydroid is a fantastic frame and borderline op

Spoiler

/sarcasm

no seriously i don't think anyone ever said that and meant it, hydroid is like the n*1 frame on the list of the worst frames, and i think the only reason he's not also the least popular is that ore gaze is worse than pilfering swarm and no one uses atlas (or maybe everyone hates jordas).

+1

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by bl4ckhunter

[CrimsonDalekanium]

Oh come on. Hydroid isn't THAT bad. Stick some range and a natural talent on that sucker and you've got a frame that can compete with volt for speed, Nekros for farming, and Vauban for limited CC. His one is... terrible. His 2 is actually nice when you're charging around on a survival through a zillion enemies to pick up loot. His 3 has limited uses, but you can easily CC the area around a mob/def target or help your buddy revive somebody. I personally like his 4th, because I use less precise weapons like shotguns, staticor, and synoid simulor (plus free lewt).

[Nocam]

52 minutes ago, bl4ckhunter said:

no one uses atlas (or maybe everyone hates jordas).

It's the latter. People hate killing the J-3 Golem. Not because he's hard, but because he's a goddamned bullet sponge.

[RikerWatts]

1 hour ago, CrimsonDalekanium said:

Oh come on. Hydroid isn't THAT bad. Stick some range and a natural talent on that sucker and you've got a frame that can compete with volt for speed, Nekros for farming, and Vauban for limited CC. His one is... terrible. His 2 is actually nice when you're charging around on a survival through a zillion enemies to pick up loot. His 3 has limited uses, but you can easily CC the area around a mob/def target or help your buddy revive somebody. I personally like his 4th, because I use less precise weapons like shotguns, staticor, and synoid simulor (plus free lewt).

We can agree on Tempest barrage. It's just bad with no way for improvement.
His tidal surge is a re-position but hydroid isn't tanky enough to survive re-positioning into enemies which is what is surge is, offensive since it has knockdown and damage.
Undertow is only good against bursas BUT LIKE I SAID EXCALIBUR CAN DO THAT TOO.
His ult is okayish, but enemies need to be alive for the pilfering swarm augment to be worthwhile.

Nothing about him can compete in speed, nekros benefits off of tenno mass genocide, Vauban, Frost, and even BANSHEE have better CC than hydroid's entire kit in one ability. It's depressing. I just want rainman to be good.

[Arithin]

What are the new ability costs?  New abilities are nice, but if I need to go all in with the energy regen(focus, aura, arcane) and prime flow... why both changing?

[RikerWatts]

1 minute ago, Arithin said:

What are the new ability costs?  New abilities are nice, but if I need to go all in with the energy regen(focus, aura, arcane) and prime flow... why both changing?

Energy costs are fine as is, don't need any alterations there. I only listed the needed alterations and side effects. If there was any changes I'd increase the cost of Undertow -> Mariana's Trench from 15 to 20

[CrimsonDalekanium]

2 hours ago, RikerWatts said:

We can agree on Tempest barrage. It's just bad with no way for improvement.
His tidal surge is a re-position but hydroid isn't tanky enough to survive re-positioning into enemies which is what is surge is, offensive since it has knockdown and damage.
Undertow is only good against bursas BUT LIKE I SAID EXCALIBUR CAN DO THAT TOO.
His ult is okayish, but enemies need to be alive for the pilfering swarm augment to be worthwhile.

Nothing about him can compete in speed, nekros benefits off of tenno mass genocide, Vauban, Frost, and even BANSHEE have better CC than hydroid's entire kit in one ability. It's depressing. I just want rainman to be good.

Omigod the CC frames have better CC than the pirate frame. WHAT SHOCKER THERE. We all know soundquake is a bit unbalanced, Repelling bastille is just absurd, and frost  is an all around solid frame. Banshee is probably THE BEST CC frame there is, being able to lock down an entire map with one button press. Vauban is in the running too, since your energy can regenerate while throwing bastille everywhere. 

How hard is it to leave enemies alive? You probably shouldn't be farming with Hydroid unless you're in a surv or defense, and there are enemies galore in those. I'm betting that I could be faster with Hydroid than most Volts on nearly any terrain (excluding hive missions). It'd just take more energy.

Nekros has come to compete with pilfdroid since they changed Desecrate to a toggled ability. But prior to that, pilfdroid was the superior farmer if you liked your 3 key in anything like reasonable shape. 

 

Hydroid isn't a tank, he isn't a support frame, he isn't a good DPS frame and he isn't a buffer, and this steers most people away from him. But he's still an all-around decent solo frame, and I'd rather Wukong, Oberon, Limbo, and Zephyr get looked at before anybody touches my precious Hydroid. 

 

 

 

[RikerWatts]

3 minutes ago, CrimsonDalekanium said:

Omigod the CC frames have better CC than the pirate frame. WHAT SHOCKER THERE. We all know soundquake is a bit unbalanced, Repelling bastille is just absurd, and frost  is an all around solid frame. Banshee is probably THE BEST CC frame there is, being able to lock down an entire map with one button press. Vauban is in the running too, since your energy can regenerate while throwing bastille everywhere. 

How hard is it to leave enemies alive? You probably shouldn't be farming with Hydroid unless you're in a surv or defense, and there are enemies galore in those. I'm betting that I could be faster with Hydroid than most Volts on nearly any terrain (excluding hive missions). It'd just take more energy.

Nekros has come to compete with pilfdroid since they changed Desecrate to a toggled ability. But prior to that, pilfdroid was the superior farmer if you liked your 3 key in anything like reasonable shape. 

 

Hydroid isn't a tank, he isn't a support frame, he isn't a good DPS frame and he isn't a buffer, and this steers most people away from him. But he's still an all-around decent solo frame, and I'd rather Wukong, Oberon, Limbo, and Zephyr get looked at before anybody touches my precious Hydroid. 

 

 

 

Your "precious hydroid" needs the buffer before anyone else. IT'S ALSO THE EASIEST REWORK TO IMPLEMENT.
Oberon is ok for now, passive is useless.
ObviousLee made a complete rework for Zephyr that would emphasize her flight-ness.
Wukong is chinese they aren't touching him.
I have yet to figure out how to make limbo NOT a "single out" frame so he MIGHT need work.

But Hydroid? Hydroid is just garbage. Absolutely garbage. I've built him to lean in every direction and balanced him with mods. NOTHING is worth putting on him. And that speed you said? It's useful in a drag race but oh look MOBILIZE CAN GO FASTER AND YOU CAN CONTROL AIR MOVEMENT BETTER THAN A STRAIGHT WATERSLIDE. Hydroid is seemingly built as a CC frame, I don't know if you've noticed. ALL it's abilities have a form of crowd control to them. His tempest barrage can knock down IF IT WOULD EVER HIT. His tidal surge has a knockdown BUT NOT A FORCED RAGDOLL KNOCKBACK LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE. His undertow "temporarily removes enemies from the game" AND DOES 32 DAMAGE PER TICK WOW SO MUCH. and his ult can only hold one target and OH MY GOD LOOK IT DOES CC. "better than the priate frame" isn't an argument whatsoever. He's a CC based frame. And- OH MY GOD MY REWORK EMPHASIZES THAT AND MAKES IT'S OUTPUT WORTHWHILE.

"How hard is it to leave enemies alive" Clearly you didn't read

12 hours ago, RikerWatts said:

Synoid Miragulator, Novabomb Tonkor, and who can forget our favorite Stabby McStabAsh!

Just some of the combinations you can expect from the warframe community! "How hard is it to leave enemies alive"? AS HARD AS IT IS TO EFFECTIVELY PLAY HYDROID TO IT'S FULLEST. A frame's abilities should interact with each other, you know, mesh well. Limbo is a good example at how his abilities mesh with each other. Sure it's not well executed, but they mesh with each other.

Nekros has to compete with HYDROID?
CONGRATULATIONS NEKROS, YOU RECIEVED THE GRAND PRIZE OF LOOTING BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO GROUP ENEMIES UP IN BUNCHES AND HOPE THEY DIE TO YOUR TENTACLES. WHAT'S THAT? YOU HAVE A WEAPON OR A FRIEND WHO CAN ACCOMMODATE FOR YOUR TENTACLES FLAILING LIKE EMBER OR NOVA? CONGRATULATIONS! YOU NEEDED ANOTHER FRAME/WEAPON OF A SPECIFIC TYPE TO MAKE YOUR AUGMENT WORK BETTER, HYDROID.
As you can tell, I am a little bit sea-salty that hydroid is just so poorly made. You COULD ride the waves at super fast speed, or you could play Zephyr with her augment or volt if you want to be fast.
No Hydroid isn't a tank, which is why his offensive initiation on Tidal Surge (with it's damage and CC) don't make sense to his survivability. What is he going to do? Puddle on the spot? Oh wow SUCH INNOVATIVE GAMEPLAY.

[Thrymm]

Hydroid is tanky enough to reposition into enemies.  His kit works pretty well, really.

Except Tempest Barrage, which is indeed fixable.

1.  Tempest Barrage:  Should cast twice as fast as it does, and one handed to allow reload.  Should also have the aiming reworked to allow it to not be nearly as clunky.  The actual knockdown effect works.

2.  Tidal Surge: renders hydroid immune and allows you to travel significant distance.  It works well.  It is, however, a bit too expensive for a movement ability and its CC through the travel path is negligible.

3.  Undertow:  This is why Hydroid is tanky enough to reposition into enemies.  Tidal Surge directly into Undertow means a brief second of vulnerability followed by again being invulnerable, followed by aforementioned enemies being on the ground and vulnerable to ground finishers.  The opposite also works to get away from enemies, Undertow into Tidal Surge.  It also allows Hydroid a relatively easy way to avoid bombard fire, or wait out status and AE effects.  The heal augment also means that any damage taken during these maneuvers is gone when you get back up.  The real strength of this ability is on demand, super cheap invulnerability coupled with not getting immediately mobbed when you stand back up.

4.  Tentacle Swarm:  This works well.  Yes, it throws enemies around and makes them harder to shoot, but it also has a long duration and can affect enemies that enter the area.  Capable of being placed at long range and handling a fairly large number of enemies at once.

His passive....I really don't like it, but even this can work when combined with another gimmick such as fist weapons or the Sarpa.  Sarpa, in particular, triggers this thing with abandon.  Every time an attack causes you to roll with it it also has a chance to trigger the passive.  Just the same, single tentacles are of marginal use at close range and really aren't particularly useful.

If you're trying to fill a specific role, there is probably something more dedicated.  If you want a good all around mission runner, Hydroid works pretty well.  He's relatively fast and virtually every ability provides some level of CC or breathing room. 

The reason you don't see alot of talk about how well he works is because he doesn't do that well during static defense style missions, especially with teammates, and this has historically been the area that gets people talking.  He simply doesn't have that "one button" for those kinds of things that others bring, like a full Banshee lockdown, or a Frost group defensive, or even a Nekros style passive, unobtrusive loot handler.

 

[-Amaterasu-]

I can agree with a lot of this but I think his current passive is actually pretty usefull when paired with the Sarpa, I've seen people make masses of tentacles with it at no energy cost and pilfering still applies to them.

[CrimsonDalekanium]

4 minutes ago, RikerWatts said:

But Hydroid? Hydroid is just garbage. Absolutely garbage. I've built him to lean in every direction and balanced him with mods. NOTHING is worth putting on him. And that speed you said? It's useful in a drag race but oh look MOBILIZE CAN GO FASTER AND YOU CAN CONTROL AIR MOVEMENT BETTER THAN A STRAIGHT WATERSLIDE. Hydroid is seemingly built as a CC frame, I don't know if you've noticed. ALL it's abilities have a form of crowd control to them. His tempest barrage can knock down IF IT WOULD EVER HIT. His tidal surge has a knockdown BUT NOT A FORCED RAGDOLL KNOCKBACK LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE. His undertow "temporarily removes enemies from the game" AND DOES 32 DAMAGE PER TICK WOW SO MUCH. and his ult can only hold one target and OH MY GOD LOOK IT DOES CC. "better than the priate frame" isn't an argument whatsoever. He's a CC based frame. And- OH MY GOD MY REWORK EMPHASIZES THAT AND MAKES IT'S OUTPUT WORTHWHILE.

"How hard is it to leave enemies alive" Clearly you didn't read

Just some of the combinations you can expect from the warframe community! "How hard is it to leave enemies alive"? AS HARD AS IT IS TO EFFECTIVELY PLAY HYDROID TO ITS FULLEST. A frame's abilities should interact with each other, you know, mesh well. Limbo is a good example at how his abilities mesh with each other. Sure it's not well executed, but they mesh with each other.

Nekros has to compete with HYDROID?
CONGRATULATIONS NEKROS, YOU RECIEVED THE GRAND PRIZE OF LOOTING BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO GROUP ENEMIES UP IN BUNCHES AND HOPE THEY DIE TO YOUR TENTACLES. WHAT'S THAT? YOU HAVE A WEAPON OR A FRIEND WHO CAN ACCOMMODATE FOR YOUR TENTACLES FLAILING LIKE EMBER OR NOVA? CONGRATULATIONS! YOU NEEDED ANOTHER FRAME/WEAPON OF A SPECIFIC TYPE TO MAKE YOUR AUGMENT WORK BETTER, HYDROID.
As you can tell, I am a little bit sea-salty that hydroid is just so poorly made. You COULD ride the waves at super fast speed, or you could play Zephyr with her augment or volt if you want to be fast.
No Hydroid isn't a tank, which is why his offensive initiation on Tidal Surge (with it's damage and CC) don't make sense to his survivability. What is he going to do? Puddle on the spot? Oh wow SUCH INNOVATIVE GAMEPLAY.

32 damage per tick of FINISHER damage tyvm. Eats right through that nasty armor people love to hate.

 

Complete... Garbage... You know, I've always considered it a general rule that if something seems terrible in Warframe, you're using it wrong.My build is E. Siphon/CP, P cont, Narrow minded, OE, Fleeting expertise,  p flow, stretch, natural talent, pilfering swarm, and a maxed energy regen Zenurik. 0 forma, 0 exilus. Works great for farming infested or grineer as long has you have a half-decent weapon (Tonkor, S. Simulor, Sancti/Tigris/Prime, Vaykor/Hek, Boar Prime, Drakgoon, Boltor, Soma, Staticor, Twin Graks, Akstiletto, War, Scindo, Galatine, broken war, Nikana, etc.)

All the pilfering tentacles need to do is touch the enemy, and then he drops double loot when the Ash-hole/your weapon kills him. The tentacles don't actually need to kill them, just touch them while they live. And only hold one target? M80, they knock down nearly everybody in the radius when you cast them, and then continue flinging a few of them about.  

Mesh well? Such as Nekros? What kind of interactivity do Nekros' abilities have? The best you can say is that they don't directly conflict with one another. 

Tidal surge is basically Rhino's charge but a bit slower and can go a bit farther. 

 

 

 

[RikerWatts]

19 minutes ago, CrimsonDalekanium said:

32 damage per tick of FINISHER damage tyvm. Eats right through that nasty armor people love to hate.

 

Complete... Garbage... You know, I've always considered it a general rule that if something seems terrible in Warframe, you're using it wrong.My build is E. Siphon/CP, P cont, Narrow minded, OE, Fleeting expertise,  p flow, stretch, natural talent, pilfering swarm, and a maxed energy regen Zenurik. 0 forma, 0 exilus. Works great for farming infested or grineer as long has you have a half-decent weapon (Tonkor, S. Simulor, Sancti/Tigris/Prime, Vaykor/Hek, Boar Prime, Drakgoon, Boltor, Soma, Staticor, Twin Graks, Akstiletto, War, Scindo, Galatine, broken war, Nikana, etc.)

All the pilfering tentacles need to do is touch the enemy, and then he drops double loot when the Ash-hole/your weapon kills him. The tentacles don't actually need to kill them, just touch them while they live. And only hold one target? M80, they knock down nearly everybody in the radius when you cast them, and then continue flinging a few of them about.  

Mesh well? Such as Nekros? What kind of interactivity do Nekros' abilities have? The best you can say is that they don't directly conflict with one another. 

Tidal surge is basically Rhino's charge but a bit slower and can go a bit farther. 

 

 

 

Right while some of these bear weight, the problem comes along with having to sit on meta weapons to hold your own. Nekro's synergy comes along with his kit. Both 1 and 2 are breathing room all on their own. Push an enemy back? 1! CC a group of enemies by telling them to go away? 2! his 3 is obviously the farm aspect and also can be used to get some health orbs, pretty good stuff, more rewards for mass murder! His 4 accommodates his flexibility with dead enemies and the aura of "fear" with a necromancer type frame. He looks the part, his abilities work the part. All of it is meant to make him survive and breathe again.

I've attempted to use pilfering swarm but I only get extra drops when an enemy DIES to my tentacles. I wouldn't know why it's different for me, but then again, I've seen some bugs.
AS FOR THE ARGUEMENT ABOUT "if something seems terrible in warframe you're using it wrong"
Glaxion, Panthera, Miter, Dual Khomak, Khomak, Ankyros Prime, (seriously it doesn't attack fast enough to justify a low damage, even with crit!) Buzlok, Synapse. Tell me how I am using these wrong. 'cause I've tried so hard to make these work in some way and they don't provide.

AS FOR

34 minutes ago, -Amaterasu- said:

I can agree with a lot of this but I think his current passive is actually pretty usefull when paired with the Sarpa, I've seen people make masses of tentacles with it at no energy cost and pilfering still applies to them.

NO weapon stance or weapon in general should have to justify the viability of that passive working well enough to be worth it.