Magnetize - Consumes energy, No bubble ...

[main_antagonist]

The only thing that frustrates me about the mag rework is that when you cast Magnetize and an ally kills your target it consumes your energy and you have no magnetic bubble ...

Trying to use Magnetize are we?

Ember on the team, Check

Radial Jav spam Excalibur, Check

Saryn spamming Miasma or Spores, Check

You can end up wasting thousands of energy in failed casts if you stay with a squad for 20+ waves with a team composition like that and that's when it really starts to get frustrating.

Could we get a half energy cost return if the target dies before the ability takes effect or a full refund of energy please?

I love the rework but that is my only flaw with it.

Video proof below. (Updated the video to a more HD version, now shows the energy usage. For some reason the player keeps defaulting to 480p click the video settings to increase the resolution to 720p or 1080p)

 

Edited October 9, 2016 by main_antagonist
Updated video that shows the energy usage.

[Godzilla853]

It should give a refund for all abilities if the target dies before the ability can take affect.

[tastic]

If they are dying that quick then don't use it on fodder, heavy's/ancients/eximus is what you should be targeting

[main_antagonist]

On 23/09/2016 at 9:31 PM, tastic said:

If they are dying that quick then don't use it on fodder, heavy's/ancients/eximus is what you should be targeting

Apart from the fact it synergizes with nearly her whole kit?

EDIT:

What makes you think that the frames I listed don't have the kill potential to one shot the ancients etc heavy units?

What you're saying in other words is basically hey you're only allowed to target these units for 'chance' for it to work? Nah I'd rather a proper fix thanks.

And don't forget latency issues with the host.

EDIT2:

Mag mains will know that casting on Ancient Disruptors give you reduced duration on Magnetize too, they are resistant to it's effect and grant the reduced duration buff to all of their allies in range. I have a 27second Magnetize that goes down to 7 seconds to anything caught in the disruptor aura.

Edited October 9, 2016 by main_antagonist

[SanguineSavant]

So you're frustrated because your allies are killing enemies too quickly to make it feel like Magnetize is worth casting? And that them killing the targets you marked is a failed cast?

[main_antagonist]

4 minutes ago, SanguineSavant said:

So you're frustrated because your allies are killing enemies too quickly to make it feel like Magnetize is worth casting? And that them killing the targets you marked is a failed cast?

Yes and no, you should read what I said here. But that does happen in a sense you don't really 'mark' them it's a full cast and nothing happens ... 

Well something does happen ... you lose your energy that's all that happens other than the cast animation.

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by main_antagonist

[djternan]

It either needs to give a full refund or cast the bubble anyway.  There's no excuse for it to still be costing energy with no effect taking place.

Edited September 23, 2016 by djternan

[main_antagonist]

I'm going to edit this post later today when the footage finishes uploading and show examples of it, anybody else who can document this please add video proof to this topic/thread.

[KittyDarkling]

On 23/09/2016 at 10:05 PM, djternan said:

It either needs to give a full refund or cast the bubble anyway.  There's no excuse for it to still be costing energy with no effect taking place.

Pretty much this^

+1s all around

Edited October 2, 2016 by KittyDarkling
+1

[Birdframe_Prime]

Indeed, I've had this trouble too, especially while I was trying to get to grips with the rework itself. It definitely wasn't a pleasant experience while I was doing that, trying to figure out how to cast, when to cast and what was the best balance of power/duration/range to use on this new ability... but then finding that sometimes it just didn't do what I told it to do because the enemy died between start of casting and when the bubble should appear? Very frustrating.

Seeing as she's a starter frame, I definitely think that she shouldn't have such a glaring flaw in what is, arguably, her bread-and-butter ability.

[main_antagonist]

Added the video to the original post, hopefully this gets fixed asap!

[appleiron]

Refund would be nice if it doesn't take affect.

Clearer video:

 

Edited October 7, 2016 by appleiron
learnt to embed

[Zarota]

If the enemies die that fast they are either on too low health for Magnetize to be truly effective or just squishy in general. A good Crush or Polarize could obliterate them as well. 

 

I play a ton of Mag and Polarize and Crush are in most cases enough for some weak enemies. I only Magnetize the big fellas and then cast Polarize or just shoot em. Mostly end up first or second in the damage statistics playing Mag, depending on the enemy type.

Just save that energy for the big guys :)

 

Ps: I do agree that it can be annoying to lose energy for nothing, but focusing Magnetize on stronger units alone would minimize the chances of wasting that energy.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Zarota

[Tatersail]

or causes an instant AOE for X damage if it fails to cast

[Birdframe_Prime]

55 minutes ago, Zarota said:

If the enemies die that fast they are either on too low health for Magnetize to be truly effective

Now, see, I understand your play style here, and it's not all that bad, but you're basing this point off the above statement, and the belief that the enemies in question are necessarily weak to cause this effect.

Regrettably, this isn't actually completely true. As the discussion earlier was saying, there are plenty of frames, and even weapons, that will quickly finish off full health enemies at pretty much any point in the star chart that doesn't exceed normal run length. (By normal, I mean not above 20 waves/minutes on endless, for example.) So even a full-health Bombard or Gunner can still be killed between start and effect of a Magnetise cast. It's happened to me, and I presume others in this thread, plenty of times.

There's also the very minor issue (one I'm not making part of my main point) that the point-and-click is actually aim-assisted and doesn't always pick out exactly the one you've targeted, but maybe the one just in front or behind. So there's that too.

The issue at hand is that the bubble, if it appears at all, is both a defense, a CC and a damage source on the field for anything that's within range, not just the target. Even if it starts to decay quickly due to the death of the subject, you can still pump damage into it for an AoE burst when it dies, and it can still slow down enemies and prevent ranged fire from hitting a target.

All of that functionality is lost if you cast the ability, nothing happens, and still consumes the energy. Being unable to simply cast it again if your energy is low, or simply having wasted the animation time on the cast, is very frustrating in fast paced modes, like Infested Defense.

[-VV-Phantom-Phoenix]

On 9/23/2016 at 6:54 AM, main_antagonist said:

The only thing that frustrates me about the mag rework is that when you cast Magnetize and an ally kills your target it consumes your energy and you have no magnetic bubble ...

Trying to use Magnetize are we?

Ember on the team, Check

Radial Jav spam Excalibur, Check

Saryn spamming Miasma or Spores, Check

You can end up wasting thousands of energy in failed casts if you stay with a squad for 20+ waves with a team composition like that and that's when it really starts to get frustrating.

Could we get a half energy cost return if the target dies before the ability takes effect or a full refund of energy please?

I love the rework but that is my only flaw with it.

100% agree with you, magnetize targets being killed is the most annoying thing, but i always think, if magnetize can stay when the enemy is dead why can't it cast if i cast it. A refund of energy would be nice but the animation playing and nothing happening would still be an issue. 

[taiiat]

the Casting Animation is a bit slow for its own good anyways.
but partially refunding a failed Cast as well, sure.

casting Magnetize on a Heavy makes the most sense - unless the Enemies are way out of your league and you can't Kill any Heavies (in which case it's probably time for you to leave and bring more Overpowered things later), you'll Kill the Heavy quickly anyways, so removing one Heavy instantly is nicer than one Trash Unit. since it's expected you'll Kill both nigh instantaneously with Magnetize.

[Zetectic]

I think the bubble should always appear. On high level content I use the bubbles to create choke points and protect from incoming fire. When I don't get the bubble I have to recast it again whilst getting shot at more.

As it is now, it makes for an inconsistent experience playing mag.

Edited October 7, 2016 by MistakeNot...

[main_antagonist]

12 hours ago, appleiron said:

Refund would be nice if it doesn't take affect.

Clearer video:

 

For clarity on this video incase somebody questions the energy, we had an EV Trinity on the team for testing purposes. It's harder to notice the energy not being refunded due to the EV Trin but for the energy still being consumed and you can barely make it out on my original post. If anybody is skeptical I suggest that you try it but since there is numerous people confirming this in the topic that's more than enough proof at this point.

Edited October 7, 2016 by main_antagonist

[Zarota]

23 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Now, see, I understand your play style here, and it's not all that bad, but you're basing this point off the above statement, and the belief that the enemies in question are necessarily weak to cause this effect.

Regrettably, this isn't actually completely true. As the discussion earlier was saying, there are plenty of frames, and even weapons, that will quickly finish off full health enemies at pretty much any point in the star chart that doesn't exceed normal run length. (By normal, I mean not above 20 waves/minutes on endless, for example.) So even a full-health Bombard or Gunner can still be killed between start and effect of a Magnetise cast. It's happened to me, and I presume others in this thread, plenty of times.

There's also the very minor issue (one I'm not making part of my main point) that the point-and-click is actually aim-assisted and doesn't always pick out exactly the one you've targeted, but maybe the one just in front or behind. So there's that too.

The issue at hand is that the bubble, if it appears at all, is both a defense, a CC and a damage source on the field for anything that's within range, not just the target. Even if it starts to decay quickly due to the death of the subject, you can still pump damage into it for an AoE burst when it dies, and it can still slow down enemies and prevent ranged fire from hitting a target.

All of that functionality is lost if you cast the ability, nothing happens, and still consumes the energy. Being unable to simply cast it again if your energy is low, or simply having wasted the animation time on the cast, is very frustrating in fast paced modes, like Infested Defense.

You made your point clear the first time, and its not that i don't agree with it. I meant not to insult or anything. It bothers me as well that energy is wasted like that. And additionally the targeting is horrible.

I was just suggesting an alternative. It just happens since the whole team is just trying to survive and kill, i just accepted it to happen. It happens with a lot of frames and weapons as well. Can't count the amount of times i tried to EV a target as Trinity and it just instantly got destroyed by another player, then blaming me for not giving enough energy.

One solution is adding cast speed increases like Natural Talent and/or Speed Drift, yet it is not a solution to the problem. A fix would be to allow Magnetize to be cast like Cataclysm or perhaps Bastille. 

On a side note, i would rather have Mags passive changed since The Vacuum Within made it a little pointless outside of Conclave.

[NinjaZeku]

9 hours ago, Zarota said:

A fix would be to allow Magnetize to be cast like Cataclysm

Should be pretty easy to do, tap the button to get the enemy lock-on targeting
(preferably with refunded cost - just as new Blade Storm is going to have - on a miss),
hold it to freely deploy Magnetize without requiring an enemy
(same would also be mightily welcome for Titania's Lantern, BTW).

9 hours ago, Zarota said:

have Mags passive changed

Yeah, it was silly back then and it's transcended that state now :P

[Chipputer]

On 9/23/2016 at 6:32 AM, main_antagonist said:

Mag mains will know that casting on ancients gives you reduced duration on Magnetize too they are resistant to it's effect.

No, that's Disruptors. There's a distinct difference.

[main_antagonist]

40 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

No, that's Disruptors. There's a distinct difference.

Seems you're right I'll edit my original post.

[Lyravain]

Personally, instead of refunding that energy, I'd like it if Magnetize took effect immidiately rather than have to wait half a second for it to trigger. Also, y u no use Natural Talent if it's that much of an issue. Finally, if the entire team is going for area-of-effect wipes... you go for it too. Break out that Crush and teach them not to mess with Mag :D

[main_antagonist]

On 09/10/2016 at 7:36 PM, Lyravain said:

Personally, instead of refunding that energy, I'd like it if Magnetize took effect immidiately rather than have to wait half a second for it to trigger. Also, y u no use Natural Talent if it's that much of an issue. Finally, if the entire team is going for area-of-effect wipes... you go for it too. Break out that Crush and teach them not to mess with Mag :D

It doesn't make a difference with natural talent or not the problem is if it dies before cast. Personally I only use Crush as a CC technique when somebody is bleeding out or an objective is being swamped :c