Can we please get rid of Syndicate bursts?

[Teridax68]

I agree with this, and more generally, I'd like syndicate guns to either have unique passives of their own, a la syndicate melee, or have each syndicate effect reworked to be a bit more tailored towards each faction's gameplay/thematic niche. New Loka, for example, is a faction dedicated to healing and purifying, so it would be nice for its mods to focus on utility, and the Steel Meridian, who's all about self-sacrifice for the protection of civilians, should have a syndicate effect that really encourages/rewards tanking. The current explosion + stat bonus effects are fairly generic, and it'd be nice to see them refined into something more interesting.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Teridax68

[BornWithTeeth]

19 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

I agree with this, and more generally, I'd like syndicate guns to either have unique passives of their own, a la syndicate melee, or have each syndicate effect reworked to be a bit more tailored towards each faction's gameplay/thematic niche. New Loka, for example, is a faction dedicated to healing and purifying, so it would be nice for its mods to focus on utility, and the Steel Meridian, who's all about self-sacrifice for the protection of civilians, should have a syndicate effect that really encourages/rewards tanking. The current explosion + stat bonus effects are fairly generic, and it'd be nice to see them refined into something more interesting.

The problem here is that we have an example of how DE would implement this idea, and it's the Vaykor Sydon's Radial Blind. I repeat, no god no, why, what did we do, how can we repent, please spare us, give us a decent effect, anything, anything, something worth using, anything, etc.

[Teridax68]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

The problem here is that we have an example of how DE would implement this idea, and it's the Vaykor Sydon's Radial Blind. I repeat, no god no, why, what did we do, how can we repent, please spare us, give us a decent effect, anything, anything, something worth using, anything, etc.

I personally think the Vaykor Sydon was actually one of the better-designed syndicate melee weapons, if not the best. I'd have preferred it if the passive had gone to the Silva & Aegis, but it's still good. What do you not like about it? Do you not think the effect is good?

[BornWithTeeth]

12 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

I personally think the Vaykor Sydon was actually one of the better-designed syndicate melee weapons, if not the best. I'd have preferred it if the passive had gone to the Silva & Aegis, but it's still good. What do you not like about it? Do you not think the effect is good?

The effect requires you to stand there like a tool and block fifteen consecutive hits before you can unleash a short ranged Radial Blind which lasts five seconds.

 

 

In other words, stand still and take at least 225% of the damage of an enemy attack, make sure you don't do anything other than block or you'll have to start over again, and that includes getting hit by anything which can cause knockdown (that cancels it too!), and then release an effect to open enemies to Finishers....which lasts for less time than it took to charge up the Blind in the first place.

 

 

In any situation where it might be even remotely worthwhile to even consider using the Radial Blind, you are just better off powersliding through the room to take advantage of the range and damage of the V. Sydon's spin attack. The Radial Blind effect is conceptually interesting, but mechanically terrible in its implementation, resulting in it being a gimmick which is overshadowed for tactical effect by just using the weapon to hit dudes. Any situation where the Radial Blind might be useful is a situation where you are better off doing anything else, because Step No. 1 in using the Radial Blind is Stand still and block fifteen enemy attacks. In low level play, you don't need it, and in high level play it's basically suicidal.

 

The Blind would be worthwhile if it had a minimum charge from the very first block, and charged up to maximum effect at fifteen blocks, but it doesn't work that way.

 

 

 

(The weapon itself is great! Wonderful statline, looks amazing, one of my most preferred weapons right now. It's just that the Syndicate effect is beyond crappy. It comes across as something which got playtested for about fifteen minutes in the Simulacrum, they concluded "It works, players can reliably trigger it, that's grand", and they never stopped to consider whether it was actually useful.)

Edited October 8, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[Teridax68]

11 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

The effect requires you to stand there like a tool and block fifteen consecutive hits before you can unleash a short ranged Radial Blind which lasts five seconds.

I have to admit, it would be nice if you could store charges in between blocks, but the radial blind effect is still pretty effective, especially against high-level opponents. In the end, this is an issue you're taking with the implementation, it seems, and not the core mechanic.

11 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

In other words, stand still and take at least 225% of the damage of an enemy attack, make sure you don't do anything other than block or you'll have to start over again, and then release an effect to open enemies to Finishers....which lasts for less time than it took to charge up the Blind in the first place.

225% of an enemy attack isn't really that impressive unless you're dealing with a Bombard or a high-level Sniper/Nullifier Crewman, and the effect charges up almost instantly against crowds. It's also worth putting into perspective that this lets you cast a miniature warframe ability at no energy cost, on top of having a pretty good weapon.

Disagreement on the specific implementation of one syndicate melee aside, it's worth pointing out that there are successful examples, too: the Sancti Magistar's heal effect, for example, offers a nice little bit of utility, and the Telos Boltor, while a little cheesy, satisfies the fantasy of clearing rooms like a ninja combine harvester. Even if you look at the less successful cases, like the Rakta Dark Dagger, they have the potential to be great with a few tweaks (scrapping the RDD's current passives and making it grant invisibility while stationary and/or crouched, for example, would make it a great stealth/assassin weapon).

Edited October 8, 2016 by Teridax68

[BornWithTeeth]

@Teridax68

 

Oh, yeah. I like the core concept. I just think the implementation is horrible and very badly thought out/playtested. If they simply made it so that you could store charges between blocks, or that it didn't require a full uninterrupted consecutive fifteen blocks to reach charge, or that the effect lasted for closer to ten seconds rather than five, it would be better. The problem with it is that it's a neat idea which has been implemented in such a poor fashion that in any situation, the tactical choice between "Use Radial Blind" and "Just attack" favours the latter.

[Valthryn]

Just get rid of Frost's Avalanche while you're at it. And Chroma's Effigy. And Ash's Bladestorm (although DE is already in the process of tactical nerfing it) and pretty much every other AoE ability in the game that does what syndicate weapon procs do but better: kill things, which is almost all of them. As for it not making sense, nothing in this game makes sense. Even in a game about magical space ninjas, we have yet to find an explanation for how Excalibur's Exalted Blade forms without infinitely expanding out into oblivion because it's made of pure energy which can't be formed and contained without an external force.

[Ivan_Rid]

8 hours ago, Daggerpaw1 said:

Just get rid of Frost's Avalanche while you're at it. And Chroma's Effigy. And Ash's Bladestorm (although DE is already in the process of tactical nerfing it) and pretty much every other AoE ability in the game that does what syndicate weapon procs do but better: kill things, which is almost all of them. As for it not making sense, nothing in this game makes sense. Even in a game about magical space ninjas, we have yet to find an explanation for how Excalibur's Exalted Blade forms without infinitely expanding out into oblivion because it's made of pure energy which can't be formed and contained without an external force.

Its Void space magic. Syndicate bursts have nothing to do with Void space magic and are ruining consistency and the lore of the universe.

Syndicate bursts also rob you of gameplay, just like stray Ember, Simurage or Ash in a pub do, but for some reason people dont see that.

[Death_Master_]

On 10/4/2016 at 8:13 AM, Insizer said:

From the second syndicate weapons came out I have never been a fan of syndicate bursts. I think that they are ridiculous.

Most possible will be making them toggleable:

You don't want them - just turn them off.

I want those - i turn them on(except stealth missions).

[RacerDelux]

Ok, so please know the game mechanics.

The elemental AOE is silent now.

If we remove it from the weapons, all of the mods need it gone too, which in turn makes the many people who purchased the mod with plat quite mad. Same with the weapons. When you want to REMOVE a feature, it can have a much larger impact than you realize. When it comes down to it, this effect ceases to nuke rooms by level 40. It does not prevent you from playing the game, it is by no means OP, and removing it could cause many issues.

 

I would rather see DE focus on real issues instead of removing already implemented content. Look at the bigger picture.

[(XBOX)qcevolution]

On 10/4/2016 at 0:37 AM, Insizer said:

 The fact is that syndicate bursts ruin 99% of the game and are the most blatantly cheesy element in the game. Just because they stop being a room nuke once enemies hit level 100 doesn't mean they are good.

Lol how does that constitute a fact. :D

[DoomFruit]

No. I like the syndicate explosions. It's why I still use the sanctigris instead of the tigris prime. That explosion is pretty valuable to me.

[Insizer]

On 10/4/2016 at 1:09 PM, Chipputer said:

I have always felt that syndicate effects were only properly balanced in the case of augment mods. They're either too powerful or too weak and the only useful aspect of them tends to be the elemental proc and the buff they give.

Secura explosions are monstrous. Immediate radiation in a relatively high area? Maybe it's just because I main Oberon, but that makes me tingle in some special ways.

My understanding is that our explosions were meant to mirror eximus unit explosions. I have never agreed with this. Personally I feel that buffing the weapon for 30 seconds with the specific elemental that they currently explode with is a great idea. It would probably make them even more powerful than they were when properly used. 100% status is debateable though. Maybe 50%? If you have used a 100% status Tigris Prime then you should understand just how powerful 100% status would be.

Yes, if they were to remove the syndicate bursts then they would have to either take another look at the aug mods. That or they could replace the syndicate burst mechanic with something else, like a temporary damage buff or 100% status chance of a specific element, which plays independently of the weapon's status chance and such.

On 10/4/2016 at 1:42 PM, BornWithTeeth said:

Yeah, that sounds really interesting-

ABSOLUTELY NOT. NO GOD NO.

 

 

The Syndicate Melee weapons got released with passives which were conceptually interesting, but (by and large) mechanically terrible. The Vaykor Sydon is a good weapon with solid stats, and a sad joke for a Syndicate special ability. I can only imagine that if DE were to replace the Justice proc on the Vaykor Hek, their idea of an interesting Syndicate effect for it would be something like a 10% buff to its damage output while the wielder is at 10% health or lower. You know, conceptually interesting, but practically useless in actual play.

I too would like to avoid putting unique passives on weapons, because doing so will create some weapons with better passives than others.

On 10/8/2016 at 10:48 AM, IceColdHawk said:

Nothing in this game makes sense anyway.

Everything is called cheese nowadays. How is doing 1000 damage around you cheesy? No wait, how is that "one of the most blatantly cheesy things in the game"?

? So is the sancti tigris one of the weaker primaries because of only a corrosive proc? While Rakta Cernos is the obvious best? No, just no.

I see nothing wrong with it. First i want to say this makes slower weapons even more viable because it's a horde game (see rakta cernos). And at the same time it doesn't make the weapon itself redundant. Imagine Rakta Cernos exploding after every 3rd kill.

Why destroy things that don't need destroying? Let's make this game better. And not take unique and working things away. This case here is the very definition of "I wanna have it removed because it's cool and makes weapons unique and more effective". I like my syndicate weapons to be unique and booming. As long as they're not taking away all the gameplay or make me faceroll on my keyboard.

Yes, little makes sense in the game to begin with. We are space ninja puppets made by an empire with technology sufficiently advanced to make it look like magic to us. However, you are talking about an addition to a gun that makes you nuke your surroundings.

1. Why are syndicates, able to upgrade weapons (from other empires) with a small game changing device, but the Grineer and Corpus empires (which have infinitely larger resources and budget) are not?
2. If syndicates are able to make such weapons and mods with this gamechanging effect, then why have they not sunk more resources into mass-producing them? Rather than have some personal run through nodes and playing Easter Bunny.
3. If say the Corpus and Grineer couldn't upgrade these weapons this way, why have they not stolen and reverse engineered these them? It's not like syndicate weapons make warframes invincible.

I never said that the S.Tigris was weak, so I have no idea where you got that idea from. All I said was that syndicate burst elements are important when judging the weapons because they have different impacts, but it is a very silly thing on which to place importance on. "Well this weapon would be better, but the nuke it generates is ______ element, which sucks."

I can imagine it the Rakta Cernos exploding after 3 kills, because that's more or less how it is right now. It's a pathetic joke. The Rakta Cernos is already fit for a horde shooter as it charges in the blink of an eye. I've used it regularly for higher level Infested survivals, just cus. Look at the Secura Penta on the other hand, it takes more kills and fires much slower than the Rakta Cernos. The fact that it takes longer to build up a charge, plus its low firerate, makes it fall even further behind the other syndicate primaries which have more kills/min. 

But syndicate burst need to be destroyed, they, among other things, ruin gameplay by making everything a cakewalk. They are an anti-climactic tool which does the job of clearing rooms for you. How is that good for the game? It will make the game better to get rid of syndicate bursts.

We have 30 weapons (12 weapons and 18 aug mods) which all do the same thing: nuke the environment (syndicate bursts are not all they do, but they all do syndicate bursts). There is nothing unique about syndicate bursts are not unique rather extremely formulaic  and are a half-assed excuse for a "unique" attribute. I don't see how you see this case as a "I wanna have it removed because it's cool and makes weapons unique and more effective", because its not, frankly its pretty much the opposite. It is more the "exact definition" of "I want [syndicate bursts] removed because they are a formulaic bore and an anti-climatic, half though through passive nuke that cheeses through gameplay because it is, by design, broken." They take away from gameplay, perhaps not to the degree which you specify, but they nonetheless make things way too easy.

If you want your syndicate weapons unique then grab a syndicate melee or syndicate aug modded weapon; if you one that is booming then grab a S. Castanas; S. Penta; Suda modded Kestrel or Bolto; or Vaykor Hek, Meridian modded Hek, or S. Tigris (because boomsticks).

On 10/9/2016 at 8:08 PM, Daggerpaw1 said:

Just get rid of Frost's Avalanche while you're at it. And Chroma's Effigy. And Ash's Bladestorm (although DE is already in the process of tactical nerfing it) and pretty much every other AoE ability in the game that does what syndicate weapon procs do but better: kill things, which is almost all of them. As for it not making sense, nothing in this game makes sense. Even in a game about magical space ninjas, we have yet to find an explanation for how Excalibur's Exalted Blade forms without infinitely expanding out into oblivion because it's made of pure energy which can't be formed and contained without an external force.

See my point on not making sense above. But I'm not talking about AOE abilities, that is not in the purview of this discussion. Lets keep it on point.

On 10/10/2016 at 9:18 PM, RacerDelux said:

Ok, so please know the game mechanics.

The elemental AOE is silent now.

If we remove it from the weapons, all of the mods need it gone too, which in turn makes the many people who purchased the mod with plat quite mad. Same with the weapons. When you want to REMOVE a feature, it can have a much larger impact than you realize. When it comes down to it, this effect ceases to nuke rooms by level 40. It does not prevent you from playing the game, it is by no means OP, and removing it could cause many issues.

 

I would rather see DE focus on real issues instead of removing already implemented content. Look at the bigger picture.

Yes, I want Syndicate Bursts erased from aug mods as well. But yes, people would be pissy... if they didn't get something in return. So you could just add a different syndicate mechanism or give them aug mod effects a boost or something. Look at some of the suggestions on this thread.

But Syndicate Bursts are an actual issue because they cheese through gameplay with no effort at all. You do nothing but do what you were already doing (killing stuff) but then you nuke a room. DE has made a point to say that they are going to/trying to address cheese, and Syndicate Bursts are the poster child of cheese ; heck, I'm sure I've seen the Rakta Cernos and S. Tigris in ads for Kraft mac and cheese. I'd like to see DE deal with unaddressed issues too, but I also want them to look at already implemented things, especially when they are part of a "real issue". 

3 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

No. I like the syndicate explosions. It's why I still use the sanctigris instead of the tigris prime. That explosion is pretty valuable to me.

I haven't gotten the Tigris Prime because RNGesus hates me, but I can tell you that if I did have it, I will still use the S.Tigris for some things because of its health regen and health boost. Also, would you still use the S.Tigris if the Syndicate Burst mechanic was replaced with a temporary buff? I'm just against how syndicate bursts are chargeable nukes that cheese through 99% of content in the most anti-climactic way possible.

[RacerDelux]

22 minutes ago, Insizer said:

snip

If you are wanting to remove "Cheese" then you should be asking DE to remove all warframes. Seriously. In high level gameplay, cheese has nothing to do with the weapons, its all about abilities. In fact, most weapons cease to function after a while.

Yes, if you stick to non endless missions with lv 50 or below, it may feel powerful. Try starting an endless mission with lv 30 enemies, and let them get to lv 70. They have MUCH more health and armor. Go do this and come back and tell me how OP your elemental AOE burst was.

The enemies that can be killed easily by the burst can also be slaughtered by pretty much everything else in the game. Take away burst? Ok let me get my tonkor, torid, soma, boltor, penta, opticore, supra, paris/dread, kulstar etc... Honestly I use the syndacate weapons for the health gain, or energy gain. I could care less for the damage, because most of the time, it does nothing. (Though it does CC enemies, that can be useful).

Simply put, if you don't like the AOE proc, just don't use the weapon. It is as simple as that. It is by no means OP, does not impact gameplay negatively, and adds some useful effects. Some build are based around the bonuses gained from the proc, and that is a cool thing.

[Insizer]

2 hours ago, RacerDelux said:

If you are wanting to remove "Cheese" then you should be asking DE to remove all warframes. Seriously. In high level gameplay, cheese has nothing to do with the weapons, its all about abilities. In fact, most weapons cease to function after a while.

2 hours ago, RacerDelux said:

The enemies that can be killed easily by the burst can also be slaughtered by pretty much everything else in the game. Take away burst? Ok let me get my tonkor, torid, soma, boltor, penta, opticore, supra, paris/dread, kulstar etc...

Why would I ask DE to remove abilities? They are a critical component to the game and its gameplay, and DE tries to make them relatively balanced. I fully understand that eventually weapons fall off and the game becomes about suppressing enemies with abilities. But that is a different discussion entirely.

Regardless, both of these points of yours are irrelevant to begin with. We are discussing syndicate bursts, chargeable anticlimactic nukes, not abilities, nor weapons. The facts that eventually, abilities reign king and that there are other powerful weapons are inconsequential to this argument.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm brushing these points off, but I try to keep the scope of argument narrow, lest we ramble on tangents and tangents of tangents forever, leaving nothing resolved. If you want an example of two such tangents: "well maybe DE should fix those powerful weapons to not be so powerful." and "well maybe DE should fix how powerful abilities are." Both of those (regardless of whether I believe them or not) will lead to completely different and heated debates, neither of which this thread is about.

 

2 hours ago, RacerDelux said:

Yes, if you stick to non endless missions with lv 50 or below, it may feel powerful. Try starting an endless mission with lv 30 enemies, and let them get to lv 70. They have MUCH more health and armor. Go do this and come back and tell me how OP your elemental AOE burst was.

Good thing I regularly go to and play those difficulties you suggest. I'm fully aware of when syndicate bursts fall off, frankly, your estimate is fairly close to mine (but even then the damage it is helpful). However you are forgetting how badly the scaling system is. Your only argument is that at some magical level, a nuke doesn't kill or severely hurt enemies because they have a metric butt-ton of health and armor... what kind of argument is that? If you are getting to a level where syndicate burst damage isn't effective then 

 

2 hours ago, RacerDelux said:

Honestly I use the syndacate weapons for the health gain, or energy gain. I could care less for the damage, because most of the time, it does nothing. (Though it does CC enemies, that can be useful).

Good, I don't have an issue with the buffs and regens from syndicate weapons (look at the definition of syndicate burst which I started the thread with). I can tell you don't care about the damage, but it actually does quite a bit. For most content it not only makes content easier, but makes it virtually non-existent. The fact that you are saying it doesn't do much to begin with, says to me that:

1. you only play very high-level content, meaning that you have to first have to waste your time getting through easier content to actually play something "your level".
2. you don't care about syndicate bursts (defined by my first post, and the definition with which I still argue) to begin with.

If this is the case, then why do you even care to begin with whether syndicate bursts exist or not? The only part of syndicate bursts you care about is the radial stun "that can be helpful".

 

2 hours ago, RacerDelux said:

Simply put, if you don't like the AOE proc, just don't use the weapon. It is as simple as that. It is by no means OP, does not impact gameplay negatively, and adds some useful effects. Some build are based around the bonuses gained from the proc, and that is a cool thing

Not using the weapon is a legitimate suggestion. However, just because I don't use it doesn't mean that other won't, and that they won't be clearing entire rooms or damaging enemies with a ridiculous damage/status AOE that makes the entire mission a periodic series of anticlimaxes. One might reply "then don't play with others, or just play with your friends", to which I would reply "That isn't much of an argument. Rather than discussing the issue, you brush it off and say 'what's wrong with you?' Also, I don't have issues with players, just this silly excuse for a 'unique' attribute."

Also, it is OP (until you hit that magical level), and does negatively impact gameplay for the vast majority of content.

Finally, I wouldn't count a build that is built around a radial elemental nuke anything cool. Frankly, I'd call it fragile and poor design. While the ability to build around many facets of a game is good, the fact that the ridiculous syndicate bursts are a facet of this game is bad and the fact that they are strong enough to be built around is sad and only shows how strong they are and only furthers my point that these chargeable nukes of anticlimactic gameplay are bad.

[DiosGX]

You're upset that a weapon requiring a mastery level of 8-12 can nuke rooms of low level enemies?

 

Are they supposed to still pose a challenge to you?

[Insizer]

Just now, DiosGX said:

You're upset that a weapon requiring a mastery level of 8-12 can nuke rooms of low level enemies?

 

Are they supposed to still pose a challenge to you?

No, I'm not upset that kills low level enemies, rather it kills and/or maims enemies up to Sedna and past. I'm upset that syndicate bursts are the most, or one of the most, anticlimactic and boring pieces of cheese inserted into the game. They make little sense on multiple levels to begin with, and make even less sense that someone approved a mechanic that sounds like it came from a 1st grader ("You shoot the enemies and then everything goes booom!"). I'm not saying that everything needs to be nerfed to make mercury challenging, rather that high-level weapons should be rated for high level content because of the weapon itself and not because of a formulaic and boring chargeable bomb mechanism.

Furthermore, syndicate bursts only serve to create distinct tiers of syndicate weapons.

[DiosGX]

6 minutes ago, Insizer said:

 I'm not saying that everything needs to be nerfed to make mercury challenging, rather that high-level weapons should be rated for high level content because of the weapon itself and not because of a formulaic and boring chargeable bomb mechanism.

What if instead of a dmg reduction then, there was a cap on simultaneously-struck enemies? Like say 10 max, targeted at random.

[Insizer]

1 minute ago, DiosGX said:

What if instead of a dmg reduction then, there was a cap on simultaneously-struck enemies? Like say 10 max, targeted at random.

For the syndicate burst? No, I'd rather do away with it entirely. The mechanism makes no sense and sounds like the suggestion of a first grader. I'd be more fine with a temporary buff of some kind to the weapon itself.

[Mak_Gohae]

On 10/4/2016 at 1:37 AM, Insizer said:

Funny, I don't have that issue at all. I just find cover or make cover. What constitutes the "higher levels" you mention? All you are saying is that at some magical difficulty, having something that makes a cakewalk out of 99% of the game becomes mandatory. If you can't compete on these "higher levels" without requiring/exploiting the cheesiest of effects then perhaps the levels shouldn't exist at all, or perhaps you shouldn't be playing them. The fact is that syndicate bursts ruin 99% of the game and are the most blatantly cheesy element in the game. Just because they stop being a room nuke once enemies hit level 100 doesn't mean they are good.

Sortie bow only survival or defense with eximuseseseseses units. And before you say, pick the right frame, when you run out of mana or there are some leech units the only thing you have left is your bow until you regain your energy.

Everyone has asked for control over the burst but i think the reason that we dont have an activation button is because it will be even MORE cheesy. Because as it is now the burst can be wasted on nothing. If you could hold it to the right time you would be doing way more damage with it.

 

 

 

[low1991]

Just give syndicate weapons (melee, pri, sec) the elemental bonus & effect of their corresponding blast damage types.

Example:

Gun A does a total of 100. On full charged, Gun A now does 50% additional of the overall weapon damage, the elemental damage bonus based on the current blast into weapon damage. (Gun A 100+ 50 additional for x duration).

 

*bonus: During this duration, the weapon does a guaranteed elemental proc.

[DoomFruit]

19 hours ago, Insizer said:

I haven't gotten the Tigris Prime because RNGesus hates me, but I can tell you that if I did have it, I will still use the S.Tigris for some things because of its health regen and health boost. Also, would you still use the S.Tigris if the Syndicate Burst mechanic was replaced with a temporary buff? I'm just against how syndicate bursts are chargeable nukes that cheese through 99% of content in the most anti-climactic way possible.

Would I use it? Probably not. It destroys cameras when I finish a spy vault, I can time my kills just right on sabotages to blow the reactor instantly, and the explosion is generally good for taking the heat off me in tough situations. It's got utility. And lots of it.

Syndicate explosions do not cheese through 99% of the gameplay, not even close. Remember that for it to explode, you're already required to gain XP for it. That means either you kill with it (in which case the explosion doesn't matter, you're already doing damage) or someone else kills for you (in which case the explosion doesn't matter either, since someone else is doing the killing for you). They're little additions on top of the weapon. Sure, if I could hold down the trigger and fire off syndicate blasts instead of the weapon's normal shots, then it would be OP... either that or a spamulor, but that's another matter entirely.

You don't like syndicate explosions. Fine. Then don't use syndicate weapons. That's all you need to do. Don't ruin the game for those of us who do like it.

[low1991]

On 10/16/2016 at 9:57 PM, DoomFruit said:

Would I use it? Probably not. It destroys cameras when I finish a spy vault, I can time my kills just right on sabotages to blow the reactor instantly, and the explosion is generally good for taking the heat off me in tough situations. It's got utility. And lots of it.

You don't like syndicate explosions. Fine. Then don't use syndicate weapons. That's all you need to do. Don't ruin the game for those of us who do like it.

What utility does the syndicate blast have? Other than the personal buffs which i myself wants. Those elemental procs? pls throw them away along with the useless damage.

Dont like it?, sry i like syndicate wpn for their buffs, but not their spy-breaking blast. This is not a solution.

So it ruins my own personal game play, and i have no right to say anything or feeback? AWESOME!.

[DoomFruit]

4 hours ago, low1991 said:

What utility does the syndicate blast have? Other than the personal buffs which i myself wants. Those elemental procs? pls throw them away along with the useless damage.

Dont like it?, sry i like syndicate wpn for their buffs, but not their spy-breaking blast. This is not a solution.

So it ruins my own personal game play, and i have no right to say anything or feeback? AWESOME!.

What does it do? It has damage, which I like and which is far from useless. It inflicts elemental procs, which I also like. That's the purpose of taking a syndicate weapon - the explosion and its proc. Would you use a latron prime and complain that it's not full-auto?

[Gr33hn]

10 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

That's the purpose of taking a syndicate weapon - the explosion and its proc.

That's the purpose YOU take a syndicate weapon. 

If I had a choice to turn off the syndicate blast I probably would on most of the weapons.

Take the Rakta Cernos for example, it is my favourite bow that I would take on every stealth mission if I could, yet I never take it because the blast defeats the whole reason why i would use a bow in the first place, it ruins stealth.