Anndddd it's already October.

[draco]

and here i thought because of the long shadow TWW update was going to be released THIS BLOODY WEEK. 

GOD DAMN IT DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVVSSSSSSSSSSS

also, to note: i am not one of those haters. i LOVE EVERY UPDATE to warframe. but seriously? A MONTH MORE?!?!?!

[(XBOX)BULLS 0N PAR4DE]

 Yikes for us console players. You are hoping that the last TA will come this month. And our real update has no timeline what so ever. Man this is out of hand. I guess its OK in your mind to put this thread out but to be very honest this has to be one of the biggest blunders update wise that I can recall.

  It is what it is and time will pass. It is just unfortunate that this is killing the game for me.

[(XBOX)LexaHex]

16 minutes ago, NightBlitz said:

what if someone doesnt want it? you can choose to not use a sentinel, you cant choose to not use a warframe

3

Very easy fix if universal vacuum was added... 

Pause > Options 

under gameplay, select vacuum 

Turn off

[Soulivium]

I have to agree with some folks here who propose that the Vacuum innate ability should be applied to Warframes, not on Sentinels/pets. Perhaps even an Exilus Vacuum mod as a Warframe mod could've been a feasible idea?

As for War Within, I'd rather have the whole thing be executed in an awesome manner rather than for it to under-deliver. So, if it means I have to wait longer, I'm willing to do that and wait as patiently as I can.

Stay awesome, DE. Thank you for all the hard work you do. :)

[Fugana]

We dont need vakuum to be split nerfed or etc this is a grindy game ENAUGH SAYD! Vacuum must be inWarframe build 5 meters is ok for me but it should be build in the warframe 
in such a gryndish game vacuum is much needed 
 

[Rolhn]

Is it me or are the DE staff drunk or something? Cause last I heard they promised us that TWW will come out this week, or hypothetically promised us if they are to be believed anymore ever since they pushed it back from June/July to September/October, that is a four-five month gap of a promise yet to be delivered on. Just freaking tell us that you as a team are going to deliver The War Within on July 2017 so we can stop worrying about it.

 

And also as for the universal vacuum, it sounds nice and all but please keep it at 10-12m of suction power, and also make it for our kubrows and kavats, otherwise don't even make this vacuum universal.

 

Seriously at the rate of disappointment that you are shelling out to us fans by pulling and holding back promised content, you can expect people to be salty or jumping ship and leaving this game altogether and going over to not-warframe aka Destiny. Just don't but a No Man's Lies and promise us content and fail to deliver on it.

[ComfyOlivia]

1 hour ago, Zachles said:

So you think they're sitting on this one to piss you off? Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly it. Couldn't possibly be because they actually want to appeal to their players as much as humanly possible.

 

In my opinion, Digital Extremes tries too hard to please their players. If it's going to be anything short of perfect and that's the players general opinion, then they shouldn't even be trying. May as well just deploy an update riddled with bugs and glitches that make the game virtually unplayable. At least the content will be available to you to play, right?

Oh, but wait, they did that. And the community complained.

Can you not be satisfied? Or even mildly satiated?

I cannot even pretend to guess that I know why it's being delayed. There could be aspects of the update they haven't even teased. For all I know, it's the minor minutiae (addressing bugs, gameplay fixes, maybe some balancing) that they want to fix before deploying, I don't know. And to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it's a completely different game when it does deploy.

"So you think they're sitting on this one to piss you off? Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly it. Couldn't possibly be because they actually want to appeal to their players as much as humanly possible."

You either missed what I said or ignored it.

 

What I'm saying is that there's no reason it should take 5 months to make a quest without some major changes being made halfway through. It doesn't take a 200 employee company 7 months to make and record a 2 hour script, make models, maps, animations, program and code the various things, and then polish it. 

One call of duty game takes about 2 years to announce, develop, market, and then release. Granted, most COD games recycle a lot. However, COD is a triple A franchise.

Simply put: do the math.

Assume 7 people are constantly working on TWW (Seems a bit low considering the amount of employees DE has, but note that it's unlikely people just recording lines are going to spend 8 hours doing so). An average work day is 8 hours. That's about 56 man hours a day. Since the original delay, there's been around 90 work days. 56 hours a day for 90 days makes 5040 man hours. Minimum wage in Ontario is around $11.45 ([url=https://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/minwage.php]Source[/url]. So, $11.45 (I'm sure their employees make more than minimum wage, but w/e) for 5040 hours is $57708. That's a sort of lower end guess. Imagine those 7 people were paid the average for a software developer in London, Ontario, which is ~20 dollars an hour ([url=http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Software_Developer/Salary/5005127e/London-ON]Source[/url]).  That's about $100,800.

I could be completely off. I dunno. My point is that they're using a lot of resources for such a comparatively small amount of content. We would have received 2 major updates by now. Think of everything added between U16.1 and U18. Yes, they've still been putting out content, but nothing truly major like the systems coming with TWW. The problem is that we have only been getting stuff to distract us for the last year. Sure, there have been some major changes and such, but only one or two things on the scale of stuff like the sortie system in U18, or the Focus System in U18, or Parkour 2.0 in 17, or the Jordas Raid in 17.9.1, or any of the 3 events that happened during 2015.

I'm not sure if it's connected to TWW, but it seems like the majority of actual new content this year has been much slower in being developed and hasn't been the best.

 

 

I had already written a response to the rest of your comment, but the forums decided not to post it or save it, so I'm not gonna bother giving a full post. Here's a sum up:

 

"In my opinion, Digital Extremes tries too hard to please their players."

Your opinion kinda sucks, they'd not be doing their job right if they didn't focus on pleasing their players to the furthest possible extent. That's just how businesses work.

 

"If it's going to be anything short of perfect and that's the players general opinion, then they shouldn't even be trying. May as well just deploy an update riddled with bugs and glitches that make the game virtually unplayable. At least the content will be available to you to play, right?

Oh, but wait, they did that. And the community complained."

You're being silly. My three reasons being:

1. PC players are the smaller bug detectors. DE's bug team couldn't possibly cover even most of the issues past detrimental issues. I.E. PC players need to quit whining when an update drops and things are buggy, because that's what you get when you get an update a month before people on the consoles, who get the fixed updates. If bugs are your issue, become a console peasant.

2. The reason SotR was as broken as it was was because DE's team didn't get to properly fix because of things. There wansn't actually a lot of stuff going wrong. There was just a lot of people being affected. The issues affecting so many people were fixed within a week, which sort of ruins the argument of yet another month of delay meaning the update will get polished. Sorry, but more than a month of delay for "polishing" is bogus. They've had to redo a large part of the quest. Thus why they said the leaked scripts are no longer valid.

3. The community is going to complain either way. People have complained even when an update benefited them. Whether or not the community whines doesn't mean much. It's when the community is unified on a point that things actually matter. 

 

"Can you not be satisfied? Or even mildly satiated?"

If someone took 20 minutes to make you a simple lunch meat and cheese sandwich that you paid 5 dollars for, would you find it acceptable?

It's bad practice to judge everything based on one aspect. Yes, DE has been releasing small bits of content for the entirety of the last year, and very occasionally, we get something a bit larger. That's good. Does that excuse taking a 4 month task and making it take 8 months? No.

I'm not going to be satisfied if someone gives me bag of chips and then swiftly punches me. 

[HalfDarkShadow]

Can't wait for "The Index"! Definitely excited for that (:

__________________________

A side note, are we all reading the same post? Where did it say specifically that the Carrier's range will be reduced? All it mentions is that the others are specifically getting there own innate Vacuum mod at 5 ish meters. I mean if we're just assuming / it's implied I really wouldn't worry unless it was specifically stated otherwise.

Well, I guess I can't really say much since I haven't owned a Sentinel in a long time but my sympathies if it it happens to be the former concern.

[Shad0wWatcher]

Well...not mad...not even disappointed...just patiently waiting. Sensei says patience is a virtue. So patience i shall have. There's more to warframe than simple grind, farm and blazing through content and mastery, sometimes its fun to just chill with random folks in the relays and have the strangest yet hilarious conversations.

So keep up the good work guys! Love the game!

[Czin]

Don't Nerf Vacuum's range. At least grant us the fixed 10m range. Hell this should be a WARFRAME passive for all warframes just like you are implementing on sentinels. Also this won't change how often our furry friends will come out of the ice box. Oh well. I do aplaud at least granting it to all sentinels sans mod(s).

[Soral]

What's the reason for an entire month's delay AGAIN?

Edited October 5, 2016 by somegreenguy

[PsychoDraugr]

Another month for TWW? oh boy i'm not really sure if i can hold that longer without playing warframe. I guess ill login just to get the halloween color pattern...

[Brachion]

People keep acting like The War Within was going to come out this week, or that it had a solid release date that kept getting pushed back. Neither of these are true. DE has never given us a specific date, just that they "expected" it to release around a certain time. It's totally fine if you're frustrated that it's taking so long to come out, but please keep in mind that saying it's "delayed" isn't really accurate, since there was never a scheduled release date to begin with. DE just underestimated the time it's taking.

As for the vacuum thing, people need to take a step back and look at what's actually being changed. Every single other Sentinel, aside from Carrier, is getting a significant buff, whereas Carrier is either getting a nerf in exchange for a new ability, or isn't getting changed at all (it's not quite clear yet). In addition, making the range 5 meters instead of 12 helps soften the blow for Kavat and Kubrow users, since they aren't as overshadowed by the sheer utility of loot vacuum anymore.

[RenegadeJonesy]

I'm like Phil Collins with The War Within, I Don't Care Anymore.

 

I'll log in to get my daily, but that's about it. Maybe do the new event, but eh.

Edited October 5, 2016 by RenegadeJonesy

[Rhekemi]

@[DE]Steve , thanks for the update. Some thoughts.

Universal vacuum: Okay. I hope it will please a large portion of the playerbase and you'll work with them to improve it if it is unsatisfactory. I don't have much to say regarding this since I had a lengthy debate (against it) last year. We are where we are now, and you (DE) and the playerbase need to work together to make it work.

I will admit, though, that even a 5 meter pull may allow me to run my old favorite sentinels again (like Helios, which still has most of my usage, 31%, followed by Wyrm, but Carrier has the most XP).

The Index: I'm actually looking forward to playing this. I hate PVP. It is the devil. Period. However, Rathuum is a fun mode (for me) to play. 

The War Within: Okay. Personally, I'm fine waiting. Mostly because I'm super-casual. For perspective, I just finished the Jordas / Atlas quest two days ago, yet I started it months ago (stopped to work on beefing up Archwing, then just put it off). Atlas was released this time last year. LAST YEAR. I'm that casual. Wukong's built, but not leveled. Haven't even touched him. Inaros and Titania quests remain untouched as well.

I fall into the category of players who hasn't yet run out of things to do in WF. Some days the grind does wear me down (as in, do I really want to spend hours farming this one item or reputation for an item that will bring me needed plat?), and I'll just log off. Other days I stick with it. But I never have nothing left to do. (I play tactical alerts as soon as possible, as I did this past tac alert.)

That said, I fully understand those who have nothing left to do (because they've done it all, or because they're not interested in what they have left to do) feeling frustrated with the great delay before TWW.

The two biggest problems I see that remain unaddressed/that caused this frustration:

-Several quality of life changes, tweaks and updates to existing systems (and problems/issues) remain unaddressed, while the focus remains on the new quest. For players who want the much requested quality of life changes and tweaks to improve existing gameplay, the quest (and it's delayed launch) are frustrating.

-Players that actually are looking forward to TWW (a lot of players), are falling off the hype train. In my estimation, the problem is the hype train itself. The hype is unnecessary, especially when the ETA for product launch is poorly estimated (for whatever reasons, even very valid ones on your end). 

When you hype new content, you invite expectations from us as players. The more we wait, the more you talk about your ideas openly (especially when they're discussed as possibly game-changing systems) those systems often can't live up to the hype.

Sometimes we don't get an actual, solid idea from you on how something will work. Other times it's fluid. Sometimes it is solid and you follow through and it meets expectations. But overall, everything is subject to change. 

It's great that y'all are as involved in the community as you are, but the downside of the base being less forgiving for disappointing content (or pushed back content) remains. (As well s disappointment when they feel you listened to the wrong part of the feedback, or ignored their own.)

Your involvement does help me to see you all as human. Coupled with being a casual for life, I let go of stuff more often than not. With the exception of Tennogen items being Steam Wallet only. That one hurts every time I think about it.  The delay of TWW is one of those things that doesn't bother me because of my playstyle, and WF outlook. 

That said, I'm just one player. For the community's sake, and the game's, the logistics of hype trains need to be ironed out properly in the future. Please, make sure they run on time, and track with your actual progress of the actual product.

Once again, INB4 Hexalogy:

 

[HalfDarkShadow]

8 minutes ago, Brachion said:

As for the vacuum thing, people need to take a step back and look at what's actually being changed. Every single other Sentinel, aside from Carrier, is getting a significant buff, whereas Carrier is either getting a nerf in exchange for a new ability, or isn't getting changed at all (it's not quite clear yet).

This is what I was wondering as well regarding where others are coming from. All it was mentioned that the previous Sentinels will get a similar Vaccum mod that's innate. Nothing specifically stating that the Carrier is having its range reduced or vice versa; whichever it might be. So I see nothing to fret. Especially those who are in need of materials, I wouldn't worry unless it's stated otherwise.

Edited October 5, 2016 by HalfDarkShadow

[Zephyr]

5 hours ago, [DE]Steve said:

On PC, you can look forward to War Within more than a month away.

...But...but...but...

:(

[Himag0th]

Meaning unknown

5m is ridiculous.

[Gilmaesh]

The vacuum could have been on all companions with a universal mod or innate on the warframes just make an option to disable it for the players who like to manage their ammo drops or health drops or w/e.

Aside from that, the 5m look ok on your gif Steve, but did you try this vacuum in real condition, and by that i mean not in a closed test environment or solo where ping are perfect but in a normal multiplayer environment where players are affected by latency. Because, the base pick up radius of warframe is supposed to be 3m which work well in solo but become barely 1m or even less in a lot of missions in multiplayers... 5m looks small to be honest.

[F8ted]

Waiting until after all the vacations are taken care of before even trying. Just in time to use the holidays as an excuse. Wonderful. Just wonderful. Litterally taking care of a problem 2 years old, that amounts to flipping a switch. Instead of anything discussed or promised, here is another arbitrary event someone apparently had time to work on. Instead of what was promised every month since 4 months ago. 

[VelarozDosun]

Can we get the ability to have our kavat/kubrow join us simultaneously with the sentinels, then? Since they still don't get the vacuum ability themselves.

[Calwon5]

Dear DE,

I don't mind if The War Within is going to be delayed for however long it may need.... possibly like HL3. What I do mind is that, can you please just be honest with us. What I loved more than playing the game, was your dedication to connect with players; through DEV streams, streams, tennocon, etc. Except you're not doing it as of lately, either you(DE) are too busy to notify us of the exact progress of things or are just expecting a soon for an answer would be sufficient. Well frankly, it's not. If you(DE) need more time to work on TWW, then tell us so. Tell us the truth of whats going on with the cinematic. What is holding you guys back from releasing it. Instead of telling us it will come out soon the next month. Players will get hype near that end of the month and if you were too say "oh next month" again.... then it's just painful for both sides.

TL:DR: I don't mind the delays, but I'm frustrated that you are unable to tell us the truth of whats causing the delays, and instead kept of giving us the "soon" for an answer.

[Kinjeto]

6 hours ago, [DE]Steve said:

Tenno,

My last big Dev Workshop was in June and that means time for a follow up. What did I tell you last time? Our summer plans. What we were hoping to achieve with splitting out Updates. Where are we now? What's next? What's going on? Where's the last part of the update, 'The War Within'? How much Bourbon has been consumed?
 
You're asking me the same questions I'm asking myself. My team has been stupidly patient as we look back at Second Dream and scream 'we need to repeat that'. The pressure has been on all summer. We've had a summer of content and fixes go out, but the hype for big older brother (which we've hyped a lot) War Within just makes everything we've done feel… just less. Really I'm here to lay out October for you so you can get just excited about what's coming soon on PC.
 
This week on PC we bring you 'The Vacuum Within'. To be fair you've been waiting longer for this than the War Within, so maybe this is the real best of the year deploy. No, we're not having 3 Mods make up Vacuum. We changed it. Vacuum is going to be passively built into every Sentinel, no Mods required. It will have a range of 5 meters which in practice looks something like this WIP (pro-Lotus skills hitting an enemy behind the locked door):

 https://gfycat.com/TepidSlimAmurminnow

Later in October, The Corpus version of Rathuum is hitting PC. This game mode will be called 'The Index'. With it you'll get glimpse of Nef Anyo again! 'The Index' will feel a bit more classic DE in that it'll have an introduction to a new game mode with an Operation (clans rejoice), some Endless emphasis, and an event weapon!

On PC, you can look forward to 'The Vacuum Within' this week.
On PC, you can look forward to  'The Index' in October.
On PC, you can look forward to War Within more than a month away.  
 
And for Console Tenno,
 
The Long Shadow Tactical Alert is hopefully coming in October.
An interim build before The War Within that will include the Corpus style Rathuum.
 
Once The War Within is out our crazy 'break apart Updates' to bring you content faster will be heavily analyzed to see what it achieved. Many of our content creators appreciated us breaking things up for coverage purposes, but even that isn't enough to keep them around if the content itself didn't hit the mark.

So there's a glimpse, an overview, a few paragraphs that explain what's going on here these days. It doesn't do the team's passion justice, but giving you all information is the best way for us to work together. We'll talk more on the Devstream Friday, everyone.

 

Thanks,

Steve 

So Steve just hold up. Hold up 5 seconds.

I just want to know where you went in your logic with the decision to have it as a passive on all sentinels, but not consider user agency and user choice in modding the sentinel.

How did user choice in Sentinels get eliminated from the equation? How did you jump the gun in giving users options on what they want to vacuum up?
 

Quote

 

No, we're not having 3 Mods make up Vacuum. We changed it.

You might just want to slow down a bit.

Now I noticed recently with the Kavatt pet system and Kavatt abilities you've given user's options on top of Charm.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Loyal_Companion
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Animal_Instinct
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Pounce
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Swipe
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Sharpened_Claws
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Sense_Danger
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Pack_Leader
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Territorial_Aggression
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Shelter

Charm isn't a bad option because the randomization is always positive it might not be something you want, but, something that the user/player might find useful. (See from 1:07)
 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Animal_Instinct
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Sanctuary_(Mod)
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Regen
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Coolant_Leak
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Fired_Up
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Guardian
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Medi-Ray
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Self_Destruct

You've got all these mods for the Kavatt but only the above listed sentinel mods, what happens to mods like... What is going to happen to this?
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Looter

Wouldn't it be better to have the 3 mods or individual options for the end-user to configure as an option on what the user wants to pick up?
You could still have the universal vacuum at say 8 or 10 m and people could choose what they want to pick up
-- Pick up Energy Orbs
-- Pick Up Health Orbs
-- Pick Up Resources (Common, Uncommon, Rare or ALL Resources/Oxygen)
-- Pick Up Credits, Stars

You could still have Universal Vacuum on all your sentinels. You can still have your creative moment, Steve, but just stop don't jump the fence. Don't do a Digital Extreme knee-jerk moment, just slow down.
 

This is the most important one: (User Choice -- Which in our case is what would you like to pick up?.)
 

The most important one of all AGENCY and USER CHOICE. You can still give the player base a universal vacuum, crunch your metrics on the distance. I've noticed that 5 meters is the lower area and 15 meters is the up distance in Warframe.
 

Now Mogamu thinks you should "Build any way you want." and he's your number one fan -- At this point he's right.
Give it back. I don't want another repeat of 2013 and Zamboni, mate. The below video might just demonstrate why it was discussed with you in 2013.
 

Because we know where Mog is right now.

Come on, Steve. Think.

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Kinjeto

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, Razyda777 said:

put it on frames, then you help Archwing mode too.

"You're making this too eaaasy" - Vor 

[F8ted]

There is a simple reason the update schedule has been constantly delayed and ultimately why we are being told The War Within will not be arriving after this month. 

 

 

Unfortunately Development happens around this schedule. Hopefully next year will be a little more open. We shouldn't expect anything until about December.  

Edited October 5, 2016 by F8ted
Spoiler trouble