Why nerf vacuum?

[JohnMorte]

2 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

What nerf? Vacuum is being added to every single Sentinel. Of course they need to balance it so that all sentinels can keep their unique abilities while also having vacuum.

The only reason why Carrier had its large range was because the ability to vacuum was unique only to it. Now it's not unique.

 

You all asked for this. You know DE rebalances things. It's never going to be a total buff - there needs to be checks and balances. That's how developing a game works.

?????

vacuum is getting objectively nerfed. if every sentinel got the full vacuum there would be 0 complaints and the whole issue could die.

vacuum getting nerfed is not game development its just a huge quality of life removal. which I argue is the reverse of game development, since this is space ninjas in space, not "running around and collecting items simulator"

[Kyronz]

1 hour ago, Madway7 said:

In my understanding the current vaccuum change will be used as an experiment to see if people will actually use other sentinels more (and how much more) vs using Carrier and if Kubrows/Kavats usage will remain the same, be used more or less.

I am ok with this if what I understand is true and so long as it doesn't take too long to gather stats.

But I am mainly of the opinion that Vaccuum should be added to warframes with a slider in the option menu (basic current range, 5m and 10m).

one nerf piled upon many other nerfs all on top of a poorly thought out key revamp might be just one straw too many.   Most of the changes are geared toward making a poorer player experience and seem to have little reasoning behind them.

[(PSN)official_79]

22 minutes ago, MudShadow said:

They won't buff every companion to accumulate more loot because statistically they would be the reducing overall sales of resources from the store. 

the game already incentivises you to farm in game itself rather than buying from the store. In fact they WANT you to farm the resources out yourself as I believe was stated at one point.

If you want evidence look at the overpriced resources in the store vs the abilities that make farming easier (desecrate, pilfering swarm, etc) they clearly made it worth more your while to actually farm it

[Miser_able]

Btw DE has increased the range of the new vacuum from 5 meters to 6 which is just 1/2 of what it used to be which is not all that bad, if you look in game the difference between 6m and 12m is not a whole lot especially when you take into account the ability to have vacuum and other abiltys such as ghost or investigator as well.

[JohnMorte]

18 minutes ago, shadowfire380 said:

Btw DE has increased the range of the new vacuum from 5 meters to 6 which is just 1/2 of what it used to be which is not all that bad, if you look in game the difference between 6m and 12m is not a whole lot especially when you take into account the ability to have vacuum and other abiltys such as ghost or investigator as well.

the difference between 6 and 12 in game is actually massive

Edited October 5, 2016 by 3goats

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

27 minutes ago, shadowfire380 said:

Btw DE has increased the range of the new vacuum from 5 meters to 6

The new vacuum range just smells arbitrary and wishy-washy now. Also, I don't like the sound of "we want to measure usage"...is there some usage number where it leaves pooches and kitties without vacuum because "enough" people use them compared to each of the sentinels? What's the end goal here, less restrictive choices and a happier player base...or something else??? :(

[SoulEchelon]

1 hour ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

DE apparently thinks we should all be space-garbageman instead of space-ninjas. More tedium is surely to further improve the game.

This is probably the most exaggerated example of this "nerf".

A: If mods, ammo, and resources are trash to you, you shouldn't even care about this change.

B: I've yet to see a Warframe having to bend down and pick up any resource or item that could be vacuumed up.

 

These sorts of exaggerations don't add anything to the conversation. It only aggravates it and makes the situation seem worse than it actually is.

 

Btw DE has increased the range of the new vacuum from 5 meters to 6 which is just 1/2 of what it used to be which is not all that bad, if you look in game the difference between 6m and 12m is not a whole lot especially when you take into account the ability to have vacuum and other abiltys such as ghost or investigator as well.

This guy gets it. Every single Sentinel has their own special abilities PLUS Vacuum now. This is why Vacuum itself needed a nerf. You can't have the whole damn cake, folks.

Edited October 5, 2016 by SoulEchelon

[(PSN)official_79]

39 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

This guy gets it. Every single Sentinel has their own special abilities PLUS Vacuum now. This is why Vacuum itself needed a nerf. You can't have the whole damn cake, folks.

hot damn that is perfectly legitimate reasoning, I can't touch that. Other than I think the distance should be like 8m but thats another topic for another day

thnx fam

[EloreRainbrought]

For the coming year end bonus, that usually only give to the top performers in the company. We now give to the whole department, but instead of 100%, everyone in the department will get 1/6 . Let see if the top performers stay and work harder?

[JohnMorte]

3 hours ago, SoulEchelon said:

This guy gets it. Every single Sentinel has their own special abilities PLUS Vacuum now. This is why Vacuum itself needed a nerf. You can't have the whole damn cake, folks.

but it didn't need a nerf. nerfing vacuum solves none of the issues inherent with loot pickups and instead makes quality of life worse.

89% of every warframe player took carrier/cprime. there's a reason for it. vacuum was fine and it did not break the game in any way.

but hey. this change only really affects the newer players. vets like myself aren't really going to feel the burn.

how dare any of us enjoy the quality of life vacuum brought to us!

[Obviousclone]

the idea with it being 1/6 the size also hinges on the idea that you looking it from a spherical volume, and that you care about picking up loot behind you and above you.

 

maybe I'm playing the game wrong, but usually combat for me is shoot bad guys in front of me, then trample their corpse and picking up loot on the way. So I don't think it's really 1/6 area used in actual gameplay. Especially given that half the sphere is under ground if you are standing on the ground.

 

Although I am part of the set 3 who doesn't care about vacuum and doesn't think that this Quality of Life improvement is a mandatory thing. Personally, I honestly get by without vacuum and loot tends to not scatter everywhere for me, nor do I care unless it's a mod or blueprint or rare drop or reactant or star which are all highly visible and easy to walk over. But according to some of the calm and polite users in this thread my opinions/thoughts don't matter.

[UltraLYT]

Carrier's Vacuum is a great mod or function, while other sentinels' abilities aren't on the same level compared to Vacuum, that is why most people use Carrier.

Is it a common sense that one should improve other sentinels' functions, make them just as great, instead of destroying an originally great function?

Edited October 6, 2016 by modalmojo

[JohnMorte]

4 minutes ago, Obviousclone said:

the idea with it being 1/6 the size also hinges on the idea that you looking it from a spherical volume, and that you care about picking up loot behind you and above you.

 

maybe I'm playing the game wrong, but usually combat for me is shoot bad guys in front of me, then trample their corpse and picking up loot on the way. So I don't think it's really 1/6 area used in actual gameplay. Especially given that half the sphere is under ground if you are standing on the ground.

 

Although I am part of the set 3 who doesn't care about vacuum and doesn't think that this Quality of Life improvement is a mandatory thing. Personally, I honestly get by without vacuum and loot tends to not scatter everywhere for me, nor do I care unless it's a mod or blueprint or rare drop or reactant or star which are all highly visible and easy to walk over. But according to some of the calm and polite users in this thread my opinions/thoughts don't matter.

I have to take into account the spherical volume because of the incredibly mobile nature of warframes. it also comes into play because the sentinel actually isn't inside the warframe itself, and it hovers some meters above the ground and behind us, making the actual effective distance from your feet to the vacuum target around 4.5 meters or so.

I play nekros a lot, and when bodies continually ragdoll from allied abilities and weapons, I cant loot effectively when nekros descrates.

and I too used to never use vacuum, but I did have to run thief's wit so I could actually see anything in this game. the visual clutter in this game is massive and picking up necessary drops is hard, especially when you have terrible vision like me. vacuum was such a massive quality of life difference for me that my vision stopped being such a hinderance

[-TSA-TimSin]

26 minutes ago, Obviousclone said:

maybe I'm playing the game wrong, but usually combat for me is shoot bad guys in front of me, then trample their corpse and picking up loot on the way. So I don't think it's really 1/6 area used in actual gameplay. Especially given that half the sphere is under ground if you are standing on the ground.

 

There is no wrong way to play the game. But certainly you are playing the game different than 80% of the other players who used carrier and vacuum.

I do use bullet jump, double jump, crouch, roll. Everything in one "fly". I certainly use the "suck range" below me and above me when hitting the ceiling under a room where is loot.

And if you get by without using vacuum, why even defending a nerf to it even when it doesn't bother you at all?

EDIT:

27 minutes ago, Obviousclone said:

Personally, I honestly get by without vacuum and loot tends to not scatter everywhere for me

LOL, you have 66% usage on carrier/prime.

Edited October 6, 2016 by TimSin-EGT-

[Obviousclone]

Just now, TimSin-EGT- said:

There is no wrong way to play the game. But certainly you are playing the game different than 80% of the other players who used carrier and vacuum.

I do use bullet jump, double jump, crouch, roll. Everything in one "fly". I certainly use the "suck range" below me and above me when hitting the ceiling under a room where is loot.

And if you get by without using vacuum, why even defending a nerf to it even when it doesn't bother you at all?

okay so you're moving foward with those bullet jumps, same as I do

 

is there loot behind you that needs to be picked up? Cause that's half the sphere not being used. What gun are you using that let's you kill enemies both in front of and behind?

 

I'm not defending the nerf, I'm talking about the lack of practicality in the argument that the effective aoe of vacuum was nerfed to 1/6 effectiveness. Which it's not. You don't use the full sphere at all times. Loot doesn't drop that way (it's affected by gravity, unless there's some latency issues). The only way this does work, is if you jump into large packs of enemies (well, not necessarily land since you're using the full 360, and this also means there are enemies covering the air as well) and then using some nuke frame to aoe stuff down to get that loot onto that air in the first place, which from my experiences with pubs, is not how people play the game. They mostly play like I do, they shoot things in front of them until they are dead, or otherwise don't even bother with killing and run past. Of course this is from my perspective, but the way people play may be completely different. I'd be shocked if that playstyle was majority.

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

Simulor says hi!

[Ozamchist]

And honestly its so people would try to consider non sentinel companions (kubrows and kavats)

[-TSA-TimSin]

25 minutes ago, Obviousclone said:

okay so you're moving foward with those bullet jumps, same as I do

No, as i said I do use bullet jump, double jump, crouch, roll. I don't touch the ground inbetween. And with maxed Volt speed it's even faster.

I mostly kill enemies without having them in my cross-hair even once (Warframe abilities, aoe weapons.)

Obiously our play style is very different and this change hurts my playstyle. Would those 12m hurt yours? So why are you defending the 6m range then?

edit: i dont care how much the % of the nerf is. What remains is: it hurts my playstyle (and my fun) so i complain and you are defending it.

Edited October 6, 2016 by TimSin-EGT-

[(PSN)NomRoxNom]

1 hour ago, Obviousclone said:

okay so you're moving foward with those bullet jumps, same as I do

 

is there loot behind you that needs to be picked up? Cause that's half the sphere not being used. What gun are you using that let's you kill enemies both in front of and behind?

 

I'm not defending the nerf, I'm talking about the lack of practicality in the argument that the effective aoe of vacuum was nerfed to 1/6 effectiveness. Which it's not. You don't use the full sphere at all times. Loot doesn't drop that way (it's affected by gravity, unless there's some latency issues). The only way this does work, is if you jump into large packs of enemies (well, not necessarily land since you're using the full 360, and this also means there are enemies covering the air as well) and then using some nuke frame to aoe stuff down to get that loot onto that air in the first place, which from my experiences with pubs, is not how people play the game. They mostly play like I do, they shoot things in front of them until they are dead, or otherwise don't even bother with killing and run past. Of course this is from my perspective, but the way people play may be completely different. I'd be shocked if that playstyle was majority.

Most people I play with are just focused on getting through the mission as fast as possible.  One slide attack while sprinting and you are going to have a loot splosion behind your back.  With carrier as it was, (and still is on PS4) you just keep going and get all the tasty bits you just knocked outta the baddie pinatas.  Now, slam the brakes, turn around, stop being a ninja and do the little ballerina spin over the bodies.

 

What gun am I using to kill things behind me? Simulor, tonkor bounces, any melee weapon slide attack, any syndicate proc, Torid.. Those are just the ones that "I" use on a fairly consistent basis that kill things in a wide area.  

 

I just, overall, find the nerf to be unneeded, and a bit of a shot at the community.  "You whined long enough, here, take your universal vacuum, but hey, we're kicking all previous carrier users in the nerfy bits, have fun."  When I'm on PC, it slows down my gameplay by a fairly huge amount.  Constantly doing ballerina spins to get loot over bodies instead of moving on to the next fun pinata pile.  I'm actually faster on console with a controller getting through things now then I am with mouse and keyboard on PC.  :P  As you said though, this is from "my" perspective now.  The nerf actually impacts me quite a bit, and has changed the way I play, and I'm not a fan of 52 pick up. :(

[Ozamchist]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)NomRoxNom said:

Most people I play with are just focused on getting through the mission as fast as possible.  One slide attack while sprinting and you are going to have a loot splosion behind your back.  With carrier as it was, (and still is on PS4) you just keep going and get all the tasty bits you just knocked outta the baddie pinatas.  Now, slam the brakes, turn around, stop being a ninja and do the little ballerina spin over the bodies.

 

What gun am I using to kill things behind me? Simulor, tonkor bounces, any melee weapon slide attack, any syndicate proc, Torid.. Those are just the ones that "I" use on a fairly consistent basis that kill things in a wide area.  

 

I just, overall, find the nerf to be unneeded, and a bit of a shot at the community.  "You whined long enough, here, take your universal vacuum, but hey, we're kicking all previous carrier users in the nerfy bits, have fun."  When I'm on PC, it slows down my gameplay by a fairly huge amount.  Constantly doing ballerina spins to get loot over bodies instead of moving on to the next fun pinata pile.  I'm actually faster on console with a controller getting through things now then I am with mouse and keyboard on PC.  :P  As you said though, this is from "my" perspective now.  The nerf actually impacts me quite a bit, and has changed the way I play, and I'm not a fan of 52 pick up. :(

Except I don't what your talking about because with slide attacks I typically end up picking up items save for the ammo because... well that's pretty self explanatory.

[(PSN)NomRoxNom]

1 minute ago, TermiteFrame said:

Except I don't what your talking about because with slide attacks I typically end up picking up items save for the ammo because... well that's pretty self explanatory.

Jat Kittag, vulcan blitz, or any heavy with a good reach mod tagged on.  You can wipe out things way beyond 6 meters with a good spin attack, and moving fast enough, you blow right past the loot as Carrier usually takes a moment to pick things up.  If you haven't experienced it, you aren't going fast enough. :P   (GOTTA GO FAST!)

[Ozamchist]

Just now, (PS4)NomRoxNom said:

Jat Kittag, vulcan blitz, or any heavy with a good reach mod tagged on.  You can wipe out things way beyond 6 meters with a good spin attack, and moving fast enough, you blow right past the loot as Carrier usually takes a moment to pick things up.  If you haven't experienced it, you aren't going fast enough. :P   (GOTTA GO FAST!)

Oh please

[(PSN)NomRoxNom]

1 minute ago, TermiteFrame said:

Oh please

well if it never happens to you, you must always be host, or you are just special.  Not going to argue with you, as it's anecdotal from my point as much as yours.  I keep having to turn back for loot, you don't, good on you. 

[Darkvramp]

WHY DID YOU NERF VACUUM!! IT WAS @(*()&#036; FINE AS IS!!!! JUST MAKE IT UNIVERSAL< THAT'S ALL WE WANTED, NOT A @(*()&#036; NERF!! ITS NOT A GAME BREAKING THING,WHY THE F*** DOES IT NEED TO GET NERFED!!!

[SenorClipClop]

The update to vacuum. It's not done yet.

I know it sucks right now, but maybe let's wait 'til the dust settles.