The Vacuum Within: Hotfix 1

[Lucex]

Okay I logged in to see what this S#&$storm is all about.

So, I started a map, runned around, looted things etc. and guess what?

The vacuum is a lie! It's almost non existent!

 

Dudes, really, YES I can run around on the map looting my crap from the ground. YES I'm a lazy person that likes to kill stuff and don't think about looting stuff all the time (specially the loot UNDER THE MAP...) and this was the only reason why I got the carrier prime. Before, I was a Kubrow fan.

So I say the experiment failed. I'm not S#&$talking it, it's a nice idea to give every sentinel vacuum, but in this case: What vacuum?

For me, there is now a vacuum IN MY HEART.

 

Long live the Kavat and Kubrow imperium!

PS: hope the pseudo-vacuum for them comes soon. At least they run around on the map.

[Xzorn]

12 minutes ago, -Fe-McHamm3rShot said:

I agree, the other companions are poo poo sauce.. You nerfed the good one, so all the sucky ones are what? Less sucky?  

Carrier was used 80% beacause of the 12m vacuum.  Now thats gone..  all hail poo poo sauce!!

 

He was used even beyond that though. Carrier Prime has 2,874 eHP. He survives mistakes far better than other Sentinels and Sentinels survive far better at high level than Cats or Dogs which run head first into rockets. Carrier's eHP translates into more Guardian Procs, more Medi-Ray and more support CC via Sweeper which is far more reliable than other Sentinel's abilities.

He's just a better support and that's all companions are good for due to scaling.

[superbot34]

I feel the range should be no more than 8 meters, because 6 still feels pretty short, i mean go in game and place a waypoint and back up until it says 6m. It's pretty darn short. Appreciated on all sentinels sure, don't get me wrong, but half of the range it used to be is a bit harsh for something they don't constantly do anyway (as they have precepts too)

[-Fe-McHamm3rShot]

1 minute ago, Xzorn said:

He was used even beyond that though. Carrier Prime has 2,874 eHP. He survives mistakes far better than other Sentinels and Sentinels survive far better at high level than Cats or Dogs which run head first into rockets. Carrier's eHP translates into more Guardian Procs, more Medi-Ray and more support CC via Sweeper which is far more reliable than other Sentinel's abilities.

He's just a better support and that's all companions are good for due to scaling.

Excellent points mate.

[----AncientHunter----]

i do have many funny name to call.. upon this useless content.

should i post it ?

 

[-Imperius-]

Vacuum within :) Nice one! Now please please please with a cherry on the top fix the void! I've basically stopped playing since the relic system.

[Shockwave-]

16 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

You also fix things that cause bad habits in game play. Mag's original greedy pull was "good". But it also encouraged extreme camping habits. In all, carrier was just a long overdue problem. It should have had something done about it long ago but it became rooted. You may not care for the sentinels, but at least I can make good use of them.

It wasn't a problem. They could have left it alone, it was working fine. Nobody wanted the range nerfed. Everyone would be happier with 12.5 on all the sentinels. Everyone would be happier with 12.5 on carrier itself and 6m on the others.

 

[vjhawk]

1 hour ago, Schrodingers_Bodybag said:

Aw great, look at all that polymer scattered all over the floor. 

*Looks angrily at Carrier just floating there* 

You gonna help me pick this up? No? 

*Grumbles*

*Bends down and starts picking up the pieces* 

 

"I'm sorry Tenno, that polymer is outside of my vacuum range now."

Edited October 6, 2016 by vjhawk

[Xianos_Chaos]

I see you added more noggles to the store, when are we gonna get prime noggles?!

[Loswaith]

Thanks for the update and hotfix DE.  We do appreciate it despite the following.

"All Sentinels now have a passive 6 meter Loot Vacuum, no Mods required!"

I'm guessing you really don't really understand that players use vacuum because they want a game where they go about shooting, stabbing, chopping and eviscerating enemies not about chasing dropped loot.  While vacuum let us, essentially, passively collect the dropped loot leaving us to focus on chasing enemies not loot.

 

As to recourse and other drop ship decorations, please let us use these in the Dojos as well.  Dojos (that were meant to be our homes) are otherwise forgotten for the landing ship that is the effectively the 'car'.  Beings don't put the all their trophies in their vehicles.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Loswaith

[DarkOvion]

1 hour ago, Scorntorrent said:

People are complaining about vacuum too much, you guys just want everything handed to you on a silver platter? we all know everyone just tries to blitz to the end of every mission as fast as possible, if you want to call that playing.  People that are willing to take the time to explore to find additional loot deserve more loot, not being rewarded for being lazy, may as well remove 90% of the map and make every mission a straight corridor.

i appreciate the update

It's not a 'little bit of a reduction' though.

We've gone from a 12 Meter Sphere (7238.23 units) to a 6 Meter Sphere (904.78 units).
That's a reduction of 87.5% effectiveness.

That's an almost 90% reduction to one of the greatest quality of life pieces in the game.

This means it will take 8-10 times longer to pick up loot.

This means if you need items, it takes longer and disrupts the flow of the game as you have to stop and loot.

The Green sphere is 12M in size, the red sphere is 6M in size.

Not the significant amount more space filled by the 12M sphere.

14 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

Connecting having to walk a few steps as "increased grind" is a stretch as it is. I've done runs with the new vacuum using nekros. Still making around the same as usual in terms of pickups. I could understand maybe bumping the vacuum radius up to 8 meters, but reverting it back to 12 is not necessary. Needing that much range is just lazy.

It's not entirely released grind, but it will take 8-10 times longer to collect items.

Even 10 Meters is a 43% nerf to its effective range, 8M would be a 71% reduction.

 

8 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

With that mindset, how does a larger vacuum radius have anything to do with improving the game as well? All it does is save a few seconds of movement and maybe allow players to stay entrenched in areas without having to leave to collect loot. 

Quality of Life.

Being able to simply loot as you play, rather than having to dedicate a significant portion of play time to collecting loot massively improves quality of the game and enjoyment.

Having to break the flow of gameplay to stop and loot (having to make 2-4 trips down a hall instead of 1 as you go past) isn't fun.

This is ultimately another case of DE saying they will improve the quality of life and reduce the grind, but making it worse by a factor of double digits!

[0meg4x]

1 hour ago, WingGun said:

Wut's the range on the vacuum on archwing? It's hardly 12 meters I think...so yeah...Why didn't we complain about the vacuum in archwing, in the past?

The answer is simple: Because no one plays Archwings.

[_sheepy_]

Only got nekros prime accessories last week and now i'll be stopping playing.

Sick of supporting a game developer that craps on it's own community like this.

NO NEED TO ADD MORE GRIND!

[Campaigner]

Give us a companion mod that increases the vacuum range please. 

[Gilmaesh]

What are you doing with the timer in solo? It was 4sec before for starting a game, then it was changed to 11sec when you added a button to skip waiting player in multiplayer mode, then now 10sec. Can we please go back to 4sec, there was absolutely no reason to increase it.

Please also add a skip option to relic reward in solo like the one for the end mission screen, pretty frustrating to stare at a forma for 15 sec...

As for vacuum, given the latency error on loots, add  2 or 3 more meters, the current one is too small and allows no margin error. I'm ok with 2 or 3 meter less compared to the old one, since you absolutely want to slow us down in missions but the nerf on vacuum is overkill.

[KunoUshinawa]

Just now, superbot34 said:

I feel the range should be no more than 8 meters, because 6 still feels pretty short, i mean go in game and place a waypoint and back up until it says 6m. It's pretty darn short. Appreciated on all sentinels sure, don't get me wrong, but half of the range it used to be is a bit harsh for something they don't constantly do anyway (as they have precepts too)

I agree, 6 feels a little short and I think 8 would be perfect, the reasoning: 6 meters with a squish frame I.E. Nova or Hydroid is going to hurt a lot, 8 ups weaker frames survivability while looting in enemy dense areas. Also maybe an increase in suction speed? I think a 20% increase in suction speed would be great it just seems a little sluggish right now.

Also:

Edited October 6, 2016 by Uzkost

[Newerton]

2 hours ago, Babellon said:

Vacuum is 6m, that wasn't a typo people. That thread someone is posting about it really being 12 meters on steam is false. There are no extra mods, the idea was scrapped in favor of universal 6m vacuum on all sentinels. 

I reiterate what I said before, that 6m universal is great. I finally can use other sentinels and still get the convenience of picking up loot around me without clicking. Peoples biggest complaint is having to walk a few more pixel meters to do so. In the grander scheme of the game its excellent. DE I am again encouraging you to hold to it, please don't revert it like with fissures..It doesn't need to be 12 meters. It doesnt need to be 10 meters. Of cours, you're the Dev's so do what you think is best, but that's I think the key pont I've been making for a week now, do what YOU think is best, not simply what players demand. 

Love the change. Like the new skins. Look forward to whats coming soon. 

You are totally wrong! The game is for the players, they have priority in the feedback, the game is at this level, because of the players.

6m is very little, with the Mod Vaccum, the maximum was 12m, why not let us 12m?

[Tesseract7777]

All of the people calling it a vacuum nerf... you look ridiculous, just thought you should know. 

You make no sense. It is being added as a passive ability... that requires no use of a mod slot. Of course it won't be as strong in that case... or would you rather it take up a mod slot on every sentinel, just so you can have a little more range on your utility mod? 

Is it hurting your collective Ash builds that it's now harder to bladestorm and afk-pickup energy orbs so you can essentially keep spamming BS from the same spot, because vacuum range isn't as big? Cry me a river. lol. 

[Babellon]

2 minutes ago, Newerton said:

You are totally wrong! The game is for the players, they have priority in the feedback, the game is at this level, because of the players.

6m is very little, with the Mod Vaccum, the maximum was 12m, why not let us 12m?

lol you really believe the player is in charge of the game don't you?

[KunoUshinawa]

Just now, Newerton said:

You are totally wrong! The game is for the players, they have priority in the feedback, the game is at this level, because of the players.

6m is very little, with the Mod Vaccum, the maximum was 12m, why not let us 12m?

 

Just now, Newerton said:

the game is at this level, because of the players.

 

Just now, Newerton said:

because of the players.

I didn't realize I had been writing code while playing... Damn I'm good

[Arrendee]

Insane Vacuum NERF.. You would think DE hates it's customer base.. 6 meters, really? When DE hits something with the NERF bat, they kill it..

[Tesseract7777]

3 minutes ago, Newerton said:

You are totally wrong! The game is for the players, they have priority in the feedback, the game is at this level, because of the players.

6m is very little, with the Mod Vaccum, the maximum was 12m, why not let us 12m?

Yup, the game is for the players, and you are just one of them. It is amazing how ridiculous your post looks. You are sitting here saying that "they should do what the players want" while arguing with a player who wants something different from you. Do you not see how this is silly? 

Lots of people are giving the opposite feedback from you -- they appreciate the change and think 6m is balanced since it is now a passive and doesn't take up a mod slot. Just because you disagree doesn't make him wrong, and yes, player feedback is important, but yours is not the only feedback. Don't just assume the majority agrees with you because a few whiners are loud. 

Most players appreciate this change and likely find it quite balanced. 

[Newerton]

1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Yup, the game is for the players, and you are just one of them. It is amazing how ridiculous your post looks. You are sitting here saying that "they should do what the players want" while arguing with a player who wants something different from you. Do you not see how this is silly? 

Lots of people are giving the opposite feedback from you -- they appreciate the change and think 6m is balanced since it is now a passive and doesn't take up a mod slot. Just because you disagree doesn't make him wrong, and yes, player feedback is important, but yours is not the only feedback. Don't just assume the majority agrees with you because a few whiners are loud. 

Most players appreciate this change and likely find it quite balanced. 

Not discussing what a player. Everybody wants! This is called feedback from players! If 80% is not satisfied, the company has to review the problem.

[DarkOvion]

2 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

All of the people calling it a vacuum nerf... you look ridiculous, just thought you should know. 

You make no sense. It is being added as a passive ability... that requires no use of a mod slot. Of course it won't be as strong in that case... or would you rather it take up a mod slot on every sentinel, just so you can have a little more range on your utility mod? 

Is it hurting your collective Ash builds that it's now harder to bladestorm and afk-pickup energy orbs so you can essentially keep spamming BS from the same spot, because vacuum range isn't as big? Cry me a river. lol. 

It's an 87% reduction in effectiveness.

87%.

And sure, have this pittance of a vaccuum as a passive - then let Carrier retain a Vaccum Mod, adjust it for +6M, it's the same as before - everyone is happy.

 

But saying that such a huge nerf, requiring 8-10 times more travel to collect loot and pointlessly slowing the game down is good and balanced is just silly.

[Oni-Kenshiro]

Thanks guys, 6m is decent enough for all sentinels, and the Ammo Case for the carrier is freaking awesome. Dont have to even use Rifle Ammo mutation, while it increases the ammo convert chances the Carrier does it with no worries.

Thanks again!