Vacuum Experiments: Failure & Successes

[Pyus]

This is one of the best possible outcomes. Please, please don't ruin it. 

 

btw, ammo carrier with Vacuum is now meta and required for all content. 

[OniDax]

2 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Vitriol does not enact change. The constructive feedback was what pulled us to make this change. The Vacuum Within was an experiment (as mentioned above) and it doesn't always result in a favorable manner. Together we positively move forward and continue to make Warframe bigger and better!

I'll take your word for it, but I'm not sure I've seen you guys move faster in changing something seen as a nerf by the community. There was a lot of constructive feedback that was also clearly-expressed anger at your "experiment." Anyway, thank you for listening to the community.

[Aerensiniac]

A lot more positive change than the previous one which basically screwed vacuum as a whole. Thank you.

Albeit i still dont really understand why it would be a problem to have this as it is, unchanged on warframes as a passive. But regardless... the current change is a step in the right direction.

Just now, Pyus said:

btw, ammo carrier with Vacuum is now meta and required for all content. 

I loled but... its actually true <_<

Edited October 6, 2016 by Aerensiniac

[Mak_Gohae]

16 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Dearest Tenno,

It’s been 3 years of Carrier dominating the Vacuum business, and only recently we've even started a dialog on a topic you've brought up frequently. Experiments (such as The Vacuum Within) typically have 2 sides- you either fail or you succeed. Our previous idea to have universal Vacuum be a 3 Mod makeup was proposed on Devstream #80, to which we then scrapped after acknowledging the copious amounts of “please don’t do that” feedback.

From that, our new idea was to have Vacuum built into every Sentinel with a reduced range. Upon reading the constructive feedback from our Community about The Vacuum Within, it was clear we needed to make some tweaks- and here we have experimental Mutation X! Vacuum is now an equippable Mod (Precept) for all Sentinels. We have also increased the range from 6m to 12m at max rank. All current Sentinel owners will receive this Mod instantly, as well as retroactively with every Sentinel crafted or purchased- much like other default Precepts.

With that being said, we appreciate those that kept the feedback valuable and refrained from death threats. We changed something precious to you, and we will continue to change where needed as we listen to the Community.

PC players can expect this today- stay tuned!!

OMG stop it!

This horrible. Seriously, h o r r i b l e.

Pick something and stick to it and see what actually happens instead of hopping from thing to thing because people KNOW that you do this when any amount of complaining happens. Seriously, there's a Reddit thread about this where the top comment just says that the range will be back to 12 by the end of the week if they continue to complain. And they were right, you actually did it. The new thing was there just one day.

The free passive to all Sentinels was fine. I mean, seriously, what tremendous amount of traveling do people do to pick up stuff? They enemies are in front you 90% of the time. You will walk pass the loot, anyway.

Dont really know why you come up with plans on how to do something when you throw them away the second they are implemented and just go on to do what people were asking for.

 

[Guapscotch]

we did it reddit

Thanks for finally listening to us for once, now about kubrows and kavats....

[Kasarian]

Just now, Pyus said:

This is one of the best possible outcomes. Please, please don't ruin it. 

 

btw, ammo carrier with Vacuum is now meta and required for all content. 

No it's not. Put ammo mutation on a weapon and run with whatever sentinel you want -_-

[notlamprey]

Thanks, Meg.

Looking forward to testing this latest Mutation; until then, I hope you folks know how much we appreciate feeling heard.

 

[PrimumMobile]

You guys just don't get it, do you? Sentinels have nothing to do with vacuum. Everyone that's hooting and hollering and blindly accepting everything that's happening needs to stop.

1. Once again, you've neglected kubrows/kavats. I personally don't care for them that much, but this much is obvious.

2. We have to depend on sentinels still for this very simple, basic quality of life improvement that was mistakenly on carrier for longer than it should have been. Now everyone is convinced that it must absolutely positively have something to do with companions. Well let me just put it this way: When your sentinel dies, so does vacuum. Does that solve the problem? No, it does not. 80% of the community doesn't use carrier because carrier looks cool-- its the mod that was tied to carrier that made playing the game more enjoyable for 80% of people, vacuum.

3. "Vacuum" shouldn't even be a passive on sentinels or companions. Vacuum should never have even been considered a mod, let alone 3 separate ones. Vacuum should just be a simple thing that happens that is tied to our warframes. Now, once again, we are not allowed to play without sentinels if we want this quality of life improvement. It would be very simple to please the not 80% of people who never used carrier by making the vacuum passive on Warframes a toggle in our options menu. From there, for  those groups of people clearly in the minority, you can select what you do and do not want "vacuumed" to you. That's it. If picking up excess energy/health bothers them that much, come up with a system that stores excess energy and gives it back when they need it. I don't know, that's never been an issue or concern with me at any point in this game from when I first started playing to 1000+ hours later.

This never should've blown up the way it has. Such a simple problem had a very simple solution and yet, its clear that too many people are missing the bigger picture here. No one really cared about carrier, people cared about what carrier did. It picked stuff up. It made the game fun while everyone moved across the different tilesets at a fast pace. There is absolute no downside to allowing warframes to have this passive. This will remove the asinine discussions around it being a "mod" or a passive on just sentinels. And, with the ability to turn it on and off in options, everyone is happy.

[DeMonkey]

Thank you. Optional and 12m.

It's beautiful!

[Gunstray]

1 minute ago, -IEF-Rei said:

because DE probably want that kinda system where "you can use A but there is still a consequences" thing

That literally makes no sense in this regard. Thats like having to breathe but you're not allowed to exhale.

[MokutoBunshi]

Just now, Kasarian said:

No it's not. Put ammo mutation on a weapon and run with whatever sentinel you want -_-

yeah...ammo mutation has always been meta....its just easy.

 

]\'[

[alltaken]

Now I've seen it all: DE reverting a design decision and rolling out a patch in less then 24 hours...

Good change!

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

19 minutes ago, Pyus said:

This is one of the best possible outcomes. Please, please don't ruin it. 

 

btw, ammo carrier with Vacuum is now meta and required for all content. 

Yup lol wonder if they considered this

.

.

Kinda cements Carrier Primes spot as top dog again. ?

- Has the stats to last the longest, since companions die insanely fast lol.

- Has the ammo perk so free up spots on those heavy ammo chewing guns.

- Still looks good using that vacuum. ?

Edited October 6, 2016 by (PS4)Mofojokers

[RoadGGG]

Honestly I'm fine with this, but also not fine with this for two reasons:

1) People acted like a bunch of babies over the change. Rather than suggest it with constructive criticism and a clear head. Ask nicely and be calm? Heck with that,just  whine and moan 

2) It still doesn't solve the issue of Kubrow/Cavats not having their own vacuum. Personally, I'd say just give the warframes the Vacuum thing.

Edited October 6, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed rude quoted comment

[Jeahanne]

1 minute ago, AntoineFlemming said:

I'll take your word for it, but I'm not sure I've seen you guys move faster in changing something seen as a nerf by the community. There was a lot of constructive feedback that was also clearly-expressed anger at your "experiment." Anyway, thank you for listening to the community.

This isn't the first time DE has done something like this, nor is this even the fastest change. Anyone else remember how fast Auras changed when they were first released? I'm not sure the first iteration even lasted 8 hours. Or how about the horror that was the original arc traps, that were lamps on the ceiling? DE changes stuff all the time. This isn't the first time change like this has come, nor will it be the last.

[Kaotyke]

Just now, alltaken said:

Now I've seen it all: DE reverting a design decision and rolling out a patch in less then 24 hours...

Good change!

You were not here for Viver's infamous Excal/Mag Changes were you?

[OniDax]

Just now, Jeahanne said:

This isn't the first time DE has done something like this, nor is this even the fastest change. Anyone else remember how fast Auras changed when they were first released? I'm not sure the first iteration even lasted 8 hours. Or how about the horror that was the original arc traps, that were lamps on the ceiling? DE changes stuff all the time. This isn't the first time change like this has come, nor will it be the last.

I've never seen things change this fast, nor have I seen such a widespread opposition to something DE's implemented.

[brytur]

DE, why not make it available to all companions, not just sentinels? Maybe then the 80-odd% of players that use carrier will actually use the kubrows/kavats that you spent all that time making.

Also, as Quiette Shy said in her most recent video, all sentinels, save for Carrier Prime, are too damned squishy to be worth using.

Better yet, why not make it a warframe passive?

1 minute ago, TacitCensure said:

Vacuum should just be a simple thing that happens that is tied to our warframes.

 

11 minutes ago, MokutoBunshi said:

Why isn't there a passive vacuum on warframes to begin with? Why do we need sentinels to have this but kubrows/kavats and non-pet uses (I cant use them on stealth runs) don't get it?

 

[MokutoBunshi]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

Yup lol wonder if they considered this

.

.

Kinda cements Carrier Primes spot as top dog again. ?

well....even with the passive by this reasoning he was still top dog...

 

]\'[

[The.Red.King]

1 minute ago, MokutoBunshi said:

yeah...ammo mutation has always been meta....its just easy.

 

]\'[

Well, Ammo Case makes Ammo Mutation mods useless again and is a Carrier SPECIFIC mod so people are STILL going to use Carrier

 

3 minutes ago, TacitCensure said:

You guys just don't get it, do you? Sentinels have nothing to do with vacuum. Everyone that's hooting and hollering and blindly accepting everything that's happening needs to stop.

1. Once again, you've neglected kubrows/kavats. I personally don't care for them that much, but this much is obvious.

2. We have to depend on sentinels still for this very simple, basic quality of life improvement that was mistakenly on carrier for longer than it should have been. Now everyone is convinced that it must absolutely positively have something to do with companions. Well let me just put it this way: When your sentinel dies, so does vacuum. Does that solve the problem? No, it does not. 80% of the community doesn't use carrier because carrier looks cool-- its the mod that was tied to carrier that made playing the game more enjoyable for 80% of people, vacuum.

3. "Vacuum" shouldn't even be a passive on sentinels or companions. Vacuum should never have even been considered a mod, let alone 3 separate ones. Vacuum should just be a simple thing that happens that is tied to our warframes. Now, once again, we are not allowed to play without sentinels if we want this quality of life improvement. It would be very simple to please the not 80% of people who never used carrier by making the vacuum passive on Warframes a toggle in our options menu. From there, for  those groups of people clearly in the minority, you can select what you do and do not want "vacuumed" to you. That's it. If picking up excess energy/health bothers them that much, come up with a system that stores excess energy and gives it back when they need it. I don't know, that's never been an issue or concern with me at any point in this game from when I first started playing to 1000+ hours later.

This never should've blown up the way it has. Such a simple problem had a very simple solution and yet, its clear that too many people are missing the bigger picture here. No one really cared about carrier, people cared about what carrier did. It picked stuff up. It made the game fun while everyone moved across the different tilesets at a fast pace. There is absolute no downside to allowing warframes to have this passive. This will remove the asinine discussions around it being a "mod" or a passive on just sentinels. And, with the ability to turn it on and off in options, everyone is happy.

The passive idea is great. The little passive thing that was going on with Sents (i.e. My Dethcube had no vac mod on and was picking up items) was okay as well, but still they gotta make it a mod. Again. Same mod, just says Sentinels now. GG DE

[Toquette]

1 minute ago, Venom-Snake said:

You were not here for Viver's infamous Excal/Mag Changes were you?

ah the old controversial Viver

[Brian_Paone]

Oh, there's a failure here, all right. A few. But it's hard to say that the vacuum changes were one of them, since they were reverted in less than 24 hours. 

 

One of the failures was the total lack of reasoning behind the 12m-to-6m change. There was every bit of explanation as to why vacuum was becoming universal (to make the other pets more viable as options for players), but DE, you guys utterly failed to explain this simple adjustment and, predictably, your vocal minority went nuts.

And now you're going to cave in? I hope you got the data you needed to judge whether or not this was a success. I don't see how, but I don't work behind the scenes so I don't know.

[Chipputer]

6 minutes ago, Pyus said:

btw, ammo carrier with Vacuum is now meta and required for all content. 

Sad but very true. People might use more sentinels now, but the vast majority are going to stick with free Ammo Mutation.

One step forward, two steps back.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

14 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Vitriol does not enact change. The constructive feedback was what pulled us to make this change. The Vacuum Within was an experiment (as mentioned above) and it doesn't always result in a favorable manner. Together we positively move forward and continue to make Warframe bigger and better!

It was a good experiment, 6 meters stock was a success. 0 meters without a mod is a failure just like how Vacuum being carrier only was. This only limits diversity and creates another mandatory mod.

Guess anything is constructive feedback now? Even misused numbers and tears? I kinda of feel ashamed of this community now and will most likely refrain from giving detailed feedback from now on, since if 1 phrase is enough, no need to make detailed posts. Inciting riots seems like the new thing now, and sadly it works.

Can we have the next step removing drops altogether? There's no point in clogging my view with drops that I will get anyway, automatically add them to the inventory when the enemy dies, since picking stuff isn't a gameplay element anymore, the dropping mechanic is no longer needed.

Edited October 6, 2016 by God_is_a_Cat_Girl

[Urlan]

I think its still a shame that it was returned to a mod while just giving it the functional range it had before would have been the ideal step; but acknowledging mistakes and coming to compromise shows maturity in design. I did not see anything akin to death threats on any of the threads about this subject or other warframe subjects, but I am glad this did not come up then in the threads this update then.