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[DE]Megan

The Vacuum Within: Hotfix #2

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Hmm. one side having it a passive was easier on modding, but let's be honest sentinels don't have that much modding, it was mostly just what utilities to bring.

 

All in all. this is great. The vacuum of 12m has been that way for atleast as long as i played. it has been ingrained into the game so much that it is close to impossible to nerf that. it is much like how multishot was considered for nerfing as every build always had a multishot. That would have disrupted the game too much and vacuum is the same deal. It was disruptive coming over as if players deserved to be punished for constantly using Carrier rather then a agreeable compromise.

I'm sure we can expect some tweaking as this goes, but this is a very good step. TY for listening to the community.

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Thank you Dev's for this RED text, you listened and majority speaks it true <3 <3 ...thankx for current fixes too ;)

wwoN7z6.jpg

Edited by Bladereap3r

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3 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

My partner joked that the moment I finished this explanation, that it would be updated to revert it.

She laughed, I laughed, the literal moment I completed it and was going to hit post the red text appeared.

But I made it, the transparent renders took longer than I liked (which is why it took so long), so I'll be posting it in a spoiler.

Here is the math as to why 6M radius Vacuum was such a bad idea:

  Hide contents

 

And now the Math:

With the original 12 Mr (24 Md) Vacuum sphere we have:
At ground intersection: 11.78 Mr (23.56 Md)
Area of ground intersection: 435.95 Mr2
Overall Volume of sphere: 7,238.23 Mr3

And with the new 6 Mr (12 Md) Vacuum sphere it is:
At ground intersection: 5.54 Mr (11.08 Md)
Area of ground intersection: 96.47 Mr2
Overall Volume of sphere: 904.78 Mr3


So from 12 Mr Vacuum to 6 Mr Vacuum we have:
A 12 M (6+6 M), or 50% reduction of linear (razor line, widest point edge-to-edge) range.
A 12.48 M (6.24+6.24 M), or 53% reduction of linear (razor line, widest point edge-to-edge) range at ground intersection.
A 339.48 Mr2, or 78% reduction of ground-pickup volume.
A 6,333.45 Mr3, or 88% reduction of overall effective range.

Exq0oe.png

LSGYSC.png

NqAZ38.png

 

As a reasonable alternative, you could look at a 10 Mr (20 Md) Vacuum sphere which gives us the numbers of:
At ground intersection: 9.73 Mr (19.46 Md)
Area of ground intersection: 297.42 Mr2
Overall Volume of sphere: 4,188.79 Mr3

From 12 Mr Vacuum to 10 Mr Vacuum we would get:
A 4 M (2+2 M), or 17% reduction of linear (razor line, widest point edge-to-edge) range.
A 4.1 M (2.05+2.05 M), or 18% reduction of linear (razor line, widest point edge-to-edge) range at ground intersection.
A 138.53 Mr2, or 32% reduction of ground-pickup volume.
A 3,049.44 Mr3, or 42% reduction of overall effective range.

7fzwLF.png

 

  Reveal hidden contents

M = Meters

Mr = Meter radius

Md = Meter Diameter

Mr2 = Meters radius Squared

Mr3 = Meters radius Cubed

 

This means that clearing a room will take 2-3 times longer.

iUCNDU.png[/sp

 

Glad it got reverted

 

If only frost globes could be this shiny :p

  • Upvote 2

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Thank you so much for working on this and creating a better way to work around the entire issue with vacuum. The team has been completely right in thinking that it's not really fair on other combat-focused sentinels to have a completely convenience-based sentinel to have 85-90% of the total sentinel use. I personally was happy about the previous change with the passive and any death threats about the change prior to this one, if any, are entirely pathetic. However, I think that this is an exceptional change that has been made to the carrier and the Vacuum mod in general. Thank you so much to each member of the DE staff who had worked to improve the sentinels! Now to use each and every other of the previously neglected sentinels, heheh! :D

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5 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

My partner joked that the moment I finished this explanation, that it would be updated to revert it.

She laughed, I laughed, the literal moment I completed it and was going to hit post the red text appeared.

But I made it, the transparent renders took longer than I liked (which is why it took so long), so I'll be posting it in a spoiler.

Here is the math as to why 6M radius Vacuum was such a bad idea:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

And now the Math:

With the original 12 Mr (24 Md) Vacuum sphere we have:
At ground intersection: 11.78 Mr (23.56 Md)
Area of ground intersection: 435.95 Mr2
Overall Volume of sphere: 7,238.23 Mr3

And with the new 6 Mr (12 Md) Vacuum sphere it is:
At ground intersection: 5.54 Mr (11.08 Md)
Area of ground intersection: 96.47 Mr2
Overall Volume of sphere: 904.78 Mr3


So from 12 Mr Vacuum to 6 Mr Vacuum we have:
A 12 M (6+6 M), or 50% reduction of linear (razor line, widest point edge-to-edge) range.
A 12.48 M (6.24+6.24 M), or 53% reduction of linear (razor line, widest point edge-to-edge) range at ground intersection.
A 339.48 Mr2, or 78% reduction of ground-pickup volume.
A 6,333.45 Mr3, or 88% reduction of overall effective range.

Exq0oe.png

LSGYSC.png

NqAZ38.png

 

As a reasonable alternative, you could look at a 10 Mr (20 Md) Vacuum sphere which gives us the numbers of:
At ground intersection: 9.73 Mr (19.46 Md)
Area of ground intersection: 297.42 Mr2
Overall Volume of sphere: 4,188.79 Mr3

From 12 Mr Vacuum to 10 Mr Vacuum we would get:
A 4 M (2+2 M), or 17% reduction of linear (razor line, widest point edge-to-edge) range.
A 4.1 M (2.05+2.05 M), or 18% reduction of linear (razor line, widest point edge-to-edge) range at ground intersection.
A 138.53 Mr2, or 32% reduction of ground-pickup volume.
A 3,049.44 Mr3, or 42% reduction of overall effective range.

7fzwLF.png

 

  Reveal hidden contents

M = Meters

Mr = Meter radius

Md = Meter Diameter

Mr2 = Meters radius Squared

Mr3 = Meters radius Cubed

 

This means that clearing a room will take 2-3 times longer.

iUCNDU.png[/sp

 

Glad it got reverted

 

Nice presentation for the old/new Vacuum comparisons! Appreciate it.

  • Upvote 1

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Still no fix for... uh...

No! Not gonna do it! YOU FIXED THE THING AND NOW I AM HAPPY FOREVER!

I have no complaints. I'm gonna go buy some plat in celebration. This is truly a momentous day.

  • Upvote 3

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i was freaking out so hard for the last 3 hours, i thought DE lost their ways, i thought they weren't listening anymore.

but i'm so happy to see they did listen after all. this is perfect now, you nailed it. 12m. just perfect. <3 don't touch it anymore. x'd

as a visually impaired player with perception problems, vacuum is something i HAD to rely on to overcome my faults, it let me focus all my limited perception on the enemies and the tileset [and i still mess up a lot often, but at least, there is one less thing to worry about and focus on the fun, with vacuum].

so thank you. :' 3 that's all.

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Thats a great reaction time, didnt expect that. A genuine and heartfelt thank you & well done from me.

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Great change.

Any chance of the Looter mod getting some attention too? The delay is far too long right now, so it will only trigger on crates that I am standing next to while doing something else. The time to clear a cluster of 6 crates would be unreasonable.

 

I had been farming the pieces for Carrier Prime for awhile, then maxing my synthesis scanner targets every day until I had enough for Looter - only to find that the mod is very seldom useful. If I had known how slow it was I would have gone with Detect Vulnerability instead.

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Personally, I'm confused about this change. The passive seemed fine and the 6 meter radius didn't seem to impact it all too much, at least from what I got to experience. Now we have to, essentially, reserve a mod slot and sacrifice a better mod (or an attack precept, which some players don't think is all that necessary) in order to use this mod. Obviously, we don't NEED to use it but, I just don't understand why that choice needed to be given in the first place. It was a harmless and ok passive imo. Personally, I'm not even going to bother with this mod, just wanted to get some clarification.

  • Upvote 2

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Very good move thank you for quick response :)

If there was a Hotfix #3 with some vacuuming consideration for Kavats, Kubrows and Archwing then I'm confident there would be further appreciation from player community.

We love our cats and dogs too.

Good job on this DE.

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Tnak you DE.

I neve meant that you make a bad job anyway.

 

But...yea the big "b" word.

To change the Vacuum "style" was not a bad idea in his roots, but ( yea again "but") i cant never believe that you not await a sh.t Storm for decreasing the radius of the Vaccum.

So...we maybe never able to read your mind, but it will help "if" you tend the contact with the gamers more like at the beginning of WF in the past.

I wish you a good nigt and sleep well.

 

A fan from the first hour :)

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Whenever the update first came out, I wanted to get the pack with djinn, but for the first few minutes it wasn't out, so I got the armour + weapon skin and the djinn skin, but of course, 10 minutes later a pack with all of it, including the sentinel, came out, so here I am having basically bought the pack twice, oh well, my bad. 

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So since my original Vacuum got automatically replaced with Ammo Case, I have now to upgrade Vacuum a second time to max Rank? 

Why do I have to pay twice for something I already upgraded, because of your Vacuum mumbo jumbo?

Edited by TheEternalStar
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1 mod slot less for sentinels that are already killed instantly in higher level missions. This is just a lazy solution.

Something like an aura slot for sentinels would be nice. Or just add the vacuum effect as a passive to Warframes instead please...

Edited by Rurabomber
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Thanks DE and oh boy, death threats, cmon guys that's going too far. We're all gonna die sometime, why trying to make it shorter for someone else? not cool m8, not cool

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Just now, Lucex said:

Your random question is a good one. I'm pretty pleased right now, but that is something I asked myself now a pretty long time. Sentinels and pets both need a reactor to enhance them like our Warframes does. Would be wise to add them an Aura slot. But atm that isn't sooo important. There are more important things they have to fix and add first (like the War within :D)

As somebody who has the mods: Looter(carrier), Detect Vulnerability(Helios), Enhanced Vitality, Redirection and Metal fiber All Maxed. I have run into a unique problem...I have no space for vacuum now!! When it was a passive All sentinels were on equal footing and I saw people running with sentinels base on its role. But now i'm in my own Sentinel Dilemma, and the only dilemma ever liked was the Gradivus Dilemma.

TLDR: HELP

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22 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

All current Sentinel owners will receive this Mod instantly, as well as retroactively with every Sentinel crafted or purchased- much like other default Precepts.

Just wanted to confirm that this means you get 1 mod for every Sentinel you ever crafted or purchased?

I only received 6 but as I have all Sentinels mastered was expecting 9.

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Well and i would love to see the vacum on frames it could still have radius about 6 max 8m but we could use any sent or pet without worring about drop pickups.

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Back to square 1 since carrier prime is still the only sentinel that doesn't die instantly on high level content. Was vacuum as a warframe passive too much to ask for without the irrational range nerf?

Call it lazy, call it dumb, but I think people wanted it this way in order to use any companion while still being able to pick up their drops without having to literally go out of their way every time they weren't standing right on an item. Pet's not being off the table is good as long as their vacuum applies to the frame and not the pet specifically. But really this should just be a warframe passive (without the dumb range nerf), there's no reason to be overly complicated when the right move is painfully simple.

Edited by Flowen231
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