Bladestorm rework feedback

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

From Dev Stream #81:

"There has been a lot of discussion surrounding this rework, but no real answers. Well, Ash fans, we have some info for you:
In order to make Bladestorm more interactive, but keep the same feel behind the animation, we’re planning on making the following changes:

• You will now Mark the enemies that will be attacked.
• Ash will attack each Marked enemy only once, but multitaged enemies will also be taken care of by your shadows.
• Holding 4 will allow you to Mark enemies, and energy will be consumed for each Mark (instead of a toggled drain).
• A damage buff might also be included to offset the LOS nerf."

Since we are still all wondering about this Ash "rework" This hands down is the best Ash rework ive seen yet: https://m.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4vf6ib/ash_rework/, have to give credit. The devs should def check this out. Input is appreciated here.

Thanks for you time .

[Hixlysss]

Just now, Nexecute said:

He needs a rework?

Yes. If you need to be told why...you haven't been paying attention to the forums.

[Darkwave1098]

Just now, Nexecute said:

I mean I know people don't like Blade Storm but does that call for a full rework of his kit?

...or am I an idiot who's misunderstood everything? .-.

None if his abilities directly synergize with each other. That and Bladestorm is boring as hell.

[Hixlysss]

Just now, Nexecute said:

I mean I know people don't like Blade Storm but does that call for a full rework of his kit?

...or am I an idiot who's misunderstood everything? .-.

The devs, if they are smart, won't just touch his bladestorm, but they will work on all his powers so they compliment one another. Much like what they did with volt.

[heskaroid]

Yeah rework one ability, what about his other 3? No! They should be left alone! Ash will become a weak bucket of infestation and bolts but who cares?
I am highly against DE reworking Ash's ult and not his other abilities, they need to be tweaked heavily.

Edited September 18, 2016 by heskaroid

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

 

Teleport is a manual BS, Smoke screen is awful and contradicts the other abilities mods, Teleport is unnecessary because BS, shuriken is ok but serves no purpose becase BS. 

https://m.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4vf6ib/ash_rework/

The reddit link blade storm rework bumps me up for a awesome ash, solo or team frame!

Edited September 18, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Renathy]

What are you trying to point out in the Reddit post exactly?

[CCamp88]

Considering the whole game started as "space ninja" sorta ish, Ash is truly about the most fitting with his current kit. I don't see how they do not syngerize. But yes, 4 is a bore

Edited September 18, 2016 by CCamp88

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

The ash rework towrards the bottom of the reddit page 

Edited September 19, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, JRMC said:

What are you trying to point out in the Reddit post exactly?

The ash rework at the bottom of the reddit page, see link,

[Nazrethim]

It's, very lacking in details. Compare that to this:

Spoiler

 

or this:

Spoiler

 

 

If you know the author of that recomend him/her to post on the Forums and expand it a bit more.

[Renathy]

9 hours ago, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

The ash rework at the bottom of the reddit page, see link,

Do you mean this suggestion?

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

5 hours ago, JRMC said:

Do you mean this suggestion?

YES! thank u

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

13 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

It's, very lacking in details. Compare that to this:

  Hide contents

 

or this:

  Hide contents

 

 

If you know the author of that recomend him/her to post on the Forums and expand it a bit more.

Thats the issue, i dont know the author. I would ask for details if i did. 

[Kefka]

18 hours ago, Nexecute said:

I mean I know people don't like Blade Storm but does that call for a full rework of his kit?

...or am I an idiot who's misunderstood everything? .-.

you're just missing the fact that the majority of ppl who use these forums are nerf happy scrubs who hate anything good and effective and are determined to ruin the game for everyone else... cry some more you noobs, you know who you are!

[LAWD]

I like it. That's if I am looking at the right one, a 4th ability that is a buff for the other abilities. It's just like the way current bladestorm is direct upgrade of teleport w/ that augment, but now for the other abilities, totally makes sense!

[Thaumatos]

On 9/19/2016 at 1:48 PM, HiroHideki said:

you're just missing the fact that the majority of ppl who use these forums are nerf happy scrubs who hate anything good and effective and are determined to ruin the game for everyone else... cry some more you noobs, you know who you are!

Yeah that's it....everyone's a nerf-happy scrub who wants to get rid of your playstyle.

Someone eject this nublet.  

 

21 posts in to his account and he's insulting everyone who disagrees with him.  Yeah we totally need more of this! /sarcasm

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, LAWD said:

I like it. That's if I am looking at the right one, a 4th ability that is a buff for the other abilities. It's just like the way current bladestorm is direct upgrade of teleport w/ that augment, but now for the other abilities, totally makes sense!

It isn't really a good rework. It doesn't really solve any of the other issues Ash has. Let me dissect this suggestion

 

Rework Suggestion

1) Shuriken: it should have a chance to Crit. That would be nice.

Not bad, but doesn't really add anything to the ability.

2) Smoke Screen: a blind instead of a stunt would be better.

It's what we have in Conclave with the Augment and it s*cks like you wouldn't know. Also doesn't make any mechanical change to SS, so it keeps being the same sh*t we have, a Loki's invisibility knock-off instead of an actual smoke screen.

3) Teleport: it should naturally do what it's band-aid of an Augment mod does... nuff said.

Very unimaginative, it doesn't solve the actual issues of teleport, just adds the issues Fatal Teleport has, namely that it works half the time and doesn't award combo counter on the finisher.

4) Kinjutsu/ Forbidden Path: Ash shrouds himself in darkness, intensifying and adding effects to his already deadly abilities. Ash gains a speed and damage mitigation buff for the duration.

Great! Turning one of the last reliable crowd-clearing abilities into a buff that can't kill sh*t on it's own! At least it's duration based.

• this would be a channeled ability, consuming energy over time, and would have a casting cost of 25.

Or maybe not. Channeled abilities are boring as f*ck and encourage people to go with Fleeting Expertise, you know, the problem CURRENT bladespam ash has.

• his first three abilities now cost 50 energy to cast while in this form.

50 energy per cast? Good thing Ash Prime has 150 base maximum energy! I think I can totally go without Fleeting F*cking Expertise or Primed Flow!

• Forbidden Shuriken: instead of a single target it now damages all enemies in a cone with increased ranged and lethality.

This is confusing. How does it work? saturating the cone with a barrage of Shuriken (creating lag spikes and FPS drop on the whole squad) ? "increased range" what does this do? more auto-track range? because as far as I know a non-tracking Shuriken doesn't have range, just keeps going until it hits something.

• Forbidden Smoke Screen: casts an AoE of smoke that provides invisibility not just to yourself but also allies within, while blinding entering foes.

So.. Smoke Shadow? Not only is this unimaginative it also conflicts with the Augment, and it's still the same sh*t we have already, there's not a single mechanical change.

• Forbidden Teleport: Ash teleports to the target's location and back; leaving behind a quickly shrinking AoE where copies of himself attack all enemies within.

Yeah, better remove mindless bladestorm spam with mindless teleport spam. Also, it makes Fleeting Expertise mandatory. Did the author actually imagined how to play this WITHOUT Corrupted/Primed Mods, as actual ability balancing is done?

 

 

Note: Basically, minor tweeks to his first three abilities and replace his 4th with magical space steroids; changing the way the rest of his kit works (less 'Press 4 to Win, and more of 4, then 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, wash, rise, repeat... problem solved!)

Yeah, good job making a very very sh*tty rework that doesn't really solve anything. It's just a straight nerf disguised as a rework. And not even a meaningful nerf, as it encourages the same Fleeting Spam current Bladestorm suffers.

Personally, I hate Ash...

That line is actually before the rework, but decided to copy at the end because it clearly explains the sh*tty ideas suggested. I would give him/her points for adding how this abilities are supposed to work in Conclave, where Ash needs massive buffs or a complete overhaul because 3 of his abilities are useless, but alas he/she didn't mention jack about Conclave.

Best rework? Please, go read some real fully developed reworks, not an isolated rework-comment on reddit.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Nazrethim

[LAWD]

Well I didn't think of it more to come to that conclusion. I think k I get jt now, the outcome of the ability should stay regardless of rework idea?

 Well that's where you think of where to put your trust in this matter, not everyone has the answer

 

What Id love if it were just changed to shadow clone fire-flick teleportation, rasengan barrage ninjutsu.

[Nazrethim]

43 minutes ago, LAWD said:

Well I didn't think of it more to come to that conclusion. I think k I get jt now, the outcome of the ability should stay regardless of rework idea?

 Well that's where you think of where to put your trust in this matter, not everyone has the answer

 

What Id love if it were just changed to shadow clone fire-flick teleportation, rasengan barrage ninjutsu.

Oh, btw, that last sentence was not for you, was for OP, I should have specified. Yeah, the rework must happen, but the outcome must be the same, Ash is an assassin, so his ultimate should remain a killing move, not a buff. Stance ultimate, Rasengan, Storms of shuriken, whatever as long as it makes sense, kills, it's interactive.

Actually there are multiple answers. Rework suggestions go from bad (like this one) to reasonable (like my suggestion a few comments above) to very good (Asj conglomerated rework,  also linked, made by a fellow).

Point is, DE should listen to actual Ash players, not people who hate it or that think ash is just bladestorm.

[LAWD]

54 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Point is, DE should listen to actual Ash players, not people who hate it or that think ash is just bladestorm.

Ya see that DE....roll the dice

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

On 9/25/2016 at 9:20 AM, Nazrethim said:

It isn't really a good rework. It doesn't really solve any of the other issues Ash has. Let me dissect this suggestion

 

Rework Suggestion

1) Shuriken: it should have a chance to Crit. That would be nice.

Not bad, but doesn't really add anything to the ability.

2) Smoke Screen: a blind instead of a stunt would be better.

It's what we have in Conclave with the Augment and it s*cks like you wouldn't know. Also doesn't make any mechanical change to SS, so it keeps being the same sh*t we have, a Loki's invisibility knock-off instead of an actual smoke screen.

3) Teleport: it should naturally do what it's band-aid of an Augment mod does... nuff said.

Very unimaginative, it doesn't solve the actual issues of teleport, just adds the issues Fatal Teleport has, namely that it works half the time and doesn't award combo counter on the finisher.

4) Kinjutsu/ Forbidden Path: Ash shrouds himself in darkness, intensifying and adding effects to his already deadly abilities. Ash gains a speed and damage mitigation buff for the duration.

Great! Turning one of the last reliable crowd-clearing abilities into a buff that can't kill sh*t on it's own! At least it's duration based.

• this would be a channeled ability, consuming energy over time, and would have a casting cost of 25.

Or maybe not. Channeled abilities are boring as f*ck and encourage people to go with Fleeting Expertise, you know, the problem CURRENT bladespam ash has.

• his first three abilities now cost 50 energy to cast while in this form.

50 energy per cast? Good thing Ash Prime has 150 base maximum energy! I think I can totally go without Fleeting F*cking Expertise or Primed Flow!

• Forbidden Shuriken: instead of a single target it now damages all enemies in a cone with increased ranged and lethality.

This is confusing. How does it work? saturating the cone with a barrage of Shuriken (creating lag spikes and FPS drop on the whole squad) ? "increased range" what does this do? more auto-track range? because as far as I know a non-tracking Shuriken doesn't have range, just keeps going until it hits something.

• Forbidden Smoke Screen: casts an AoE of smoke that provides invisibility not just to yourself but also allies within, while blinding entering foes.

So.. Smoke Shadow? Not only is this unimaginative it also conflicts with the Augment, and it's still the same sh*t we have already, there's not a single mechanical change.

• Forbidden Teleport: Ash teleports to the target's location and back; leaving behind a quickly shrinking AoE where copies of himself attack all enemies within.

Yeah, better remove mindless bladestorm spam with mindless teleport spam. Also, it makes Fleeting Expertise mandatory. Did the author actually imagined how to play this WITHOUT Corrupted/Primed Mods, as actual ability balancing is done?

 

 

Note: Basically, minor tweeks to his first three abilities and replace his 4th with magical space steroids; changing the way the rest of his kit works (less 'Press 4 to Win, and more of 4, then 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, wash, rise, repeat... problem solved!)

Yeah, good job making a very very sh*tty rework that doesn't really solve anything. It's just a straight nerf disguised as a rework. And not even a meaningful nerf, as it encourages the same Fleeting Spam current Bladestorm suffers.

Personally, I hate Ash...

That line is actually before the rework, but decided to copy at the end because it clearly explains the sh*tty ideas suggested. I would give him/her points for adding how this abilities are supposed to work in Conclave, where Ash needs massive buffs or a complete overhaul because 3 of his abilities are useless, but alas he/she didn't mention jack about Conclave.

Best rework? Please, go read some real fully developed reworks, not an isolated rework-comment on reddit.

I enjoy playing with Ash, he's one of my top 5 but..I hate blade storm and smoke screen. I like your rework, i like this rework. I dont really have a "main" frame  per say , as it depends on mission type and what my other friends are using. I see a win win either way..in my opinion. 

[Nazrethim]

17 hours ago, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

I enjoy playing with Ash, he's one of my top 5 but..I hate blade storm and smoke screen. I like your rework, i like this rework. I dont really have a "main" frame  per say , as it depends on mission type and what my other friends are using. I see a win win either way..in my opinion. 

The purpose of a rework is to solve the issues with a given warframe, sentinel or weapon without it being a straight buff or a straight nerf. I was pointing out that this particular rework is a convoluted nerf to BS and doesn't really solve ANY of the issues the frame has in the first place, nor alters the build meta, and neither adresses Conclave balancing. So it's either very incomplete or very bad, and since the author isn't available to work on it then it's more inclined to the latter.

[VergilDT]

On 9/18/2016 at 6:13 PM, Nexecute said:

He needs a rework?

exactly, this "rework" is going to end up being a joke. I would bet real money on it. People have *@##$ed enough about his extreme usefulness in all levels of play and great kit that DE is reworking(read: ruining) him. The only change that he needs post melee 2.0 to present is to get rid of that buff his targets get to outside sources once targeted, Remove or greatly reduce that and I guarantee people's issues with Ash will disappear. Changing the way his ult works will kill the character, although one post on here has suggested some interesting shuriken augments.

[VergilDT]

On 9/18/2016 at 6:23 PM, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

 

Teleport is a manual BS, Smoke screen is awful and contradicts the other abilities mods, Teleport is unnecessary because BS, shuriken is ok but serves no purpose becase BS. 

https://m.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4vf6ib/ash_rework/

The reddit link blade storm rework bumps me up for a awesome ash, solo or team frame!

Teleport is a single target ability, paired with Fatal Teleport augment can deal half a million damage with a good melee weapon. Smoke screen build gives him options for stealth play and the augment can be used to bail allies out of a bad spot by spreading the invis to them. Shuriken is situational but can be built with the augment for tackling single hard to kill targets(good for solo play), I admit this one is a bit too situational but I've seen some good suggested augments that would make it better with no need to rework the whole kit. A frames abilities don't all need to work together as long as they give options for different builds.