'Hat-Trick' the Limbo rework that works!

[main_antagonist]

The core of this rework is keeping his current abilities the same and improving upon them based around his Hat. The reason I say that this concept works is because the changes are optional you can choose to play Limbo exactly the same as he currently is or synergize his abilities together to gain new effects! Presto improved Limbo that goes with his whole hat aesthetic 'magician' theme thing he has going on.

(How the hat works by making 'Rift Surge' his bread and butter.) see below;

Rift Surge -  Drops the Hat (or suspends it in the air upon cast) You still have your bonus weapon damage from casting the ability, but if you recast the ability before the duration finishes you will be teleported to where the hat was located when it was dropped. If the duration expires without recasting to teleport back to your hat ... then the hat teleports to you casting a blind within a 12m radius of Limbo.

This will synergize with his other abilities but before I get into that ... some people might not like the look of Limbo without a hat and for that purpose the hat will have a invisible ghosting image left behind as you run around. Obviously when the hat is placed back on your head the ghosting effect would go away.

Cataclysm - Casting Cataclysm on the hat will work more or less the same but instead of letting enemies walk in and out of the radius they are locked inside as a 'Rift prison' pushing them inwards as it shrinks.

Rift Walk - Casting without a hat causes a blind or blast proc ... (Up to DE which one they would implement.)
(Option -  B) ... Alternatively it would increase his passive energy regeneration without his hat protecting him from the effects of the Rift think of it as an 'energy gating device' without the hat he absorbs more energy.

Banish - Casting Banish on your hat causes a 12m radiation proc.

 

Feel free to leave constructive criticism in comments below, I hope people like this idea! Thanks for reading! @[DE]Steve Hi steve not sure what Scott's tag is please pass this onto him and see what he thinks of my concept thanks! :)

[AurumandArgentum]

As a Limbo main, I like this, it's pretty nice and it makes rift surge less of a fire and forget.

[main_antagonist]

6 hours ago, AurumandArgentum said:

As a Limbo main, I like this, it's pretty nice and it makes rift surge less of a fire and forget.

Thanks man I agree I find it strange that he has all this visual emphasis on his hat when he was designed but all he does it really lift his hat off his head /  tip his hat and that's all there is to it. Thinking about it and how the devs keep talking about reworking him but not sure what to do and how the community is divided it eventually hit me of a way to rework him without upsetting the people who don't want him changed while also changing him for the better for those who are asking for it :)

[PsiWarp]

Hataclysm :P

But you're right, the hat should be an integral part of his persona and powers.

[(PSN)BossNotACapo]

As a Limbo player I would love to see this.  And please if it drops in the rift let us pick it up....

[Buzkyl]

I really like the rework especially the changes on Rift surge and cataclysm synergizing with his new Hat mechanic however rift surge and banish are still too close to not cosnider merging to a new skill. Ofcourse the hat effects (AoE rad proc and blast/blind) are neat after effects but they don't solve the problem of both serve the same purpose, to bring things into the rift.
 Wonderful rework but the redundacy still remains, Limbo still has 3 skills all of which serve to drag him or enemies into the rift. I still want some of these suggestion to make it ingame especially Rift surge and cataclysm.

[main_antagonist]

If anybody has suggestions feel free to add them, if I like the suggestion I might edit my original post :)

[Ditto132]

Interesting use of hat :D Even if it is not part of rework, it could potentially be a few interesting augments.

I like the idea of "Rift Prison", it would open up a new way of playing, gathering mobs into the Rift.
Since the Cataclysm is shrinking and they can only enter into the Rift, it works well with Rift Torrent and Cataclysmic Continuum.

I might add that the dropped hat could also drain/redirect enemies energy within certain radius and stored/channelled into the hat for future use.
The dropped hat could also provide an aura of energy regen for both allies and Limbo.

[main_antagonist]

On 14/10/2016 at 9:27 PM, Ditto132 said:

I might add that the dropped hat could also drain/redirect enemies energy within certain radius and stored/channelled into the hat for future use.
The dropped hat could also provide an aura of energy regen for both allies and Limbo.

That's a pretty neat idea :D

[o.0-]

I like the idea of using the Hat to expand Limbo's capabilities.

But I'd still like to see Limbo be more the Master of the Rift, where the Rift is simply the Void entering the Material plane (so basically like controllable Void Fissures and not connected to Neural Sentries. Limbo essentially takes the place of the Neural Sentry in manipulating the Rift) and not be a place where Limbo can go walk back and forth to. Also still feel that Rift Surge and the passive should merge with Rift Walk.

The reason I am taking this direction is that it was said the first Limbo was torn apart trying to Rift Walk in the first place; which was too big a jump into that the dimension the way Limbo was trying to manipulate the Rift, since that dimension was actually the Void itself and not a different Rift plane. The first Limbo wanted to prove the Theorem to be true, but it was torn apart and scattered afterall.

So from a Lore perspective, it can still be plausible that the proof Ordis was reading throughout the Limbo Theorem Quest had novel calculations that were simply for manipulating the Void in novel ways on the Material plane (and maybe was not accounting for the effect Limbo's Hat had on all of that) and not another dimension or plane of existence; something Ordis might have been able to realize once he read the entire proof as hinted in the quest dialogue, since he is in charge of the Orbiter and Landing Craft and uses the Void to conceal the Orbiter.

And now with Void Fissures able to break through, maybe that failed Rift Walk could have been the beginning of more fractures with the Void that then got worse with the return of the Moon. Since there is some leeway in placing when the walk happened; my guess it had to have been done before the Moon disappears.

Not to mention the type of control shown by the current Limbo is different from the paradigm of other Warframes, where the general idea is that Warframes are applying Void Energy to power their unique abilities; and so looking at Limbo currently, it has two capabilities broken down into three abilities and a third, which is a buff in a specific state for one of the abilities.

So I'd like to explore the possibility of updating the Rift, how it relates to Limbo and giving Limbo a new ability, while combining two existing abilities together.

Have more in the spoiler, that could be added to your new synergies, with Limbo's:

Spoiler

Something that has often bugged me is that in the lore descriptions from the Limbo Theorem quest, it is made clear how the first Limbo was torn apart in its final Rift Walk.

So I got to thinking, what if our Limbo never actually Rift Walks, crossing into a Rift 'Plane', and simply is manipulating the energies of the Void? So what Limbo is doing is manipulating the Void in ways that nothing else ever can, to create Rifts in the Material Plane.

The Rift: So what the Rift should be is the Void colliding with the Material Plane and causing chaotic energies that Limbo can then manipulate as a Master of the Rift.

• So now there is no entering or exiting a Rift Plane.
• Limbo is using Void energy and manipulating how it affects the Material plane, causing Rifts.
• Now that Limbo never leaves the Material plane, there can be tweaks to his kit so he can better synergize and keep his strengths, while losing some weaknesses.

Ability #1: At the drop of a Hat ( New Ability )

• Limbo creates a tear on the Material Plane, leaving his Hat to hold the tear open.
• Able to teleport as setup in the OP
• Enemies who fire through the tear have their damage absorbed with a percentage that can be reflected back on them.
• Allies who fire through it, have a boost to damage.
• Power Range and Strength stack to increase range.
• Power Duration and Efficiency stack to increase Duration.

Ability #2: Surge ( Banish )

• Continues to work as it did as a first ability, except that carried items are not knocked out of players' hand.
• Cast on 1st ability causes a radial proc.
• The Ability creates a cloak on enemies, their output (Damage and other effects) enters the Void, where a percent of damage can be reflected to enemies.
• On Allies any damage input is diverted to the Void and they gain boosts to energy regen.
• Haven Augment still applies to this ability.
• Power Range and Strength stack to increase range
• Power Duration and Efficiency stack to increase Duration.

Ability #3: Cloak ( Rift Walk, Rift Surge and old passive combined )

• Limbo stays on the material plane and creates a cloak to be away from the touch of enemies.
• Now incorporates current passive (Rift Efficiency), and former Rift Surge with Rift Surge Augment.
• So still gains boost to energy regen and protects Limbo.
• When targeting Enemies that have been cloaked by Surge, they can be damaged.
• Items in-hand stay with Limbo, which can drop on switching weapon and so on.

Ability #4: Cataclysm

• As a large breach of the Material plan and the Void, this Rift is Limbo at his best.
• If cast on 1st ability, enemies are trapped inside, as a prison.
• Mostly stays as it currently works and still uses current augment.
• Enemies entering the Cataclysm receive a stagger proc, and damage over time for as long as the enemies are in the Cataclysm.
• Enemy damage that enters the Cataclysm is diverted to the Void and can be reflected to the enemy. Enemy damage cannot exit the Cataclysm.
• Allied damage that enters (and/or is inside) the Cataclysm gains a damage boost.
• The initial size of the Cataclysm is based on both Power Strength and Range.
• Power Duration and Efficiency stack to increase Cataclysm's Duration.

Passive: Calculating - Gains an increase to Crit Chance and Crit Damage (actual values can be say 10% for each or whatever works best). The idea being that Limbo originally was supposed to be a savvy Mathematician and similar to John Nash, is able to see how to best defeat the next problem.

Hope these additions are viable to consider.

 

 

[main_antagonist]

Good to see people are receiving this well and some are putting their own spin on it :)

[(PSN)VaDeR81]

I like these ideas, except the radiation proc. I feel the rift should do finisher damage. It doesn't go with any element we have. I've had a similar rework all based around riftsurge. It should affect all his powers. Riftsurge also needs a puncture proc for the whole duration. Less damage to us in the rift. I need an unbanish button. Hold to unbanish all targets( good for accidents) banish five dudes then bring them back all on their butts ready to die.  

[main_antagonist]

On 21/10/2016 at 0:41 AM, (PS4)VaDeR81 said:

I like these ideas, except the radiation proc. I feel the rift should do finisher damage. It doesn't go with any element we have. I've had a similar rework all based around riftsurge. It should affect all his powers. Riftsurge also needs a puncture proc for the whole duration. Less damage to us in the rift. I need an unbanish button. Hold to unbanish all targets( good for accidents) banish five dudes then bring them back all on their butts ready to die.  

Being sent to another dimension would definitely cause some sort of radiation to be emitted, so casting it on the had would be letting a bunch of that energy and radiation spew out I don't think finisher damage would fit his theme.

[xXBarnowlXx]

I like the idea a lot. It makes Limbo a bit more damaging and bearable to play. Though he really needs some quality of life adjustments too. I agree to what @SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said about alies banished don't drop items in hand. And possibly if you are in the rift plane you are still able to pick materials up if they are in the rift plane also (so anything in the cataclysm bubble) and maybe increasing the casting animation of Banish and Rift Walk.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

I've been using Limbo for a while and he's not as bad as people say. He just plays differently from other warframes. He survives well because enemies can't touch him and his Rift Surge makes OP weapons even more OP. I find him awkward to use, though, as he doesn't have very good team synergy and I have to constantly rely on 2 separate buffs (Rift Walk and Rift Surge) with 2 separate times.

The only rework I really want to see on him is to make him more user friendly to use. There's no reason to have Rift Walk and Rift Surge be two separate abilities. I wish Rift Walk would already give you the damage multiplier once activated.

I mainly use Cataclysm as a targeted snipe nuke because of its size and range, dropping it immediately after it pops so as not to annoy other players. There's no incentive for other players to fight inside Cataclysm as they gain only energy regen as an advantage against other enemies in the rift. It would be nice if enemies received some kind of debuff while in the rift like increased damage received or reduced damage output that scales with Limbo's Power Strength.

I like the idea of a Rift Prison, though, keeping enemies trapped inside for a duration and especially if it prevents them from shooting outward while your squad mates shoots the enemies inside. This gives Limbo some form of crowd control somewhat same as but weaker to Vauban's Bastille.

[Taipolar]

I would like if they just left Limbo the way he his.

[Buzkyl]

4 hours ago, Taipolar said:

I would like if they just left Limbo the way he his.

That would be horrible.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

I had another idea for Limbo after reading someone's comments on how they use this warframe. They said they used Limbo to distract enemies while the other players do their thing. I think his Rift Walk and Rift Surge should be combined together as a single buff and his 3 ability is replaced with a new one.

This new ability, once activated will create a 20 meter AoE around Limbo and all enemies within the AoE, within the material plane or otherwise, will be forced to target and attack Limbo and ONLY Limbo. It sounds strange but if you're in the rift and you use this, it virtually grants invisibility to all your allies as no enemy can target them. It can also be used to protect cryo pods and excavators because enemies will be trying to attack the intangible Limbo instead of any objective. You can use it to lure infested away as your squad Tonkors them to death without fear of retaliation. Its the perfect defensive and crowd control ability fit for Limbo because he's a magician/entertainer themed warframe. A show man. Its like he's putting on a show for the enemies to draw the attention away from his squad.

Its range is affected by power range, its duration is affected by power duration and its toggelable as its technically a suicide move if you use it while in the material plane.

Edited November 17, 2016 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

This is certainly an interesting idea. I like it.

Although I don't think a blind effect works with his theme. Blast or radiation effects could be good though since there's already a basis for enemies being knocked down by the force of transitioning through phases, and you could arguably be pulling some radioactive energy through the other dimension when you tear enemies or yourself through it.

[Renovakunumaru]

On 10/8/2016 at 2:14 PM, main_antagonist said:

The core of this rework is keeping his current abilities the same and improving upon them

YES!!!!!!

This is what a rework is.

[main_antagonist]

On 18/11/2016 at 5:03 AM, Renovakunumaru said:

YES!!!!!!

This is what a rework is.

Cheers man :D

[RunningTree3]

 

On 10/9/2016 at 5:14 AM, main_antagonist said:

Rift Surge -  Drops the Hat (or suspends it in the air upon cast) You still have your bonus weapon damage from casting the ability, but if you recast the ability before the duration finishes you will be teleported to where the hat was located when it was dropped. If the duration expires without recasting to teleport back to your hat ... then the hat teleports to you casting a blind within a 12m radius of Limbo.

This will synergize with his other abilities but before I get into that ... some people might not like the look of Limbo without a hat and for that purpose the hat will have a invisible ghosting image left behind as you run around. Obviously when the hat is placed back on your head the ghosting effect would go away.

Cataclysm - Casting Cataclysm on the hat will work more or less the same but instead of letting enemies walk in and out of the radius they are locked inside as a 'Rift prison' pushing them inwards as it shrinks.

Rift Walk - Casting without a hat causes a blind or blast proc ... (Up to DE which one they would implement.)
(Option -  B) ... Alternatively it would increase his passive energy regeneration without his hat protecting him from the effects of the Rift think of it as an 'energy gating device' without the hat he absorbs more energy.

Banish - Casting Banish on your hat causes a 12m radiation proc.

Rift Surge could be made interesting this way if the location of casting, hat or not hat, had some effect: this teleporting idea is interesting. I would also be keen to see some sort of fissure that allies can use for rifting. Or perhaps the ability to place up to two Rift Surge fissures/hats at a time, and melee-striking one would teleport to the other?

Cataclysm should trap mobs. Yes and No. Would this mean mobs no longer can run into a Cataclysm? I would be keen to see the bubble simply have a 'push' effect, about the same strength as Magnetize, that would 'nudge' mobs inwards as it shrunk. It would trap mobs that stood their ground (ie, ranged attackers) but would be not strong enough to withstand one actively trying to run out of it.

Perhaps 'Banish' the hat/fissure to teleport back to it, instead of recasting Rift Surge? Thereby causing some sort of AoE due to Limbo displacing into the area? Not necessarily a fan of Rad procs though. An AoE Impact proc or Knockdown would keep in theme with original Banish and its current usefulness.

Also, and this is important: Can Banished allies gain a clone hat on their head? Everyone will now ask to be banished for the fashion.

 

[main_antagonist]

5 hours ago, RunningTree3 said:

 

Rift Surge could be made interesting this way if the location of casting, hat or not hat, had some effect: this teleporting idea is interesting. I would also be keen to see some sort of fissure that allies can use for rifting. Or perhaps the ability to place up to two Rift Surge fissures/hats at a time, and melee-striking one would teleport to the other?

Cataclysm should trap mobs. Yes and No. Would this mean mobs no longer can run into a Cataclysm? I would be keen to see the bubble simply have a 'push' effect, about the same strength as Magnetize, that would 'nudge' mobs inwards as it shrunk. It would trap mobs that stood their ground (ie, ranged attackers) but would be not strong enough to withstand one actively trying to run out of it.

Perhaps 'Banish' the hat/fissure to teleport back to it, instead of recasting Rift Surge? Thereby causing some sort of AoE due to Limbo displacing into the area? Not necessarily a fan of Rad procs though. An AoE Impact proc or Knockdown would keep in theme with original Banish and its current usefulness.

Also, and this is important: Can Banished allies gain a clone hat on their head? Everyone will now ask to be banished for the fashion.

 

Full support from from me that everyone gets a hat haha, I'd like the cataclysm to not let them back out but they can freely enter! :D

Hopefully if the idea gets implemented the devs would take a vote on what to do with the teleport if you should recast Rift surge for the teleport or Aim cast banish at the hat, the reason I wanted it on Rift surge because it wouldn't require you to aim at the hat directly, if the teleport was linked to banish you could wind up teleporting on accident at times if you miss your target, or banishing when you wish to teleport etc. I just figured it would be a more simple solution however I'm not fully opposed to it :) 

[Hi.Im.Limbo]

 So far, I kept reading your ideas on limbo's new and improving abilities, I keep returning to this post and I can already imagine the new abilities for limbo. Aw man, I can't stop reading your post over-and-over again. I love it! 

[LSG501]

Honestly I don't actually like the hat idea..

'Rift Prison' should be an augment not a full power. 

IMO all limbo really needs is to make his rift surge activate on all his abilities as standard and replace rift surge with something like a rift wave/pulse or radiating burst for crowd control or physical damage.   The only other changes involve being able to carry stuff like data packets when in the rift (he is holding it after all) and pickups being drawn into the void and picked up so we don't get the vacuum loot baloon blocking our view.